VF-1S 3D Printed 1/20 Scale Project

[sqidd]

2 hours ago, Aztek said:

A quick mock up shows ~28 cm tall in fighter mode with landing gear extended.  It is 71 cm from nose tip to feet in fighter.

Fun fact. I just measured this. Battroid height with head lasers is almost identical to Fighter length. So 71cm/28in tall in Battroid! It will be about 87cm/34in tall with SSP's!!!

Holy smokes!!!!

Who am I going to find to paint it? A house painter?

[Aztek]

XD after all the printing and finishing I'll have to freshen up on WM Chen's techniques

[MechTech]

Your work is looking awesome Aztek! I'm with Sqidd, I'm going to have to buy this if my budget allows (then a 3D printer) and then buy stocks in a paint company! Your parts engineering is looking great too!

I've attached a simple ratchet joint from a Monster I did if you're interested. The breakout shows the parts and the other photo shows it partially assembled so you can see the function. Friction joints with something this big and heavy may be an issue. - MT

[Urashiman]

17 hours ago, Aztek said:

SSP? Fast packs?   Already have the geometry from my base model.  Just need to convert to a printable/STL format once I get the final dimensions updated on this project   The weight with everything is likely going to be pretty heavy.  Snapping in to place may not be enough.  I'm working on slide locks to secure the model in fighter mode.  I hope in battroid the friction joints will be stable enough!

Oh - 3DS Max; so you are a man of culture?

[Chronocidal]

You know.. just a thought about that thigh hinge, but you could potentially do it without any pivoting joint at all.

The parts would need to be very precise, but I'm thinking you could actually embed a sliding hinge inside the accordion piece.  Maybe.   I'm thinking of a sliding friction hinge I'm working on for a Klingon BoP kit that uses a dual tracked sliding mechanism, but there may not be enough room to stack enough layers within the leg to make enough friction.

Also remember that most VF-1 legs in recent memory use the notches in the accordion joint as a ratcheting mechanism, with a flexible tooth on the inside of the thigh that will catch into the layers of the accordion shape.

[Aztek]

@MechTech that joint looks awesome!  I planned on nylon washers and metric screws with nylock nuts.  How does it work for you?  Strong enough? Does it break/chip?  Is that SLA printed or FDM?  I’ll look to reverse engineer. ☺️  I got my SLA back yesterday and have resin on its way.

@Chronocidal I have an stl for a sliding/friction hinge and since the leg is so big I may go back and look at that as an option.  Right now the model is easily over 500 objects.  I’d like to optimize much lower and that just might help.  Also I have the ratchet/nub inside the upper thigh portion to ‘notch” in the upper accordion grooves. Thanks!

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Aztek

[MechTech]

Thanks Aztec. The parts are actually machined styrene pieces. They were designed to be cast from resin. The Monster is so heavy, I knew it needed ratchets to keep it upright. - MT

[Aztek]

@MechTech would you mind taking a couple more pictures of that from an angle that can show me the way it’s built? I can almost make it out but would want to see the male and female pieces better.

[Xigfrid]

That’s a huge project and I like your 3D design. Glad to see more and more 3D projects. 

[yman1437]

as a beginner to 3D printing, must pay tribute to the master ! WOW!

[MechTech]

Here are some other shots that I hope help you out (they're originally from my build thread). Some of the same and different - but same idea- designs. It's a very simple design. Flanged ring has indents cut into flanged area. Slotted post goes into flanged ring. The "C" looking piece fits into the post and is the ratchet. The shape gives it spring while in the shaft. The post will probably need to be longer for your model. The last photo shows the indents being cut into the top part of the flange. The one here was for a smaller 1/350th model. I hope that helps you out! - MT

[Aztek]

@MechTechnice!  I'll post some prototyping below off I did off your original photos.  I took a stab and instead of doing the flange pressing against the center housing I double flanged it.  Printed in PETG, cycled a few hundred times bu hand.  Great tension and no sign of serious wear!  This joint will be perfect for the knee and may try to adapt for the shoulder joint.  Your work is amazing.  How strong is the styrene? The smoothness looks great in the photos.  With FDM I'll spend a fair amount of time post processing.  The SLA is awesome but not structurally consistent enough nor strong enough for the main structure.

Today is a small but proud update.  I got my SLA printer back up and wanted to do a detail test.  I wasn't sure where to start.  Since the hands are one of the more daunting things to get right (for me) I said screw it and jumped in to these over the 4-day weekend.  The proud part is I used the attached line art to draw the original mesh back in '03 while deployed.  The hands have hardly changed over the years and are one of my favorite creations.  On the 1/20 scale I'm trying to get as close to DYRL canon as possible.  Some things like the visible ball joints are required for function but the details like on the palm and back hand are critical.  The mock up below has the 1/72 and 1/48 for comparison.  The gray PLA arm assembly was the draft I first did so there are gaps and loose joints.  The mesh is fixed but I don't want to print it again until I start panel lining,   More photos following this post since I'm having a hard time not getting errors when uploading on my PC.

[Aztek]

reposting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Aztek
reposting photos

[peter]

Blows my mind every time I come into this thread.

[Knight26]

Dang, that hand is amazing.  Great work.

[Convectuoso]

Incredible!

[Gabe Q]

This is an impressive engineering feat. That hand is beautiful. 

[slide]

13 hours ago, Aztek said:

[Xigfrid]

Whoa this hand is so beautiful !

[MechTech]

That's some awesome work! The hand does look beautiful - first time I think I ever said that It's funny how the thumb is almost as big as the 1/72 scale hand all by itself. What size hole goes through the fingers? I'm thinking maybe a screw to go through it? The screw head / bolt head may even add an aspect of detail. Just an idea, and you can tighten it too.

