HG and BW reach an agreement (Link included)

[Keith]

4 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

 

Then they better haul a$$ then.  The last few years haven’t been good for Robotech.

I still say they just traced Archer for those designs.

[Nied]

5 minutes ago, Keith said:

This will most likely come down to what movie Sony truly wants to make. If Sony wants to make a "Robotech" movie, then at some point new animations may go into production. If Sony went through the trouble of resolving a nearly 30 legal shitfest to make the "Macross" movie they thought they bought in the first place, Robotech may finally "officially" put to bed & quietly phased out while everyone cashes in on the Macross train.

My 2 cents? I suspect Funi is in the works to dub Frontier & get it a Toonami broadcast, but time will tell.

My guess is Sony would likely split the difference. Sell the movie as Robotech here in the states and other countries where it's known by that name, and Macross back in Japan and other parts of Asia.

[Keith]

1 minute ago, Nied said:

My guess is Sony would likely split the difference. Sell the movie as Robotech here in the states and other countries where it's known by that name, and Macross back in Japan and other parts of Asia.

Well, I mean more in terms of content than name. Using terms like "Robotechnology" & "Robotech Masters" probably isn't the best approach for a big Hollywood release.

[Nied]

1 minute ago, Keith said:

Well, I mean more in terms of content than name. Using terms like "Robotechnology" & "Robotech Masters" probably isn't the best approach for a big Hollywood release.

I don't know if it's any worse than "Overtechnology" & "Zor" though.

[Duke Togo]

When this news broke I was definitely shocked. Obviously happy, but I couldn’t quite process it. Now that I’ve had a few days I find myself less excited by this. With the exception of Delta, I’ve watched every Macross production at least twice. I’m not waiting on anything. What does this really mean to me? I really don’t know.

[Keith]

2 minutes ago, Nied said:

I don't know if it's any worse than "Overtechnology" & "Zor" though.

Definitely worse. Aside from being incredibly redundant, it's highly juvenile to "Robo" everything.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, Nied said:

Unless this contract has a clause inverting the time-space continuum it'd be pretty odd to talk about past Robotech and Macross projects as future ones.

Robotech routinely tries to present re-releases of decades-old material as "new"... and markets their releases of decades-old material as "never before seen" like putting the cut footage back in Robotech Remastered or the MOSPEADA: Love Live Alive OVA.

Mind you, that's not the point.  The point is that Big West has Harmony Gold's Robotech franchise by the bollocks thanks to those trademarks, so what little Harmony Gold can bring to market RIGHT NOW (the Robotech TV series and its mostly-Macross merchandise line) is under Big West's thumb.  They signed away their future freedom to be allowed to keep doing business in the here and now.

 

10 minutes ago, Nied said:

My guess is Sony would likely split the difference. Sell the movie as Robotech here in the states and other countries where it's known by that name, and Macross back in Japan and other parts of Asia.

I doubt it.  Robotech is extremely obscure everywhere except South America, and most of the people who are aware it exists have little if nothing nice to say about it.  That's been the case since the nineties, when even advertisements for Macross II got on the bandwagon of "Robotech is old and busted, Macross is the new hotness".

I'd expect, if they can get Big West's consent, the live action movie would be rebranded Macross worldwide.  

[Keith]

4 minutes ago, Duke Togo said:

When this news broke I was definitely shocked. Obviously happy, but I couldn’t quite process it. Now that I’ve had a few days I find myself less excited by this. With the exception of Delta, I’ve watched every Macross production at least twice. I’m not waiting on anything. What does this really mean to me? I really don’t know.

It means future productions I suppose, said the guy who already owns all the recent Japanese blu-rays of the whole franchise (including Delta) + "other" releases. 

[Nied]

18 minutes ago, Keith said:

Definitely worse. Aside from being incredibly redundant, it's highly juvenile to "Robo" everything.

Agree to disagree cause they both sound goofy as hell to my ears. Anyway we live in a golden age of goofy stuff from our childhoods being taken seriously in big budget action movies. How many movies got made where the villains seriously got called "Decepticons"? 'Robotech' is downright prosaic next to that.

16 minutes ago, Keith said:

It means future productions I suppose, said the guy who already owns all the recent Japanese blu-rays of the whole franchise (including Delta) + "other" releases. 

As someone who seriously looked at using some of their stimmy to buy a grey-market Macross Plus Blu-Ray but gave up when it would cost close to $600 I'm pretty happy for this.

