Mospeada

[Mommar]

6 hours ago, jenius said:

Negative, they really haven't made any official indication that a Tread is a thought... but there was mention of the Legioss being made with the concept of a Tread in mind and it was possible if the Legioss sold really well. It seems unlikely there will be shows any time soon so curious how we'll get updates if they do decide to do it! We know next up on the hype train is the Zeta and Houquet ride armor so we probably have a long time before a Tread is teased. 

God, remember when CM's developed a Legioss and a Tread concurrently and then they still didn't connect in fighter mode??? What a joke!

Given how well they've sold, the fact they clearly designed the attachment for the boom into it and that the "fan art" by the guy they based this design off of (and who did the box art) shows a Tread attached.  I'd give it better than 50%.

[Mog]

Make no mistake:  I absolutely love and adore the Toynami Beta.  

But even I know it can be improved upon, especially with all the gaps in bomber mode (pictures “borrowed”  from Anymoon):

[M'Kyuun]

Will the stand support the Legioss in Soldier mode? The connection in fighter looks solid, but that connection at the VTOL vernier looks dicey to me, at least in pics/vids. 

To my way of thinking, if you're going to design a Legioss, it follows that you'll at least have a plan for a Tread. With all the bells and whistles they incorporated into this design, they kinda had to figure they had a winner on their hands, and so far most of the feedback that I've read has been positive aside from the common issues of tight shoulders, plastic gear, fiddly hip joints, and wing sections that spontaneously eject. Hopefully, Sentinel will address these and other minor issues for the following releases, and in a year or two, roll out a Tread for Stick's ride, complete with Jim, Jim's jeep, as well as Mint, and Aisha, who can fit in the little compartment with the bomb racks on either side.

[VF-Zer0S]

2 hours ago, Mog said:

Yup, that CM's combined fighter mode looks like the Legioss and Tread were on separate shelves:

Not flush with each other at all.

Looks like a jet with a trailer....lol

[Mechapilot77]

love seeing line art but i can see that the proportions are wildly inconsistent and why its so tough to go from 2D to 3Don this mospeada stuff.  also after looking at it some more... the sentinel is even granting generous interpretation departures of the line art...more or less and updated design...in the spirit of the original but not trying to actually be the original design as far as i can tell.  great thread guys

[Mommar]

29 minutes ago, Mechapilot77 said:

love seeing line art but i can see that the proportions are wildly inconsistent and why its so tough to go from 2D to 3Don this mospeada stuff.  also after looking at it some more... the sentinel is even granting generous interpretation departures of the line art...more or less and updated design...in the spirit of the original but not trying to actually be the original design as far as i can tell.  great thread guys

The Sentinel one is not based off of the original lineart.  It's based off of a re-design.

[Guyffon]

20 minutes ago, Mommar said:

The Sentinel one is not based off of the original lineart.  It's based off of a re-design.

Yes that is correct, but yet they kept the shape of fighter mode most true compared to the rest of the offerings by so many various companies

[tekering]

1 hour ago, Guyffon said:

Yes that is correct, but yet they kept the shape of fighter mode most true compared to the rest of the offerings by so many various companies

Not just Armo-Fighter, but the other modes as well...

1 hour ago, Mommar said:

The Sentinel one is not based off of the original lineart.  It's based off of a re-design.

I question this assumption, simply because (as Guyffon noted) it's so accurate to the original design; much more so than any previous toy, in fact.

While Sentinel's ride armor demonstrates several significant departures from the '83 model sheets, their Legioss does not.

[ArchieNov]

9 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Will the stand support the Legioss in Soldier mode? The connection in fighter looks solid, but that connection at the VTOL vernier looks dicey to me, at least in pics/vids. 

You don't stick the stand into that hole when in soldier mode. There's another hole at the bottom of the hip section where the stand goes in. You have to use the included stand adapter (the small one).

[M'Kyuun]

3 hours ago, ArchieNov said:

You don't stick the stand into that hole when in soldier mode. There's another hole at the bottom of the hip section where the stand goes in. You have to use the included stand adapter (the small one).

Thanks for the reply, ArchieNov. So, does that mean a hypothetical Tread would have to partsform its connection point for Soldier as well?  I've never handled a Tread toy, so the connection mechanics, outside of pics, is unknown to me. I'm not a fan of partsforming, but if Sentinel tackled the Tread with the same level of engineering, it seems to me a step back to have that connection require a non-integrated adapter.  When it comes to transformation, I'm of the all or nothing philosophy.

[Mog]

Unless you want a telescoping or segmented connecting boom, there’s not much that can be done, design-wise.

On the Tread, there’s just not that much room for where that boom would have to come out of.

Where Sentinel can improve the design is making a more solid, locking connection between the Tread and Legioss.

A lot of us are speculating that those slots on the arms of the Legioss are additional connecting points.

Both Toynami’s and CM’s connection just kinda “sits” there.  Toynami’s “looks” like the most unified, but you wouldn’t be flipping the combined fighter upside-down.

