Mospeada

[jenius]

What show is this weekend?

[505thAirborne]

Those Robotech VHS tapes take me back, I remember seeing those for sale at Pony Toy Go Round in Little Tokyo. (When they were still in the Yaohan Plaza. 

I still have my GITS VHS as well! 

[derex3592]

I had those white Robotech VHS as well, the whole series of Southern Cross and New Generation. I had to save up money each month and get my mom or dad to take me to Borders Books and Music to buy them, they were the only place that carried them. 

[tekering]

On 6/26/2017 at 11:40 AM, derex3592 said:

Those last two shots REALLY show off the detail and color improvement on the blurays!

What we've been watching on DVD for the past decade or so (be it Mospeada or Robotech: Remastered) turns out to be quite poor in the color department.

Here's a side-by-side from the end of the aforementioned episode 8:

Can you guess which image comes from the Blu-ray?  (Hint: the Invid "Gurab" are supposed to be purple.)

2 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

I still have my GITS VHS as well! 

Incidentally, Ghost in the Shell 2.0 is also worth the Blu-ray upgrade.  

[JetJockey]

5 hours ago, jenius said:

What show is this weekend?

 

I thought both Wonder Festival and Anime Expo were this weekend. But it's just Anime Expo.

 

5 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

Those Robotech VHS tapes take me back, I remember seeing those for sale at Pony Toy Go Round in Little Tokyo. (When they were still in the Yaohan Plaza. 

I still have my GITS VHS as well! 

 

I couldn't bring myself to get rid of my Ghost in the Shell VHS even though I have it on other formats. Usually it's just nostalgia or some extras. I did sell some other older anime VHS titles though after upgrading to DVD.

[tekering]

While I'm doing comparisons, I thought my fellow Mospeada fans would be interested in seeing how Wave's 1:72 Legioss model compares with the old Imai release.  While Imai produced kits of all three modes in this scale, Wave's Legioss is "Armo-Soldier" only.  

None of these kits are currently in production, and aftermarket prices are always in flux; the most readily available to me was Aoshima's release of the Imai kit from a decade ago (specifically, Houquet's "Zeta").  Wave's "Iota" was the cheapest of theirs I could find, so we're comparing a vintage red kit with a modern green one.

While the Wave's only slightly taller than the Imai, individual parts and proportions vary wildly from each other.  The Wave has larger shoulders, wider legs, a much larger nosecone on the back, and absurdly large hands, required to carry that massive gunpod of his:

The Imai has a wider chest, very small hands, and a ridiculously tiny gunpod that can't be held properly unless it's glued into the hand...  

Other than a little black wash to bring out some of the sculpted detail, I haven't applied any paint to these kits yet.  What you see is the color of the plastic the parts were cast in -- green, white and blue for the Wave kit, and red for the Imai -- and clearly, both will require substantial painting.  There are white parts of the Wave kit that need to be painted green, and green parts that need to be painted white, so it matters little what colors the parts were cast in; everything's gonna need paint anyway.

As is typical of '80s kits, the Imai is rife with unsightly seam lines and misaligned panel details, and will definitely require a lot of cleanup work before painting; the Wave does a better job of hiding most of the seams, making it easier to build and requiring less glue to assemble.

Also typical of modern Japanese kits, the Wave uses plenty of PVC poly-capped joints to aid in articulation.  The Imai is well-articulated for its time, but can't compare with the poseability of  a modern robot kit.

However, fans will notice a lot more deviation from the animation line art when it comes to sculpted detail on the Wave -- the shoulders, legs and feet in particular -- and there are a lot of recessed panel lines that don't exist in any other depiction of the Legioss.  If you want your model to be anime-accurate, you'll probably want to sand off or fill in some of those egregious details with putty and paint over them.

I haven't decided exactly how I want to proceed with my build from here, but I'll probably do some mixing-and-matching of parts to come up with the most accurate Armo-Soldier I can.  The chest intakes and shoulder-mounted sensor array are more accurate on the Imai, but I prefer the overall proportions and the articulation of the Wave kit.  Neither kit comes with adequate hands, so I'll likely use 1:144 scale Gunpla aftermarket hands instead.  The feet on the Imai kit are closer to the animation model, but I prefer the aesthetics of the boots on the Wave... but those "treads" have got to go!  