[Bolt]

19 hours ago, jenius said:

Too bad yamato didn't live to this day.

+1

[kajnrig]

3 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Did BW take back the trademarks in the EU, though? IIRC, they sued, a judge initially ruled in their favor, HG appealed, and then both parties moved to... suspend the case? drop the appeal?

If they (HG and BW together) have simply filed to suspend, presumably there will have to be some follow-up motions in the near future to either resume or drop the appeal?

If they've (HG mainly, though in cooperation with BW) dropped the appeal, the last declaratory action (ie the judge's ruling) would put the trademarks in BW's hands?

Was the initial ruling put on hold at all pending the appeal process? If so, and if the appeal is still technically in progress, that would mean the trademarks were/are still currently in HG's hands...? Or perhaps the court put an injunction barring either company from making use of the trademark pending the court ruling, and if the appeals court put the judge's decision on hold, that would put the trademarks currently in a legal no-man's land.

Or maybe I'm overthinking all of this.

Gonna copypasta from the last page. Anyone got any clarification?

[Einherjar]

@Nied Good for you for being enthusiastic about this, but I think you and other people who came back to the forums just because of this news missed out on on a whole bunch of things that happened with Robotech that explains why you are getting so much pushback.  I see you haven’t posted anything since 2010.  A LOT happened, much of which made it very clear that Robotech’s glory days came and went a long time ago, and maybe led to this happening.  Those things you’re excited about that might happen because of this agreement?  It’s just a continuation of what HG has been trying to do with the franchise this whole time.  Toby Macquire was the only actor playing Spider-Man in film when the Robotech movie was first announced.  Since then, HG has went year after year teasing everyone that various big name people at the time or someone at the high point of their career were talked to possibly getting involved it and then unceremoniously dropped and replaced with someone else.  The last person in the spotlight that I can remember was the director of the Aquaman film.  No effort made in other areas for it.  Those character names and designs they fought so hard to use with this deal?  They were already being used to help generate interest in recent projects but not utilized very well.  At this point any random artist can draw some white guy with spiky black hair, call him Rick Hunter, give him some corny lines, try and make him look like a good fighter pilot and it will get HG’s approval.  This is what Robotech has become these days.  At best, I think this deal lets them continue to make the same mistakes that has plagued the franchise while giving BW the freedom to tell the public “This has nothing to do with us, honest.”

[Bolt]

Indeed..

[Fortress_Maximus]

Cautiously optimistic, but remain skeptical until solid details are revealed and we observe further developments.

[Roy Focker]

More I think about it there is no "agreement" or to be more correct:  Both parties are really just publically acknowledging rights of the other party that was already decided by the courts.  The agreement is that they came up with an undisclosed (at this time) price for times when they'll cross into the other parties rights.  After 20 years of lawsuits it must have been clear that neither was going to get everything they wanted.  Only way to expand to other markets was to cooperate.

Now here's a positive.  Harmony Gold could always later sell some of its assests.  BW now on better terms could buy it back.  If Harmony Gold doesn't sell they could decide to become a passive partner with future projects.  You'll get more money with an larger investment but I doubt HG has the funds to risk making anything new themselves.  Giving creative control of their share of Macross (and other parts of Robotech) to BW and other Japanese production companies for a share of the profits without having to do anywork.  That is pretty much what's going to happen if the Robotech live action movie ever gets made.

20 bleeping years!

We've all wasted 20 years of our life keeping track and taking sides on this legal argument.  Think about what we could have done with all the time and energy we wasted on this.

 

[pengbuzz]

33 minutes ago, Roy Focker said:

We've all wasted 20 years of our life keeping track and taking sides on this legal argument.  Think about what we could have done with all the time and energy we wasted on this.

 

I didn't: I won 20 bucks on a bet I made with one of my friends several years back! Gonna sink that into a new model!

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

[...] Those things you’re excited about that might happen because of this agreement?  It’s just a continuation of what HG has been trying to do with the franchise this whole time.  Toby Macquire was the only actor playing Spider-Man in film when the Robotech movie was first announced.  Since then, HG has went year after year teasing everyone that various big name people at the time or someone at the high point of their career were talked to possibly getting involved it and then unceremoniously dropped and replaced with someone else.  The last person in the spotlight that I can remember was the director of the Aquaman film.  No effort made in other areas for it.

If anything, that's putting it rather mildly.

