Mospeada

[CoryHolmes]

I really do like the proportions of the MPC Alpha toys.  And the Maia colours look sweet, though I'm not willing to pay for them

[505thAirborne]

Luckily I got this fairly cheap! Last year these were selling for about $85.00, now they're on Ebay for about $200.00.... didn't either of those prices! 

[Lorindor]

I would want Maia's Shadow Fighter as well, but the prices these days are way too high.

[no3Ljm]

17 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

My newest addition! The colors look really good together in person IMO! 

Love that color on Legioss. Always reminds me of Skywarp.

Does it come with lots of tampos or some of them are stickers?

 

[505thAirborne]

2 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Love that color on Legioss. Always reminds me of Skywarp.

Does it come with lots of tampos or some of them are stickers?

 

It is reminiscent of Skywarp, I think that's why I like it.

The B&W stripes & Squadron insignia on the right wing might be tampo, everything else for sure is stickers. Luckily the previous owner put them on properly. 

[Sandman]

On 6/11/2017 at 4:26 PM, 505thAirborne said:

My newest addition! The colors look really good together in person IMO! 

 

I have one of these I bought for $70 (in CAD funds no less). Never taken it out of the box in fear of it crumbling apart as I heard happened to many other. I liked the scheme though. Something Robotech actually did right. I was curious to see the toy version of Marcus's color scheme. That never did get released along with the shadow beta(s?)?

[505thAirborne]

@Sandman. I got lucky with this one, $60.00 shipped. Paint wise mine is good, still has the defective crumble hands though. Definitely a shame about the Marcus Legioss and Shadow Beta, those were instant buys for me! 

 

[Sandman]

Damn that shadow beta is sexy. Shame the Betas were shelf warmers. Probably the best toynami toy ever. Though that's not saying much.

[CoryHolmes]

It's really hard to screw up a Beta toy, though.  It's the definition of 'brick with wings'. 

[mechaninac]

They did somewhat screw up on the Beta on 3 points:  The limited range of motion of the head, the lack of opening top shoulder missile hatches (present on the CMs version), and the omission of a cockpit "box" cover for the cockpit when in Armo-Soldier mode... to mote closely match the line art.  They did nail it down in everything else, though... far better IMO, at least in looks and its Alpha connectivity, than the CMs.

It's also likely it will remain the best Beta/Tread toy made, perhaps ever... ET's upcoming Legioss is just too big, and its quality too much of an unkownn in light of their lackluster VF-2SS toys, to expect a link capable Tread will ever be produced.

If only Banday, or MegaHouse, or Arcadia would take a stab at toys from this license...

[jenius]

While a bit simple in execution, I liked their interpretation of different heads. What we need is someone who builds a legioss with the idea it will connect Tread from the beginning.  Make some clasps, slots,  or pegs on the Legioss and keep it light. That was the biggest travesty of the CMs toy... It's like they had  no idea the toys were supposed to connect. 

[Lorindor]

Oh, the Toynami Beta fighter is one of my favorite transforming toys. While it had some issues (on top of the ones mechaninac listed, I'd add that some painted surfaces are easily scratched), but it's so fun to handle.

[derex3592]

It's really to bad the CM guys and the Toynami guys couldn't have put their heads together for the Beta, both Betas had their good and bad points.  This thread got me looking around at Mospeada pics on the net, say what you want, but Gakken still came pretty darn close all those tears ago, remember this custom blue one from a few years back? Also, some random Mospeada art...

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by derex3592

[tekering]

I've finally acquired Mospeada on Blu-ray!  

I thought you guys might be interested in an objective* comparison to ADV's 2003 DVD release:

Immediately, you will notice a substantial difference in color.

The Blu-rays have a slightly greenish tint to them:

...whereas ADV's prints have a substantial blue tint to them.

This is most obvious when comparing the neutral background of the eyecatch:

...which appeared powder blue on ADV's DVD release!

It has a substantial effect on skin tones as well:

...and even eye color is affected.

Comparing onscreen graphics reveals a slight difference in framing:

You see ADV's prints favor the top of the frame, while the Blu–rays feature more image at the bottom.

The difference in picture quality suggests that ADV had a lot of digital clean-up performed to remove film grain and noise.  While detail is much sharper on the high-definition masters for the Blu-ray, there's a lot more dirt evident as well... and, most importantly, there are frame guides visible on the first and last frame of EVERY shot.

ADV seems to have removed these entirely.

For those of you not familiar with old-school anime production methods, it's important to remember that everything was shot and edited manually on film -- as quickly and cheaply as possible, I might add -- and Tatsunoko in particular was known for leaving these framing marks visible for a split-second on every cut.  I first became aware of them myself when viewing Macross on Laserdisc, so I knew what Carl Macek was talking about when he mentioned them at Anime Expo '92.

