Graham's clarification - Yamato VF-0S

[DrClay]

don't you just love insulting other members of the board?

Don't you just love coming to very early assumptions?

You know what happens when you assume, don't you?

Vostok 7

hey vostok 7, some people are entitled to their own opinions. You may notice that I don't feel a need to roll my eyes and insult you whenever you say anything. If you wanna' make fun of me on these boards just PM all your friends about what a PooHead I'm supposed to be, but I don't wanna' read it!

[ewilen]

no wonder Yamato won't let Graham tell what they've been planning. If this is true, they've lost a customer!!!!!!!!!

You wouldn't have bought it anyway...

Personally, I'm with Graham. The diecast in the 1/60's does very little for me, but it does make the toys difficult to handle.

[DrClay]

no wonder Yamato won't let Graham tell what they've been planning. If this is true, they've lost a customer!!!!!!!!!         

You wouldn't have bought it anyway...

Personally, I'm with Graham. The diecast in the 1/60's does very little for me, but it does make the toys difficult to handle.

I would have pre-ordered it and found out that I was holding the valk equivalent to a Gundam archenemy action figure after it was too late. the difference is, the gundam costs $15 (and it isn't even worth that)

anyways, why argue? they stop with the diecast on their smaller scale toys, I stop buying. bottom line

Edited January 28, 2004 by DrClay

[Max Jenius]

Man, if Yamato releases a Chyenne w/ chainguns I will buy it.

[Vostok 7]

hey vostok 7, some people are entitled to their own opinions. You may notice that I don't feel a need to roll my eyes and insult you whenever you say anything. If you wanna' make fun of me on these boards just PM all your friends about what a PooHead I'm supposed to be, but I don't wanna' read it!

Clearly you mistake me for someone else.

I just continue to wonder if it's possible for Yamato to do anything right in the eyes of the fanboy. I wonder how many Japanese fans are complaining about Yamato's move away from diecast. Obviously, the Japanese are favorable since in Yamato's eyes, that's the only market they care about, and rightfully so.

Personally? I think the move is an excellent decision. Why? 1) Price. 2) Balance. 3) Detail. Some people can't afford fifteen 1/48s of the same type... Some people can't even afford the 1/60s! So I think this move is great because it brings it down to an affordable level. And as Graham mentioned, there's better balance and detail. Don't look at the YF-19 and tell me it's a detail and balance marvel. Or even worse, the YF-21.

So it's plastic. It's more VF-0 toy than we've gotten so far, and that's good enough for me.

Vostok 7

Edited January 28, 2004 by Vostok 7

[Vostok 7]

anyways, why argue? they stop with the diecast on their smaller scale toys, I stop buying. bottom line

BTW, do you really think Yamato cares?

That kind of stuff may work here in the states, but first of all, Yamato could care less about the American market of (or feelings about) these toys. Why should they? They really can't even legally care.

Yamato didn't care that people didn't like 1/60 scale. Or removable parts. Or "mosquito noses". They did change those things, and in the end made the 1/48 which was chubby and had no removable parts... And people STILL complained.

Frankly, I'm glad Yamato DOESN'T listen to most of it's customers. If I was Yamato I would have said "Aw screw it" years ago.

Vostok 7

[DrClay]

Clearly you mistake me for someone else.

I just continue to wonder if it's possible for Yamato to do anything right in the eyes of the fanboy. I wonder how many Japanese fans are complaining about Yamato's move away from diecast. Obviously, the Japanese are favorable since in Yamato's eyes, that's the only market they care about, and rightfully so.

Personally? I think the move is an excellent decision. Why? 1) Price. 2) Balance. 3) Detail. Some people can't afford fifteen 1/48s of the same type... Some people can't even afford the 1/60s! So I think this move is great because it brings it down to an affordable level. And as Graham mentioned, there's better balance and detail. Don't look at the YF-19 and tell me it's a detail and balance marvel. Or even worse, the YF-21.

So it's plastic. It's more VF-0 toy than we've gotten so far, and that's good enough for me.