Practically every piece of news about the proposed Robotech live-action movie has turned out to be massively exaggerated or entirely fake.

Over the years, Harmony Gold has claimed that Lawrence Kasdan¹, Alfred Gough and Miles Millar², and Tom Rob Smith³ were attached to write the film.  None of them are.  They'd only written story treatments for a modest (and we're talking "a few grand" modest) fee and had no idea their names were being used to promote the project.  Every director who's been allegedly tapped to direct it - Sylvain White⁴, Nic Mathieu⁵, James Wan⁶, and Andy Muschietti⁷ - turned out to have only been "approached" about the film informally and did not make any commitment to it as they'd already been signed by other, bigger-name productions.  The closest any of them got to actually saying anything about it was when Andy Muschietti said the film was going to be extremely difficult to get funded because of Robotech's lack of popularity and the need for an excessively high budget to do it justice.

 

1. Most famous for writing Star Wars: the Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars: Return of the Jedi.
2. Most famous for co-creating the long-running DC Superman TV series Smallville.
3. A small-time, incredibly niche author whose bizarrely specialized practice consists almost exclusively of writing murder mysteries set in Stalinist Russia.
4. Best known for Stomp the Yard and I'll Always Know What You Did Last Summer.
5. A virgin director who'd only done TV commercials.
6. Best known for Saw, The Conjuring, and the 2018 Aquaman film.
7. Best known for Stephen King's It.

[jenius]

I'm at lease excited to see some names I haven't seen in eons on the forums again. Welcome back folks!

[AN/ALQ128]

If it means legal means to acquire Macross products in Canada can finally happen I'll be happy!

[Keith]

This whole development sent me down a rabbit hole. While no Macross soundtracks are available on apple music or amazon music yet, 1 Mospeada Soundtrack, the whole Votoms soundtrack, Megazone 23 Part 1 & Vocal Best, Casey Rankin's Orguss Op & End & the Gunbuster soundtrack are (Noriko Sakai's tracks on her own release).

The Nostalgia train is at full steam.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Keith

[HardlyNever]

This has to be nothing but good news for Macross fans in the US, right?  That said, I'm with others that are cautious about what this really means.  Legal Macross Blue Ray and licensing deals released in the US?  Sure.  But the internet made that kind of thing trivial to get around already.  Heck Amazon has had SDF Macross streaming for years now (still not sure how that worked, legally).  

Are we going to see a flood of Macross toys hit the (virtual) shelves in the US now?  I doubt it, personally.  Sure, maybe some kits from Bandai, but I doubt we'll have US distributors stocking DX valks anytime soon (lack of supply from Bandai, lack of demand (or perceived demand) stateside).  Only time will tell there, but I'm not expecting any big changes in that department any time soon.

It would be nice to get stuff like Macross 30 and the like on Steam, though.  That seems a lot easier to make happen, even if we only get english subs.

[Dynaman]

> But the internet made that kind of thing trivial to get around already. 

For those that want to go through the bother.  I was not going to do so for Delta but if it ends up on a streaming site I will give it a watch.  The ability to get a legal streaming version of Frontier would be nice too.  The grail would be a GOOD dub of DYRL.  Will it happen, have to wait and see but it is one step closer to be possible now.

[M'Kyuun]

35 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

Are we going to see a flood of Macross toys hit the (virtual) shelves in the US now?  I doubt it, personally.  Sure, maybe some kits from Bandai, but I doubt we'll have US distributors stocking DX valks anytime soon (lack of supply from Bandai, lack of demand (or perceived demand) stateside).  Only time will tell there, but I'm not expecting any big changes in that department any time soon.

It would be nice to get stuff like Macross 30 and the like on Steam, though.  That seems a lot easier to make happen, even if we only get english subs.

I doubt it, too, although I imagine big e-tailers like BBTS will likely get some stock to sell domestically. But walking into a brick and mortar (so few remain these days) and grabbing a new Bandai DX valk off the shelf is pretty unlikely, methinks. Unless BW do a serious marketing push to put Macross in the public eye, it'll remain relatively unkown here in the US and that doesn't bode well for merchandising. Hopefully, they'll utilize platforms like Netflix or Amazon to reach wider audiences with all the various Macross series available. Too, I'll be happy for English dubs; I've seen most of the Macross series now, and though I like hearing the expression in the original Japanese voice work, having to read the dialog takes away from being able to just sit back and take in all the visuals while understanding what is being said. If Funimation gets the contract to dub the series, I don't have a problem with it, except y'know, you're hearing the same voices as in every other dubbed anime coming at you. Small price, IMHO, to just be able to enjoy the visuals and hear dialog I can understand as a non-Japanese speaker.

