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MacrossWorld's PO Thread - NEXT PO of 2024 will be JUNE 6TH at NOW JST...DX VF-25S Armored Messiah Valkyrie (Ozma Lee) Revival Ver....a WWM/TWS Release...POST LINKS TO AVAILABLE PO's and KEEP DISCUSSIONS ON POs HERE


jvmacross

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1 hour ago, PointBlankSniper said:

BBTS resells jp exclusive p-bandai stuff too though. They can't be used as evidence of WWM release.

And at $350 it's a 66% markup over Japan retail price. Yikes. Works out to $100 more than I spent at my proxy, but you're paying for convenience. If you click on the quantity dropdown you can order up to 24 copies. I wonder if that's a mistake. Otherwise someone is going to build a large squadron....

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How are folks getting a 66% markup?  The price comparisons really need to at least take into account the cost of international shipping....No Japanese retailer that I am aware of is going to ship you anything for free....likewise, some US retailers provide free shipping for certain sale amounts and some do not charge you tax on your purchase....you need to compare the total cost, not just the MSRP....I agree, so far, all initial PO's from non-Japanese retailers will cost you less in total, but I do not think you are saving a whopping 66% by simply buying your WWM straight from Japan...

It's unfortunate that retailers like BBTS and others, are not able to offer the same items at the same Japanese MSRP....the only way that they can even compete is by offsetting the shipping cost, but most times it is not enough, until the item 'goes on sale'....for this you can't blame anyone other than the folks at Bandai and BW....if they really want WWM to succeed, they need to figure out how to sell their merch at the same price regardless of where in the world it is being sold.....but I think this would not be in vendor's like Bandai's best interest....they know the market for Macross is not that good outside of Japan...and crippling it even further by agreeing to not include SDFM/DYRL was a big mistake....sadly, what may end up happening is that Macross will become synonymous with being 'shelf warmer' merch that ends up as 'clearance fodder'...

On last thing....all this stuff from Bandai is being manufactured in CHINA.....so how is it that ThreeZero is able to price their new VF-1J at $149.99 via their website...and it also costs $149.99 on several retailers in the US?  In fact, I think I have seen it listed for the same MSRP and with free shipping on at least one US retailer...probably just charging you tax maybe.....not sure how a larger company like Bandai cannot do the same?  I hope the BW/HG deal did not actually contain some clause about a built-in 'fee' for any Macross item sold in non-Japanese retail sites that goes to HG....or perhaps a mandatory import tax going to local tax collection agencies for each country where these items are being sold....it makes no sense....

200w.gif?cid=6c09b9522tlw7ft86vsdpk403q3

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19 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

How are folks getting a 66% markup?  The price comparisons really need to at least take into account the cost of international shipping....No Japanese retailer that I am aware of is going to ship you anything for free....likewise, some US retailers provide free shipping for certain sale amounts and some do not charge you tax on your purchase....you need to compare the total cost, not just the MSRP....I agree, so far, all initial PO's from non-Japanese retailers will cost you less in total, but I do not think you are saving a whopping 66% by simply buying your WWM straight from Japan...

There might be an inverted percentage involved in that 66%, since I think it should be 33%. :lol:  But no, it's not accounting for shipping, tax, or whatever other international blood sacrifice we're paying to Bandai to get them to ship things here.

Raw shelf price of about 40,000 yen comes to about $255 right now.  BBTS is adding $95 on top of that, plus $4 shipping.  Coupled with a local tax rate of about 10% (calling California the worst case scenario, because let's face it, it is), that's about another $35 on top, which while I've never used it personally, I'm betting would probably cover slow boat shipping.  Ends up being roughly $290 vs $390.

Definitely not a 66% difference, but depending on tax and shipping, you're still looking at a difference of up to $100.  You might be able to work that down to closer to $50 depending on circumstances, but however you look at it, they're really not making the import options attractive.

It almost feels like a tolerance test to gauge just how desperate international customers are to actually get any of these products imported.

 

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46 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

 

It almost feels like a tolerance test to gauge just how desperate international customers are to actually get any of these products imported.