[vladykins]

Yep- if this connection boom at least tabs in, that's much better than previous. The Toynami one does hold together snug and let you zoom things around while holding the Tread, but I wouldn't roll the whole thing 90 degrees either direction because the legioss is gonna fall out. But it definitely requires a parts-forming boom; I'm not sure a telescoping boom will have good strength; as @Mog notes- there isn't a lot of space in the middle "body" for the boom to fit in:

 

[jenius]

I can confirm that the slots on the forearms have nothing to do with a Tread. Me: "Are these slots for a Tread", someone else "No." Beyond that, I would speculate that Mospeada Breakers will have a Super Legioss or something like that at some point and that those slots will relate to a 'weapons pack' or something in the future. 

I would guess that any Tread toy will come with its own stand. Beyond that, I couldn't speculate much because the engineering of this Legioss toy is so wild, it's really hard to tell how bold Sentinel would be with a Tread. They might do something like make the most complex Tread ever and sell it for $400 because they know only 500 people will buy one but they will pay a lot for it.... or they may make it pretty simple to make it more accessible. They may also choose to make it cheap and heavy parts-forming as part of the model line. Nothing to go off of yet...

Edited July 9, 2020 by jenius

[Mog]

Without the Sentinel in hand, all I can do is speculate.

It just seems like the most logical locking spots:  one under as the connecting boom and two above in the arms. 

The only other potential locking spot I could think of is having the Legioss arm boosters connect into the Tread chest circles.

But a top-down locking connection just seems like the most secure and easiest way to go about it.

Of course, there’s still the question of how to pull off the cockpit and chest.

[Mommar]

10 hours ago, tekering said:

Not just Armo-Fighter, but the other modes as well...

I question this assumption, simply because (as Guyffon noted) it's so accurate to the original design; much more so than any previous toy, in fact.

While Sentinel's ride armor demonstrates several significant departures from the '83 model sheets, their Legioss does not.

But the Legioss does feature the most prominent of departures based on the new artwork.  The torso is longer and the hips don't tuck right below the pec/intakes.  That's s very specific departure from the original lineart and the toy reflects that change.

[sjoebarry]

34 minutes ago, jenius said:

I would guess that any Tread toy will come with its own stand. Beyond that, I couldn't speculate much because the engineering of this Legioss toy is so wild, it's really hard to tell how bold Sentinel would be with a Tread.

How bold could they get with the Tread though?  I mean it’s a pretty simple design compared to any other transforming vehicle that’s been made for Macross or Mospeada. 

[Mog]

There’s not much they can change in the transformation process for the Tread’s arms, legs, and yellow array.  Maybe tweak connection tabs and proportions.

But the improvements and changes will be in the chest, cockpit, and connection to the Legioss.

Sentinel could design it to make the Legioss connect “deeper” into the Tread.

But we’ll see.

[jenius]

Sentinel could work with Aramaki on an 'updated' Tread design... that looks similar to the old design with some departures so we're dealing with lots of unknowns. They could incorporate a hip swing like they did on the Legioss toy to overcome some of the central pivoting which makes that bar tougher to manage. There is a hole located in the gap between the feet in fighter mode (for the soldier/diver adapter) which is a very sturdy connecting point and there's the hole under the VTOL vent that the current fighter mode adapter connects to (less sturdy). There are two tiny slots in under the toe which will almost certainly tab into some portion of a Tread. 

[Hiriyu]

WRT a Sentinal Tread, I think a partsforming boom coupled with a fold down panel that integrates into the gap at the back of the Legioss' calves could result in a pretty secure connection. Make the calve lock panel do double duty as part of the Tread's cockpit transformation.

I'd love to see a functional origami connection boom, but agree that it's not very likely considering the space available in the Tread's undercarriage.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Hiriyu

[jenius]

While I definitely do NOT expect there to be an integrated boom, I do think it's possible, particularly given what this Legioss toy does. The boom could be a sleeve or it could be a pivot (imagine sliding the boom out and there's a pivot at the front cover so that the second half of the boom rotates from within the first half and as it comes up and forward the cover for the boom rotates below this knuckle. Such a mechanism would also have the benefit of allowing two extended positions, one with a slight angle up for soldier mode and one straight forward for fighter mode. This would also allow you to store a landing gear in the knuckle... and would be dope. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by jenius

[danth]

Agreed, integrated boom is possible. It's not very long in the line art. I don't know how long it needs to be to connect to the Legioss in a line art accurate way though.

[sh9000]

Very cool painted work by Timothy Fong.

[Mog]

17 minutes ago, danth said:

Agreed, integrated boom is possible. It's not very long in the line art. I don't know how long it needs to be to connect to the Legioss in a line art accurate way though.

Welp, the good thing is that the Sentinel Legioss legs and feet don’t stick as far out behind the fighter (compared to the Toynami).