My concern with a Robotech movie is that all the idiotic changes that were made to remove mature references, especially the nature of the Protoculture, will ruin it for me as a Macross fan. I'd rather see a purely Macross film that can be followed on by live-action films of the rest of the Saga, if that's what BW wants to do. At the very least, I'd love to see a Macross Plus movie or, better, a series on one of the big streaming services, where they have the time to flesh out the story and no censorship on mature themes, language, etc.  While I still love movies (I miss going to the theater), the ability of streaming shows to tell a prolonged story without having to edit content makes for a more enjoyable watching experience, and I'd love to see Macross done in this format, provided Studio Nue and Kawamori were involved.

I don't imagine that Big West is going to back the Robotech live action film, so how is Harmony Gold going to finance it? I know they make the majority of their money from real estate holdings, but is it enough to finance a $100m film?

[Bolt]

2 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

I don't imagine that Big West is going to back the Robotech live action film, so how is Harmony Gold going to finance it? I know they make the majority of their money from real estate holdings, but is it enough to finance a $100m film?

Supposedly that would be Sony trying to bring a dead horse back from the grave. 
Wouldn't it be funny if BW did a Macross live action instead 

[M'Kyuun]

20 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Supposedly that would be Sony trying to bring a dead horse back from the grave. 
Wouldn't it be funny if BW did a Macross live action instead 

Not funny- pure joy! 

To that end, what I'd love to see happen is that BW moves quickly to get the original Macross broadcasting on one or more streaming services, and hell why not, Cartoon Network. maybe even SyFy. Just get the original SDF:M out there into the public consciousness for mass consumption. After seeing the original show without its archaic RT changes, Macross rightfully eclipses RT in popularity fueling desire for the original franchise, leaving RT in the dust to molder and finally disappear for good, and HG with it. That would be the ultimate scenario. It would seem that BW has the upper hand in this agreement; hopefully they work ever so quickly to take advantage of that fact and make the necessary overtures to ensure its their work and not the HG Frankenstein's Monster that becomes well known and loved here in the West. Even as the ink dries, I hope BW are planning carefully how to destroy their new 'partner' once and for all. 

[Solo Wing Pixy]

Well, it has been a hot minute since i’ve last frequented these forums but the recent news was quite heartening.  If BW does indeed have all this leverage i’m excited about what it could mean for the distribution of merchandise like the DX valks abroad.  High quality releases of the original series and frontier are also things i’d love to see.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Solo Wing Pixy

[Thom]

Does this mean I can put the Kite ensign on my new-series models now..?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Supposedly that would be Sony trying to bring a dead horse back from the grave. 
Wouldn't it be funny if BW did a Macross live action instead 

Big West tossed the idea around back in the mid-90's in cooperation with Galaxy Films, but nothing ever came of it except a rough script.

IMO, it'd be f*cking hilarious if Big West hijacked Harmony Gold's live action Robotech movie proposal and got Sony to make a Macross movie instead.  

[Keith]

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Big West tossed the idea around back in the mid-90's in cooperation with Galaxy Films, but nothing ever came of it except a rough script.

IMO, it'd be f*cking hilarious if Big West hijacked Harmony Gold's live action Robotech movie proposal and got Sony to make a Macross movie instead.  

I don't even think they'd have to hijack it, it's highly likely Sony's involvement in the resolution came about because they thought they bought a "Macross" movie from HG, only to realize they were locked into the non-Macross dregs of "Robotech."

[Bolt]

59 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Big West tossed the idea around back in the mid-90's in cooperation with Galaxy Films, but nothing ever came of it except a rough script.

IMO, it'd be f*cking hilarious if Big West hijacked Harmony Gold's live action Robotech movie proposal and got Sony to make a Macross movie instead.  

Exactly 

[Big Irv]

Hello, all!  It’s been a minute!  So judging from the released legal documentation, it appears that HG is relegating themselves into being BW’s international / US distributors.  I’m perfectly fine with that.  More cheddar to go around.  But first thing’s first.  It’s past time to build the hype for transforming fighter Jets duking it out against giant aliens.  