Edited June 29, 2017 by tekering

[Convectuoso]

Group shot!

[derex3592]

Always wanted that Yellow in the dress figure, never did find one...and what happened to Jim/Lunk???!!! NO love for the big guy ever! 

[jenius]

CMs were dedicated completists... it's surprising we never got a Jim with Jeep.

[Convectuoso]

3 hours ago, derex3592 said:

Always wanted that Yellow in the dress figure, never did find one...and what happened to Jim/Lunk???!!! NO love for the big guy ever! 

 

47 minutes ago, jenius said:

CMs were dedicated completists... it's surprising we never got a Jim with Jeep.

Jim/Lunk and an Aisha/Ariel figure would have been just perfect to complete the set.

 

[tekering]

10 hours ago, Convectuoso said:

That's a funky-looking Rey...  Is he a custom?

7 hours ago, jenius said:

we never got a Jim

10 hours ago, derex3592 said:

NO love for the big guy ever! 

Well, there's always --

 

[ . . . ]

 

Never mind.  

[Convectuoso]

4 hours ago, tekering said:

That's a funky-looking Rey...  Is he a custom?

No. Is the CMs Ride Armor. The Yellow figure comes with alternative heads without helmets for Yellow, Stick and Ley

[tekering]

OMG, here they are!  I'd completely forgotten about their existence.  

They're all so profoundly different from each other, it's hard to believe they were even produced by the same company... let alone within a year of each other.  

Anyway, I figure I can kitbash an accurate 1:72 Armo-Diver without needing to replace the existing Wave hands:

They don't look so disproportionately large in this mode, do they...?

[jenius]

That heads picture wins creepiest post of the day. The gashapon faces are definitely a big improvement.

[tekering]

So now we come to the real reason I bought that vintage Imai 3-in-1 kit, and that's for the 1:72 fighter:

Every other toy or model kit representation of the Legioss has favored the Armo-Soldier mode, which means fighter mode (if it's even capable of transformation) is plagued by a short, round nosecone, large arms overwhelming the fuselage, and legs that dominate the back half of the jet (usually amounting to nearly 50% of the volume).  The tail fins are never canted at the right angle, the fuselage is never straight along the horizontal axis, and the feet always stick out much too far.  This vintage kit is the most (if not the only) accurate Armo-Fighter ever produced.

Here you can see the engines in proper proportion to the rest of the fighter, as depicted in the original designs and in animation.  The engine nacelles have realistic depth to them, and the tail fins sit at the proper angle.  

The underside cleans up nicely, and the legs appear to be folded up in a way that no engineer has ever managed to achieve in a transformable toy.  Also, we see why the gunpod appeared so ridiculously small on the vintage Armo-Soldier kit; it was clearly scaled for fighter mode instead, and under the wing it looks pretty close to the size it was drawn in the animation model sheets.

You can see where guide holes have been placed to install landing gear, or panels to conceal it (if you want to pose it in flight), and I intend to keep both display options viable.  

It's not perfect, of course -- the cockpit is severely lacking in detail, and the pilot seat is much further forward than it should be -- but compared to the 1:72 Armo-Diver or Armo-Soldier kits (or the 1:48 transformable models), this one's far more accurate, easier to construct and paint, and ultimately much more satisfying.  Of all the Mospeada kits I've bought and put together over the years, this one gets my highest recommendation.  

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some painting to do...!  

[derex3592]

I agree, that fighter mode is very close to being what I consider dead on for the anime...most of the time. Can't wait to see it all painted up! 

[Mazinger]

18 hours ago, tekering said:

That's a funky-looking Rey...  Is he a custom?

Well, there's always --

Continue 9.. 8.. 7..       Insert Coin

You must defeat Shen Long to stand a chance"

[derex3592]

He's just such a sad little tragic figure...it looks like he has giant  head syndrome!