Vostok 7

i coulda' sworn that I was quoting YOUR posts.

this fanboy has had nothing but positive things to say about Yamato until the 1:100 appeared. according to what I've seen of the Japanese boards, they don't like the 1:100 VF-0 either, calling it an expensive banpresto and "the suck"

you make some good arguements, but 1) diecastless yf-19fp will cost as much, if not more than the earlier version (if there is any sort of price drop, i'm betting it's gonna' be completely insignificant) 2) I assume (look at the monkey, assuming again ) that your talking about the 1:60's heavylegs, I've noticed that in gelwalk and battaloid modes my 1:60s have a very low center of gravity (according to physics, this is not an undesirable state for something that you would want to "not fall over") 3) I've yet to notice ONE complaint from even the most irritable fanboy about the lack of detail in the 1:60 scale due to materials (I thought detail was one of the 1:60's selling points when it came out)

I look at my yf-21 and think about all the hate that the fanboys throw at it, and I think "why all the fuss? this toy is great" in fact, it's one of my favorite toys. Take away its die-cast content, however, and you're right, it wouldn't be such a great toy... it'd be like all the $5 transformers, Yu-gi-oh, and Beyblades.

[kensei]

Where`s the YF-19FB, don`t tell me this one also won`t have die-cast ?!. Is Yamato abandonning die-casts for their toys ?!.

I think that die-cast is pretty much being abandoned except for parts where it is absolutely necessary, i.e. the 1/48 swing bar.

It's not a cost issue, it's just that with die-cast parts you inevitably get paint chipping, the detail is not as sharp as on ABS parts and it's often difficult to get a perfect color match between the plastic parts and the die-cast parts. Also, many toys with die-cast parts do have balance issues.

I know this forum has a lot of die-cast addicts , but I'm not one of them and personally I prefer my Macross toys plastic, with metal only where necessary for strength.

Graham

I thought that was a brilliant idea with Yamato. Paint chipping is a pain in the backside, also more diecast can put more wear and tear in the joints, causing floppy part syndrome.

[DrClay]

BTW, do you really think Yamato cares?

That kind of stuff may work here in the states, but first of all, Yamato could care less about the American market of (or feelings about) these toys. Why should they? They really can't even legally care.

Yamato didn't care that people didn't like 1/60 scale. Or removable parts. Or "mosquito noses". They did change those things, and in the end made the 1/48 which was chubby and had no removable parts... And people STILL complained.

Frankly, I'm glad Yamato DOESN'T listen to most of it's customers. If I was Yamato I would have said "Aw screw it" years ago.

Vostok 7

somehow, my valk purchase becomes money for them... But that's not the point, I'm not threatening yamato with my wallet... (it's like if you drop something, you know it will fall... it's not threatening you with gravity so that you'll change your mind about dropping it)

I personally love everything about the 1:60 scale Valks

I've defended the 1:48 on numerous occasions

I'm not a fan of focus group either, but why can't I express my opinions on these boards? what's your deal? you're glad Yamato doesn't listen to me? good for you. You feel a need to tell me over and over that Yamato is too busy being perfect to read my posts? I didn't think they were reading my posts, and if your going to continue to hound me about my opinion, you should start your own thread about how everything I post is ignorant, or you can just quote me and rolleyes. you'll have to put it in another section, though, this one is for posts about macross toys, NOT what an idiot you think I am.

[DrClay]

Paint chipping is a pain in the backside, also more diecast can put more wear and tear in the joints, causing floppy part syndrome.

this is why people build models... that's the problem with this section, model making, and toy collecting are two DIFFERENT hobbies with completely seperate reasons for amusing Macross fanboys. there should be seperate sections, custom toys should be posted in both.

P.S. I know there is a model section.

Edited January 28, 2004 by DrClay

[kensei]

Paint chipping is a pain in the backside, also more diecast can put more wear and tear in the joints, causing floppy part syndrome.

this is why people build models... that's the problem with this section, model making, and toy collecting are two DIFFERENT hobbies with completely seperate reasons for amusing Macross fanboys. there should be seperate sections, custom toys should be posted in both.

Sorry to put sand in your lubricant but I am referring to the toys. The 1/48 is a toy if I'm not mistaken, and the T bar already has some paint chip due to repeated transformations. I learned after recieveing the VF-1A Hikaru and have kept the paint chipping minimal by being more careful when I transform it.

Geez, what is your obsession with die cast dude? These are toys we're talking about, not weights! If you want to feel the pump, get to the gym!

