Graham's clarification - Yamato VF-0S

[ewilen]

Links don't appear very often, and when they do, it's usually links to here or porn sites.

What do you mean, "or"? Isn't MW a porn site?

[Sumdumgai]

I'm just happy that if I decide to get a VF-0 the shipping will be cheaper because of the lack of die-cast That's not even mentioning the lack of all the problems of metal: scratched paint, wear on plastic, different balance, etc. <_<

You want MW Porn, here you go!!!

edit: The Low Vis in all it's glory! Uncensored version in the Toy review section of Macross World!

Edited January 28, 2004 by Sumdumgai

[JELEINEN]

yes i understand this line is made for people in mass market. PErhaps to even take on gundam FIX. it really does seem like a Gundam FIX like line. From then materials to trasnformations.(mninmal swapping as een on zeta plus).

WHile I do agree this is more of an action figure than a trasnforming robot toy, Yamato must not forget what market brought it the most profit. Did a lot of kids in Japan know what the hell the VF-1 was>when the 1/60 came out? compared to the YF19 I think NOT. Maybe later on once the oldies and adults educated them on it. yamato came across to us as a collectors company. Making stuff for mass market is fine but to disregard us in favor of more profit...? thats called SELLING out. Sure it might make good business sense but we the OLDER FANS are the very backbone that kept the macross toy line for yamato running. BY the likes of it it seems like a lot of the japanese fans feel the same way as they are now comparing this to a banpresto. NOw the onyl way to prove that they are not disregarding the older fanbase of which it ORIGINALLY marketed to with te inception of he first macross plus toys, is to announce a collecters edition 1/48 or 1/60 VF-0 eventually down the line. Sure my opinion may not reflect the entirety or majority of this board but hey I think its a good call if they announce a big ass one is coming down the line. We all know for sure this 1/100 line is more better for variants and such and that the high end /48 should only be the fan favs since copsts to manufacture and design owuld of course be much higher than that of the 1/100.

This is funny stuff. You amuse me.

They're a business, not a charity. By definition, it's their job to sell out.

[imode]

Links don't appear very often, and when they do, it's usually links to here or porn sites.

What do you mean, "or"? Isn't MW a porn site?

Maybe if Graham had his way...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

LOL linked here huh?Damn maybe we get more info SOMETIMES then the japanese BBS> hMm how bout we trade p[orn for MW info. Both sides are satisfied and hey we all enjoy what we get no?

[Air Elijah]

The thing that still weirds me out is that this is not a small toy. If it was 1/144 I wouldn't mind at all. As big as the 1/100 toy will be already, it makes me wonder whether they would ever make even a 1/72 scale.

It seems that would be HUGE. It would be a travesty of the highest order if this scale was the only one produced there was no perfect transformation version down the line.

It will be a minor travesty if this 1/100 toy is not suitably cheap.

[DrClay]

amen

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

guys i can understand you guys saying "oh this thing woul be huge in a biger scale etc etc" but in reality thats what most of us want! If yamatos CEo can say "hey lets makea big ass monster in 1/100 scale..o wauit freak iut lets make it 1/60!" and lave his workers saying "wtf?" and then hee says "no it shall be done!" and then froating head comes out of nowhere and satys the same thing...and price it at 45000 yen...and thenn makea 1/60 qrau bigger than a 1/48 VF-1...can you guys really think its IMPOSSIBLE to makea Vf-0 in 1/48 scale? Its jsut length guys! Its LONGER in fighter a little wider and a bit taller thna teh Vf-1 in scale...but come on! Its not a giant like you all think!

Hell I think it can be done. For me screw 1/600if they make it perfect transformation in that scale its a must buy but i really see no reason why they CANT make the jump to 1/48. The only thing TOO big for that scale is an SDF-1. come on people if we can accept a qrau and a monsterous monster why not a 1/48 VF-0?