 

It's funny how the same is happening with the media releases....except for those, the idea apparently was to get the prices to somehow match what some were shelling out for the Japanese releases anyways.....heck, I'd be perfectly fine if the same tactic was used for the toys/collectibles....IMO WWM has been a debacle and that's before even including the omission of the 2 shows that anyone actually cares about outside of Japan...LOL

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MSRP = ¥33,000, roughly $210.00 right now

BBTS Price = $350.00

350.00 - 210.00 = 140.00

140.00 / 210.00 = 0.66

Sadly, it really is a 66% markup over MSRP. A 33% markup would only be $280.00. If you plug $210 and 66% into any online price markup calculator, like this one, you'll get the same answer:

https://www.omnicalculator.com/finance/markup

As we've discussed many, many times before in this thread, I agree that full price comparisons should factor in shipping costs, etc., but these two numbers (MSRP in Japan vs. price in the US) are the only ones that are fixed and they represent the best place to start a conversation. From here we as collectors can start making individual choices about whether it's worth dealing with PO madness and paying $25-$50 to have it shipped from Japan (slow vs. fast). Even with expensive shipping, you're still looking at a roughly 35% markup to get it through a US store, plus the longer wait time. Unless you choose slow shipping from Japan, which makes that first option more affordable. The best option is the one that makes sense for you.

I also see the same patterns you do with respect to pricing set by other companies like ThreeZero and Good Smile. It costs roughly as much to buy items no matter where you are. It's rare to see large markups for international customers. Bandai is making a consistent business decision to mark up items across multiple lines, not just Macross (but this is MW so we can focus on complaining about it :D). Why are they doing this? I know we've speculated before. Small production runs that cost a lot? Old fashioned corporate greed? Part of me thinks they are charging what they think the market can bear and will adjust prices (or just stop making Macross stuff) if we stop buying. We've seen them cancel lines before....

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Except...as explained already....no one will ship you anything from Japan for free...

Saying the markup is 66% is at best not helpful to the community....by this point in the WWM journey...most folks here  understand that posting these sensational markups are not based on real world conditions...

Again, it is still more economical to get your WWM straight from Japan....this is a fact...but it's nowhere near 66% cheaper...not sure what the motive is to use such a skewed figure....if the goal is to make buyers aware that it is still better to buy from Japan....you can still accomplish this by including total costs into your calculations...

Additionally, as a consumer looking to get the best deal stateside....you are not going to start looking at the most expensive shops, like BBTS...

For example, Kappa Hobby has the DX armored VF-25S at $308.88 vs $349.99 at most other shops (before tax and shipping costs if any)...whether you are placing your PO in Japan or outside of Japan...most will try to secure an order where the price is the lowest first...then move onto the next lowest-priced shop as availability changes...

This is why it is helpful when members here are able to tally up the various prices offered during initial PO's to get accurate comparison data...

 

 

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17 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

BBTS resells jp exclusive p-bandai stuff too though. They can't be used as evidence of WWM release.

Yeah, I'm waiting for it to show up somewhere like USAGS or Crunchyroll before I make that judgement.

I'd normally expect the 'markup' to be higher if BBTS was self-importing, but with the pricing of recent WWM releases that's definitely not a given.

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Tokyo Otaku Mode... Highly reputable, I've used them for years.  Once you become a premium member the discounts + cash back put you at a huge advantage.  Use the new DX Chogokin VF-25 Armored Revival as an example.  Check it out at  $313 with 25% cash back, then daisy chained across a 2nd order, then a third order, each using the cash back from the previous order,  The 25% oscillates a bit with each order since the 25% for forward orders is calculated after the discount is applied to current order.  Comes out well-under $300 each, and USA shipping is free for any order over $150.   

During clearance events sometimes they double or triple the cash back ON TOP OF the clearance price. The math is self-evident.

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9 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Except...as explained already....no one will ship you anything from Japan for free...

Saying the markup is 66% is at best not helpful to the community....by this point in the WWM journey...most folks here  understand that posting these sensational markups are not based on real world conditions...

Again, it is still more economical to get your WWM straight from Japan....this is a fact...but it's nowhere near 66% cheaper...not sure what the motive is to use such a skewed figure....if the goal is to make buyers aware that it is still better to buy from Japan....you can still accomplish this by including total costs into your calculations...

Additionally, as a consumer looking to get the best deal stateside....you are not going to start looking at the most expensive shops, like BBTS...

For example, Kappa Hobby has the DX armored VF-25S at $308.88 vs $349.99 at most other shops (before tax and shipping costs if any)...whether you are placing your PO in Japan or outside of Japan...most will try to secure an order where the price is the lowest first...then move onto the next lowest-priced shop as availability changes...

This is why it is helpful when members here are able to tally up the various prices offered during initial PO's to get accurate comparison data...

It is a large markup, but its final size depends on the choices you make. Your key assumption is that most people are chasing the lowest possible price. That is not always true. I would rather pay a bit more to work with a very stable, very reputable store or proxy (in Japan or the US) than trust a small operation that might fold at any moment and take my money with them--just to save $25-50 on an item that may never be released again. But that's how I feel about the risk. Others might feel differently.

