1/100 VF-0S swap transformation

[Graham]

I think comparing the Yamato VF-0S to the Hasegawa model kit is a little unfair, sorta an apple and oranges type of thing The Hasegawa is a highly detailed non-transforming model kit from a company known for it's aircraft kits, whereas the Yamato is supposed to be a lowish-priced fairly simple toy. As others have mentioned, the anology of comparing the 1/100 VF-0S to the MSiA or Gundam Fix line is quite accurate. Yamato have not claimed that the 1/100 is suposed to be the ultimate VF-0. All they are aiming to ceate is a cheapish, reasonably good looking toy.

Also, the pictures in Dengeki are of an early sculpt only with minimal detail, although personally I think it looks plenty sleek enough and has excellent prortions. Bear in mind that the present sculpt has been refined considerably and has lots more detail added already.

Graham

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

i really don't care for the size...just as long as it has great poseability

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

so graham when can you tell us when the big compolex version is coming out? Is this small scale one suppposed to be HIGH detail or just cheap? perhaps both?(cheap in price)

Also can you fill us in on what transformation is like and complexity? I am hoping the nose is the ONLY thing we have to swap out although it seems the backpack might hav to go also...could b wrong.

[Graham]

so graham when can you tell us when the big compolex version is coming out? Is this small scale one suppposed to be HIGH detail or just cheap? perhaps both?(cheap in price)

Also can you fill us in on what transformation is like and complexity? I am hoping the nose is the ONLY thing we have to swap out although it seems the backpack might hav to go also...could b wrong.

As I mentioned in another thread, from what I've been told it's just the nosecone that gets swapped and the battroid mode neck piece has to be removed for transformation from Battroid mode to Fighter or Gerwalk mode.

The 1/100 version is plenty detailed based on the latest pics I've seen. Sure it's not covered in zillions of rivets like the Hasegawa kit, but the detail is still very good from what I've seen so far.

I haven't handled the prototype toy yet, I've only seen pics, so I'm guessing here, but transformation should be pretty simple. Here's my guess as to how I think it goes, transforming from battroid to fighter mode: -

1) Detach battroid mode nose cone.

2) Detach head and neck peice.

2) Remove legs from battroid nosecone.

3) Unfold and connect chest and back plates together ala VF-1.

4) Attach gunpod to arm.

5) Fold arms together ala VF-1

6) Unfold tailfins & backpack ala VF-1.

7) Attach fighter nosecone.

Attach legs.

9) Attach head to underside of fighter nosecone.

Simple.

Graham

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

WOW thats not bad at all! the main piece is the nose piece huh? Is it the nose section including the cockpit or just the nose section directly ahead of the nose? Also THANK YOU! So simple sounding. I still hold out for bigger version perfect type but this seems good to play with whhile i wait~!

[Myersjessee]

Dr Clay, while I understand your rant, I do think the Hase is totally unfair. I have said this before when people compare the Yamato VF11 to the Club M or SHE kit...or compare the Yamato 1/48 to the Club M Ultimate Strike. The Ultimate Strike blows away Yamato for detail. It has all the guts, engines, tubing, and internal details to the max. Speed breaks, flaps, tons of line are inspired detail....oh, and its a model. You dont touch it...dont do a thing but dispaly it....move it to much and pieces will break off. Its a $300+ kit, that still requires months of work to perfect...not counting supplies, tools, and skill. The Hasegawa VF0 just cost me $28. If the Yammie costs me $40...well, thats not bad at all...$12 more, and I have a completed toy. One I can transform, show my son...and display on my shelf. Would I like perfect transformation? Sure.....but I understand this is business...Yamato has to guage the market...they have to build some capital to invest more capital. Release the "Simple" version now...if it sells, test with an advanced version....etc. We all bitch that the 1/48 is to expensive...that the QRau is to pricey...and too small ( "I want 1/48" ) that the YF19 is taking to long, that the toys are coming out to quickly, that the parts can't be detachable, that the non-detachable parts break (VF11 hips! )...come on now...cut them some slack...they heard some of us...to pricey...so hear is a cheaper one...if we dont like it...then complain...but lets wait to see the final version, and lets compare on merit of it's peers....not models. I would have preferred perfect transformation...I would have prefered 1/60 scale....Ill give them the benefit of the doubt till I see it...even then...Ill buy it....at least one...Bandai isn't doing it...so its them...or their peers...and so far...they don't have any for M0. Love it or leave it...them's the breaks.