[Valk-1S]

If they do make a 1/48 scale VF-0 it might cost quite a bit, maybe around the $200 mark. Not to mention for the VF-1 line Yamato was able to make 7 variants with one mould not counting the different heads, plus there's still a possibility for other variants. As for the VF-0, so far u can only produce 2 variants (ie VF-0A & VF-0S for one mould and modifying that mould to make the VF-0D Shin & VF-0D normal).

Of course I wouldn't mind they do it but Yamato may not want to take the risk. Also Q-Rau doesn't transform so they are able to make it big, while keeping the cost down as the parts may not be as complex as a VF-1 or VF-0.

Edited January 29, 2004 by Valk-1S

[GreenGuy42]

Shin, IIRC, the Monster was sent back to be redesigned, including scale...

As much as I would like to have a 1/48 VF-0, the feasability of the toy would be in question. The cost would be high (as much as a VF-1 1/48 WITH FP armor) for a toy that's almost identical...

For me (and a LOT of MW college students) that's a little rich for my tastes at the moment.... So, yeah, I'd say "cool," but I'd never buy it.

[Guppy]

how did I miss this thread??

I almost wet my pants with fear when I read "PVC" .. but if graham says it looks good then that's ok with me.

But with all those removable parts, this toy reminds me of LEGO!

just kidding. I can't wait for it to be released.

And Graham, did you ask the yamato important-types if you can release any more secret information?

[Myersjessee]

I want to echo Green Guys comments....and Im not a college student....but I have seen prices go from $50-$60 to $80-$90, to $120...and now items like the QRau and Monster top the $150-$300 range...I am not a big fan of bigger is better...its not the size of your toy, but the detail and quality of it (and how you use it! ) Anyways...I'm patiently awaiting the final product...if it is nice the price reduction will be appreciated.

[Rune]

Just from my standpoint I do not mind the size if it means it will be a little less expensive. As Jesse stated the price reduction will help me (and I'm sure others) afford different toys beyond the macross fold. ie Transformers alternators ect.... And like all I am hopeful that the final product will be up to par for the price it reflects.To date I have had very little to no problem with any of my Yamato lines whether 1/72 , 1/60 or 1/48.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

though i preach 1.48....as lonmg as the toy is big and has perfect trasnformation later on then word i shall buy. I am a college student too i know that my buys have to be very very selevctive btu i would shel out for a 0. its jsust so awesome of a design

[GreenGuy42]

though i preach 1.48....as lonmg as the toy is big and has perfect trasnformation later on then word i shall buy. I am a college student too i know that my buys have to be very very selevctive btu i would shel out for a 0.  its jsust so awesome of a design

something I DID think of, though...

Cost DOES derive from engineering and labor, no...?

So, the 1/48 VF-1 already has a transformation system that would be easily adaptable to the VF-0. Regardless of the size difference, perhaps the need to do less R&D would make a small difference... It's doubtful, but possible.

Edit: I DO like 1.48s a hell of a lot, not so much for size, but due to that scale being easy to find among other model aircraft.... I've always wanted to buy models of the real world valk countparts, and have 'em fly point to my Macross goodness...

Edited January 29, 2004 by GreenGuy42

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

if they make a 1/48 Vf-0 most of the work is already done for them...

there is no need to figure out "oh how in hell do we make a chestshield internally and make the chestplate flat with the fuesalage unlike on the bandais? hmmm"

the chest this time merely has to be pushed up and slid down over the canopy. The only potential obstacles I fear are the swing bars shown in the anime,. yamato sort of broke rules with the 1.48 but in the end in battroid mode, the leg and hip joints are accurate to the line art...sure the swing bar on the Vf-1 implemented on the 1/48 toy never existed in kawamoris original linearts but does anyone care? most likely no since THe result is the most accurate Vf-1 toy not to mention thee best aesthetically.

