HG and BW reach an agreement (Link included)

[Einherjar]

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

So after watching that video from the stream with HG...it definitely seems anyone wanting SDFM/DYRL merch of any of the "41" Macross characters or mecha needs to hope the likes of Bandai and Arcadia are willing to "pay to play" with HG to make them available outside of Japan.....I would hope that the profits to be made outweigh whatever "cut" HG has negotiated under this "brave new deal".....

Did someone actually say some of those phrases in the stream?  “Pay to play?” 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Einherjar

[Chronocidal]

Whether they did or not, I think it's pretty clear that Big West acknowledging Harmony Gold's distribution deal in the US means that anyone who wants to sell stuff here is going to have to go through HG, and give them a cut, like I always assumed they demanded, but BW forbid.

However, even if companies like Arcadia and Bandai decide that the expanded market is worth pursuing, I have to wonder where that leaves companies like Kids Logic, Kitzconcept, or even Toynami.  I'd expect HG has existing contracts with those manufacturers that they would probably have to break, or let expire, before they started steamrolling over them with higher quality products from Japan.

[treatment]

Not really sure why either Bandai or Arcadia will even bother.

Lots of money required just to set up and to get their Macross toys here

Then, have to pay HG a cut?

 

 

Maybe ET will bother.

They prolly still have lots of their unsold VF2SS that are rejected even by the...

Edited April 14, 2021 by treatment

[Bolt]

Why does hg have to get a cut for Frontier or Delta, etc..?

[jvmacross]

They do not...only for SDFM and DYRL releated products....i.e. the "41" characters and mecha from these shows....any other Macross show can come right in via any distribution company Bandai, Arcadia, etc chooses to partner with to distribute outside of Japan...

[Chronocidal]

In terms of marketing in the US, I don't think it's quite that unlikely for Arcadia.  Let's face it, they're hitting also-ran status behind Bandai, because they're really only left with the licenses Bandai doesn't seem to want now (and they're even in direct competition with the YF-19 somehow). 

As long as Bandai is content giving the finger to the rest of the world with their limited production, I think Arcadia might be in a good position to take advantage of the new market, and look for distribution deals outside of Japan.  Will they be able to do it?  No idea, because I don't know what that would take.  I'm only looking at this from the perspective that it's very likely that Bandai will completely ignore the wider market, and Arcadia has a potential chance to fill that demand outside of Japan in a way that Toynami and Kitzconcept aren't prepared to do.

In terms of Frontier and Delta though.. Unless Bandai starts caring a ton about the foreign market, I don't think we're getting anything more than model kits, flat out.  Frontier is old news, so I think the chances of getting a DX VF-25 re-run from Bandai are almost nil, and I can't see them repopping the early Delta merchandise either.  I think it will take a new company getting a license for Frontier and Delta before we get any international marketing of toys from those series.

That doesn't have any bearing on the shows and music, but I really don't see the US getting any major merchandise deals unless someone like Arcadia decides to partner with someone like Hasbro to get their stuff on the shelves outside of Japan.

That being said.. I think I'd straight up die laughing if this new deal also somehow winds up giving us a brand new VF-1 Jetfire release.   I don't think it's even remotely likely, but I'd still love to see it.

[GabrielV]

I tried to watch that video.  Then I started skipping through it.  If they ever say anything relevant, I don't have the patience to sit through it.

Otherwise, jvmacross just said what I had been thinking.  I was under the impression that Harmony Gold would have no involvement with anything outside of SDFM and DYRL.  Yeah, it says they'll be involved in future Macross distribution, but that could just be future distribution of SDFM and DYRL, not anything else.

 

 

 

[treatment]

4 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

That being said.. I think I'd straight up die laughing if this new deal also somehow winds up giving us a brand new VF-1 Jetfire release.   I don't think it's even remotely likely, but I'd still love to see it.

It'll be so damn HILARIOUS!

