Macross II Lovers Again Mardook.

[Invid99]

I just finished it and I thought it was OK. I had a issue with how the Mardook was portrayed. Showrunner should have gone for the classic Zentraedi villain look. That what made the first Macross series so great. The Zentraedi were grounded compared to the Mardook. Didn't like the indian weird tatoo they had in their faces. Their customes were over the top. I think if the show just had a rogue Zentraedi faction, it would have been much better. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Invid99

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Invid99 said:

I had a issue with how the Mardook was portrayed. Showrunner should have gone for the classic Zentraedi villain look. That what made the first Macross series so great.

That would have been counter to the story's needs in a couple of different ways.

For one, Macross II: Lovers Again is not a sequel to Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  In most respects it's a sequel to the movie Macross: Do You Remember Love?.  DYRL?'s Zentradi have a very different, and significantly more alien and intimidating, aesthetic than the dated and admittedly slightly goofy 70's-esque look they had in the TV series.  IMO, taking the Mardook leadership seriously would've been a lot harder if they were rocking the same Boddole Zer's grey robe from the Ming the Merciless winter collection that looked more than slightly campy even in '82.

For two, that the Mardook are an ancient race separate and distinct from the Zentradi and with their own culture and customs was very important to the OVA's plot and message.  A good deal of their design and nomenclature is in subtle service of reminding the viewer of that fact. 

(Macross II's director strongly implied that the Mardook are a surviving branch of the ancient Protoculture civilization who created the Zentradi and Meltrandi.)

 

2 hours ago, Invid99 said:

The Zentraedi were grounded compared to the Mardook. Didn't like the indian weird tatoo they had in their faces. Their customes were over the top. I think if the show just had a rogue Zentraedi faction, it would have been much better. 

As a whole, the Zentradi aren't so much grounded as simply devoid of character... albeit intentionally.  Their whole schtick was that they were a clone army that had no concept of any aspect of culture or social interaction beyond military duty, again intentionally, to make them more effective and obedient killing machines.  There isn't really much that can be done with them in terms of character arcs because of this, though, which is likely why Macross so rarely revisits them as antagonists.

The Mardook, by contrast, are an ancient species with their own culture and traditions whose belief in the inherent superiority of their culture and xenophobic desire to preserve that culture from outside influence is their casus belli.  

 

[Bolt]

3 hours ago, Invid99 said:

I think if the show just had a rogue Zentraedi faction, it would have been much better. 

Macross Frontier covers that a bit. 

[Seto Kaiba]

16 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Macross Frontier covers that a bit. 

Macross II's tie-in games Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song had stories centered on rogue Zentradi fleets, though they had to give the Zentradi a character who actually had some prior development (read: "Quamzin") to add some interest and have a new crop of Zentradi spies experience culture to flavor up a kind of bland antagonist.  By the time Macross II's events roll around in 2092, the UN Forces don't even consider rogue Zentradi fleets a real threat anymore because they're so used to fighting them and have refined it to an almost literal art.

The ones in Macross Frontier aren't a rogue Zentradi fleet as such, just a bunch of unruly gits in a New UN Spacy Marine Corps unit who started a mutiny for the lulz while assigned to an isolated backwater planet.

[Invid99]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That would have been counter to the story's needs in a couple of different ways.

For one, Macross II: Lovers Again is not a sequel to Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  In most respects it's a sequel to the movie Macross: Do You Remember Love?.  DYRL?'s Zentradi have a very different, and significantly more alien and intimidating, aesthetic than the dated and admittedly slightly goofy 70's-esque look they had in the TV series.  IMO, taking the Mardook leadership seriously would've been a lot harder if they were rocking the same Boddole Zer's grey robe from the Ming the Merciless winter collection that looked more than slightly campy even in '82.

For two, that the Mardook are an ancient race separate and distinct from the Zentradi and with their own culture and customs was very important to the OVA's plot and message.  A good deal of their design and nomenclature is in subtle service of reminding the viewer of that fact. 

(Macross II's director strongly implied that the Mardook are a surviving branch of the ancient Protoculture civilization who created the Zentradi and Meltrandi.)

 

As a whole, the Zentradi aren't so much grounded as simply devoid of character... albeit intentionally.  Their whole schtick was that they were a clone army that had no concept of any aspect of culture or social interaction beyond military duty, again intentionally, to make them more effective and obedient killing machines.  There isn't really much that can be done with them in terms of character arcs because of this, though, which is likely why Macross so rarely revisits them as antagonists.

The Mardook, by contrast, are an ancient species with their own culture and traditions whose belief in the inherent superiority of their culture and xenophobic desire to preserve that culture from outside influence is their casus belli.  

