Star Wars Rogue Squadron, in theaters TBA

[Chronocidal]

29 minutes ago, Mog said:

Can anyone fill me in on the old EU history of the Rogue Squadron?  I’m not as well versed in that aspect.

Always thought they were the aces of the Rebellion.  

So when I hear about pilots “earning their wings” in a squad that had Luke and Wedge “I Have TWO Death Star Killmarks on My Ride” Antilles, it kinda kills the mystique of the Rogues.

I can't say much for the comics series, because I never read them, but I believe they picked up shortly after ROTJ, with Wedge rebuilding the squadron after the losses taken at Endor. I think the comics give you the story of Tycho Celchu (A-Wing pilot who split off from the group inside the Death Star at Endor) going on an undercover mission on Coruscant that leads to his capture by/rescue from Ysanne Isard, basically the big bad of that timeframe who schemed her way into power. 

The X-Wing novel series picks up after those events, and you see Wedge on another recruiting drive, leading up to the full invasion/capture of Coruscant, as well as the overarching plan Isard had to poison the planet with a plague to drain their resources and sow general chaos and unrest.

The first four books are focused on the Rogues, before they switched authors and gave Wedge Wraith Squadron to manage for three books.  The timeframe basically leads directly up to the Thrawn trilogy, with an eighth book picking up right at the end of the third Thrawn book.

Those will probably always be my favorite EU books, they're all pretty enjoyable reads, and based heavily on the old X-Wing and Tie Fighter games.  Stackpole and Zahn (and Allston too, for his part) worked hand-in-hand throughout their books to keep continuity with the characters they shared, and it shows.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Chronocidal

[JB0]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Those will probably always be my favorite EU books, they're all pretty enjoyable reads, and based heavily on the old X-Wing and Tie Fighter games.  Stackpole and Zahn (and Allston too, for his part) worked hand-in-hand throughout their books to keep continuity with the characters they shared, and it shows.

They were the best books.

It also helped that most of the cast was created FOR these books, and it wasn't the Han, Luke, and Leia Power Hour. Aside from being blank slates full of potential instead of status quo tentpoles, there also wasn't a guarantee that everyone would be okay once the lasers started flying so action scenes had meaning.

[Bolt]

Well, Lando has one kill, Luke the first..

In reference to Death Star kills..

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Thom said:

As of now, Rogue Squadron is being set after The Rise of Skywalker. So, no OT side missions, and apparently no Force...

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/12/new-star-wars-movie-patty-jenkins-rogue-squadron-announced-1234603696/

Well, that was a short honeymoon.

RIP Rogue Squadron... you had potential, right up until they decided you had to be part of the sequel trilogy setting.

 

11 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Well, Lando has one kill, Luke the first..

In reference to Death Star kills..

So... Wedge has an assist?  Or two assists?  Or is the first assist Han's?  How are we scoring this?

[Bolt]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, that was a short honeymoon.

RIP Rogue Squadron... you had potential, right up until they decided you had to be part of the sequel trilogy setting.

My first thought was in agreement with this. 

 

11 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So... Wedge has an assist?  Or two assists?  Or is the first assist Han's?  How are we scoring this?

Lol. Ya, good point.  Ideally the squadron gets credit and , therefore, a fearsome reputation.

[JB0]

29 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

So... Wedge has an assist?  Or two assists?  Or is the first assist Han's?  How are we scoring this?

One assist, if I recall the books correctly. He's got an assist on DS2 for blowing the power regulator before Lando blew the core, entitling him to paint a half a Death Star under his canopy.

[Dynaman]

Not all bad - at least in the sequel era there is nothing to mess up.

[Mog]

Considering how so few Rebel pilots survived the first Death Star, I thought the story was that no one had the stones to ask why Wedge had two Death Star killmarks on his X-Wing.

[JB0]

That'd be fair.
I can't check, since I got rid of all my Star Wars books ages ago. Selling the X-Wing books was a mistake.