Hasbro don't even have to pay HG anything regarding it.

 

 

[Einherjar]

Despite how significant they are at this point, I think it would have made more of an impact if those 41 characters and mecha weren’t almost 40 years old and HG did not have the reputation they currently have.

[jvmacross]

9 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I'm only looking at this from the perspective that it's very likely that Bandai will completely ignore the wider market, and Arcadia has a potential chance to fill that demand outside of Japan in a way that Toynami and Kitzconcept aren't prepared to do.

 

I'm pretty sure KC must be concerned about this.....imagine if Arcadia got a license from HG to sell "Veritechs" using their decades old VF-1 V2 mold.....and then sell them at the same price as KC's 1/72 VF-1.....it would be disastrous for KC....I hope they have some "lock" on VF-1 PT toys for the foreseeable future under their HG license...if not, they need to up their game quick!

[jvmacross]

2 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

Despite how significant they are at this point, I think it would have made more of an impact if those 41 characters and mecha weren’t almost 40 years old ....

And yet....it is the venerable VF-1 Valkyrie that everyone looks forward to getting the latest and greatest version of every 10 years or so!! 

[Bolt]

21 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

They do not...only for SDFM and DYRL releated products....i.e. the "41" characters and mecha from these shows...

I got that part. In terms of the language being used in this thread. It sounds like some people think of Macross solely as SDFM..

[Chronocidal]

4 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

I'm pretty sure KC must be concerned about this.....imagine if Arcadia got a license from HG to sell "Veritechs" using their decades old VF-1 V2 mold.....and then sell them at the same price as KC's 1/72 VF-1.....it would be disastrous for KC....I hope they have some "lock" on VF-1 PT toys for the foreseeable future under their HG license...if not, they need to up their game quick!

Yeah, that's my exact concern, and I really hope for their sake that they have a locked-in contract with HG for a few years still.  They do have the figures as a backup, and maybe those would be enough to sustain them, but having Arcadia VF-1s around would very likely wreck their sales something awful.

Although.. I'm going to admit, mold and transformation issues aside, I think the KC VF-1s really do look good from the paint work they do.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Chronocidal

[jvmacross]

4 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I got that part. In terms of the language being used in this thread. It sounds like some people think of Macross solely as SDFM..

It's not?????

 

.....OK...it is also DYRL...I guess....

Edited April 14, 2021 by jvmacross

[kajnrig]

Could Bancadia avoid HG by just (well, "just") tweaking any problematic items to be from a different entry in the franchise?

Release VF-1s in Delta livery. Repaint Monsters in... I dunno, VF-X? colors. VF-4G as an M3 design. etc. etc.

[Einherjar]

16 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

And yet....it is the venerable VF-1 Valkyrie that everyone looks forward to getting the latest and greatest version of every 10 years or so!! 

Model planes can only take a company so far, though.  They got anything else planned with those 41 besides tacky merch that just screams mid-life crisis?

*The random stuff that they’ve released under the Robotech brand for years they should have put more thought into.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Einherjar

[jvmacross]

Just now, Einherjar said:

Model planes can only take a company so far, though.  They got anything else planned with those 41 besides tacky merch that just screams mid-life crisis?

Huh?  I was referring to what we get from the existing Japanese purveyors of these fine collectibles.......you insinuated that there was a problem with 40 year old designs...I responded by reminding you that Bandai just tweaked it yet again in the form of the DX VF-1 and we are all buying them up like it is TP during the height of an epidemic.......

[jvmacross]

8 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Could Bancadia avoid HG by just (well, "just") tweaking any problematic items to be from a different entry in the franchise?

Release VF-1s in Delta livery. Repaint Monsters in... I dunno, VF-X? colors. VF-4G as an M3 design. etc. etc.

Probably....as long as BW approves of the livery, canon or not, designs.....

