HG and BW reach an agreement (Link included)

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

I can honestly say, Delta was the first Macross series to disappoint me. It could have been so good, no, it should have. It had the potential,  but......

[Kyp Durron]

43 minutes ago, SkullLeaderVF-X said:

I can honestly say, Delta was the first Macross series to disappoint me. It could have been so good, no, it should have. It had the potential,  but......

[vladykins]

5 hours ago, tekering said:

There should be a "never" in there somewhere. 

In hindsight -- with a Japanese Blu-ray release to appreciate -- its faults may not seem too egregious, but remember all we had for years was the US Renditions dub on VHS... and Robotech had a much better cast by comparison. 

I actually have a soft spot for Macross II myself ; I'd rather watch the whole series again than suffer through a single episode of Macross 7 or Delta.  As poorly as those sequels were received, they were never so reviled as to be stricken from canon entirely.

I have a soft spot for Macross II as well.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

1 hour ago, vladykins said:

I have a soft spot for Macross II as well.

As do I.  Hell I even attempted to track down the ending version of Yakuso. Since it seems different from the album release. As well as the English version of Mou Ichido. Good times.

[DYRL VF-1S]

Eh I love all of Macross but yeah Delta and Macross II are my least fav. Macross II sits at the bottom because it basically is / should’ve been a Robotech installment haha as it basically branches off the rest of the franchise where everything else is at least somewhat connected in the same universe.

Edited April 17, 2021 by DYRL VF-1S

[M'Kyuun]

I think if Delta had come before Frontier, it would have been better received, as it was better, at least in terms of animation, than M7, but not nearly as good as Frontier with its better, well, everything. Frontier spoiled us; it's going to take another show like it or Plus to be satisfying to the majority of fans, I think, myself included.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

 

6 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I think if Delta had come before Frontier, it would have been better received, as it was better, at least in terms of animation, than M7, but not nearly as good as Frontier with its better, well, everything. Frontier spoiled us; it's going to take another show like it or Plus to be satisfying to the majority of fans, I think, myself included.

That and, even Delta's songs, were...eh. Yeah there were a few that were good, but not anywhere near as good as MF, let alone M7. I think I enjoyed MII's music more. Delta,  that one song, every time I hear it. I think of Toni Braxton.  And when I do hear Toni Braxton,  I think of Delta.

 

.....Also that Earth, Wind & Fire song. Same thing.

 

Unchain my Delta

Edited April 17, 2021 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[DYRL VF-1S]

55 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

I think if Delta had come before Frontier, it would have been better received, as it was better, at least in terms of animation, than M7, but not nearly as good as Frontier with its better, well, everything. Frontier spoiled us; it's going to take another show like it or Plus to be satisfying to the majority of fans, I think, myself included.

 

20 minutes ago, SkullLeaderVF-X said:

 

That and. Even Delta's songs, were...eh. yeah there were a few that were good, but not anywhere near as good as MF, let alone M7. I think I enjoyed MII's music more. Delta,  that one song, every time I hear it. I think of Toni Braxton.  And when I do hear Toni Braxton,  I think of Delta.

 

.....Also that Earth, Wind & Fire song. Same thing.

 

Unchain my Delta

Can’t disagree with either of you on that!!!

[M'Kyuun]

33 minutes ago, SkullLeaderVF-X said:

 

That and. Even Delta's songs, were...eh. yeah there were a few that were good, but not anywhere near as good as MF, let alone M7. I think I enjoyed MII's music more. Delta,  that one song, every time I hear it. I think of Toni Braxton.  And when I do hear Toni Braxton,  I think of Delta.

 

.....Also that Earth, Wind & Fire song. Same thing.

 

Unchain my Delta

Wow, talk about a straight ripoff- that melody is nigh the same as Toni's. TBH, Delta left so little impression on me, including the music, that I had no recollection of this song. I still like a number of songs from Frontier, especially Ranka's Aimo. The valk designs and the fact that this installment featured valk on valk fighting were the only takeaways worth mentioning, and about all I remember from the series. There was something about a girl band too, but pfft- Valkyries!