[DrClay]

Geez, what is your obsession with die cast dude? These are toys we're talking about, not weights! If you want to feel the pump, get to the gym! 

I understand that you were referin' to a toy. The 1:48 makes up for its lack of metal with its numerous other strengths. (I suppose you would prefer an ABS plastic swingbar?)

ahem-- my obsession with die-cast has to do with G1 Transformers, Vintage Takatoku Valks, Binaltechs, MPC Convoy, SoCs, Doyushas, 1:60's and a few other "classic" toys

my obsession with Yamatos switching to die-castlessness (that's alot of suffix) has to do with zoids, gundam actionfigures, beyblade, G.I. joe, digimon, Mcfarlane toys, and many, many other toys that aren't worth a nice displaycase, or even owning (unless you're 7)

I know I go on and on, but each of my posts has been in response to another post. Despite what Vostok 7 thinks, I love all the Yammie Valks that have come out so far, I am saddened that Yamato is choosing to move from the "classic" catagory to the "made to amuse toddler for 1 sec. max" catagory. I liked that there was a toy company that made so many wonderful collectibles.

-le sigh

Dear fans of low quality toys, do not be offended... I collect transformers, so I am one of you, it's just that... Yamato is special, you know...

Edited January 28, 2004 by DrClay

[Chindenathus]

Dr. Clay

Would you please just drop it.

You are not even beginning to add

considerate nor conducive dialog to

this discussion.

Put simple; that is enough.

If you do not wish to purchase

"Sweat shop assembled models"

then don't, vote with your dollar.

quit bogging down this thread

with pointless ranting.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

while I don't necesarily think the 1/48 is a model kit, I do know this. I we are looking for diecast, yamato is the wrong company. IMHO yamato doesnt do diecast right. BUt the best example of them doing it right to me was the VF11B. Bear in mind I have not handled the YF21 yet but I am sure it is well made. However while it would have been nice for the 1/48 to have more diecast on par with the 1/55 takatoku, I feel that it would have made the hips as loose as the 1/60 since it woudl wear down the joints. LKe I said IMHO yamato cant do diecast right UNLESS the fool thing does not transform. And the ealier mac plus releases. Look at the Giant robo yammies...they get praise for being pretty solid. Now look at escaflowne. He even got called bad things even after years of waiting. Thwe 1/48 is superior to the 1.60s in almost every way except for diecast content. NOW in that respect I dont mind the lack of diecast. Yamato can do plastic right IMHO so if they do plastic then cool. IF they do diecast thats even better. BUt In my experience the irony is there palstic toys are more durable. Transformable that is. My 1/48 is much more solid than the 1/60 i have is. The 1/60 i got became a ragdoll. The 1/48 has become nirvana.

glad the swingbar is diecast for if it was ABS it would break.

Heopfully the VF-0 if it comes in a big ass 1/48 scale, can havea better design that incorporates diecast doen RIGHT.

Aside from that I will stick to my opinion...I stil believe that bandai can do us right with diecast and they have proven it. Intricate trasnfroming combiner robots lke dancougar have been made fully poseable yet retained much diecast content enough to weigh 4lb. now thats engineering baby.

With teh VF-0 I really dont mind the lack of diecast unless absolutely necesarry. For med I just grew acustomed to yamato lacking diecast in future releases.

[grassland]

Just by throwing your weight around here and demand for for diecast is not going to work! If you are not buying the yammie just because of the lack of diecast, then dont buy, nobody is forcing it down your throat to the the PLASTIC.

Go sleep in a hardware shop, there are lotsa diecast and different metals around

[Blaine23]

Gee... an odd position to be in, but I actually dig the hell out of diecast and I actually I'm just fine with paint chipping. All the great old toys of my youth have paint chipping and it just looks like a well-loved toy.

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I like paint chipping. Must be silly nostalgia, but I love my most abused-looking toys.

But all the BS floating around here is getting a bit thick. Even though I agree with you on the issue of diecast, Dr. Clay - I'd still recommend that you take a deep breath and calm down a bit. No one is really attacking you, they just disagree with your uh.. "aggressive" stance.

Again, buy the toy or don't - Yamato has many products and perhaps the next one will be more to your liking. Or maybe it won't. No need to birth kittens here on the board about it.