You can keep shipping cost from Japan to a low number by utilizing slower options, consolidating shipments, etc. It also does not cost Bandai more than a few dollars per unit to put these toys in a cargo container and move them to the US, so there is a very large price discrepancy between what they sell for in Japan and what they sell for here that needs to be recognized. I know we joke about the "old collector tax," but it's real. The marked up prices in the US are about convenience and how much we're willing to pay for it. I point out the difference between Japan MSRP and US prices so that we, as a community, can have a conversational starting point about that convenience cost and make the best purchasing decisions for ourselves. Your comments, mine, and those from other MW members are all helpful in getting us where we want to go.

At this point I think we need a pinned answer to the question of what costs to consider for all four options (Retail from Japan, TWE from Japan, Retail from Overseas, TWE from Overseas). It could be a small table, something like this:

image.png.91866ef1faabc86606a34a88a7cf7ede.png

Retail from Japan generally doesn't include taxes, but it depends on the store. TWE from Japan does include taxes on top of proxy fees. Then there is shipping from Japan, with a range of prices and waiting times. US retail involves taxes (or should in almost all cases), shipping, and a long wait time--on top of an undisputable markup from Bandai for the convenience of not having to deal with PO Madness and overseas shipping. How you view that markup depends on where you shop and the choices you make.

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7 minutes ago, Anasazi37 said:

It is a large markup, but its final size depends on the choices you make. Your key assumption is that most people are chasing the lowest possible price. That is not always true. I would rather pay a bit more to work with a very stable, very reputable store or proxy (in Japan or the US) than trust a small operation that might fold at any moment and take my money with them--just to save $25-50 on an item that may never be released again. But that's how I feel about the risk. Others might feel differently.

You can keep shipping cost from Japan to a low number by utilizing slower options, consolidating shipments, etc. It also does not cost Bandai more than a few dollars per unit to put these toys in a cargo container and move them to the US, so there is a very large price discrepancy between what they sell for in Japan and what they sell for here that needs to be recognized. I know we joke about the "old collector tax," but it's real. The marked up prices in the US are about convenience and how much we're willing to pay for it. I point out the difference between Japan MSRP and US prices so that we, as a community, can have a conversational starting point about that convenience cost and make the best purchasing decisions for ourselves. Your comments, mine, and those from other MW members are all helpful in getting us where we want to go.

At this point I think we need a pinned answer to the question of what costs to consider for all four options (Retail from Japan, TWE from Japan, Retail from Overseas, TWE from Overseas). It could be a small table, something like this:

image.png.91866ef1faabc86606a34a88a7cf7ede.png

Retail from Japan generally doesn't include taxes, but it depends on the store. TWE from Japan does include taxes on top of proxy fees. Then there is shipping from Japan, with a range of prices and waiting times. US retail involves taxes (or should in almost all cases), shipping, and a long wait time--on top of an undisputable markup from Bandai for the convenience of not having to deal with PO Madness and overseas shipping. How you view that markup depends on where you shop and the choices you make.

Saying that PO's from Japan will save you 66% vs buying from a US retailer is not helpful because it is not based on what you will actually end up saving once all required costs are added......it's unrealistic and I think most here can see past the sensational markup posts by now.....

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7 hours ago, Anasazi37 said:

It is a large markup, but its final size depends on the choices you make. Your key assumption is that most people are chasing the lowest possible price. That is not always true. I would rather pay a bit more to work with a very stable, very reputable store or proxy (in Japan or the US) than trust a small operation that might fold at any moment and take my money with them--just to save $25-50 on an item that may never be released again. But that's how I feel about the risk. Others might feel differently.

You can keep shipping cost from Japan to a low number by utilizing slower options, consolidating shipments, etc. It also does not cost Bandai more than a few dollars per unit to put these toys in a cargo container and move them to the US, so there is a very large price discrepancy between what they sell for in Japan and what they sell for here that needs to be recognized. I know we joke about the "old collector tax," but it's real. The marked up prices in the US are about convenience and how much we're willing to pay for it. I point out the difference between Japan MSRP and US prices so that we, as a community, can have a conversational starting point about that convenience cost and make the best purchasing decisions for ourselves. Your comments, mine, and those from other MW members are all helpful in getting us where we want to go.