[Chronocidal]

28 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Wow, talk about a straight ripoff- that melody is nigh the same as Toni's. TBH, Delta left so little impression on me, including the music, that I had no recollection of this song. I still like a number of songs from Frontier, especially Ranka's Aimo. The valk designs and the fact that this installment featured valk on valk fighting were the only takeaways worth mentioning, and about all I remember from the series. There was something about a girl band too, but pfft- Valkyries!

I remember discussing the differences between the music in Frontier and Delta before, and what it basically boiled down to was that Delta's music was mass-produced idol pop that got thrown into a mecha anime because they wanted to promote said idol pop music.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The songs were by and large interchangeable so long as they fit the tone of the scene.

Comparing that to a soundtrack composed by Yoko Kanno, with several songs written on a scene-by-scene basis to fit the story, is a terribly unfair curbstomp of a competition.  Maybe it's a byproduct of the actual love triangle in the series being fought between two competing vocalists with distinct styles, or maybe it's the fact that a good chunk of their songs were essentially vocalized character development.  Delta never had that level of story/character/music integration.

I can't say it's even my favorite song in the whole Frontier franchise, but there's something very poignant about the fact that Sheryl wrote the lyrics to "Sayonara no Tsubasa¹" on the wall of a prison cell, in her own blood.  The songs in Frontier were as much a part of the characters as they were a part of the story, and to its detriment, Delta never managed to mimic that to any memorable extent.

While Macross 7 will always be goofy rock and roll giant robot anime to me, it says something that its music is still far more memorable than anything in Delta.  I think they did a disservice to the series by not giving the individual singers much of a chance to spotlight separate styles or talents, and it all just kind of blended together in a big pile of pop idol mush.  

_{1- I don't know for certain if it was that song, or something else, but that's what I've always assumed she was writing.}

 

[Kyp Durron]

Am I the only one that thinks Frontier was the best Macross outside of the original TV and DYRL version?

[camk4evr]

No. I think the last few posts were basicly people saying just that.^_^

[DYRL VF-1S]

25 minutes ago, Kyp Durron said:

Am I the only one that thinks Frontier was the best Macross outside of the original TV and DYRL version?

No you are not. I even like it better than SDFM. Only DYRL? tops it for me.

[danth]

Well, I'm in for Blu Rays of everything up to M7 at least. Maybe Frontier and Zero if they go on sale.

Not die-hard enough to sit through Delta though.

As for new shows, nah. I've given up on anime as a medium. The hand drawn stuff from the 80s and early 90's was fantastic. The new stuff where all the mechs are CGI? No thanks, I don't want to watch a video game. Even the actual character animation is very CGI heavy now which ruins if for me. They draw a character's face once and then vectorize it and manipulate the image to "animate" it. Fuuuuuck that. It looks like garbage, sorry not sorry.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

1 hour ago, Kyp Durron said:

Am I the only one that thinks Frontier was the best Macross outside of the original TV and DYRL version?

 

54 minutes ago, DYRL VF-1S said:

No you are not. I even like it better than SDFM. Only DYRL? tops it for me.

Same. I'll add Macross Plus to that too.

[Kyp Durron]

16 minutes ago, SkullLeaderVF-X said:

 

Same. I'll add Macross Plus to that too.

M+ is a very close second to Frontier, IMHO.

[Big s]

For me it’s og macross including dyrl, m+, and then frontier and then 2 is a far departure. Everything else gets the “what the heck was I watching and why can’t I stop” reaction.

 I really hope that something really unique happens with all this and we get a great show for a new generation that doesn’t have to rely so heavily on pop songs. A bit isn’t too bad, but relying on it is getting ridiculous 

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

35 minutes ago, Big s said:

 I really hope that something really unique happens with all this and we get a great show for a new generation that doesn’t have to rely so heavily on pop songs. A bit isn’t too bad, but relying on it is getting ridiculous 

Doctor Chiba disagrees with you. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[DYRL VF-1S]

2 hours ago, SkullLeaderVF-X said:

Doctor Chiba disagrees with you. 