It seems Macek had decided to re-frame Tatsunoko's footage to remove these frame guides when creating Robotech, cropping off the edges of the frame by zooming in on the image.  Here's what Robotech's original broadcast masters looked like:**

While I was appalled when first hearing about this, I have gradually come to accept Macek's decision; when you start to notice them, those framing marks get REALLY distracting.  Unfortunately, the Blu-rays are lousy with 'em.

Furthermore, there's a lot more instability between frames as well, with flickering evident in darker scenes and a slightly shaky image throughout.  The added clarity and more accurate color reproduction is a major advantage, but the lack of noise reduction results in grainy, unstable images instead.

Oh, and there's no foreign-language content whatsoever, of course, which means Japanese fans are likely the only ones debating these issues anyway.  

 

* I say "objective" because all the images in this post were generated by the same software, without any compensating filters or color-correction added, so you see them exactly as VLC 2.2.5 displays them.

** Note I superimposed the analog image over ADV's Robotech Remastered DVD, to demonstrate how much of the original image was lost on TV.

[derex3592]

Interesting information there. The best quality I've seen for the anime was on my Robotech Remastered DVD's which video wise are pretty good IMHO, and I'm a A/V production guy for a living.  The re-edited sound effects drive me completely INSANE however. I'll prob never own the Blu-Ray's of Mospeada, but it does look like the color is better for sure! Thanks for the comparisons!

 

 

[CoryHolmes]

8 hours ago, derex3592 said:

 The re-edited sound effects drive me completely INSANE however.

Ain't that the truth?  Robotech was braised onto my youngling brain with a firey intensity and watching the original language shows is bad enough, but the redone sound effects are just wrong!

[tekering]

Yeah, ADV sure screwed up the audio adding those cheap digital sound effects.  It's a shame, really, since the Robotech audio had some terrific music cues -- arguably better than the original Mospeada BGM -- and better casting, too.  Annie isn't nearly as obnoxious to listen to as Mint, and Lancer has a much more appropriate voice (for a female impersonator) than the ridiculously masculine voice Yellow has.

If only Macek hadn't insisted on spoiling every single moment of quiet reflection with offscreen dialogue, interior monologues, and redundant narration...  

Edited June 22, 2017 by tekering

[davidwhangchoi]

20 hours ago, derex3592 said:

Interesting information there. The best quality I've seen for the anime was on my Robotech Remastered DVD's which video wise are pretty good IMHO, and I'm a A/V production guy for a living.  The re-edited sound effects drive me completely INSANE however. I'll prob never own the Blu-Ray's of Mospeada, but it does look like the color is better for sure! Thanks for the comparisons!

i hated the re-mastered audio. forced me to hunt down the old untouched original sets. 

 

[505thAirborne]

I still have my ADV Films DVD's and is the only way to enjoy it. While it'd be great to have that Blu Ray quality, the new sounds effects are simply retched.

[sh9000]

Bandai HMR Mospeada would be nice.

[JetJockey]

I have a feeling a Robotech Blu-ray will be coming regardless of what was said in the past. Anime Expo and Comic Con are coming up soon. I would bet in the next few years we'll see it. Those Mospeada images look great. I'm always surprised when shows get cut down like that.

[tekering]

11 hours ago, JetJockey said:

I have a feeling a Robotech Blu-ray will be coming regardless of what was said in the past.

Not unless Southern Cross gets remastered for a Japanese Blu-ray release first... which remains unlikely.

Harmony Gold could always pay to have Tatsunoko's film prints remastered in HD, of course... but that's even more unlikely.

16 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

While it'd be great to have that Blu Ray quality, the new sounds effects are simply retched.

Yeah, I'd hope a Blu-ray release would ditch the "Remastered" sound mix.

13 hours ago, sh9000 said:

Bandai HMR Mospeada would be nice.

They'd have to abandon the scale they've established for the Macross line, though...  Otherwise they'd be some pretty tiny Mospeada toys!

[Lorindor]

tekering, I don't think the Xabungle and Dougram HMRs aren't the same scale as the Macross HMRs, so there should be nothing strange in adjusting the sizes for MOSPEADA.

[sh9000]

4 hours ago, tekering said:

They'd have to abandon the scale they've established for the Macross line, though...  Otherwise they'd be some pretty tiny Mospeada toys!

 

4 hours ago, Lorindor said:

tekering, the Xabungle and Dougram HMRs aren't the same scale as the Macross HMRs, so there should be nothing strange in adjusting the sizes for MOSPEADA.

This.

Edited June 23, 2017 by sh9000

[captain america]

On 6/20/2017 at 10:49 PM, tekering said:

I've finally acquired Mospeada on Blu-ray!  

I thought you guys might be interested in an objective* comparison to ADV's 2003 DVD release:

Immediately, you will notice a substantial difference in color.