[Chronocidal]

As I recall, I'm not sure just surviving the battle qualified kill markings, since Tycho had a patch on his jacket/uniform, but no kill mark.  I'd have to dig mine up to see if they mention Wedge having actual markings for two.

[David Hingtgen]

Nah, see, I'm sure Wedge took down at least 1 TIE Fighter during the first Death Star battle.  That TIE then crashed into the surface, damaging the Death Star.  It might not have blown from Luke's shot, if Wedge hadn't have weakened the structure beforehand. 

Thus, at least 2 assists.   (and there's not really much anyone left to contradict his story from the 1st battle)  

[slide]

I would view them more as a Campaign-Badge or Mission-Badge than a Kill-Marking [though Wedge does get credit for a half-Deathstar]

I'll note all the RAF Bomber command Lancasters with a bomb-scoreboard... 

JB663's 100th mission was recorded as 4th November 1944, a raid on Ladbergen - Dormund-Ems Canal, with Flying Officer F E Day in command - his one and only sortie in JB663! The following morning a huge bomb was painted on the aircraft's nose, next to the 99 bombs already there, put there in five neat, slanting rows of 20 and one of 19. Above the impressive scoreboard with wings outstretchede was an eagle, looking much the same as the RAF eagle, above were the words, 'King of the Air'.
In all she flew 111 operational sorties, and statistics compiled on this particular aircraft note that it flew 985 hours, covered 150,000 miles and carried 600 ton of bombs and incendiaries to targets in Germany and France. Its final trip was a seven-hour sortie to a synthetic oil plant at Brux in Western Czechoslovakia.

... however given the accuracy statistics [see Summary of the Butt Report below], these are mission-badges, not actual "We hit something" confirmations:

Quote

 

The Butt Report, released on 18 August 1941, was a report prepared during World War II, revealing the widespread failure of RAF Bomber Command aircraft to hit their targets.

The report was initiated by Lord Cherwell, a friend of Churchill and chief scientific advisor to the Cabinet. David Bensusan-Butt, a civil servant in the War Cabinet Secretariat and an assistant of Cherwell, was given the task of assessing 633 target photos and comparing them with crews' claims. The results, first circulated on 18 August 1941, were a shock to many, though not necessarily to those within the RAF, who knew the difficulty of night navigation and target finding.

Any examination of night photographs taken during night bombing in June and July points to the following conclusions:

1. Of those aircraft recorded as attacking their target, only one in three got within 5 mi (8.0 km).
2. Over the French ports, the proportion was two in three; over Germany as a whole, the proportion was one in four; over the Ruhr it was only one in ten.
3. In the full moon, the proportion was two in five; in the new moon it was only one in fifteen. ...
4. All these figures relate only to aircraft recorded as attacking the target; the proportion of the total sorties which reached within 5 miles is less than one-third. ...

The conclusion seems to follow that only about one-third of aircraft claiming to reach their target actually reached it.

Postwar studies confirmed Butt's assessment, showing that 49% of Bomber Command bombs dropped between May 1940 and May 1941 fell in open country. As Butt did not include those aircraft that did not bomb because of equipment failure, enemy action, weather or which failed to find the target, only about 5% of bombers setting out bombed within 5 mi (8.0 km) of the target.

 

 

TL;DR Wedge is completely within the bounds of reason to have 2 Deathstars painted on his bird.

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by slide

[Chronocidal]

56 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

Nah, see, I'm sure Wedge took down at least 1 TIE Fighter during the first Death Star battle.  That TIE then crashed into the surface, damaging the Death Star.  It might not have blown from Luke's shot, if Wedge hadn't have weakened the structure beforehand. 

Thus, at least 2 assists.   (and there's not really much anyone left to contradict his story from the 1st battle)  

I don't know why, but this idea morphed into a very strange crossover with LOTR, picturing Luke and Wedge arguing over kill counts, and after the first Death Star blows, Wedge pipes over the comm: "That still only counts as one!"