But seriously, can we get into some rock n roll again? I'll even take new wave. Like the reincarnation of the Cure circa Disintegration so that they're so sad that whatever enemy of protoculture has like a depressing reaction and kills themselves off.

[Keith]

20 hours ago, tekering said:

There should be a "never" in there somewhere. 

In hindsight -- with a Japanese Blu-ray release to appreciate -- its faults may not seem too egregious, but remember all we had for years was the US Renditions dub on VHS... and Robotech had a much better cast by comparison. 

I actually have a soft spot for Macross II myself ; I'd rather watch the whole series again than suffer through a single episode of Macross 7 or Delta.  As poorly as those sequels were received, they were never so reviled as to be stricken from canon entirely.

I love that "poorly received" mythos that Macross sequels keep getting. While I haven't seen Delta nearly as many times as 7, every sequel (except II) has been quite popular.

[tekering]

32 minutes ago, Keith said:

While I haven't seen Delta nearly as many times as 7, every sequel (except II) has been quite popular.

This page consists almost entirely of posts that contradict your statement... 

[Seto Kaiba]

40 minutes ago, Keith said:

I love that "poorly received" mythos that Macross sequels keep getting. While I haven't seen Delta nearly as many times as 7, every sequel (except II) has been quite popular.

I'm amused that the "disowned" myth keeps going around WRT II... even after Kawamori himself publicly refuted it.  I guess some parts of MW's toxic history simply aren't going to die easily. 

Really, no Macross sequel has been poorly received overall.  II and Plus came the closest, being far better received outside Japan than in it.

Too many folks in here generalizing from themselves when talking about how Macross shows were received tho.

[Bolt]

..Yep..

Back on topic. I wonder what the first tangible results will be from this agreement..

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Back on topic. I wonder what the first tangible results will be from this agreement..

Safe bet... streaming licenses.

Harmony Gold's in bed with Funimation, which would make them landing on Funimation Now seem pretty likely.

[tekering]

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm amused that the "disowned" myth keeps going around WRT II... even after Kawamori himself publicly refuted it.  I guess some parts of MW's toxic history simply aren't going to die easily. 

Egan Loo's published works on the issue predate MacrossWorld...

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Really, no Macross sequel has been poorly received overall.

How are we quantifying said reception?  Television ratings?  Home video sales?  Merchandising?  Published reviews?  Online fandom?

It's really difficult to qualify such a statement, especially when Japanese are discouraged from expressing criticism (particularly in public).

[Seto Kaiba]

28 minutes ago, tekering said:

Egan Loo's published works on the issue predate MacrossWorld...

Yes, but he also doesn't say anywhere that it was disowned, disavowed, or "stricken from canon". 

Which, of course, it wasn't. 

It was merely an above average OVA that failed to live up to everyone's expectations that it'd set the world on fire.

Nevertheless, Big West never disowned it, disavowed it, struck it from the canon Macross doesn't have, or in any way attempted to hide it... and it'll no doubt be prominently featured alongside its younger siblings when Macross goes to streaming and home video outside Japan in the near future.

[Keith]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

This page consists almost entirely of posts that contradict your statement... 

So you believe a pocket (and that's being gemerous) of old men on the internet who complain about A LOT (that's an understatement) outstrips the merch, blue-ray, movie ticket, CD & toy sales that have followed each release (7, Frontier, Delta, and to a lessor extent II, Plus & Zero)? You think money would still be thrown into these productions if they weren't profitable? Plenty of unsuccessful anime series have had their episode count slashed mid production due to low ratings, Macross has never been in that boat (save for the original series before it aired). 7 hit 49 episodes, a movie (be it a short) & OVA. Frontier & Delta both have multiple movies (with new animation, not pure recaps like most Gundam follow ups), live concerts, etc

 You honestly think these thinga would happen without a large supportive fanbase? 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm amused that the "disowned" myth keeps going around WRT II... even after Kawamori himself publicly refuted it.  I guess some parts of MW's toxic history simply aren't going to die easily. 

Really, no Macross sequel has been poorly received overall.  II and Plus came the closest, being far better received outside Japan than in it.