[Anubis]

So kind of like the 1/60 VF-1 just you have to take the nosecone and head off first. I can deal with that.

Like I said before, I just hope Gerwalk on the VF-0 is more stable than on the 1/60 VF-1's. I'd like to put my M0 valks like that since they spend so much time in Gerwalk anyway.

Edited January 27, 2004 by Anubis

[tom64ss]

I was only comparing the overall size of a Hasegawa to the size of this toy because Yamato themselves said it was about the size of a 1/72 VF-1.

Really, I'm hoping they sell like hotcakes in Japan, especially if it means a bigger, perfect transformation version will come out sooner. I just can't see myself justifying "import toy cost" over here in the states. At least not for just one varient. We aren't all fortunate enough to live smack dab in the middle of spending heaven like you are Graham.

In the end, it'll really depend on what else Yamato and dare I say it, Toynami (with it's Mospeada toys)is pumping out at the time and how much cash I can allocate. I'm not saying I won't buy it, it does "look" nice so far, but the scale and swapping parts certainly puts it down on my priority list.

[Jolly Rogers]

I really dont get all this super secrecy when it comes to these toys. If they would be more direct with the fans they wont end up with a flop and Yamato and Fans get what they want. We get the toy of our dreams, and they get an ass load of cash. Whats the big deal!

They don't wanna make the Toynami mistake of hyping something before it comes out. Imagine the reaction if they hyped the thing as a fully transformable toy for only ¥3,000 and when reality caught up with them they had to turn around and admit the toy will not be perfect transformation and will cost ¥4,000 instead...

[eugimon]

I'm kinda torn on this one... I like the early sculpt so far and the idea of swapping out some parts is okay-ish with me. I actually prefer the part swap to a chunky swing bar - but if there is a larger/perfect transformation version in the works I think I will be passing. I like the VF-0 design enough to spend the money.

I do wish yamato would keep their toys in the same scale rather than same physical size. It would make my geeky heart happy!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

unlke the 1/60 Vf-1...I imagine the chestplate wont have a hard time locking in with all the arm crap having to lock in too. I think the connection joints will Be ABS. I too hope this sells so well that we get at LEAST a 1/48 Focker 0 and Shin 0D. for x mas ya know? Gotta at least make ONE. They started a macross legacy with that damn line let it not end with a Vf-1!!!!!

BTW i think Dr clay was comparing to hasegawa since it DOES seem yamato wants to go all out on detail with this one since they are already making it highly detailed and making 2 different noses and including a swap out trasnformation...So i think his main argument was detail vs transformation.

[TenScaryMonkeys]

Something silly I thought of...

Everyone who dislikes the concept of Imperfect Transformation seems to REALLY dislike it, and view it as a cop-out.

Everyone else says that they understand the concession, based on Yamato's business needs and the marketplace climate.

Nobody is EXCITED or HAPPY that the toy requires parts-swapping.

Shouldn't Yamato's first concern be to make toys that excite potential buyers?

I hate to sound negative (in reality, I really enjoy a lot of this company's product, and, if I had a kid, he/she wouldn't be going to college thanks to Yamato), but I can't rationalize spending the cash on a toy I'm not excited about. If the idea is to eventually release a bigger, better version (ala the 1/48), why not go straight for the big guns, and skip the toys that no one seems absolutely thrilled to purchase? Why spend the money to develop a toy that isn't going to whip Macross fans into an absolute buying frenzy?

[GreenGuy42]

It's a new concept for Yamato... and Macross fans ARE horridly picky. Hell, I remember people complaining about the 1/48's cockpit..

Give it time. If the details are as soon as Graham claims, hell, this little community might embrace it wholly.