 

Yeah, if they looked like the Zentradis from DYRL, I think I would have liked the Mardook better. Still, I find the campy look from the 82 series good. It just suffered from the animation from that time imo. 

Macross II should have just gone for a more average look of the Mardook like the Zor for example. Maybe bring back a combination of Bioroids and Zentradi power suits. 

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Invid99 said:

Yeah, if they looked like the Zentradis from DYRL, I think I would have liked the Mardook better. Still, I find the campy look from the 82 series good. It just suffered from the animation from that time imo. 

That would've been counter to purpose, as indicated previously.

The Mardook aren't Zentradi, and they see the Zentradi as nothing more than disposable biological automata meant for military use.

 

11 hours ago, Invid99 said:

Macross II should have just gone for a more average look of the Mardook like the Zor for example. Maybe bring back a combination of Bioroids and Zentradi power suits. 

First, Southern Cross has no connection to Macross except being sponsored by the same company.

Second, nobody's going to reference Southern Cross.  That series was a massive flop in Japan.  So much so that it got cancelled barely halfway into its run.

[Invid99]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That would've been counter to purpose, as indicated previously.

The Mardook aren't Zentradi, and they see the Zentradi as nothing more than disposable biological automata meant for military use.

 

My point is they should have made the Mardook look better. The tatoos on their face and clothing, made them similar too typical of a fantasy anime character we've seen from other animes. Despite not being Zentradi, they could have gone for a similar appearance, since they are vaguely related(maybe descendants of the Protoculture?). Their power armor is even a bit similar to the Zentradi ones. But that's just my opinion on the Mardook. Where a couple of the stuff that annoyed with the show, but too tired to list it up  

Edited March 24, 2021 by Invid99

[Bolt]

For it's time ,MII was pretty awesome. While it doesn't necessarily get the love and attention most other Macross does, it's still a classic. And it filled a much needed void, at the time. I personally love the designs and aesthetics of that series. And I'm an Ishtar fan boy

[Invid99]

10 minutes ago, Bolt said:

For it's time ,MII was pretty awesome. While it doesn't necessarily get the love and attention most other Macross does, it's still a classic. And it filled a much needed void, at the time. I personally love the designs and aesthetics of that series. And I'm an Ishtar fan boy

I'm happy you enjoyed it   I myself love Southern Cross and it's one my top animes of all time. Despite the facts that many didn't like it. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Invid99

[Bolt]

Super Dimension Cavalry Souther Cross has some interesting mecha. It would have been very interesting to have seen it run longer on tv.  It may have adapted better to live action than SDFM..

Edited March 25, 2021 by Bolt

[Invid99]

29 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Super Dimension Cavalry Souther Cross has some interesting mecha. It would have been very interesting to have seen it run longer on tv.  It may have adapted better to live action than SDFM..

Yeah. My favourite are the Bioroids. I wouldn't mind see a continuation of Robotech The Sentinels and see some of the mechs with improved design, for example the Logan. Maybe Netflix can do a deal with HG? Netflix is having some success with their animations. I'm open to a live-action adaptation as well. 

[Seto Kaiba]

Incidentally guys, remember the forum rules... we don't talk about the R-word or HG here.  It gets threads locked.

 

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

For it's time ,MII was pretty awesome. While it doesn't necessarily get the love and attention most other Macross does, it's still a classic. And it filled a much needed void, at the time. I personally love the designs and aesthetics of that series. And I'm an Ishtar fan boy

Macross II: Lovers Again had some interesting stuff going for it, as a more conservative and Gundam-influenced Macross sequel than the stuff that Kawamori came up with later on... though it didn't quite light the world on fire the way some of its hype, especially in the US hobby press at the time, said it was going to.  I have quite a soft spot for it, since it was my first real Macross series, though I wouldn't quite rank it as my favorite anymore even though I have more Valkyrie II's than any other model of VF in my collection.

The Protoculture in particular definitely went in a radically different direction after Macross II, instead of the implied existence as a sort of nomadic but stagnant culture they became irresponsible vanished precursors from the far side of Clarke's Third Law.

[Rhubarbarian]

36 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I have quite a soft spot for it, since it was my first real Macross series, though I wouldn't quite rank it as my favorite anymore even though I have more Valkyrie II's than any other model of VF in my collection.

I re-watched it recently with a friend and honestly, it's a lot better than I remember it? Like you, I had a lot of fondness for it since it was the first proper anime I bought on VHS, but I was unsure how the friend would respond. They liked it well enough, though. It's also very specifically my early 90s aesthetic jam, so the great animation,* designs, and the over-exposed blue is doing a lot more to carry the show than how much I like Hibiki as a character.

*Block out the animation in the sixth episode when they ran out of money.