Blade Runner: Black Lotus Anime Series

[sh9000]

https://in.ign.com/blade-runner-black-lotus/149316/news/adult-swim-shares-two-stills-from-blade-runner-black-lotus-anime-series

[claude grant]

"A new life awaits you in the Off World colonies!  The chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!"

Looking forward to this.

[Bolt]

Awesome!

[TangledThorns]

Whaat? Should be good!

[M'Kyuun]

Looks promising.  So is Cartoon Network actually going to broadcast it, or are you going to have to pay for a subscription to Crunchyroll to watch it? CN don't have the best record when it comes to animation.

[TangledThorns]

Is it me or does this look awful? The animation looks dated by twenty years IMHO.

 

 

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

Alita: Battle Angel in Blade Runner crossover? XD

[tekering]

2 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Is it me or does this look awful? The animation looks dated by twenty years IMHO.

Well, The Animatrix was 2003, so... that's just about right.

I wouldn't say "awful," though.  Just... derivative.

[Hikuro]

Hm yeah super dated….that’s pretty sad. 

[technoblue]

2 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Is it me or does this look awful? The animation looks dated by twenty years IMHO.

What. Was. That?

I'm not bothered by the animation so much as the teaser itself. After watching it, I'm worried about the show's direction. I mean, sure, the cyberpunk visuals are there---dated---but everything else seems off key for familiar Blade Runner media. The choice of music is odd. The dialog is camp. And the story that's teased...boy...I'm not sure what to think about it. What was shown seems very much a paint-by-numbers plot with some special combat replicant that has lost her memory? I have no idea how they are going to get that to jive in this universe. I guess I was expecting more depth.

[kajnrig]

It doesn't look bad so much as... not Blade Runner. Blade Runner's look has always been dystopic Los Angeles more than anything else, This looks like it would fit right in with the likes of Ghost in the Shell or, yes, Alita and Matrix. Or Big Hero 6. Or any number of Future Tokyo settings, which honestly has gotten a bit stale by now.

[Bolt]

It's not the most polished animation. But  I'll take it !

The setting is right.  And the music isn't over the top bad. Maybe not as good as those old time background crooners. (Like the old melody playing in the background while they're cleaning up the striper off the street ,after Deckard retires her..)

Edited July 26, 2021 by Bolt

[jealous37]

I'm looking forward to the story, but the animation, like others have said, definitely looks outdated.

[technoblue]

The animation reminds me of the cutscenes from the Westwood Blade Runner adventure game that was released on PC back in 1997. That was good for its time but even that game is getting a remaster from Nightdive Studios in the near future.

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

The setting is right.  And the music isn't over the top bad. Maybe not as good as those old time background crooners. (Like the old melody playing in the background while they're cleaning up the striper off the street ,after Deckard retires her..)

Almost all of the music in the original movie was composed by Vangelis, even the songs. The one exception is Rachel's Song which Vangelis has a co-credit for with Welsh vocalist Mary Hopkin. And that highlights my point. Vangelis set a particular tone for Scott's original film.

In Villeneuve's sequel, Blade Runner 2049, there were two composers: Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfisch. The complete soundtrack includes songs from other musicians too like Presley and Sinatra. Even so, all the new musical elements from the second film connected back thematically to the original. To me, the melodic consistency between the two films is terrific.

Seriously, the unique instrumental pieces intermixed with anachronistic songs help to create that thick cyberpunk tech noir atmosphere and for me that really aids in the overall world building of the two films. 

The animated teaser isn't giving me this same sound direction. The pop is definitely a bold change but it just doesn't sit right. Like others noted, it makes this whole teaser feel less Blade Runner and more GitS, Appleseed, or Alita. Then again, it is just a teaser so maybe Adult Swim and Crunchyroll are saving the added musical context and cool instrumentals for the actual series debut?  Eh, I have my doubts. For more of an apples to apples comparison, Blackout 2022, as short as it is, does a much better job.

Edited July 26, 2021 by technoblue

[M'Kyuun]

45 minutes ago, technoblue said:

The animation reminds me of the cutscenes from the Westwood Blade Runner adventure game that was released on PC back in 1997. That was good for its time but even that game is getting a remaster from Nightdive Studios in the near future.

Almost all of the music in the original movie was composed by Vangelis, even the songs. The one exception is Rachel's Song which Vangelis has a co-credit for with Welsh vocalist Mary Hopkin. And that highlights my point. Vangelis set a particular tone for Scott's original film.

In Villeneuve's sequel, Blade Runner 2049, there were two composers: Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfisch. The complete soundtrack includes songs from other musicians too like Presley and Sinatra. Even so, all the new musical elements from the second film connected back thematically to the original. To me, the melodic consistency between the two films is terrific.

Seriously, the unique instrumental pieces intermixed with anachronistic songs help to create a thick sense of atmosphere and for me that really aids in the overall world building of the two films. 

