akim Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) About Legioss missile...in japanese Edited July 11, 2020 by akim Pdf to jpg Quote
Shawn Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 Akim, you always have the best resources!! So seeing this line art with the central missile pod, does that imply it was not an Imai invented gimmick, but perhaps cannon? Google Translate can't make out the top left text....are these options for gun placement? Carl asked a few hundred ages ago, but does anyone remember the original source of the "Imai invented the central missile pod" statement? Quote
magicsp00n Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, Shawn said: Google Translate can't make out the top left text....are these options for gun placement? The top left text appears to say something about "2nd descent" - I'm guessing it is indicating the second earth invasion force. The lower left text says simply "missile pod & cannon", so not much info there. Quote
Duymon Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 hm, never seen that one. just says missile pod and gun in the center and legioss armo fighter on the right. top says 2nd something which as above poster mentioned was prolly reference to the 2nd expeditionary force. I wonder if imai based their models off this lineart but for some reason it was cut from the animation? Quote
jenius Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Duymon said: hm, never seen that one. just says missile pod and gun in the center and legioss armo fighter on the right. top says 2nd something which as above poster mentioned was prolly reference to the 2nd expeditionary force. I wonder if imai based their models off this lineart but for some reason it was cut from the animation? 2nd "Reclamation" force! There are soooooooo many iterations of the Legioss with different bits attached. I wouldn't be surprised if they sent something to Imai as soon as they could and then ended up not including the elements in the show. The concept was going to be that the crew rode motorcycles everywhere and occasionally found a Legioss to help them out... not that they had three Legioss... Legiosses.... Legioii, integral to their trip. Maybe the intake missiles and central missile pods were part of how they intended to distinguish the burner Legioss from each other. Quote
akim Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 Hi Shawn, Thanks you for your comment ! But this time, this sheet comes from Carl's documents. Unfortunately, i can't help...i just own some artworks...and share them... It remembers me Legioss missile underbreast discussion... Anyways, talking about Mospeada lineart and settei is pleasant. Quote
sketchley Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 10 hours ago, magicsp00n said: The top left text appears to say something about "2nd descent" - I'm guessing it is indicating the second earth invasion force. The lower left text says simply "missile pod & cannon", so not much info there. 第二回落下作戦標準デザイン（第1話） I understand that to be: "The second descent operation standard design (1st episode)." Maybe it's a design that was ultimately rejected or not used for cost reasons? (or, as Jenius said, was intended for later episodes as a throwaway design, but was shelved when the direction of the series changed) Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 11 hours ago, Shawn said: Akim, you always have the best resources!! So seeing this line art with the central missile pod, does that imply it was not an Imai invented gimmick, but perhaps cannon? Google Translate can't make out the top left text....are these options for gun placement? Carl asked a few hundred ages ago, but does anyone remember the original source of the "Imai invented the central missile pod" statement? 54 minutes ago, sketchley said: Maybe it's a design that was ultimately rejected or not used for cost reasons? (or, as Jenius said, was intended for later episodes as a throwaway design, but was shelved when the direction of the series changed) So... I did a little digging and found the answer in Entertainment Archive #8: MOSPEADA Complete Art Works. This missile pod wasn't designed for the Genesis Climber MOSPEADA anime... it was specifically developed for the show's merchandise lines. To be precise, this missile pod and those "first strike" missiles mounted under the intake were created by Artmic for Imai's line of transforming Legioss plamodels. I've heard the missile pod was at least partly intended to be a structural cheat to make the Imai kit's armo-fighter mode more stable, though the book doesn't say anything about the reason Imai wanted it. They may have just wanted a gimmick Gakken's toys didn't have. This one, on the other hand... ... was used in episode 20, though only to launch fireworks for Mint's birthday. Quote
akim Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) A Big Thanks for Seto! Finally we've got explanation for these sheets: missile pod ans first strike missile !! First strike missile settei's picture Edited July 12, 2020 by akim Title settei Quote
M'Kyuun Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 I look at those old pics and wish I could draw so crisply and uniformly freehandedly. Alas, I do neither well. Still, it's always cool to see concept art of this kind of stuff. Those tri-missile packs under the chest are a feature I remember well from the Monogram model kit, and the Toynami as well. I kinda dig the way they look, and wondered why they weren't shown on the Sentinel. Then I watched the anime, and they don't appear in the show at all, IIRC. It's a shame, as, to me, it was one of those recognizable features of the Legioss, and the absence of them, canon or not, feels wrong. Quote