They definitely did award proportional kill markings in certain cases in some of the later books though, I distinctly remember one of the Wraith squad members getting credit for half a super star destroyer for her role in taking out the shields before the battle even began.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Chronocidal

[slide]

2 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I don't know why, but this idea morphed into a very strange crossover with LOTR, picturing Luke and Wedge arguing over kill counts, and after the first Death Star blows, Wedge pipes over the comm: "That still only counts as one!"

Now I want that scene in Star Wars!

[Bolt]

That's a good one, for sure

[Kanedas Bike]

Honestly glad that this is (planned) to be set in the post-The Rise of Skywalker era. 

The the OT trilogy has been done to death and at this point anything done pre-TRoS is essentially a prequel.

In any event I'm choosing to be optimistic. 

-b.

[electric indigo]

If I'm feeling Star Wars nostalgic, I watch the space fight from... Rogue One!

And I want to see the fighters before I have an opinion on Rogue Squadron. 

[no3Ljm]

18 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Honestly glad that this is (planned) to be set in the post-The Rise of Skywalker era. 

The the OT trilogy has been done to death and at this point anything done pre-TRoS is essentially a prequel.

In any event I'm choosing to be optimistic. 

-b.

I'm optimistic this time too, B. 

Though I was hoping that the story they will do is within the OT timeline. Coz I'm more excited every time they reference some tidbits from the OT. Kind of like what they're doing in The Mandalorian series. And I rather have them reference more from the OT (PT is ok for me too) than the ST. 

 

 

Why? Coz they really ruined one of my childhood movies after watching the ST movies.

 

[Kanedas Bike]

39 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

I'm optimistic this time too, B. 

Though I was hoping that the story they will do is within the OT timeline. Coz I'm more excited every time they reference some tidbits from the OT. Kind of like what they're doing in The Mandalorian series. And I rather have them reference more from the OT (PT is ok for me too) than the ST. 

 

 

Why? Coz they really ruined one of my childhood movies after watching the ST movies.

 

Cheers! 

I totally get why people are so put-off (to put it mildly) regarding the ST, I feel the same about 90% of the PT, but there's so, so, so, so, SO, much ground already covered with that era of Star Wars.

-b.

[TangledThorns]

So... I'm wondering if Disney is re-thinking having Patty direct this movie after the cheeseball fest of WW84?

[David Hingtgen]

I must admit, the same worry came to my mind, not long after watching WW84.  (I had HUGE hopes for that movie).   

[Dobber]

I haven’t seen WW84 yet but have heard not so good things. I was wondering when doubts about Patty would start. I just try and remember lots of acclaimed directors have some crap movies under their belts...even after making great films. I haven’t done the leg work yet but what has PJ directed so far? Does she have some more good films under her belt? If studios are so on about female directors I wonder why they seemed to have forgotten about Kathryn Bigelow? I loved Zero Dark Thirty and Hurt Locker.

Chris

[Mog]

They also already have a couple of them that have directed eps of The Mandalorian too in Bryce Dallas Howard and Deborah Chow.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mog

[TangledThorns]

24 minutes ago, Mog said:

They also already have a couple of them that have directed eps of The Mandalorian too in Bryce Dallas Howard and Deborah Chow.

Bryce and Deborah are both competent directors. Like I said before, hiring Patty Jenkins to direct Rogue Squadron stinks of Kathleen Kennedy's doing. 

[jvmacross]

Rouge Squadron.....

[sh9000]

There’s going to be roller skating.

[Kanedas Bike]

Nothing really stands-out regarding Patty Jenkins Directorial credits, a lot of television. The Wonder Woman films are her biggest name gigs.

With that said, she's 1 for 2 in my book which diminishes my hope for this one proportional to her success in making movies that I've enjoyed. And I didn't even have to result to ignorant cracks about dudes in makeup or roller skating to illustrate why I'm currently less secure about the prospect of a "good" Rogue Squadron movie.