[Jawjaw]

Let's not get spoiled because face it - Macross is not the most popular thing out there right now. We are lucky that Yamato is dedicated to making Macross toys of not just one type, but many. I think most of us would like diecast in all our valkyries but I don't think any of us want to keep paying $80-100 for just one of them. I also think most of us would prefer a better looking plastic valkyrie than one with diecast.

[EXO]

Let's not get spoiled because face it - Macross is not the most popular thing out there right now. We are lucky that Yamato is dedicated to making Macross toys of not just one type, but many. I think most of us would like diecast in all our valkyries but I don't think any of us want to keep paying $80-100 for just one of them. I also think most of us would prefer a better looking plastic valkyrie than one with diecast.

Yup... what he said.

Also, given the chance I think Yamato would love to make Macross their Gundam franchise, so maybe down the line there will be more variety to what you will get. Everyone is just speculating on what they know now, but we can never really guess what they have in mind. Based on the helmet, we clearly have no understanding on what's next.

[Aegis!]

...aaaaand once again , another Macross World thread succumbs to the rage of the wild fanboys.

I can´t believe people would actually waste almost 2 pages on frickin die-cast <_< , that´s just , well ...lame.

I think we´re making a mistake when assuming these toys will be aimed at young consumers , Macross is just not that popular in Japan so young lads will get attracted by it , for them Macross is just an old 20 year old show that dissapeared ages ago , so let´s not assume Yamato is taking charge of the Macross crusade to make it popular in Japan by making affordable toys. That ain´t gonna happen unless BW and SN get to work on a new TV show.

I think Yamato is trying to put a real mass production toy in the market with the idea of selling more numbers of toys instead of limited numbers of toys like the 1/48s (their price tag won´t help when people are not buying them in numbers).

i.e.

cheap toy = more sales with fewer profit per unit

expensive toy = fewer sales with more profit per unit

result = cheap toy wins by numbers

And since the 1/60 were too expensive to be marketed as cheap mass production toys they din´t sell that much hence we now see cheaper mass production toys.

Of course now that they know there´s still a market for expensive high quality toys they won´t stop trying to get money from it so a better version of the M0 is at the very least probable. Though that still doesn´t mean they´re not counting on the 1/100 successs to start developing bigger M0 toys.

I personally wouldn´t rest calmly waiting for Yamato to totally fail on the 1/100 sales and then magically , as if from somewhere they magically got the funds to produce 1/60 (or 1/48 sized if you want to look at it that way) M0 toys.

I will at the very least get the GBP-0 and an OCTOS .

[GreenGuy42]

aka factory assembled models but less accurate and all around poopee

The 1/48 is good like that, but these little Gundam wannabes.... wwwwwwwhy!!! Yamato used to make such great toys remember those days when a Yamato was better than a MSiA or a $5 transformer from wal-mart?

Don'tcha just love ignorance?

Vostok 7

don't you just love insulting other members of the board?

Try playing with a 19A sometime. It's rather annoying when ONE CAREFUL transformation gouges out a hell of a lot of paint...

Bring on my plastic toys!

[Tico0001]

Is the lack of diecast really going to drop the prices??? Look at the 1/48 for example. It's the yamato macross toy with less diecast and it's also the most expensive. The 1/60 has a lot of diecast and it's like $80, the 1/48 has almost no metal and it's like $140. It doesn't seem to me that the diecast has anything to do with price.

I love diecast too! But i have nothing against all plastic if it's for a reasonable price.

~Tico

[Draykov]

The 1/60 has a lot of diecast and it's like $80, the 1/48 has almost no metal and it's like $140. It doesn't seem to me that the diecast has anything to do with price.

Well, first, you might want to start shopping elsewhere for your Valks. Second, you seem to be forgetting the fact that the 1/48 is considerably larger than the 1/60 and they have to pay for those molds somehow.

Edited January 28, 2004 by Draykov

[Tico0001]

The 1/60 has a lot of diecast and it's like $80, the 1/48 has almost no metal and it's like $140. It doesn't seem to me that the diecast has anything to do with price.

Well, first, you might want to start shopping elsewhere for your Valks. Second, you seem to be forgetting the fact that the 1/48 is considerably larger than the 1/60 and they have to pay for those molds somehow.