Too many folks in here generalizing from themselves when talking about how Macross shows were received tho.

II Finished it's run, is still referenced by Bandai & Big West, but never hit on the popularity scale that most other Macross series & OVA's share. But I agree, there's way too much personal hate that is passed off as fact.

[davidwhangchoi]

So , i checked walmart today and didn't see any Macross products.

How long is this going to take to get Macross in stores?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, davidwhangchoi said:

So , i checked walmart today and didn't see any Macross products.

How long is this going to take to get Macross in stores?

The ink's barely dry on the deal... it was only signed back in March.  It's gonna take time for individual licensees and distributors to digest the big news, reach out to Big West for a better picture of the legal implications, and examine the market to see where the money is.  I'd expect Q4 2021 at the earliest.

[davidwhangchoi]

Just now, Seto Kaiba said:

The ink's barely dry on the deal... it was only signed back in March.  It's gonna take time for individual licensees and distributors to digest the big news, reach out to Big West for a better picture of the legal implications, and examine the market to see where the money is.  I'd expect Q4 2021 at the earliest.

hopefully in time for Christmas, Bandai Spirits will have limited items on the USA store. 

[Kyp Durron]

14 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The ink's barely dry on the deal... it was only signed back in March.  It's gonna take time for individual licensees and distributors to digest the big news, reach out to Big West for a better picture of the legal implications, and examine the market to see where the money is.  I'd expect Q4 2021 at the earliest.

I'd honestly be surprised if we got anything out of this before the end of the year, I'd love to be proven wrong though. 

[AN/ALQ128]

This dispute is 30 something years old, whats another year on top of that, eh?

[kajnrig]

Depending how the distribution licenses(/sub-licenses???) are handled, the merch might not make it stateside anyway. BW and HG might have worked out a new distribution deal for the shows and movies - I'm guessing HG sub-licensed the trademarks to BW to make things kosher - but the announcement IIRC says nothing about merchandising. If HG's stranglehold on the US trademarks continues to be an unnecessary hassle to the likes of Bandai, Hasegawa, Arcadia, etc., they might just treat it as business as usual and continue to ignore the US market altogether. (Frankly, I might prefer to keep it that way.)

This is all predicated, of course, on BW actually owning the trademarks in the other major markets, which is why my clarifying questions a few pages back. In China (and Brazil? Am I imagining that one?), yes, things were definitively settled in BW's favor, but is that the case in the EU? I know the initial court ruling was in BW's favor, but HG's appeal and the subsequent pause of the appeal might put the Macross trademarks in legally murky territory.

Edited April 18, 2021 by kajnrig

[treatment]

The most obvious thing I can foresee about this shallow PR-hype "agreement" is that the Macross TV currently streaming on Amazon Prime will just be moved to Funi's own streaming channel.

 

 

[renegadeleader1]

I don't want to sound like a downer here, but I don't think Macross is going to be recieved as well as it's expected to be in the west. The lack of access to or knowledge of Macross over the years for the average anime fan has expectations being something they're not.

 

People are expecting some type of epic space opera that rivals the Gundam in scale with giant galaxy spanning space battles featuring cool transforming robot fighters. Deep down we all know that's only partially the case because the other part is Big West using the franchise as an advertising vehicle to sell music. Music that people in the west likely won't give a damn about if the reception of things like the AKB0048 anime is any indication.

 

I don't think things like Mac7's Basara scream "LISTEN TO MY SONG!!!" while flying around in a fighter controlled by a guitar for 40+ episodes, Flashback glorified extended music video, or Delta's all girl pop idol group doing dance choreography in time with their fighters while fireworks and glowsticks shoot off everywhere are going to be well recieved.

 

Outside of MacII and Plus which already say western releases that just leaves Frontier and Zero of which I think only Frontier will be well received as that is closest to what the preconceived notion of what Macross should be is. Meanwhile Zero on the other hand has it's own issues. People are going to complain about the blending of cgi and cell not working and I don't think people are going to take to the psuedo-religious mythological imagery all that well.