But new fans watching "Macross" SDFM for the first time will likely want a "Rick Hunter" or "Roy Focker" scheme for their "Macross Saga" VF-1.....let's not turn off the Macross uninitiated that quickly by introducing them to Macross 7, Macross Frontier, or especially Macross Delta too soon! 

[Einherjar]

18 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Huh?  I was referring to what we get from the existing Japanese purveyors of these fine collectibles.......you insinuated that there was a problem with 40 year old designs...I responded by reminding you that Bandai just tweaked it yet again in the form of the DX VF-1 and we are all buying them up like it is TP during the height of an epidemic.......

The more domestic stuff HG tried to sell people like the ugly clothing.  Something the staff probably wore at a convention panel or threw at people as freebies.  The stuff most of us here wouldn’t waste our time on.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Einherjar

[jvmacross]

9 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

The more domestic stuff HG tried to sell people like the ugly clothing.  Something the staff probably wore at a convention panel or threw at people as freebies.  The stuff most of us here wouldn’t waste our time on.

No idea...the only HG licensed "Macross" stuff I get recently are the products from KC which I feel are good...I also buy some of the Toynami items like the SDCC items from a couple of years ago.....If it is a quality product I would buy it regardless if it was or had a HG license.....does not bother me at all

[Radd]

Hey guys. Long time, no see.

What I'm still uncertain about this are the specifics on licensing and distribution beyond the original TV series and DYRL. 

Reading through the thread it sounds like HG is getting all merchandising and distribution rights to the original TV show and DYRL movie, but it kinda also sounds like they'll get a cut of newer shows like Frontier and Delta? Or will shows beyond the original get distributed independently of HG?

 Or do we really not know for sure at this point and it's all just speculation?

In any case, I'm excited to see where this goes, especially with the Macross 40th anniversary on the horizon.

[JB0]

21 minutes ago, Radd said:

Reading through the thread it sounds like HG is getting all merchandising and distribution rights to the original TV show and DYRL movie, but it kinda also sounds like they'll get a cut of newer shows like Frontier and Delta? Or will shows beyond the original get distributed independently of HG?

The press release is vague and written to be a positive spin for all involved parties. I would bet HG gets nothing outside SDFM, and DYRL merchandise(they only have a merohandise license for DYRL, Tatsunoko doesn't have dietribution rights to the movie).

I admit the DYRL situation is complicated, and I'm not an expert in international copyright law, but don't think HG actually has any say in that one.

[Chronocidal]

53 minutes ago, JB0 said:

The press release is vague and written to be a positive spin for all involved parties. I would bet HG gets nothing outside SDFM, and DYRL merchandise(they only have a merohandise license for DYRL, Tatsunoko doesn't have dietribution rights to the movie).

I admit the DYRL situation is complicated, and I'm not an expert in international copyright law, but don't think HG actually has any say in that one.

Yeah, I've never understood how HG ever managed to market anything from DYRL at all.  Their rights came from someone completely uninvolved in the movie, as I would understand.  Things do get fuzzy when you start delving into shared character and mecha designs though, and there's obviously a ton of overlap.  I always assumed HG just claimed merchandising rights to DYRL because they had a "legitimate" stake in the designs used.  

From what I'd come to understand, Tatsunoko would have no power to grant HG any rights to DYRL at all... of course, they didn't have the rights to grant HG most of anything else they claimed ownership of either, but that never stopped them.   Maybe they just decided that they'd test the waters with their Toynami 1/100s, and see if anyone was paying attention.

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Yeah, I've never understood how HG ever managed to market anything from DYRL at all.  Their rights came from someone completely uninvolved in the movie, as I would understand.  Things do get fuzzy when you start delving into shared character and mecha designs though, and there's obviously a ton of overlap.  I always assumed HG just claimed merchandising rights to DYRL because they had a "legitimate" stake in the designs used.  

From what I'd come to understand, Tatsunoko would have no power to grant HG any rights to DYRL at all... of course, they didn't have the rights to grant HG most of anything else they claimed ownership of either, but that never stopped them.   Maybe they just decided that they'd test the waters with their Toynami 1/100s, and see if anyone was paying attention.