...and for me, it's the PRICE that makes me shiver. If it IS as tall as a VF-11, I'm sure I can let that slide, too... but I DO want a larger scale VF-0 at SOME point.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

yea I really think its the price point that is bassically getting everyone to desire buying it. If it was say 6000 yen I would think everyone would want to disregard it right away and get the inevitable VF-0 perfect trasnsformation. Others like me just want to et it since its cheap compared to other valks and will hold me over till the big bad boy comes.

The only thing that can make nthis the start of a buying frenzy is a

whole line of CHEAP variants.

[Wabbit]

I voted 'B', but it realy depends on the detail (gaps, quality of the material etc.) of the final retail version. The lack of perfect transformation doesn't bother me on this scale.

The reason for Yamato to produce a cheaper VF-0S might be the dissapointing popularity in Japan I heard of occasionaly on this board. To produce a larger scale toy in large quantities would then be a risk, let alone for the larger sculpt that Yamato has to pay for.

[GreenGuy42]

yea I really think its the price point that is bassically getting everyone to desire buying it. If it was say 6000 yen I would think everyone would want to disregard it right away and get the inevitable VF-0 perfect trasnsformation. Others like me just want to et it since its cheap compared to other valks and will hold me over till the big bad boy comes.

The only thing that can make nthis the start of a buying frenzy is a

whole line of CHEAP variants.

Hell no.. if it was 6000 Yen, I'd be supplying my own carrier force...

[Graham]

I of course would also prefer a larger perfect transforming VF-0 toy. However, I'm still pretty excited about the smaller 1/100 version. Heck, when you only collect Macross toys, any new Macross toy is cause for excitment. And from what I've seen of the VF-0S so far, it's looking pretty sweet for the price.

Graham

[Spiff]

Shouldn't Yamato's first concern be to make toys that excite potential buyers? Why spend the money to develop a toy that isn't going to whip Macross fans into an absolute buying frenzy?

Thats what I was trying to say!

I am not complaining at all about the size so much as it just makes no sense to me to have a 4th scale. Am I super anal that I want the Yamato VF-0 to match my other Yamato valks.

Something else to consider is that over there they license toys by the scale! Perhaps somebody got to that scale before Yamato!?

[Spiff]

So if 1/100 is the small cheap scale, what is the BIG BAD BOY scale going to be? 1/60! By the sound of everyone it cant possibly be 1/48 cause that just "too big" It just seems really silly to throw in another scale unless like said before they are gonna make others in this new scale but whats the point? Low price valk line like MSIA? Why not 1/144 then!

If they were to make a 1/48 VF-0 I would buy it for sure even if it was (dare I say it) $200 or more

Once again proving Macross fans will sell thier souls to pay Yamato their blood money for the toys they want in a scale they want.

[DrClay]

I think comparing the Yamato VF-0S to the Hasegawa model kit is a little unfair, sorta an apple and oranges type of thing The Hasegawa is a highly detailed non-transforming model kit from a company known for it's aircraft kits, whereas the Yamato is supposed to be a lowish-priced fairly simple toy. As others have mentioned, the anology of comparing the 1/100 VF-0S to the MSiA or Gundam Fix line is quite accurate. Yamato have not claimed that the 1/100 is suposed to be the ultimate VF-0. All they are aiming to ceate is a cheapish, reasonably good looking toy.

Also, the pictures in Dengeki are of an early sculpt only with minimal detail, although personally I think it looks plenty sleek enough and has excellent prortions. Bear in mind that the present sculpt has been refined considerably and has lots more detail added already.

Graham

I only compare the 1:100 to Hasegawa kit to illustrate the point that, being a toy, the Yamato is already grossly inaccurate... I don't have a problem with that. I DO, however, have a problem with the compromises to its transformation scheme made in order to try and preserve the accuracy that it doesn't have. why not just make the toy as accurate as possible with a perfect transformation? so what if it's a little bit bumbly looking? that would just add to its charm.

BTW the hasegawa kit is non transforming, but as far as I can tell you don't transform the 1:100 either... you take it apart and re-build it into a different mode... take off nose, head, legs... fold tailfin... re-attach head, legs, and nose in new battaliod positions. doesn't seem to me that there's that much transforming goin' on there. and 40$ from japan to my local anime shop will end up costing me 50 or 60 bucks.... not exactly cheap considering what I'd get.