I have a feeling the Vf-0 swing bar system for the potential 1/48 toy is actually a piece of cake for yamato. If they make it 1/48 scale now that i saw how HUGE the thing is compared to a VF-1...I dont think we have to worry about THING Swing bars. If anything they might be the only diecast pieces on the toy and for that matter on a 1/48 scale toy they would be pretty thick. ANd knowing yamato, hidden as well. The swing bars i feel can be done canon wise on a 1/48 toy VF-0 toy with no compromises...the size lets it be done.

Everything else like the arms and such and the backpack transform exactly like the VF-1. If they make a removeable nose cone for radar maybe they can make 2 nose cones...one short and one long..in other words for those who are anal on accuracy one for battroid if you wish and one for fighter. With the amount of money yamato will potentially get form the 1/100 line and the sales of the already successful Vf-1 /60 and 1/48 lines, I am sure yamato has enough cashflow to makea 1/48 full variable 1/48 at a decent price(150-170$). The argument of being too costly is almost out the window since its not catered to children...after all who was the dancougar catered to kids? nope adults my friends people our age.

[Sumdumgai]

if they make a 1/48 Vf-0 most of the work is already done for them...

there is no need to figure out "oh how in hell do we make a chestshield internally and make the chestplate flat with the fuesalage unlike on the bandais? hmmm"

the chest this time merely has to be pushed up and slid down over the canopy.  The only potential obstacles I fear are the swing bars shown in the anime,. yamato sort of broke rules with the 1.48 but in the end in battroid mode, the leg and hip joints are accurate to the line art...sure the swing bar on the Vf-1 implemented on the 1/48 toy never existed in kawamoris original linearts but does anyone care? most likely no since THe result is the most accurate Vf-1 toy not to mention thee best aesthetically.

I have a feeling the Vf-0 swing bar system for the potential 1/48 toy is actually a piece of cake for yamato.  If they make it 1/48 scale now that i saw how HUGE the thing is compared to a VF-1...I dont think we have to worry about THING Swing bars.  If anything they might be the only diecast pieces on the toy and for that matter on a 1/48 scale toy they would be pretty thick.  ANd knowing yamato, hidden as well.  The swing bars i feel can be done canon wise on a 1/48 toy VF-0 toy with no compromises...the size lets it be done. 

Everything else like the arms and such and the backpack transform exactly like the VF-1.  If they make a removeable nose cone for radar maybe they can make 2 nose cones...one short and one long..in other words for those who are anal on accuracy one for battroid if you wish and one for fighter.  With the amount of money yamato will potentially get form the 1/100 line and the sales of the already successful Vf-1 /60 and 1/48 lines, I am sure yamato has enough cashflow to makea  1/48 full variable 1/48 at a decent price(150-170$).  The argument of being too costly is almost out the window since its not catered to children...after all who was the dancougar catered to kids?  nope adults  my friends people our age.

Those are some damned good ideas!

The swingbars could be attached to that T-bar likeon the 1/48 VF-1, and be more or less decorative rather than functional. The swingbars wouldn't have the same risk of breakage as if the legs relied solely on the swingbar alone.

I love that change the nose-cone idea.

Only time will tell to see if they do release bigger VF-0 valks. And a 1/48 VF-11, AHEM Yamato, hint-hint, wink-wink, knudge-knudge, ya know what I mean?

edit: YF-21 and YF-19 in 1/48 scale please!

Edited January 29, 2004 by Sumdumgai

[Sildani]

While you're doing that, nudge 'em for a 1/48 YF-21. Please?

[Draykov]

For me (and a LOT of MW college students) that's a little rich for my tastes at the moment...

There's an MW college?!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Hmm now that i think about it the trasnformation as i noted above isnt really all that complex over the Vf-1...yamato just has to figure out what to do with the swing bars. and thats it. BY how ASTRONOMICALLY huge a lot of you thinkit is..the swing bars can be implemented and be durable at the same time. since in a sense they would be HUGE enough to be durable yet hidden. at 1/72 scale something the lieks of the 1./48 trasnformation has to be done.