sketchley Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said: I look at those old pics and wish I could draw so crisply and uniformly freehandedly. Alas, I do neither well. Still, it's always cool to see concept art of this kind of stuff. ... Keep in mind that what we see in print reproductions are size-reduced from the original drawings (E.g. the picture immediately before your post looks like it's been reduced from the A4 to the B5 paper size [84% for those who don't]... perhaps even smaller), and that tends to mitigate any jitters in the lines. Also, if you look closely (again at the above image) you can see some less than straight lines in the chest front/side images. I guess what I'm trying to say is that professional artists have learned how to "hide" those kinds of mistakes. Quote
akim Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 Hi Sketchley, You're right.. Usually, most of settei seen in Market are reproductions... Most of them are A4 size... But according to anime series/movies, original setting/settei's dimensions are different ...and sometimes reproductions settei given to staff respect settei's size... About Mospeada anime, I found several settei copies in B4 size...like original settei... Missile strike missile picture is B4 and is an original artwork... I don't have all Mospeada artworks but what i've got are all B4 On the contrary, some of original Macross movie settei are A5/B5 ...( Sorry i must find them to check precisely the size) Below, an original Macross movie settei and the Mospeada missile first strike (without cut) : Quote
sketchley Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, akim said: ... Below, an original Macross movie settei and the Mospeada missile first strike (without cut) : Thanks for posting those! It's always really refreshing to see things like whiteout and eraser smudge marks on these sorts of things. If anything it reminds me that these excellent artists are using the exact same techniques as you and I. But at the same time, it highlights their skill—in the sense of getting it right the first time (most of the whiteout is being used to add detail to the picture. I can only see one spot where it looks like it was used to cover a "mistake"!) Quote
M'Kyuun Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 I didn't even see the whiteout; I had to look for it after you mentioned it. Still, the skill on display in these drawings is amazing to me. I don't have an iota of talent for this sort of thing, so it's doubly impressive to me when I see artwork of this caliber. Nice to have inputs from folks who know their stuff. Thanks Akim, for sharing this art and and your commentary, and to Sketchley for your commentary as well. Much appreciated. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 5 hours ago, M'Kyuun said: Those tri-missile packs under the chest are a feature I remember well from the Monogram model kit, and the Toynami as well. I kinda dig the way they look, and wondered why they weren't shown on the Sentinel. Then I watched the anime, and they don't appear in the show at all, IIRC. It's a shame, as, to me, it was one of those recognizable features of the Legioss, and the absence of them, canon or not, feels wrong. I guess that's only to be expected, given that the Monogram GoBots kit for Leader-1 WAS the Imai Kagaku AFC-01Z Zeta Legioss kit. When Imai ran into financial trouble in the mid-80's after the success of their Macross kits wasn't replicated by later licenses like Orguss, MOSPEADA, Southern Cross, and Galvion, they sold off a lot of their tooling. Bandai bought a lot of it, but Monogram picked up some of their MOSPEADA molds. That's where their Leader-1 and CY-KILL models came from. I know a lot of Robotech fans lament that the first strike missiles were never in the actual show... given that one of the accusations frequently leveled at the design was a lack of longer-ranged weapons that could be brought to bear before being close enough to the Inbit/Invid to exchange rude hand gestures through the canopy glass. (Even Titan Comics was taking the piss out of the Legioss design in the short-lived Remix comic.) Quote
wwwmwww Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) On 7/11/2020 at 8:45 AM, Shawn said: Akim, you always have the best resources!! So seeing this line art with the central missile pod, does that imply it was not an Imai invented gimmick, but perhaps cannon? Google Translate can't make out the top left text....are these options for gun placement? Carl asked a few hundred ages ago, but does anyone remember the original source of the "Imai invented the central missile pod" statement? WOW!!!! I don't remember seeing this before. Great find Akim!!! On 7/11/2020 at 10:28 AM, akim said: But this time, this sheet comes from Carl's documents. Unfortunately, i can't help...i just own some artworks...and share them... What!!! That is from me!? I guess after years of collecting Mospeada stuff I was bound to forget something. Let me do some digging and see if I can find where this came from. 17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: So... I did a little digging and found the answer in Entertainment Archive #8: MOSPEADA Complete Art Works. This missile pod wasn't designed for the Genesis Climber MOSPEADA anime... it was specifically developed for the show's merchandise lines. To be precise, this missile pod and those "first strike" missiles mounted under the intake were created by Artmic for Imai's line of transforming Legioss