I know the old arguement "don't like it? Don't buy it" and I wish I could pass on this toy, but when everyone passes on it and it's a big flop, Yamato might decide to not produce that other version you're not telling us about... and I will be a sad fanboy.

[imode]

I know the old arguement "don't like it? Don't buy it" and I wish I could pass on this toy, but when everyone passes on it and it's a big flop, Yamato might decide to not produce that other version you're not telling us about... and I will be a sad fanboy.

Well, the greatest way to tell Yamato that you don't like their product is with your wallet. Not buying it sends a stronger message than any whine or rant on an internet forum ever can. Let Yamato pay the price for their lack of vision.

...did that just come out of my mouth?

[DrClay]

I know the old arguement "don't like it? Don't buy it" and I wish I could pass on this toy, but when everyone passes on it and it's a big flop, Yamato might decide to not produce that other version you're not telling us about... and I will be a sad fanboy.

Well, the greatest way to tell Yamato that you don't like their product is with your wallet. Not buying it sends a stronger message than any whine or rant on an internet forum ever can. Let Yamato pay the price for their lack of vision.

...did that just come out of my mouth?

I don't want Yamato to pay a price for making macross zero toys. if they do, they won't make better ones, they won't make any.... there's a reason why the bigger better VF-0 hasn't been officially announced. If we don't buy this crap now, we won't get the good stuff EVER

[Aegis!]

I know the old arguement "don't like it? Don't buy it" and I wish I could pass on this toy, but when everyone passes on it and it's a big flop, Yamato might decide to not produce that other version you're not telling us about... and I will be a sad fanboy.

Well, the greatest way to tell Yamato that you don't like their product is with your wallet. Not buying it sends a stronger message than any whine or rant on an internet forum ever can. Let Yamato pay the price for their lack of vision.

...did that just come out of my mouth?

I don't want Yamato to pay a price for making macross zero toys. if they do, they won't make better ones, they won't make any.... there's a reason why the bigger better VF-0 hasn't been officially announced. If we don't buy this crap now, we won't get the good stuff EVER

Ditto.

If the 1/60 had never been produced and sold well we might have never seen the 1/48s too , though this time around Yamato KNOWS there´s a collector´s market out there and they can sell high quality items to that market. but regardless of this they´ve already invested in the 1/100 M0 toys so if those don´t sell well they´ll definetively loose money and won´t have any resources from which to invest on a perfect VF-0 toy.

[imode]

I know the old arguement "don't like it? Don't buy it" and I wish I could pass on this toy, but when everyone passes on it and it's a big flop, Yamato might decide to not produce that other version you're not telling us about... and I will be a sad fanboy.

Well, the greatest way to tell Yamato that you don't like their product is with your wallet. Not buying it sends a stronger message than any whine or rant on an internet forum ever can. Let Yamato pay the price for their lack of vision.

...did that just come out of my mouth?

I don't want Yamato to pay a price for making macross zero toys. if they do, they won't make better ones, they won't make any.... there's a reason why the bigger better VF-0 hasn't been officially announced. If we don't buy this crap now, we won't get the good stuff EVER

Ditto.

If the 1/60 had never been produced and sold well we might have never seen the 1/48s too , though this time around Yamato KNOWS there´s a collector´s market out there and they can sell high quality items to that market. but regardless of this they´ve already invested in the 1/100 M0 toys so if those don´t sell well they´ll definetively loose money and won´t have any resources from which to invest on a perfect VF-0 toy.

I think some people still think Yamato is made up of a bunch of guys working out of their basement hand-tooling molds. More than once I've heard the "If you don't buy X, then Yamato won't have enough money to make Y", arguement. I have a feeling that Yamato already has plans to make a larger more detailed version whether the 1:100 sells well or not. You're just falling for their marketting schemes. This whole news drought thing is probably less of an issue of "giving ideas to competing companies" but rather an issue of not telling the consumer that better crap will be coming out later so that we'll buy all the little 1:100's now, then be "forced" to buy all the 1:XX whatevers later on as well because our rampant fanboyism starts getting in the way of common sense.