[imode]

IMHO-- even if it's line-art accurate, swing-bars = fugly.

[Aegis!]

You know what , all this ¨I want 1/48 - insert valk here-¨ is becoming more of a lame trend than a real argument. If you all say to be satisfied with the VF-1 1/48 size then why are you so eagerly hoping for 1/48 VF-0s if those ain´t gonna be any better that the VF-1s , they´ll just be bigger and a friking lot more expensive just because you want them big.

I´m getting tired of listening to the same excuse : Oh ! if they´re making a 1/60 monster then there are no limits !

Now how many of you will buy it ? I assume you´ll also get the 1/1 helmet now don´t ya ? and most important , where´s your precious 1/60 Monster ?

Giving that excuse is just a poor exposition of mindless fanatism. just because the label says 1/48 it´s gonna be great isn´t it.

I bet everytime someone mentions a possible 1/60 M0 line you all get the image of the lame 1/60 VF-1s , same size , same detail , same crapyness....But oh ,wait , I just remembered something , isn´t the VF-0 the same size as the M+ valks ?

Aren´t the 1/72 M+ toys bigger than the 1/60 VF-1s ? wouldn´t 1/60 M+ toys be larger than the 1/48 VF-1s too ? then why should the M0 toys be made unreasonable large and expensive if they can be just as detailed , big and great as the 1/48 VF-1s in 1/60 ?

Dont take this as a whine or anything ,I know we´ve discussed this over and over but I´m juts tryng to point out the fact that having 1/48 M0 toys just because a few want them to have a 1/48 label in them is just ridiculous while we could have the same stuff with the same quality and price in a not much smaller scale. 1/48 will just make them big and unreasonably expensive , not great.

Saying they should make them in 1/48 because they are making ludicrously expensive toys like the 1/1 helmet and 1/60 Monster that absolutelly NO ONE WILL BUY is a lame excuse and a bit selfish concidering most of the consumers don´t have that budget and will just be left with the 1/100 toys , when having 1/60 would be just as with the 1/48 VF-1s , same collectability , price and detail.

1/48 would make them prohibitive not only for the poor fans but also for those that were fine with the 1/48 VF-1´s price.

Edited January 29, 2004 by Aegis!

[Draykov]

You know what , all this ¨I want 1/48 - insert valk here-¨ is becoming more of a lame trend than a real argument. If you all say to be satisfied with the VF-1 1/48 size then why are you so eagerly hoping for 1/48 VF-0s if those ain´t gonna be any better that the VF-1s , they´ll just be bigger and a friking lot more expensive just because you want them big.

I´m getting tired of listening to the same excuse : Oh ! if they´re making a 1/60 monster then there are no limits !

Now how many of you will buy it ?  I assume you´ll also get the 1/1 helmet now don´t ya ? and most important , where´s your precious 1/60 Monster ?

Giving that excuse is just a poor exposition of mindless fanatism. just because the label says 1/48 it´s gonna be great isn´t it.

I bet everytime someone mentions a possible 1/60 M0 line you all get the image of the lame 1/60 VF-1s , same size , same detail , same crapyness....But oh ,wait , I just remembered something , isn´t the VF-0 the same size as the M+ valks ?

Aren´t the 1/72 M+ toys  bigger than the 1/60 VF-1s ? would´t 1/60 M+ toys be larger than the 1/48 VF-1s too ? then why should the M0 toys be made unjustifiably large and expensive if they can be just as detailed , big and great as the 1/48 VF-1s in 1/60 ?

Dont take this as a whine or anything ,I know we´ve discussed this over and over but  I´m juts tryng  to point out the fact that having 1/48 M0 toys just because a few want them to have a 1/48 label in them is just ridiculous whine we could have the same stuff with the same quality and price in a not much smaller scale. 1/48 will just make them big and unjustifiably expensive , not great.