At this point I think we need a pinned answer to the question of what costs to consider for all four options (Retail from Japan, TWE from Japan, Retail from Overseas, TWE from Overseas). It could be a small table, something like this:

image.png.91866ef1faabc86606a34a88a7cf7ede.png

Retail from Japan generally doesn't include taxes, but it depends on the store. TWE from Japan does include taxes on top of proxy fees. Then there is shipping from Japan, with a range of prices and waiting times. US retail involves taxes (or should in almost all cases), shipping, and a long wait time--on top of an undisputable markup from Bandai for the convenience of not having to deal with PO Madness and overseas shipping. How you view that markup depends on where you shop and the choices you make.

It's a small point, and only applicable based on (an American) one's budget and willingness to wait, but once in the US market, and even after taxes, opportunities for discounts that could overall rival Japanese MSRP or sometimes beat it, do happen. We may not see it so much with DX, or at places like BBTS, but we've seen it with HMR on Amazon.

Also, and I'm not saying it's completely reflective, but in the parallel world of Bandai's kaiju offerings, some prices have come down due to Bandai's specific inroads into the US market. Bandai's mass-market vinyl figures, and MonsterArts, comparable to DX for articulated kaiju figures, have sometimes depreciated, and with greater distribution, led to opportunities to find them at retailers at discount. I know that's largely non-analagous due to the licensing restrictions we deal with on Macross on many of the main figures we're after, but those that do have US availability via Bandai Namco (same distributor) are potentially just as subject to discount.

Even with that chart, when it comes to WWM releases, I won't always jump fast. I have a smaller budget, more narrow desires, and less space than some. Gambling on seeing it later at an affordable price is not always the wrong choice in a market where stock is spread out more.

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8 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Saying that PO's from Japan will save you 66% vs buying from a US retailer is not helpful because it is not based on what you will actually end up saving once all required costs are added......it's unrealistic and I think most here can see past the sensational markup posts by now.....

That is not what I'm saying. You missed my point...again. It's not sensationalist and minimizing the comments of others, and the larger price discrepancy situation, is not helpful. Please stop. As I suggested in my last post, I think it's a good idea to be able to point people to a resource that breaks down the cost considerations for each purchasing option, in specific terms, so they can make the best decision for themselves. I offered a table that does so, which could use some community feedback for improvement so it covers everything we care about (like possible future discounts, as @Radioguy pointed out). What do you think we can offer the community that will help?

1 hour ago, Radioguy said:

It's a small point, and only applicable based on (an American) one's budget and willingness to wait, but once in the US market, and even after taxes, opportunities for discounts that could overall rival Japanese MSRP or sometimes beat it, do happen. We may not see it so much with DX, or at places like BBTS, but we've seen it with HMR on Amazon.

Also, and I'm not saying it's completely reflective, but in the parallel world of Bandai's kaiju offerings, some prices have come down due to Bandai's specific inroads into the US market. Bandai's mass-market vinyl figures, and MonsterArts, comparable to DX for articulated kaiju figures, have sometimes depreciated, and with greater distribution, led to opportunities to find them at retailers at discount. I know that's largely non-analagous due to the licensing restrictions we deal with on Macross on many of the main figures we're after, but those that do have US availability via Bandai Namco (same distributor) are potentially just as subject to discount.

Even with that chart, when it comes to WWM releases, I won't always jump fast. I have a smaller budget, more narrow desires, and less space than some. Gambling on seeing it later at an affordable price is not always the wrong choice in a market where stock is spread out more.

Those are great points. We've seen places like Amazon offer WWM items at discounts and both this community and the big FB groups are good about spreading the news when the discounts show up. The discounts absolutely help. It's a double-edged sword, though. The discounts often happen because stores have too much stock and they'd rather take a hit on a sale than let the toys continue to take up space in a warehouse. The more that happens with Macross items, the less stock the stores might order, which Bandai could interpret as low interest and reconsider their WWM initiative. It's a tough situation because to encourage Bandai to keep distributing globally, so it is less risky for collectors to gamble on something being available later at an affordable price, means that we should all be buying from our local stores, but that requires paying much higher prices and waiting a lot longer for items. If Bandai stops distributing globally, we're back to PO Madness, with limited stock and lots of unhappy collectors. If we did all switch to buying locally at the current prices and wait times, the discounts might become less common and affordability declines as a result. Makes your head hurt to think about it. I'm not sure what the happy medium here is, beyond sometimes, but not always, seeing discounts on items. Would love to hear from someone with an economics background (not my area of expertise).