Edited January 27, 2004 by imode

[ewilen]

If the 1/60 had never been produced and sold well we might have never seen the 1/48s too , though this time around Yamato KNOWS there´s a collector´s market out there and they can sell high quality items to that market. but regardless of this they´ve already invested in the 1/100 M0 toys so if those don´t sell well they´ll definetively loose money and won´t have any resources from which to invest on a perfect VF-0 toy.

It's hard to say whether the VF-0 is a bad idea or not. I don't think that the money it nets or loses is going to affect Yamato's ability to make further toys--it's not like they have to build up capital in order to finance other toys. With the possible exception of the 1/1 helmets and the 1/60 monster, I doubt Yamato thinks of any of their toys as "expenses" which need to be subsidized by other, genuinely profitable toys. So as long as the VF-0 doesn't flop and send the company into bankruptcy, I wouldn't worry about it in that sense.

I see the 1/100 VF-0 as serving four strategic purposes:

• Make money in its own right, or at least not lose too much money.
  
• Generate buzz and "synergy" with the M0 OAV to expand interest in future products beyond the existing hardcore collector base. Note: WITHOUT cannibalizing sales of future "high grade" products.
  
• Test the market to see if enough interest exists to justify more M0 toys.
  
• Test the market to see if the "cheap" format is a winner.
  

I personally don't think I will want to buy the 1/100 VF-0 at full retail+import costs due to the scale and transformation method. I couldn't care less about diecast. Also, I'm less interested in "perfect transformation" per se than I am in transformation that represents the transformation method shown in the animation. That's why the 1/60 VF-1's leg-swap doesn't bother me--to my mind, it's a reasonable representation of the fact that the "real" VF-1's legs completely change their attachment point during transformation. But I dislike the leg/nose swap idea for the VF-0 because the "real thing" uses swing bars.

But in spite of my personal opinion, I think the 1/100 VF-0 isn't a bad marketing idea since it seems likely to achieve the strategic purposes listed above.

Edited January 27, 2004 by ewilen

[DrClay]

I don't think Yamato will go out of business or be unable to make better macross zero toys if I don't buy this crap... I think that if yamato loses any money on macross zero toys they will not make any more macross zero toys due to the fact that they figure they won't be profitable. they'll stick to making little anime girl statues, escaflownaes, and other crap... they'll be fine. WE, however, will be left with VF-1s beyond exhaustion and then no more macross toys.

The ONLY message I can send to Yamato with my wallet now is: "Don't make any macross toys other than VF-1's"

that is NOT the message I want to send. Yamato has (on this site) specifically stated that they will test the waters on non-vf-1 toys, that all plans of making enemy mecha, mac +, mac 0 toys are based on preliminary sales of test toys. I personally can't wait for that yf-19fp... but where is it? well, how well did the yf-21fp and vf-11fp sell? I know alot of people here have them, but alot of people don't. In fact, the reaction here was to complain about them. even Graham's review bashed the yf-21fp. and we're the nice bbs! what did the Japanese boards say about those toys? could it have been as negative as their reaction to the 1:100? And now look, where is the YF-19fp? how many months have gone by without us hearing ANY news whatsoever about it? Will it come out at all? Yamato is alive and well, but I am toyless

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

yea really where is all the info?We havent heard about the 19 since like july or something. It amazes me how the secretive qrau was shwn a lot earlier than the YF19Fp hell we havent even seen the damn thing yet! As for the 0 I am jsut excited we got something but like manyh of you i want a perfect trasnformation and it is a holdover for me.

It would be awwesome if we got more updates in terms of news. I mean we havent got a newsletter in count this... a YEAR! remember back in da day when a newsletter was almost monthly? Not that im coimplainning iom just saying tit woul be nice.., come on yamato let up...not lke bandais trying to compte anyways.

[Jolly Rogers]

You people seem to have forgotten that the 19FP is gonna be a complete resculpt, unlike the 21FP and 11Fb, which were quickie reissues with the FP add-ons.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

yes and the VF-0 was made from scratch hence the fact that a lot of us wonder why we hear of the Vf-0 before the YF19. BTW wasnt Yf19Fp announced before the plans for the 0 were?