-b.

[jvmacross]

It's always amusing seeing twits and a-holes get all bothered over silly posts!

[Kanedas Bike]

56 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

It's always amusing seeing twits and a-holes get all bothered over silly posts!

The hallmark response of the the guilty. Not all jokes are funny my friend - try putting yourself in the shoes of those that might be offended and try to remember that not everyone sees or experiences the world through the same lens as you.

I typically hear "It was just a joke "bro"" from someone who knows that they made a remark they shouldn't have. Just saying.

But by all means carry on about women directors, and women executives and their diabolical agenda to bring social justice (be it through story or through decisions about which creators to work with) to the Clan of Neckbeards.

-b.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Kanedas Bike said:

The hallmark response of the the guilty. Not all jokes are funny my friend - try putting yourself in the shoes of those that might be offended and try to remember that not everyone sees or experiences the world through the same lens as you.

I typically hear "It was just a joke "bro"" from someone who knows that they made a remark they shouldn't have. Just saying.

But by all means carry on about women directors, and women executives and their diabolical agenda to bring social justice (be it through story or through decisions about which creators to work with) to the Clan of Neckbeards.

-b.

Golly....all that from a post?  You think social justice will come about from a movie?...are you a simpleton? 

[Kanedas Bike]

6 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Golly....all that from a post?  You think social justice will come about from a movie?...are you a simpleton? 

No, all that from several posts. But if you want to go there, then lets.

I keep up with the conversations on the board, and when taken as a whole there's a trend of backlash against Kathleen Kennedy (in particular) because of what people perceive as her agenda concerning Star Wars and how she hires, firers, or promotes stories as it relates to women and people of color over what people say "real fans" want. I personally don't see it, meaning if she wants to be more inclusive I think that's a GOOD thing for Star Wars. But that's what gets posted about here, a LOT.

Now do I think movies are a cure all? No of course not. But do I think entertainment (music, TV, books and film) can be used as a vehicle to help promote more diversity? Yes, and that includes hiring women and people in front of and behind the camera. Those things don't automatically equate to a quality product, and if it's trash then call it what it is. I'm not a Patty Jenkins Stan, I thought WW84 was a huge disappointment coming off of WW and that has me concerned for Rogue Squadron, but nothing to do with women, or roller skating or dudes in makeup or The Attack of Kathleen Kennedy.

So back to the point of your post with the X-Wing pilot in makeup titled "Rouge One" which I'm sure you thought was very clever and witty, coming right off of other conversations concerning Kennedy and Patty Jenkins as director I saw it as yet another backhanded comment based on the "real fan" backlash towards Kennedy and this perceived movement towards SJ causes.

Now based on your hostility I'm pretty sure I struck a nerve, maybe because you feel called out and I'm right, or maybe you're pissed because I didn't think your post was funny. In any event, I don't care why you've called me a "twit", "a-hole" or "simpleton" - only that you did. I could respond in kind, but I'm not angry, only amused that you're definitely way more in a twist about this than I am. Classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

But how about this, I dare you to explain your joke to me, explain it just like I'm FIVE YEARS old and need to understand why a dude in makeup is so funny. And do it with, or without the context that I've provided in this post. Explain why you think "Rouge One" would be a thing with Patty Jenkins as director. Has she come out as saying men should wear makeup or be effeminate or something? Was she behind the same sex kiss you keep posting from The Rise of Skywalker? Break it down JV, help me to understand - or do you care to hurl more insults?

And for the record, I'm not a dude who wears makeup, not my thing - but for the sake of being inclusive I thought your post was the very opposite of that idea and that was/is my point.

-b.

*side note I recall your occasional posts about Disney's history of racist entertainment (but from that era they certainly were not the only ones), I've never really been able to tell what your point was so I just didn't bother to engage in a conversation regarding them (whether your intent was "good" of "bad", I simply have no opinion on the matter).