I'm talking about original prices... i know they can be found cheaper. If the 1/48 is larger but with no diecast shouldn't those things "cancel each other out" a little?? I think yamato is making us pay for the detail ... not for materials used.

~Tico

[Draykov]

I think yamato is making us pay for the detail ... not for materials used.

Another good point. More detail costs more money to produce, so it's only to be expected that the cost is passed down to the consumer.

Edited January 28, 2004 by Draykov

[mechaninac]

The 1/60 has a lot of diecast and it's like $80, the 1/48 has almost no metal and it's like $140. It doesn't seem to me that the diecast has anything to do with price.

Well, first, you might want to start shopping elsewhere for your Valks. Second, you seem to be forgetting the fact that the 1/48 is considerably larger than the 1/60 and they have to pay for those molds somehow.

I'm talking about original prices... i know they can be found cheaper. If the 1/48 is larger but with no diecast shouldn't those things "cancel each other out" a little?? I think yamato is making us pay for the detail ... not for materials used.

~Tico

Larger and greater content of plastic parts, regardless of amount of detail, equals bigger steel molds or more of them (not to mention all the added cooling lines, gating, ejectors, cams, et al), with increased cycle times that monopolize molding machines longer with a lower output of parts, and don't forget the larger boxes that also increase storage and shipping costs. All this adds up to higher per unit production costs and a longer amortization curve to pay for everything, and I'm sure Yamato gave itself an higher profit margin on the 1/48s compared to the 1/60s and 1/72s so that the decision to make the larger valks looks good on their financial statements.

Of course, I could be wrong and the higher price is just a conspiracy to suck every last penny out of our bank accounts.

[pfunk]

The 1/60 has a lot of diecast and it's like $80, the 1/48 has almost no metal and it's like $140. It doesn't seem to me that the diecast has anything to do with price.

Well, first, you might want to start shopping elsewhere for your Valks. Second, you seem to be forgetting the fact that the 1/48 is considerably larger than the 1/60 and they have to pay for those molds somehow.

I'm talking about original prices... i know they can be found cheaper. If the 1/48 is larger but with no diecast shouldn't those things "cancel each other out" a little?? I think yamato is making us pay for the detail ... not for materials used.

~Tico

true, a tool with detail costs up to 3x's as much with EDM'ing and chroming, not to mention slides and lifters which equate to longer run times/higher tonnage press and a higher scrap rate,,,just more complicated processes,,,,,,,,all in all I personally think they are still over priced

[Draykov]

...all in all I personally think they are still over priced

Compared to American made toys, I'd tend to agree. However, they are laced with platinum and/or crack, so I no longer question it.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

ya know i wonder if graham can tell us. What DOES make these thing retail for 14800 yen? I think that isnt so much secretive that you cant tel us. Maybe they arent truly mass produced and the reason they seem to saturate is because as adults in the toy market we do make up a small portion...the irony being the toys are catered to us and SOC continues to be a well seelling line.,

[pfunk]

ya know i wonder if graham can tell us. What DOES make these thing retail for 14800 yen? I think that isnt so much secretive that you cant tel us. Maybe they arent truly mass produced and the reason they seem to saturate is because as adults in the toy market we do make up a small portion...the irony being the toys are catered to us and SOC continues to be a well seelling line.,

this funny little thing called profit

[unsped]

i think it can be paraphrazed as so

"the simpsons comic book guy does not define the japanese toy market"

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

yet the japanese are complaining WITH us regarding the parts swap. Sure they may not cater to the americas but when you have fans all over nad in japan bitching about the same thing...priomarily in japan over the parts swap...somethings gotta give. I just think the big scale 0 might bea nnounced sooner IF yamato realizes how many people are bitching at the japanese BBS's/.

[pfunk]

its kinda like messing with the Gas or Electric company

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

i wonder how long that VF-0S has been in development. I am itching to see how detailed it is. preferably the curent sculpt which graham saw and commented on. Imode or anyone who ahs transalted and navigated through the japanese BBS's, are there any pictures of it that we have not seen or any information that we have not read yet?

[imode]

Links don't appear very often, and when they do, it's usually links to here or porn sites.

[Aegis!]

Links don't appear very often, and when they do, it's usually links to here or porn sites.

SO ? where are they ? post them already ! <_<

Just joking