Saying they should make them in 1/48 because they are making ludicrously expensive toys like the 1/1 helmet and 1/60 Monster that absolutelly NO ONE WILL BUY is a lame excuse and a bit selfish concidering most of the consumers  don´t have that budget and will just be left with the 1/100 toys , when having 1/60 would be just as with the 1/48 VF-1s , same collectability , price and detail.

1/48 would make them prohibitive not only for the poor fans but also for those that were fine with the 1/48 VF-1´s price.

1/48 VF-14 Vampire! W00T!

Edited January 29, 2004 by Draykov

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

and whos to say the price wont be the same as the 1/48 VF-1? Some of us want it in scale with teh 1/48 Vf-1. Look at the 1/60 qrau..freaking behemoth yet it costs less then the VF-1 1/48. Aint nothing wrong with hopeful wishing. I wouldnt buy the helmet thats too much. If you all have the same mentality for the Vf-0 than thats str8 hell we dont even know what scale the damn thing would be if its made in a higher end edition. Above all else I want perfect trasnfromation. Now that in fact is not too much to ask. If its 1/60 or 1/72 cool its still big. 1/48 makes it even more appealking. dont take it like im whining Im just saying itd be nice and yamato CAN do it. Whatever they choose as long as its perfect tranmsfromation I will buy it. I personally would love to shell out a lot for the thing as it happens to be one of myt favorite designs. Sure its big for 1/48 but i guess a handful of us including me would still want it in that scale. BUt like i said perfect trasnformation above all..give me that and i wouldnt give a damn what scale it is.

[Nani?!]

Amen Aegis.

Seriously. If yamato continues to make 1/48 it's MAIN line I really don't think a lot of us would be able to keep up (both in shelf size and price).

1/48's are cool no doubt, but for some of yous, it's almost getting fanatical.

[Nani?!]

Amen Aegis.

Seriously. If yamato continues to make 1/48 it's MAIN line I really don't think a lot of us would be able to keep up (both in shelf size and price).

1/48's are cool no doubt, but for some of yous, it's almost getting fanatical.

[Dampiel]

Ok I don't want a 1/48 VF-0 Just because it would be huge (although it would only be like 3 or 4 inches longer than a 1/48 VF-1 in fighter mode) but because it would be in scale with the 1/48 VF-1 and I prefer to keep toys from a series in scale. No I’m not made of money no I don't have all the space in the world but I’m picky about what I buy which helps me save space and money for things like a 1/48 VF-0.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

we got the money so we also got the love!(actualyl i dont but like i siad time an time again i would starve for a 0..yea id be able to afofrd it but not any other toy for a dfew months but i love it!)

Noone EVER said 1/48 was going to be the main line! I thought everyone knew that? its a collectors line high end that happens to be selling real well. A lot of us big robot fans are just clamoring for a 1/48 Vf-0 because

1-big robot toys kick ass

2-no excuse NOT to implement perfect trasnfromation

3-in scale with cream of the crop....1.,48 VF-1`

4-obviously more detailed than 1/100

I am sur ethe 1/100 line will include every variant possible. Hell maybe they will make that the cheap line. then a 1/72 to make a middleroad 6800 yen price range. then make a 1/48 line of MAcross 0 toys.

1/100 line has most selection.,

1/72 narrows selection down

1/48 only has one of each variant.

[ewilen]

The thing that still weirds me out is that this is not a small toy. If it was 1/144 I wouldn't mind at all. As big as the 1/100 toy will be already, it makes me wonder whether they would ever make even a 1/72 scale.

The 1/48 Valks are 25% larger than the 1/60 Valks.

A 1/72 VF-0 would be 39% larger than the 1/100 VF-0. A 1/60 would be 67% larger than the 1/100.

In other words, either a 1/72 or a 1/60 would be a markedly greater increase in size over the "introductory" toy, compared to the earlier 1/60->1/48 sequence of the VF-1.