plamodels. I've heard the missile pod was at least partly intended to be a structural cheat to make the Imai kit's armo-fighter mode more stable, though the book doesn't say anything about the reason Imai wanted it. They may have just wanted a gimmick Gakken's toys didn't have. That's it!!! I knew I had read someplace that went into more detail. As for "why Imai wanted it" I think I got that from here: http://www.starshipmodeler.com/mecha/ls_mos.htm Quote Possibly to conceal the hole in the back and provide a link spot for their 1/48 Alpha kit's gun pod, Imai's Alphas incorporate an additional missile pod for the Alpha centerline. This appears to be speculation so shouldn't be stated as fact. And good news... digging through my Mospeada files I found the image Akim posted. Its in one of 3 PDF files I paid $5 for back in 2007. Here they are: http://wwwmwww.com/Mospeada/New/mospe001.PDF http://wwwmwww.com/Mospeada/New/mospe002.PDF http://wwwmwww.com/Mospeada/New/mospe003.PDF The image Akim posted is page 21 of the mospe002.PDF file. Digging though my emails, I see where I asked the source of these files this question: Quote So are you in touch with some of the designers or did this just come to you through the grapevine so-to-speak? And the response started off with this: Quote It was through the grapevine, but a very short grapevine. Basically, a friend of mine was working with them on an art of Mospeada book, and was in contact with them. The specific details behind the book and why it was "shut down" he asked me to keep "under wraps" so I don't think I should say too much more. But these 3 PDF files are apparently just a sample of the pictures being collected for this book. Again this was back in 2007, and this source I believe found me through MacrossWorld. I think he's a forum member here but I don't know his forum ID (I probably did at the time but it is not in the email and I don't remember it) so I cannot check if he's still active or not. If he is and wants to share more details he's certainly welcome to. It is also interesting to note that those two images appear to be essentially traced from the images seen on page 13 and page 20 and then added to. Carl Edited July 12, 2020 by wwwmwww typo Quote
Shawn Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 Carl-think you are referring to this? http://materialistzen.blogspot.com/2010/01/imai-files.html Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, wwwmwww said: This appears to be speculation so shouldn't be stated as fact. It does appear to be highly plausible speculation, if nothing else... it also seems to have kind of helped the arms stay in alignment in Armo-Fighter mode. 54 minutes ago, wwwmwww said: he specific details behind the book and why it was "shut down" he asked me to keep "under wraps" so I don't think I should say too much more. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows who you're talking about and why the book was "shut down"... Roger Harkavy, the man behind the so-called "Imai Files". It's not much of a secret anymore. Harmony Gold stonewalled his plans to publish the Imai archival material he'd obtained and then handed it all over to Palladium Books, where that material was used as the basis for the last (filler-heavy) Robotech role-playing game supplement book they published before their license was revoked. It's suspected that material will make its way into UDON Entertainment's next Robotech Visual Archive artbook... if they ever actually publish it. The closest he ever got to official acknowledgement was a one-line on the title page of Palladium's UEEF Marines Sourcebook that simply credits him for "IMAI Files and Translation". 54 minutes ago, wwwmwww said: I think he's a forum member here but I don't know his forum ID (I probably did at the time but it is not in the email and I don't remember it) so I cannot check if he's still active or not. His handle was just "Roger". His last forum activity date was April 18th of last year, though his last post was apparently back around the end of March of '09 after a short suspension for repeated off-topic posting. I could swear I recall him posting more recently, but either my memory is faulty or the posts were lost in one of MW's occasional server issues. Edited July 12, 2020 by Seto Kaiba Quote
wwwmwww Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shawn said: Carl-think you are referring to this? http://materialistzen.blogspot.com/2010/01/imai-files.html 55 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: I'm pretty sure everyone here knows who you're talking about and why the book was "shut down"... Roger Harkavy, the man behind the so-called "Imai Files". The source I got these PDF files from is NOT Roger Harkavy. Going back and checking my email, my first contact with Roger was in May 2009. The files I just posted were files I obtained in 2007, which is well before I was aware of what Roger was working on. I suppose that it is possible that the "friend" referred to by my source was Roger (I honestly don't know) but I have a collection of line art that I've received directly from Roger in 2009 and 2010 that I believe has very little overlap with these 3 pdf files. I went through that first looking for the image Akim posted and I didn't see it there. I'll check again. There is obviously a few details from 2007 to 2010 that I've forgotten myself but at least at the time I made the above post I was thinking these were separate projects. Carl Edited July 12, 2020 by wwwmwww typo Quote