Also, the connection point for the stand on the Sentinel is further back on the fighter than the connection point on the Toynami Alpha.

If the Sentinel Legioss sits deeper into the Tread, that’s another factor in shrinking the required length of the boom.

Also, it really all depends on the design choices and transformation processes Sentinel makes for the Tread’s center fuselage.

[sjoebarry]

24 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

Very cool painted work by Timothy Fong.

This if friggin awesome

[sqidd]

3 hours ago, sh9000 said:

Very cool painted work by Timothy Fong.

That's incredible

[tekering]

It takes remarkably steady hands to do that kind of detailed work... but I'm disappointed that Timothy didn't fix some of the deficiencies of the sculpt.

The missile launchers on the front forks, for example:

Mine's far from finished, but that was the first detail I had to fix.  

[M'Kyuun]

15 hours ago, jenius said:

While I definitely do NOT expect there to be an integrated boom, I do think it's possible, particularly given what this Legioss toy does. The boom could be a sleeve or it could be a pivot (imagine sliding the boom out and there's a pivot at the front cover so that the second half of the boom rotates from within the first half and as it comes up and forward the cover for the boom rotates below this knuckle. Such a mechanism would also have the benefit of allowing two extended positions, one with a slight angle up for soldier mode and one straight forward for fighter mode. This would also allow you to store a landing gear in the knuckle... and would be dope. 

You're reading my mind, Jenius.  I was also considering how a rotating connection point might allow for the two configurations without the need for parts-forming. They could also make a telescoping boom, to allow for more compactability within the limited space in the groin section.  When I see the extent of engineering employed in the Legioss, there's a point of pride there, and it's difficult for me to expect less in a follow on toy, especially one that's larger, which affords more room to ply your engineering. I also believe absolutely that they didn't approach the Legioss as a one-off; rather, I believe Sentinel designed their Legioss and a Tread simultaneously to ensure consistency and harmony in the engineering between them, which is the most logical way to approach the total design. Since the Legioss is the more popular mech, it makes sense to release it first, and then follow on with a Tread.  It's my pet theory, but if was a toymaker doing Mospeada toys, I'd design my Legioss and Tread together to make sure the thing works as shown in the anime. The level of engineering that Sentinel brought to the fore with their Legioss only intensifies my belief.

[Snake Eyes]

another thing they could try is have the boom in 2 parts that separate and fold backwards and then up (to under the "Shoulders/wings" area with a telescopic gimmick as well. or maybe telescope out of the knee area (or just to the inside of it) with a swivel mechanism that can joint the 2 halves together.

Im sure they will figure something genius out (if and when they make it)

Edited July 10, 2020 by Snake Eyes

[Snake Eyes]

and just for reference...

[M'Kyuun]

Toynami had the right idea. Their boom just had to be longer than the artwork suggested due to how far back the legs extended on their Legioss' fighter mode. Sentinel has already conquered that hurdle, making adhering to the original concept feasible.  Definitely a step in the right direction, if indeed they're making a Tread. I believe it.

[levzloi]

I think a parts-former solid boom like Toynami may be the most structurally sound idea.  That is if you want to zoom it around and not just display it.  That being said it will be interesting to see what Sentinel comes up with. 

[Mog]

If I was to prioritize the changes/improvements to any potential Tread:

1). Good-looking, solid, LOCKING connection between the Legioss and Tread.  If I wanna pose the combo mid-Immelmann turn, I wanna know it will hold firm. 

2). Transformation process that keeps an appropriately sized cockpit AND the correct looking chest/sternum for Armo-soldier.  Would like to be able to have a same-size pilot in there too, but not a requirement (to have a removable pilot).

3).  No gaps or minimal gaps in bomber mode, especially in the underside behind the cockpit.

4).  Retractable missile racks on the TOPS of the shoulders.

5).  Gatling gun.  Don’t care if it’s canon or not.  The gun would fit the Tread’s burly look.

6).  Missiles to attach to RECESSED hard points on the wings.

7).  Pivots in the front “toes,” to help with an A stance.

And it goes without saying, keep ratchet joints all over this puppy!

Edited July 10, 2020 by Mog

[M'Kyuun]

YES- for the love of all that's right in this world, lots of strong ratchets with many detents for greater range of posability. Should be a law. 

[jenius]

3 hours ago, Snake Eyes said:

and just for reference...

I think the biggest issue is probably the cockpit. Given how big the pilot figure is, and what the Mospeada dimensions are (rather than the Robotech ones), that pilot is going to need to be super compressed in there. Remember, the CM's Tread is about the right size and they had to put a tiny pilot in there that is clearly out of scale. That said, if the Tread get's a mild 'modernization' they could have the top of the cockpit be higher up and closer to level with the shoulder humps and that may create the necessary headroom. 

[ghostryder]

I'm late to the party, had no idea they came out with a new Legioss toy.

Looks like Zeta is coming out soon, but I think I'll hold out for Iota (my favorite color scheme).