[GreenGuy42]

yes and the VF-0 was made from scratch hence the fact that a lot of us wonder why we hear of the Vf-0 before the YF19.  BTW wasnt Yf19Fp announced before the plans for the 0 were?

So were the 1/60 upgrade kits, but they're dead now.

I think this is why Yamato's being a lot more reserved with leaking out info... Wait and see, man... wait and see...

Edited January 28, 2004 by GreenGuy42

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

what gets me is who are they afraid of? Sure corporate espionage exists but who is a threat? kaiyodo and their trade figures? I douibt it. Toynami? nope not a chance. Bandai is the only culprit but everyone doubts them at this point unless it has gundam written all over it. not like toynami is trying to secure a licnse for making VF-0 toy. NIwther is bandai...or am i right? The onyl threat I would see is bandai and they havent done anything publicly talking about macross toys lately. UNless they are behind the scens making a valk line from scratch behind everyones back.

[Mechafan]

what gets me is who are they afraid of? Sure corporate espionage exists but who is a threat? kaiyodo and their trade figures? I douibt it. Toynami? nope not a chance. Bandai is the only culprit but everyone doubts them at this point unless it has gundam written all over it. not like toynami is trying to secure a licnse for making VF-0 toy. NIwther is bandai...or am i right? The onyl threat I would see is bandai and they havent done anything publicly talking about macross toys lately.

I agree the have no competion for this so they should take full advantage. Toynami making one ha ha never and Bandai to busy with Gundam to care. The only thing else is the Hasegawa model which does not transform.

[GobotFool]

what gets me is who are they afraid of? Sure corporate espionage exists but who is a threat? kaiyodo and their trade figures? I douibt it.  Toynami? nope not a chance.  Bandai is the only culprit but everyone doubts them at this point unless it has gundam written all over it.  not like toynami is trying to secure a licnse for making  VF-0 toy.  NIwther is bandai...or am i right?  The onyl threat I would see is bandai and they havent done anything publicly talking about macross toys lately. UNless they are behind the scens making a valk line from scratch behind everyones back.

Gundam or SOC I like both lines to a degree, but damnit bandai, a little variety never hurt anyone!

Edited January 28, 2004 by GobotFool

[Nani?!]

what gets me is who are they afraid of? Sure corporate espionage exists but who is a threat? kaiyodo and their trade figures? I douibt it. Toynami? nope not a chance. Bandai is the only culprit but everyone doubts them at this point unless it has gundam written all over it. not like toynami is trying to secure a licnse for making VF-0 toy. NIwther is bandai...or am i right? The onyl threat I would see is bandai and they havent done anything publicly talking about macross toys lately. UNless they are behind the scens making a valk line from scratch behind everyones back.

I agree with shin. Yamato is way too tight lipped considering there really isn't a huge threat to their business.

That being said, YF 19FP news & pictures please!

[Aegis!]

what gets me is who are they afraid of? Sure corporate espionage exists but who is a threat? kaiyodo and their trade figures? I douibt it.  Toynami? nope not a chance.  Bandai is the only culprit but everyone doubts them at this point unless it has gundam written all over it.  not like toynami is trying to secure a licnse for making  VF-0 toy.  NIwther is bandai...or am i right?  The onyl threat I would see is bandai and they havent done anything publicly talking about macross toys lately.

I agree the have no competion for this so they should take full advantage. Toynami making one ha ha never and Bandai to busy with Gundam to care. The only thing else is the Hasegawa model which does not transform.

I think they´re more afraid of consumers themselves rather than competitive companies like Bandai.

What I mean by this is the simple example of the 1/100 M0 toys , if we were sure that there were better toys coming our way a lot earlier than the 1/100 figures were released then nonone would even think of buying them and all of their effort and monetary investment in the 1/100 figures would just be ruined and they could come one step away from total chaos (financialy speaking).

We could very well assume they´ll make bigger and better M0 toys but...could we really take that risk ? specially concidering they won´t have the financial back-up they´re expecting from the 1/100 figures if we don´t buy them and just wait for something better ...in other words , is Yamato really able to justify (both financially and morally ) the development of bigger & better M0 toys even if the 1/100s sell like crap ? or are they actually counting on the success of those toys to justify the investment on the bigger ones ?