[no3Ljm]

6 hours ago, tekering said:

So now we come to the real reason I bought that vintage Imai 3-in-1 kit, and that's for the 1:72 fighter:

Every other toy or model kit representation of the Legioss has favored the Armo-Soldier mode, which means fighter mode (if it's even capable of transformation) is plagued by a short, round nosecone, large arms overwhelming the fuselage, and legs that dominate the back half of the jet (usually amounting to nearly 50% of the volume).  The tail fins are never canted at the right angle, the fuselage is never straight along the horizontal axis, and the feet always stick out much too far.  This vintage kit is the most (if not the only) accurate Armo-Fighter ever produced.

Here you can see the engines in proper proportion to the rest of the fighter, as depicted in the original designs and in animation.  The engine nacelles have realistic depth to them, and the tail fins sit at the proper angle.  

The underside cleans up nicely, and the legs appear to be folded up in a way that no engineer has ever managed to achieve in a transformable toy.  Also, we see why the gunpod appeared so ridiculously small on the vintage Armo-Soldier kit; it was clearly scaled for fighter mode instead, and under the wing it looks pretty close to the size it was drawn in the animation model sheets.

You can see where guide holes have been placed to install landing gear, or panels to conceal it (if you want to pose it in flight), and I intend to keep both display options viable.  

It's not perfect, of course -- the cockpit is severely lacking in detail, and the pilot seat is much further forward than it should be -- but compared to the 1:72 Armo-Diver or Armo-Soldier kits (or the 1:48 transformable models), this one's far more accurate, easier to construct and paint, and ultimately much more satisfying.  Of all the Mospeada kits I've bought and put together over the years, this one gets my highest recommendation.  

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some painting to do...!  

Great review, tekering. I used to have those kits back in the day too. 1984 to be exact.  But ofcourse, it all end up in the trash can. I mean, what do you expect from a 9 year old boy back then, right? Think about the future for toy investing? Hehehe.

But yeah, that one has a great Armo-Fighter profile. Wish some company will create a 'perfect' one. Though I'm still looking forward seeing reviews for the Evolution Toys. 

 

[danth]

15 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

But yeah, that one has a great Armo-Fighter profile. Wish some company will create a 'perfect' one.

I'd love it if some toy maker essentially started with this Armo-Fighter kit and worked backwards to a transformable toy without changing the fighter mode proportions at all. 

[derex3592]

Bandai would be probably our best and only shot that I would trust to pull off such a feat.  Heck, I would just take an awesome modern day 1:48 or 1:35 even scale model kit for all 3 modes, doesn't have to be a transforming model! 

 

 

[505thAirborne]

^^ 1/35 Scale for sure! That's why the Gakken's were so awesome! 

[derex3592]

Exactly!!! 

[no3Ljm]

1 hour ago, 505thAirborne said:

^^ 1/35 Scale for sure! That's why the Gakken's were so awesome! 

Curious. How big is the 1/35 Legioss against a 1/60 VF-1 side-by-side?

 

[Tober]

1 hour ago, derex3592 said:

Heck, I would just take an awesome modern day 1:48 or 1:35 even scale model kit for all 3 modes, doesn't have to be a transforming model! 

Isn't that what Captain America's kit was?

Edited June 30, 2017 by Tober

[derex3592]

His was absolutely gorgeous, no doubt about that, just out of most people's price range, and I don't believe I ever saw pics of a completed one around here unfortunately..

[Tober]

 

5 minutes ago, derex3592 said:

His was absolutely gorgeous, no doubt about that, just out of most people's price range, and I don't believe I ever saw pics of a completed one around here unfortunately..

 

Yeah, price was a problem. And resin kits aren't easy to build.  

[505thAirborne]

17 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

Curious. How big is the 1/35 Legioss against a 1/60 VF-1 side-by-side?

 

My old Gakken is boxed up in the garage, but if you put it next to a 1/60 VF-1 I'd say the 1/35 Legioss is maybe 3 or 4 inches taller. It's a good sized toy. 

 

[captain america]

24 minutes ago, derex3592 said:

His was absolutely gorgeous, no doubt about that, just out of most people's price range, and I don't believe I ever saw pics of a completed one around here unfortunately..

Mike Salzo had built/painted his a few years back. Here are some pics I saved of his completed model. 

[captain america]

2 hours ago, danth said:

I'd love it if some toy maker essentially started with this Armo-Fighter kit and worked backwards to a transformable toy without changing the fighter mode proportions at all. 