The animated teaser isn't giving me this same sound direction. The pop is definitely a bold change but it just doesn't sit right. Like others noted, it makes this whole teaser feel less Blade Runner and more GitS, Appleseed, or Alita. Then again, it is just a teaser so maybe Adult Swim and Crunchyroll are saving the added musical context and cool instrumentals for the actual series debut?  Eh, I have my doubts. 

Vangelis definitely created a unique sound which, along with the visuals, created a beautiful yet bleak mood for the film. I honestly don't recall the music from 2049, although I own it and have seen it a few times now. Guess I need to watch it again.

The comparison with GitS and Alita is apt (haven't seen enough Appleseed to compare). The only thing in the trailer that gives it away as a Blade Runner tie-in is the Spinner landing scene. Otherwise, it could be any action movie with a female martial artist. Hell, it could be Kung-Fu, the Animation. They simply don't create the right atmosphere, IMHO, although they're trying with all the Asian sign imagery. But the music played a large part in the original for setting the mood, and that's lacking here.

All things being equal, if I get a chance to watch it, I will, at least to give it a chance, as trailer material is often choppy and out of context. Seeing a full ep will give a better impression of how they approach the world.

[Sanity is Optional]

The art is fine, except for the character models, which are severely dated and lacking in texture.

The music doesn't fit.

The plot feels much more like an Alita ripoff than Blade Runner, and the teaser points to it being somewhat combat-heavy.

 

All in all, not a promising first look, but still room to turn it around.

[TangledThorns]

7 hours ago, technoblue said:

The animation reminds me of the cutscenes from the Westwood Blade Runner adventure game that was released on PC back in 1997. That was good for its time but even that game is getting a remaster from Nightdive Studios in the near future.

 

Yes! It was like it was copy & pasted from the game. Though it's dated AF I do recommend playing the game if you hadn't yet.

[technoblue]

3 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Yes! It was like it was copy & pasted from the game. Though it's dated AF I do recommend playing the game if you hadn't yet.

It's very easy to recommend and I love the alternate endings.

The original game works with ScummVM on new PCs too.  

[TangledThorns]

27 minutes ago, technoblue said:

It's very easy to recommend and I love the alternate endings.

The original game works with ScummVM on new PCs too.  

Yeah and the story was pretty good! Far more interesting than this 'anime' too.

 

[JetJockey]

Trailer definitely reminds me of Ghost in the Shell. Which is a good thing to me because I watched one episode of the new Ghost in the Shell and didn't like it that much. Still the animation doesn't look as good as that last Blade Runner short. But I can't wait for this show. Blade Runner seems to be kind of popular now with the comics too.

[kajnrig]

9 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Yeah and the story was pretty good! Far more interesting than this 'anime' too.

 

The show hasn't even debuted yet. ????

Forgot to add that despite my misgivings about the setting's aesthetic, I think the show looks interesting enough, and I'm not seeing the issues with the CGI that everyone else seems to be. And the action looks pretty slick at times, actually. I'm still not convinced that it has enough Blade Runner DNA coursing through its veins to warrant the brand name, but otherwise... yeah, it looks good.

[Dynaman]

Looks good enough to give it a try.

[M'Kyuun]

On 7/26/2021 at 8:06 PM, JetJockey said:

Trailer definitely reminds me of Ghost in the Shell. Which is a good thing to me because I watched one episode of the new Ghost in the Shell and didn't like it that much. Still the animation doesn't look as good as that last Blade Runner short. But I can't wait for this show. Blade Runner seems to be kind of popular now with the comics too.

To go slightly askance, GitS: 2045 is kind of a slow starter, at least for me. The story gets better, but you have to slog through those first few eps. The sole American on the team lives up to the American cliche: loud, arrogant, stupid, and incompetent.  It's slightly annoying, as is the throwaway character.

Anyway, the mouth animations bugged me the whole way through; they just looked bad. The story was ok, but SAC did it much better, IMHO.  

As to the new Blade Runner, I think they would have been further ahead to play up the noir aspects, if any, that the show might offer. That's always been the atmosphere of Blade Runner, and the trailer feels more like an ep of Kung-Fu: 2070 than an offshoot of Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.

[kajnrig]

5 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Anyway, the mouth animations bugged me the whole way through; they just looked bad. The story was ok, but SAC did it much better, IMHO.  

A couple basic questions because I still plan to watch it despite that goofy clip I was shown a while back:

1) Mouth animations as in when they're speaking dialogue, or just in general?

2) If for spoken dialogue, were they animated to the Japanese or English dub?

3) If animated for Japanese, did you watch in English? And vice versa.

[technoblue]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:33 PM, kajnrig said:

The show hasn't even debuted yet. ????

Well, the 'anime' criticism is aimed squarely at the trailer since that's all we have to review at the moment.  The examples referenced are just showing how other Blade Runner media stick to the cyberpunk tech noir formula. I don't know what else to say if that isn't coming across.

With regard to Blade Runner: Black Lotus, I'll be more than happy to rescind my criticism if the series turns out to be better than what was presented in the trailer. So, yeah, I'll give it a go too. I'm just not going in with lauded expectations. Mine will be quite tempered. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by technoblue
typo

[kajnrig]

48 minutes ago, technoblue said:

The examples referenced are just showing how other Blade Runner media stick to the cyberpunk tech noir formula. I don't know what else to say if that isn't coming across. 