Your post here however, pretty easy to tell you weren't attempting to have a meaningful conversation about women in cinema and what that means in particular for Rogue Squadron. 

[jvmacross]

LMAO...you have way too much time on their hands "bro"!  Hostility?  I posted a few lines...you posted a manifesto! Whose "nerve" got struck?  

Here is the joke broken down for even the dumbest to understand......it was a play on the similarity in the spelling of "rogue" and "rouge"....and it would make no sense to post "Rouge Squadron" with a pic of a "Rogue Squadron" pilot looking like his/her "normal" self (guessing "normal" is no longer an acceptable term to use).....sheesh! 

Even if I had posted it without the pic,  I do not think it would have mattered to you....your "nerve" would have been struck regardless based on your apparent disapproval of the "trend" of opinions....but, seriously, if you do not like my posts then simply ignore them or block me....that is the advice usually given out by the mods.....even a simpleton should be able to understand the benefits of that strategy.....

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

Well... this went downhill quick.

I'll admit, the news that Rogue Squadron is to be set in the sequel trilogy era does not inspire confidence in me.  I'd have a much easier time getting on board if there were a closer connection to Rogue One.  It was the last truly good Star Wars movie, and I'd have liked to see them actually build on it by showing the formation of Rogue Squadron in the wake of the fatal derring-do that led to the Rebellion's first real victory over the Empire.  Setting it in the sequel trilogy era means the connection is just the name and nothing else.  Nobody's really all that invested in the Great Value brand version of the Galactic Empire as antagonists.  They look the part, but they're not half as intimidating as the Empire because their leaders are hot garbage.

(Admittedly, that Snoke telecommutes to run the First Order while in his pajamas and bathrobe feels a lot less silly now than it did a year ago.)

[Kanedas Bike]

6 hours ago, jvmacross said:

LMAO...you have way too much time on their hands "bro"!  Hostility?  I posted a few lines...you posted a manifesto! Whose "nerve" got struck?  

Here is the joke broken down for even the dumbest to understand......it was a play on the similarity in the spelling of "rogue" and "rouge"....and it would make no sense to post "Rouge Squadron" with a pic of a "Rogue Squadron" pilot looking like his/her "normal" self (guessing "normal" is no longer an acceptable term to use).....sheesh! 

Even if I had posted it without the pic,  I do not think it would have mattered to you....your "nerve" would have been struck regardless based on your apparent disapproval of the "trend" of opinions....but, seriously, if you do not like my posts then simply ignore them or block me....that is the advice usually given out by the mods.....even a simpleton should be able to understand the benefits of that strategy.....

 

 

So a play on words? Sure.

Thank goodness you're so high-minded, I'll have plenty of posts to ignore, or call out in the future as well.

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well... this went downhill quick.

I'll admit, the news that Rogue Squadron is to be set in the sequel trilogy era does not inspire confidence in me.  I'd have a much easier time getting on board if there were a closer connection to Rogue One.  It was the last truly good Star Wars movie, and I'd have liked to see them actually build on it by showing the formation of Rogue Squadron in the wake of the fatal derring-do that led to the Rebellion's first real victory over the Empire.  Setting it in the sequel trilogy era means the connection is just the name and nothing else.  Nobody's really all that invested in the Great Value brand version of the Galactic Empire as antagonists.  They look the part, but they're not half as intimidating as the Empire because their leaders are hot garbage.

(Admittedly, that Snoke telecommutes to run the First Order while in his pajamas and bathrobe feels a lot less silly now than it did a year ago.)

Who knows, this could be the movie that saves the Sequel Trilogy for those that really and truly dislike it. I agree that the First Order as a whole (leadership and rank and file) where very much like the parody version of the Empire when looked at across all of the various movies and shows.

-b.

[electric indigo]

7 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

I agree that the First Order as a whole (leadership and rank and file) where very much like the parody version of the Empire when looked at across all of the various movies and shows.

I took that as a vague hint that I'm getting too old for the show.