The Blu-rays have a slightly greenish tint to them:

...whereas ADV's prints have a substantial blue tint to them.

This is most obvious when comparing the neutral background of the eyecatch:

...which appeared powder blue on ADV's DVD release!

It has a substantial effect on skin tones as well:

...and even eye color is affected.

Comparing onscreen graphics reveals a slight difference in framing:

You see ADV's prints favor the top of the frame, while the Blu–rays feature more image at the bottom.

The difference in picture quality suggests that ADV had a lot of digital clean-up performed to remove film grain and noise.  While detail is much sharper on the high-definition masters for the Blu-ray, there's a lot more dirt evident as well... and, most importantly, there are frame guides visible on the first and last frame of EVERY shot.

ADV seems to have removed these entirely.

For those of you not familiar with old-school anime production methods, it's important to remember that everything was shot and edited manually on film -- as quickly and cheaply as possible, I might add -- and Tatsunoko in particular was known for leaving these framing marks visible for a split-second on every cut.  I first became aware of them myself when viewing Macross on Laserdisc, so I knew what Carl Macek was talking about when he mentioned them at Anime Expo '92.

It seems Macek had decided to re-frame Tatsunoko's footage to remove these frame guides when creating Robotech, cropping off the edges of the frame by zooming in on the image.  Here's what Robotech's original broadcast masters looked like:**

While I was appalled when first hearing about this, I have gradually come to accept Macek's decision; when you start to notice them, those framing marks get REALLY distracting.  Unfortunately, the Blu-rays are lousy with 'em.

Furthermore, there's a lot more instability between frames as well, with flickering evident in darker scenes and a slightly shaky image throughout.  The added clarity and more accurate color reproduction is a major advantage, but the lack of noise reduction results in grainy, unstable images instead.

Oh, and there's no foreign-language content whatsoever, of course, which means Japanese fans are likely the only ones debating these issues anyway.  

 

* I say "objective" because all the images in this post were generated by the same software, without any compensating filters or color-correction added, so you see them exactly as VLC 2.2.5 displays them.

** Note I superimposed the analog image over ADV's Robotech Remastered DVD, to demonstrate how much of the original image was lost on TV.

Thanks for taking the time to bring us that comparison, it's quite revealing.

After seeing this, I will likely just stick with the DVD. I may be branded a heretic for saying this, but none of these animated series were made to be viewed in HD. When watching it on an old CRT, the image has a slight fuzziness that makes most of the imperfections less evident, and that's the way I remember it from my childhood. Watching many old series in HD seems like being thrust from the 10th row of a concert to within 10 inches of the actors' faces, and you see lots of things you simply weren't meant to see, and in some ways, that ruins the experience. As for the color differences, I'll just adjust the color balance on my monitor and be happy with that.

[derex3592]

I totally hear what you are saying on that part. Going OT here, if you grew up watching old school cartoons, do yourself one favor, pickup the Blu Ray Volume One Of Tom and Jerry cartoons. That is a premium example of how good a proper restoration can look. The quality of the cartoons is simply stunning....and they are uncut and not PC at all!  Which is fantastic in this day and age. Apparently Volume 2 getting released is bogged down with legal issues...grrrr....

[Sandman]

So why did they decided to change the sound fx for the robotech remaster? And why couldn't they use/find the same sounds.

[JetJockey]

13 hours ago, tekering said:

Not unless Southern Cross gets remastered for a Japanese Blu-ray release first... which remains unlikely.

Harmony Gold could always pay to have Tatsunoko's film prints remastered in HD, of course... but that's even more unlikely.

 

A lot of vintage anime is getting the Blu-ray treatment. I wouldn't be surprised if Southern Cross happens. It would be a crime if only 2 or the 3 series make it to Blu-ray and then Harmony Gold sits on their hands once again doing nothing.

 

5 hours ago, captain america said:

Thanks for taking the time to bring us that comparison, it's quite revealing.

After seeing this, I will likely just stick with the DVD. I may be branded a heretic for saying this, but none of these animated series were made to be viewed in HD. When watching it on an old CRT, the image has a slight fuzziness that makes most of the imperfections less evident, and that's the way I remember it from my childhood. Watching many old series in HD seems like being thrust from the 10th row of a concert to within 10 inches of the actors' faces, and you see lots of things you simply weren't meant to see, and in some ways, that ruins the experience. As for the color differences, I'll just adjust the color balance on my monitor and be happy with that.

I still have my TV recordings of Robotech on VHS. I seem to pop that in every year.

[Convectuoso]

21 minutes ago, Sandman said:

So why did they decided to change the sound fx for the robotech remaster? And why couldn't they use/find the same sounds.