The lack of the SDFM and DYRL logos on the official Japanese Twitter page says a lot.....  BW may have decided to sacrifice these 2 to get the full, undisputed world-wide distribution and merch rights for all other shows and all future shows.....

 

Personally, I would let Thanos do the snap on all these shows before letting go of the original Macross......guess I'm old (school)....

[Kyp Durron]

9 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

The lack of the SDFM and DYRL logos on the official Japanese Twitter page says a lot.....  BW may have decided to sacrifice these 2 to get the full, undisputed world-wide distribution and merch rights for all other shows and all future shows.....

 

Personally, I would let Thanos do the snap on all these shows before letting go of the original Macross......guess I'm old (school)....

You ain't alone, bro. Not by a long shot.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Kyp Durron

[vladykins]

11 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Whether they did or not, I think it's pretty clear that Big West acknowledging Harmony Gold's distribution deal in the US means that anyone who wants to sell stuff here is going to have to go through HG, and give them a cut, like I always assumed they demanded, but BW forbid.

However, even if companies like Arcadia and Bandai decide that the expanded market is worth pursuing, I have to wonder where that leaves companies like Kids Logic, Kitzconcept, or even Toynami.  I'd expect HG has existing contracts with those manufacturers that they would probably have to break, or let expire, before they started steamrolling over them with higher quality products from Japan.

While we don't know what the details are on the licenses, they seem specific enough to allow both Toynami and KC to release transforming VF-1s- so the licenses are either not exclusive or they are very exclusive to specific scales (Toynami with 1/100 and KC with 1/72). So this may prove a difficulty for the HMR stuff (not that we have any of that coming out lately) but could open up the Arcadia 1/60 and Bandai 1/48 (or even a newer release of the chunkys again).

Of course, the fact I'm not seeing some of the non-Macross HMR stuff like Dougram already floating around in the states does temper any excitement I might have that we'll see anything on shelves here anytime soon. If anything, we'll maybe see availability in BBTS (hopefully).

[Einherjar]

10 hours ago, jvmacross said:

No idea...the only HG licensed "Macross" stuff I get recently are the products from KC which I feel are good...I also buy some of the Toynami items like the SDCC items from a couple of years ago.....If it is a quality product I would buy it regardless if it was or had a HG license.....does not bother me at all

I think at one point official skateboards using Macross visuals were sold.  More random stuff like that could be in the pipeline.

[vladykins]

I haven't watched the Twitch stream, but apparently Tommy Yune whips out a DX Hikaru 1J at one point and talks about the workmanship.

[jvmacross]

9 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

I think at one point official skateboards using Macross visuals were sold.  More random stuff like that could be in the pipeline.

My thrashin' days are long gone, but with a possible coming of a new onslaught of Macoss/Robotech....a Macross/Robotech Skateboard might be of interest or make sense to the newer generation of fans that could be created...Obviously, it makes no sense to GenXers who grew up watching Robotech/Macross in the late 80's

[Keith]

Why wasn't firing Yune part of the negotiation? It blows my mind that he's still employed there when he's done nothing but burn any piles of money hr"s been put in charge of.

[Bolt]

Something to hang on the wall

[jvmacross]

10 minutes ago, vladykins said:

I haven't watched the Twitch stream, but apparently Tommy Yune whips out a DX Hikaru 1J at one point and talks about the workmanship.

yes, he does.....that must have stung for KC and/or Toynami to witness....

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

yes, he does.....that must have stung for KC and/or Toynami to witness....

Especially Toynami... Harmony Gold created this whole mess to protect their then-new partnership with Toynami from competition from Bandai and Yamato.

[vladykins]

I had to make a meme.

[Kyp Durron]

2 minutes ago, vladykins said:

I had to make a meme.

LOL!