Now, let’s be honest, Western Audiences generally won’t give a damn about the whole “J-Pop as a weapon against world ending doom fleets”.  It only worked in the DYRL Macross Movie because the climax was animated (Brilliantly I might add) as a Surreal Waking Dream; sci-fi war violence juxtaposed over a slow melodic cadence (did I mention how brilliant it was?) a feat that has rarely been matched outside of Zack Snyder’s 300 (all the bombast was tempered via gorgeous visuals that seemed painted rather than filmed).  Every attempt to repeat that musical magic has merely induced groans worldwide.  Macross 7 and Delta will certainly tank, with failing to provide enough narrative meat and wine to drown out the platter of cheese they serve up, dubbed or not.  Macross Frontier will deliver on the hype with its mech action and musical highlighting along with some “high school hijinks” bringing in a young female audience; though the Unfinished Endings (there IS a difference between Open Endings and what Macross does) will grate on audience’s nerves after M Frontier with folks expecting either a direct or indirect sequel but getting Delta-ed instead.  Re-Releasing Manga Video’s Macross Plus will assuredly pack ‘em in with “The One Who Knocks” Bryan Cranston as Isamu Dyson...’nuff said.  

If played right, combining both the Macross Audience and giant robot Nostalgia  should expand the fan base worldwide enough to create demand for Macross DX re-releases along with Bigger Investors outside of just Japan to ensure any new Macross series can focus on Characters, Storyline and World Building rather than whatever singing teen idol fetish commercial Macross Delta was.  Cautiously optimistic but still fanboy giddy inside.   

Edited April 11, 2021 by Big Irv
Clarification and paragraph spaces

[M'Kyuun]

Agree- I think they'd do well to do the original SDF:M, followed by Macross Plus, which I think will resonate with the thirty-somethings and above who remember the competition between the YF-23 and YF-22 which inspired it, and Frontier, which had a really good balance of story, music, and transforming mecha action. as well as tapping into the kaiju trope with the Vajra. Frontier's just pretty to watch, but it had good characters that drew you in, and that's what they need to hook a new younger audience. At this point in the Saga, Big West has plenty of ammunition to overshadow HG's bastardized version of SDF:M, and I think if audiences have the chance to watch both, most people will gravitate to the more mature and sensible original show. Then again, this is America so I may be overestimating, especially in the light of events over the past few years.

[Nied]

17 hours ago, Einherjar said:

@Nied Good for you for being enthusiastic about this, but I think you and other people who came back to the forums just because of this news missed out on on a whole bunch of things that happened with Robotech that explains why you are getting so much pushback.  I see you haven’t posted anything since 2010.  A LOT happened, much of which made it very clear that Robotech’s glory days came and went a long time ago, and maybe led to this happening.  Those things you’re excited about that might happen because of this agreement?  It’s just a continuation of what HG has been trying to do with the franchise this whole time.  Toby Macquire was the only actor playing Spider-Man in film when the Robotech movie was first announced.  Since then, HG has went year after year teasing everyone that various big name people at the time or someone at the high point of their career were talked to possibly getting involved it and then unceremoniously dropped and replaced with someone else.  The last person in the spotlight that I can remember was the director of the Aquaman film.  No effort made in other areas for it.  Those character names and designs they fought so hard to use with this deal?  They were already being used to help generate interest in recent projects but not utilized very well.  At this point any random artist can draw some white guy with spiky black hair, call him Rick Hunter, give him some corny lines, try and make him look like a good fighter pilot and it will get HG’s approval.  This is what Robotech has become these days.  At best, I think this deal lets them continue to make the same mistakes that has plagued the franchise while giving BW the freedom to tell the public “This has nothing to do with us, honest.”

I mean I have been lurking here since then. I guess I don't find the evidence here very convincing. Producers talk up the talent they've approached for a project all the time when trying to attract investors and if shitty tie-in comics were all it took to kill a franchise every property since Star Wars would have been dead as a door-nail.

Frankly all I care about at this point is being able to buy non-bootleg Blu-rays of DYRL, Plus and 7 for a combined price that's less than a 10 year old Honda Civic. The fact that this deal ups the chances of new Robotech stuff from "basically impossible" to "not very likely" is just gravy.

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, Nied said:

and if shitty tie-in comics were all it took to kill a franchise every property since Star Wars would have been dead as a door-nail.

Careful son

[JB0]

I just realized a HUGE problem with this annuncement.

 

We've spent two decades watching a succession of drama-bombs from these two franchises' legal situation. Where the heck are we supposed to get our legal soap opera now?