Because they wanted to take advantage of the 5.1 audio capabilities of DVD. It went terribly, though 

[tekering]

12 hours ago, captain america said:

I may be branded a heretic for saying this, but none of these animated series were made to be viewed in HD. When watching it on an old CRT, the image has a slight fuzziness that makes most of the imperfections less evident, and that's the way I remember it from my childhood. Watching many old series in HD seems like being thrust from the 10th row of a concert to within 10 inches of the actors' faces, and you see lots of things you simply weren't meant to see, and in some ways, that ruins the experience.

I suppose it depends on what you're looking at, Cap'n.  If your focus is on the mecha or the character interaction in the foreground, there's not a lot of clarity to be gained in HD, and the story can be appreciated just as well in standard definition (with less distracting dirt and film grain).

If, however, your focus is on setting, mood, or production design, the HD upgrade makes a huge difference.  There's far more detail visible in the backgrounds, where the real strength of the series lies -- its rich, atmospheric post-apocalyptic setting -- and here, color and contrast play a significant role in establishing Mospeada's unique visual style.  Unlike similar '80s anime series, like Fist of the North Star, Southern Cross, or the latter segments of Macross, the post-war world of Mospeada isn't just a barren, grey wasteland.

I'm only six episodes in so far, but I'm amazed by the rich production design work visible in the backgrounds:

7 hours ago, JetJockey said:

I still have my TV recordings of Robotech on VHS. I seem to pop that in every year.

VHS?  In this day-and-age?  Good grief, are you missing out...!  

To demonstrate, here's the same image from Robotech on VHS:

Seriously, come join us in the 21st century.

These are just a few choice screen grabs from episode 6, demonstrating the diversity of color and detail evident even within a single setting.

I can't wait to see how the alien environments look in HD!  

[derex3592]

I've always loved the visual style of Mospeada. Feel free to keep posting those gorgeous pics! 

[JetJockey]

14 hours ago, tekering said:

I'm only six episodes in so far, but I'm amazed by the rich production design work visible in the backgrounds:

VHS?  In this day-and-age?  Good grief, are you missing out...!  

To demonstrate, here's the same image from Robotech on VHS:

Seriously, come join us in the 21st century.

These are just a few choice screen grabs from episode 6, demonstrating the diversity of color and detail evident even within a single setting.

I can't wait to see how the alien environments look in HD!  

 

And my VHS copies don't even look as good as the image you posted since I recorded on VHS at the longest setting. It is my version of Southern Cross and New Generation. They aren't complete and have a few American stinger bits, I think they are called, right before the show goes to and comes back from commercials.  I wish I could own some background cels from Mospeada though. They are well done. I saw this recently but didn't try for it.

 

[tekering]

22 hours ago, derex3592 said:

I've always loved the visual style of Mospeada. Feel free to keep posting those gorgeous pics! 

Sure.  Episode 8 opens with this striking image, a slow pan across the desert:

I like the composition of this shot, which pans away from the helmet in the extreme foreground and into the deep desert beyond, eventually revealing the jeep entering frame from the opposite direction.  The juxtaposition of static foreground elements and moving background elements is awesome.  

Here's another composite image, our first and only look at Mars Base in the series:

I love the angles in this shot, the harsh vertical lines of the buildings contrasting with the sharp curve of the elevated train tracks, those huge underground structures obliquely lit with bold splashes of color, and that massive, impossibly high screen the camera tilts up to reveal.  It's a spectacular setting, completely at odds with anything else seen in Mospeada, and it helps us to understand the difficultly Stig Bernard must face trying to adjust to life on an unfamiliar world.  The environment where he grew up is totally different from the post-war Earth he finds himself in, and this single image expresses that concept far better than any dialogue could hope to. 

Oh, this episode also features Stig's first look at an Invid hive.

More HD goodness to come!  

19 hours ago, JetJockey said:

I recorded on VHS at the longest setting. 

OMG, "extended play?"  You're bringing back traumatic memories from childhood...  Imma sue you for PTSD!  

[derex3592]

SLP or EP vhs recordings...gag!!

 

WOW...Those last two shots REALLY show off the detail and color improvement on the blurays! I'm impressed! 

[JetJockey]

On 6/25/2017 at 11:02 AM, tekering said:

"extended play?"  You're bringing back traumatic memories from childhood...  Imma sue you for PTSD!  

 

I hope this doesn't push you further over. A small sample of what I still have.

 

 

On 6/25/2017 at 9:40 PM, derex3592 said:

SLP or EP vhs recordings...gag!!

I think blank VHS tapes were expensive back then. Or at least I would almost always use the long setting because I either wasn't noticing the difference or I just thought a few episodes versus a whole bunch. A young kid didn't really give too much thought to this stuff then.

 

I hope we get some Mospeada news at the show in Japan this weekend. There should be something good coming out of there.