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1 hour ago, Anasazi37 said:

That is not what I'm saying. You missed my point...again. It's not sensationalist and minimizing the comments of others, and the larger price discrepancy situation, is not helpful. Please stop. As I suggested in my last post, I think it's a good idea to be able to point people to a resource that breaks down the cost considerations for each purchasing option, in specific terms, so they can make the best decision for themselves. I offered a table that does so, which could use some community feedback for improvement so it covers everything we care about (like possible future discounts, as @Radioguy pointed out). What do you think we can offer the community that will help?

...

Throwing up data based on incorrect assumptions doesn't really help...I call it sensational because it is so far from the truth that it just seems to be posted just for shock value....of course, you will keep doing it but it doesn't serve any purpose except maybe make some people feel they are getting a way better deal than they think they are?

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2 hours ago, Anasazi37 said:

Those are great points. We've seen places like Amazon offer WWM items at discounts and both this community and the big FB groups are good about spreading the news when the discounts show up. The discounts absolutely help. It's a double-edged sword, though. The discounts often happen because stores have too much stock and they'd rather take a hit on a sale than let the toys continue to take up space in a warehouse. The more that happens with Macross items, the less stock the stores might order, which Bandai could interpret as low interest and reconsider their WWM initiative. It's a tough situation because to encourage Bandai to keep distributing globally, so it is less risky for collectors to gamble on something being available later at an affordable price, means that we should all be buying from our local stores, but that requires paying much higher prices and waiting a lot longer for items. If Bandai stops distributing globally, we're back to PO Madness, with limited stock and lots of unhappy collectors. If we did all switch to buying locally at the current prices and wait times, the discounts might become less common and affordability declines as a result. Makes your head hurt to think about it. I'm not sure what the happy medium here is, beyond sometimes, but not always, seeing discounts on items. Would love to hear from someone with an economics background (not my area of expertise).

Yeah, that crossed my mind, and always does when a deal is great. Seeing Amazon drop the HMR prices to $60 and below was both tantalizing and worrying at the same time. When I saw that, in my mind it put a nail into the coffin of more wide American releases; especially DX. Obviously, I too would personally rather see a wide selection of Macross items in the USA closer to MSRP, as that would still allow for the possibility of retailer-specific deals, but I've also said that I would sooner support a local brick and mortar which may have to upcharge a bit due to overhead. To have local shops, of which there are far too few, carry Macross items on a regular basis would be a beautiful thing.

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3 hours ago, Radioguy said:

 Obviously, I too would personally rather see a wide selection of Macross items in the USA closer to MSRP, as that would still allow for the possibility of retailer-specific deals, but I've also said that I would sooner support a local brick and mortar which may have to upcharge a bit due to overhead. To have local shops, of which there are far too few, carry Macross items on a regular basis would be a beautiful thing.

Personally I think Macross needs more exposure to widen interest for more product purchases and maybe lower cost in US retail.

Toyark (IIRC) hasn't had a Macross news post since 2011. Toynewsi has no Macross mentions. Granted Macross is a niche product for a specific kind of collector; but so is a lot of other stuff today. 

The Disney+ offerings could help get the name out to a wider audience too; when it actually happens.

Edited by blackconvoy_D01
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8 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Personally I think Macross needs more exposure to widen interest for more product purchases and maybe lower cost in US retail.

Toyark (IIRC) hasn't had a Macross news post since 2011. Toynewsi has no Macross mentions. Granted Macross is a niche product for a specific kind of collector; but so is a lot of other stuff. 

The Disney+ offerings could help get the name out to a wider audience too; when it actually happens.

Agreed. Robotech might be getting more mentions, and, I have to think, with ThreeZero and KC being compared to Macross-branded alternatives, that there's still going to be added interest in Bandai's offerings once folks hear of them in relation to the new TZ releases at least. Then the new box sets...they may spur interest in merch beyond some included Toynami figure as well.

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14 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

Please refresh me. Items in the HLJ warehouse get charged? And can I cancel them when in the warehouse?


As per HLJ T&C:

499C5D06-BFFE-4BE6-8054-2ED870E9079B.jpeg.8f4dd2b20f2ba1bf3d653e7a8c2b00cc.jpeg

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11 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Unfortunately for anyone in California, they do charge CA sales tax here. Just shy of $340 shipped.

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I don't come here as much as I used to (mainly active on tfw2005), but Yoyakunow still has a couple available.  I just shipped a few Metal Builds from them and 3 day shipping was only $30 USD.

https://www.yoyakunow.com/en/robots/21719-dx-chogokin-vf-25s-armored-messiah-valkyrie-ozma-lee-custom-revival-ver.html

$252 + $35 = $287

Edited by Bullet_Sponge
Added cost details
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