It's all a matter of compromise, simply because maximizing one mode invariably detracts from the other, and people generally prefer Soldier mode. Trust me, I spent weeks and weeks trying different combinations to get something harmonious! All things considered, I think I did a respectable job. This is my "Soldier-Mode Only" 1/48 kit. While not variable, the proportions are identical to my 1/32 version, so you can see that while not nearly as streamlined as the fixed Imai 1/72, it gets pretty close and no parts-morphing needed. 

[Tober]

4 hours ago, captain america said:

It's all a matter of compromise, simply because maximizing one mode invariably detracts from the other, and people generally prefer Soldier mode. Trust me, I spent weeks and weeks trying different combinations to get something harmonious! All things considered, I think I did a respectable job. This is my "Soldier-Mode Only" 1/48 kit. While not variable, the proportions are identical to my 1/32 version, so you can see that while not nearly as streamlined as the fixed Imai 1/72, it gets pretty close and no parts-morphing needed. 

---

---

---

 

 

 

That is pretty nice.

 

Weren't there builds of your larger kit in fighter mode?

[captain america]

56 minutes ago, Tober said:

 

That is pretty nice.

 

Weren't there builds of your larger kit in fighter mode?

Maybe, but not that I've seen. The 1/32 kits were quite pricy and I reckon that the 2 dozen owners won't be tackling their prized possessions frivolously. Some may even be waiting to perfect their skills before touching it.

[tekering]

So, we know scale can be somewhat questionable when it comes to anime, and Mospeada is no exception.  Both Imai and Wave followed the official stats to the letter, so the Legioss models are exactly the height they're supposed to be for 1:72 scale...

...which frankly, doesn't look nearly large enough compared to other 1:72 figures and accessories.  

Assuming Imai's human figure is exactly six feet tall in armor, he's precisely 1:72 scale... but there's no way he's gonna fit in that cockpit!

Conversely, the pilot figure from the kit (that does fit in the cockpit) is the size of a small child.  Wave's Mospeada ride armor accessory is smaller still -- nowhere near 1:72 scale, obviously -- but they had to scale it down so it would fit in the Armo-Soldier chest cavity...

So the official stats are bullshit, and should be thrown out the window.

18 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

How big is the 1/35 Legioss against a 1/60 VF-1 side-by-side?

Almost exactly the same height, actually:

Again, assuming the included pilot figure is six feet tall, he's exactly 1:35 scale; and again, the robot looks a little small by comparison (but that could be just the awkward Gakken proportions).

18 hours ago, Tober said:

Isn't that what Captain America's kit was?

Captain America did a 1:32 and a 1:48 Legioss, but his measurements weren't based on the official stats; he also concluded they were bullshit, and threw them out the window.

18 hours ago, captain america said:

I spent weeks and weeks trying different combinations to get something harmonious! All things considered, I think I did a respectable job.

For a fully scratch-built garage kit, you did an incredible job!  

Incidentally, Cap'n, what did you decide the adjusted Legioss height should actually be?

[derex3592]

19 hours ago, captain america said:

Mike Salzo had built/painted his a few years back. Here are some pics I saved of his completed model. 

My God.....it's full of WIN!!!

[505thAirborne]

2 hours ago, tekering said:

So, we know scale can be somewhat questionable when it comes to anime, and Mospeada is no exception.  Both Imai and Wave followed the official stats to the letter, so the Legioss models are exactly the height they're supposed to be for 1:72 scale...

...which frankly, doesn't look nearly large enough compared to other 1:72 figures and accessories.  

Assuming Imai's human figure is exactly six feet tall in armor, he's precisely 1:72 scale... but there's no way he's gonna fit in that cockpit!

Conversely, the pilot figure from the kit (that does fit in the cockpit) is the size of a small child.  Wave's Mospeada ride armor accessory is smaller still -- nowhere near 1:72 scale, obviously -- but they had to scale it down so it would fit in the Armo-Soldier chest cavity...

So the official stats are bullshit, and should be thrown out the window.

Almost exactly the same height, actually:

Well all be damned, It's truly been a while since I've had my Gakken Legioss out on display. I figured it was taller than that.