As for the absolute size of VF-0 toys compared to the 1/48 VF-1, somebody's probably already done it, but here are the figures based on scale and official stats (i.e., not based on measuring the toy, but should be close):

VF-1: Real length 14.23 m

1/48 scale length ~30 cm or 11-1/2 inches

VF-0: Real length 18.69 m

1/100 scale lenth ~19 cm or 7-1/2 inches

1/72 scale length ~26 cm or 10 inches

1/60 scale length ~31 cm or 12-1/2 inches

1/48 scale length ~39 cm or 15-1/2 inches

A 1/72 or 1/60 VF-0 would be around the size of a 1/48 VF-1. A 1/48 VF-0 might or might not be unwieldy but I'd expect it to cost considerably more. If nothing else, it would probably require around double the raw materials. (It's about 30% longer than the VF-1, which translates into roughly twice the volume.)

Edited January 29, 2004 by ewilen

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

hey whta about height in battroid mode?

[imode]

Okay, to clear this up.

In a perfect world, we'd have 2 scales. Yamato would either make everything 1/60 and 1/48. 1/48's would be for the die-hard "we want it big and beautiful. look at that fat thang!" collectors. 1/60's would be for the casual and budget/space concerned die hards. This is probably a good financial venture for them as well because people that bought tons of the 1/48 VF-1's will probably still buy tons of everything else in 1/48. All the 1/60 people will also rejoice that their scale is also "not dead" as was previously believed. In short, everyone gains from having 2 scales. You take a look at the poll on the other page, and it's pretty much 50/50. Everyone will be happy, with the exception of a dozen or so 1/72 people.

If you think Yamato would be wasting money by making a 1/48, you're better of bitching and moaning about why they're making helmets and monsters. The fact is, both scales have their markets, and you can't deny either one.

[Draykov]

If you think Yamato would be wasting money by making a 1/48, you're better of bitching and moaning about why they're making helmets and monsters. The fact is, both scales have their markets, and you can't deny either one.

That about sums it up. However the reality is that not many folks would've chosen a 1/100 cheap "simple transformation" zero as their first choice. I'm content to see what happens next, whether it be striclty 1/100 stuff, a bigger perfect 0 in a scale between 1/100 and 1/48, or a big, expensive, 1/48 "Hope Diamond" of plastic. Everyone is entitled to want what they want (whether reason is involved or not). We'll just have to wait and see what happens or start a Betty Ford-esque Valk addict clinic.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

imode you rock! see i evben brought up the notion of 1/100=everything in mac0 and 1/48 =sel;ect ferw fan faves yet in the other thread i am labeled as a 1/48 tag along i want everyting in 1/48 including the world and everything in it not to mention sdf-1 in 1/487 scale AWESOME member!

yes in a perfect world 1/60 and 1/48 would be excellent. Hopefully then we wouldnt have people saying" oh no 1/60 is too big...." since it would be the SMALLEST size available.

[DrClay]

1:60 is the way to go, same size as 1:48 VF-1, but to scale with 1:60 Vf-1s

also, has anyone seen those 1:48 diecast F-16s at Walmart? since the real f-16 would be about 18 meters, shouldn't those toys be a good indicator of how big a 1:48 0 would be? Also since they are all plastic, more materials shouldn't make too much cost, since the VF-0 in the show was designed using autocad with toys in mind by Kawamori who also approves all Yamatos designs, couldn't they use that autocad model to make the toy? I think a 1:48 could bring in a big ole' profit margin if priced at $150... less than a pimped out VF-1. but I know how you "1:48 for anything other than a VF-1 is wrong and should not even be thought about because etc etc etc..." people don't like hearing talk like this, so remember, my vote is for 1:60, and I've read aegeis' post already

EDIT: the Yamato M+ 1:72's are sized up from 1:72 for toy making reasons, if the big VF-0 is 1:72, it won't be to scale with any other yamato valks.

Edited January 29, 2004 by DrClay

[ewilen]

hey whta about height in battroid mode?

If you can find an official stat for the VF-0 battroid height, I'd be glad to do the math.