wwwmwww Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 Ok.... just got an email from Shawn. Looks like these were the same project. This post should tell you who my source was and fills in the gap between 2007 and 2009. Carl P.S. Does this mean I should take those PDF files down? Not really intending to open an old wound. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, wwwmwww said: Ok.... just got an email from Shawn. Looks like these were the same project. This post should tell you who my source was and fills in the gap between 2007 and 2009. Yeah, when you said it was connected to a planned book that got shut down... that made it pretty much a slam dunk it was Roger's project. 9 minutes ago, wwwmwww said: P.S. Does this mean I should take those PDF files down? Not really intending to open an old wound. I think we're about a decade past the point where anyone should care. That book that Roger was planning never had any realistic chance of seeing the light of day with Harmony Gold's exclusive rights to MOSPEADA outside of Japan. A lot of that stuff is already published in various other artbooks anyway. Might as well let it stand with a healthy chorus of "and f*ck Harmony Gold". Quote
pengbuzz Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: I guess that's only to be expected, given that the Monogram GoBots kit for Leader-1 WAS the Imai Kagaku AFC-01Z Zeta Legioss kit. When Imai ran into financial trouble in the mid-80's after the success of their Macross kits wasn't replicated by later licenses like Orguss, MOSPEADA, Southern Cross, and Galvion, they sold off a lot of their tooling. Bandai bought a lot of it, but Monogram picked up some of their MOSPEADA molds. That's where their Leader-1 and CY-KILL models came from. Ah yes...I had the red and white-molded Leader-1 version (apparently they also had a grey-molded kit as well). Wish I could find it now, as while I don't exactly like MOSPEADA, I kinda liked the Armo-fighter (but the examples of either Imai or Monogram are hideously expensive last I looked). 3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: I know a lot of Robotech fans lament that the first strike missiles were never in the actual show... given that one of the accusations frequently leveled at the design was a lack of longer-ranged weapons that could be brought to bear before being close enough to the Inbit/Invid to exchange rude hand gestures through the canopy glass. (Even Titan Comics was taking the piss out of the Legioss design in the short-lived Remix comic.) Trying to imagine Ray doing the whole "greetings" scene from Top Gun, with Stig doing the "Is this your idea of fun, Ray?" Quote
Shawn Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 Thanks Seto found it! Now I can file it away mentally プラモデルメーカー用に描かれた、機体上面に追加するミサイルポッド（上）。 また、ビームキャノンは通常の右主翼下への懸架（下）の他、両翼に2門装備する例（中）も描かれた。 両翼への搭載は第20話でも登場。 ただしミントのための花火を打ち上げるための装備だった Quote
MKT Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 6 hours ago, wwwmwww said: Ok.... just got an email from Shawn. Looks like these were the same project. This post should tell you who my source was and fills in the gap between 2007 and 2009. Carl P.S. Does this mean I should take those PDF files down? Not really intending to open an old wound. Although the line art thread is old, it is gold for newerbie like me. Such a treasure trove! And thanks for posting up the PDF links Carl. Quote
jenius Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 Finally got this done! Looking forward to getting the Zeta, especially if they fix that floppy wing and make the shoulders easier to rotate. The Zeta will probably come with a new female pilot figure so maybe they can tighten that up also. Quote
Protoman Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 2 hours ago, jenius said: Finally got this done! Looking forward to getting the Zeta, especially if they fix that floppy wing and make the shoulders easier to rotate. The Zeta will probably come with a new female pilot figure so maybe they can tighten that up also. Great review, as usual. As you say in our video a compelling case is made for a Tread. Here's hoping we se a prototype soon. Quote
MKT Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 Always loving your video reviews @jenius I wish Sentinel didn't change their square base design for this Legioss. For the longest time, they have been using this other somewhat modular base for many of their figures. The smaller base with the transparent plastic layer on the surface was used for their smaller figures (like the Ride Armors), but for larger figures, it came with additional, matt black connector pieces to expand the base into a bigger size. Now, the base with this Legioss is similarly sized to the old expanded base, but simplified into a 1-piece design. However, the shiny and almost featureless surface reminds me of lids of boxes from dollar stores. Quote
vladykins Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 Excellent review as always- can't wait to get my hands on mine! Quote
Duymon Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 woo hoo, somebody cancelled their Legioss PO on BBTS so I nabbed it for my 2nd eta Quote
Kyp Durron Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 Congrats. I can never catch anything like that *sigh* Quote
MacrossJunkie Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Duymon said: woo hoo, somebody cancelled their Legioss PO on BBTS so I nabbed it for my 2nd eta Same, the web monitor I had put on BBTS dinged last night so I picked it up quick, It's my first and only one though. When are these supposed to come? The site says July, but I assume that hasn't been updated. Quote
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