Ah, I see. It seemed to me you were saying the story of the Westwood games were better than the story of this show, hence my confusion because this show obviously hasn't come out yet and its story is unknown... unless you have some privileged information.  I gotcha now.

[technoblue]

4 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Ah, I see. It seemed to me you were saying the story of the Westwood games were better than the story of this show, hence my confusion because this show obviously hasn't come out yet and its story is unknown... unless you have some privileged information.  I gotcha now.

It's all good. I'm still waiting like everyone else, but I'm also crossing my fingers that this series sticks its landing.

[M'Kyuun]

3 hours ago, kajnrig said:

A couple basic questions because I still plan to watch it despite that goofy clip I was shown a while back:

1) Mouth animations as in when they're speaking dialogue, or just in general?

2) If for spoken dialogue, were they animated to the Japanese or English dub?

3) If animated for Japanese, did you watch in English? And vice versa.

1.) When they're speaking 2.) Most likely Japanese, but I don't the think the animation followed actual lip movements. I can't say with any certainty, as I don't speak fluent Japanese. 3.) I watched it in English on Netflix.

[TangledThorns]

15 hours ago, technoblue said:

The examples referenced are just showing how other Blade Runner media stick to the cyberpunk tech noir formula. I don't know what else to say if that isn't coming across.

 

I wouldn't call the BLADE RUNNER films cyberpunk IMHO. I think future noir, just like the title of the 'making of' book is, fits the genre best. Cyberpunk is more hacker involved, eg Johnny Mnemonic. The anime does have cyberpunk vibe to it though and is what is working against itself. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Future-Noir-Revised-Updated-Making/dp/0062699466/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=blade+runner+noir&qid=1627566433&sr=8-1

Edited July 29, 2021 by TangledThorns

[electric indigo]

With it's visualization of futuristic urban dystopia and the merging of tech & biology, Blade Runner is very much Cyberpunk avant-le-lettre IMO.

[technoblue]

5 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

I wouldn't call the BLADE RUNNER films cyberpunk IMHO. I think future noir, just like the title of the 'making of' book is, fits the genre best. Cyberpunk is more hacker involved, eg Johnny Mnemonic. The anime does have cyberpunk vibe to it though and is what is working against itself. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Future-Noir-Revised-Updated-Making/dp/0062699466/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=blade+runner+noir&qid=1627566433&sr=8-1

You won't get an argument from me. My understanding is that future noir and tech noir are considered the same sub-genre of science fiction.

https://www.ylem.org/Journal/2003Iss02vol23.pdf

But I also see such classifications as being highly nuanced and that's why I don't mind adding cyberpunk into the mix as well. The movie presents a bleak dystopian future and the replicants are close enough to humans in their biology/manufacture to create moral sticking points for the audience. The director's cut even throws into question whether Deckard is a replicant hunting down his own kind. Neat creative ideas like that get me thinking.

On the subject of hacking, an argument could be made that the Voight-Kampff test is a method Blade Runners use to hack a replicant's defensive programming.

Anyway, just a thought. 

[TangledThorns]

12 minutes ago, technoblue said:

You won't get an argument from me. My understanding is that future noir and tech noir are considered the same sub-genre of science fiction.

 

Tech Noir is also a club on Pico Boulevard in Los Angeles

[electric indigo]

I just happened to check Ridley Scott's IMDB page coming from the House of Gucci trailer, and was surprised to find out that he's attached to Black Lotus as an executive producer.

Even more intriguing was the lineup of other projects he's currently involved in: An untitled Alien prequel, Alien TV series, Gladiator 2, and a David movie (the guy from the Bible, not the android), Napoleon (with Joaquin Phoenix as the lead), and Queen & Country with Sylvia Hoeks (Blade Runner 2049).

[TangledThorns]

22 hours ago, electric indigo said:

I just happened to check Ridley Scott's IMDB page coming from the House of Gucci trailer, and was surprised to find out that he's attached to Black Lotus as an executive producer.

Even more intriguing was the lineup of other projects he's currently involved in: An untitled Alien prequel, Alien TV series, Gladiator 2, and a David movie (the guy from the Bible, not the android), Napoleon (with Joaquin Phoenix as the lead), and Queen & Country with Sylvia Hoeks (Blade Runner 2049).

Yeah, Ridley Scott executive produced 2049 which probably explains why it was so good, lol. Seriously, Ridley Scott is one of my all time favorite directors but he sucks at making follow up films like he did with the ALIEN prequels. I just re-watched ALIEN and it's still so good! I'd lean that ALIEN is slightly more timeless than ALIENS is. I hope I didn't derail this thread, lol.

But yeah, Ridley's schedule is filled with so many movies and I guess he's trying to complete as many as he can while he still around as he's 83 years old.

 

[technoblue]

Ok. A much better opening than that trailer.