The ratchet joint looks great too! Two makes it much more positive - great for the load that will be placed on it. Great design and idea! Styrene is not very strong, but for this tiny guy, it worked. The advantage of subtractive machining is you clean your work as you go along vs additive processes where it may need further processing to erase the bias marks. But 3D printing has more advantages. That's why I need to get into it.

I'm thinking of going SLA printer for detail. The resins are usually acrylic based and so more brittle, but they are superior for detail, which is what I'll be shooting for.

I'm glad you were able to work on stuff while deployed. I brought my model stuff with me and never touched it! Just too busy doing other stuff. - MT

[Aztek]

Thanks all!  The pins in the fingers are 1.6 mm and interference fit.  Might not be able to get a nut/bolt in there.  
 

I'm thinking of draft printing the nose section next.  So may be a short while before I get an update as there are multiple tweaks to the mesh I need to do for the pivoting radome, leg connections, canopy, etc.

[Sanity is Optional]

3 hours ago, Aztek said:

Thanks all!  The pins in the fingers are 1.6 mm and interference fit.  Might not be able to get a nut/bolt in there.  
 

I'm thinking of draft printing the nose section next.  So may be a short while before I get an update as there are multiple tweaks to the mesh I need to do for the pivoting radome, leg connections, canopy, etc.

If you want something with less wear than an interference fit (and less possibility of working it's way free), you could do slip fit, with an interference-fit washer in the middle to keep it from slipping out. Then rely on rubber washers or the like inbetween the joint sections to provide the holding friction.

Just a random idea, off the top of my head.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Sanity is Optional

[Aztek]

@Sanity is Optional I’m not quite understanding that?  Do you have a diagram or break down of one installed?  I’ve taken apart a bunch of toys over the last several months and I’m not sure I’ve seen that yet.

[Chronocidal]

Honestly, at that scale, it almost feels like it would be worthwhile to mold teeth and ridges into the finger joints to soft ratchet them like LEGO hinges.

[Sanity is Optional]

7 hours ago, Aztek said:

@Sanity is Optional I’m not quite understanding that?  Do you have a diagram or break down of one installed?  I’ve taken apart a bunch of toys over the last several months and I’m not sure I’ve seen that yet.

Not toy design, at the scale you're working in I figured it might be worth using some other techniques.

Essentially you separate the joint pin aspect from the friction aspect.

For the pin, slip fit it through everything, and in the middle have a hidden captive washer that is press-fit, and keeps the pin from sliding out either side.

---|---

Then for the friction aspect of the joint, to keep things from just being loose, you could stick rubber washers inbetween the two plastic bits that rotate versus eachother. The rubber friction is over a larger area, and the washers would be easily replaceable if they got worn.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Sanity is Optional

[Aztek]

Man I’m trying really hard to see how that would work? I think I have an idea but think the washer contact area is too small for let’s say an elbow joint.  It might need to be a rubber spacer 1cm wide or so.

[Sanity is Optional]

4 hours ago, Aztek said:

Man I’m trying really hard to see how that would work? I think I have an idea but think the washer contact area is too small for let’s say an elbow joint.  It might need to be a rubber spacer 1cm wide or so.

Yeah, for a shoulder something more like the ratchet above makes sense. I was thinking more for the fingers where there's not much volume available.

[nightmareB4macross]

The hand looks amazing! Finally after all these years Axtel has created the perfect hand.

Looking over reference material the hand is still a tad small. You could gain more space in the storage cavity if you create the proper sliding mechanism to retract the hand. 
 

Use the x-ray poster as your reference and you’ll see what I mean. 
 

Can’t wait to see more.

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by nightmareB4macross

[Aztek]

@nightmareB4macross do you have a link to the poster you are talking about?

 

[nightmareB4macross]

It’s from the Macross DYRL Gold Book.

The flip style wrists have always been done incorrectly since the old 1/55. And there have been covers. What people actually saw were the fingers that appeared to be slats or a striped panel.

Hope this helps.

[sqidd]

@Aztek do you by any chance have any fixed posed hands modeled? IDK if you saw the adapters I drew up that allow the use of DX hands on a Yammies. I'd like to do some adapters/hands for the Yamacadaia 1/60 stuff with Chicken hands (Zero stuff for example). The DX 1/48 hands are too big. And in most cases would need to be painted, which I know I wouldn't want to do.

Do you think it's possible to scale those super cool hands of yours down to 1/48? The DX articulated hands "can't" be used on the Yamato's because the pin/slot for the gun is different. It would be really nice to have 1/48 articulated hands. I think at that size metal pins would have to be used though.

Thanks!

[nightmareB4macross]

Hi Aztek,

He means like this. Or maybe some other poses.

[Chronocidal]

I think the big question is.. is the hand capable of holding a pose that will allow it to fill the back of the arm that way, so a panel is not necessary?  Will the thumb fit into the fist enough to allow the hand to actually be block-shaped?

 

[Aztek]

Thanks for all the references and input.  Need to go back and look at the joints and see if its possible.  The thumb and pinky will be the challenge.

[nightmareB4macross]

5 hours ago, Aztek said:

Thanks for all the references and input.  Need to go back and look at the joints and see if its possible.  The thumb and pinky will be the challenge.

The hand will fit. All you need to do is rework this are circled in red as well as the palm to thumb section.The center  part of the thumb should have a rotating joint. 

With this adjustment you can also achieve the proper orientation as seen in the line art.