Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[rematron]

delete

Edited December 1, 2023 by rematron

[rematron]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:31 AM, rematron said:

Fair point but we all have to agree that the YF-21 has a whole new special kind of anime magic necessary when it comes to those big legs disappearing into the sleek fighter.  It is, after all, the only one of Kawanori-san's designs that doesn't utilize the 'intake/engine/thruster = leg' format which enables him to 'hide' the legs in plain sight.  Even the line art and drawings I've seen don't really address how the big legs fit into the little space under the belly plates without squishing the fairly large engines up top.  Not a problem for the VF-1.  I wonder if the design was sort of a personal challenge for Kawamori-san to see if he could break away from the 'legs=engine nacelles' formula.

My defense for the Yamato design has always been that if it were 'real life', big legs wouldn't be necessary to make the mech mobile in battroid because the lift would still be generated by the 'backpack/engines and that would be the majority of the control for its lateral or vertical movement with the legs acting more like kickstands - sort of like an Appollo lunar lander or the legs of a mosquito.  This is to say nothing of how the legs look or support the weight of the TOY.  It's just my brain making a reason for this toy to look the way it does as if I were playing with it in deep imagination mode.

The Bandai design is sort of a different Macross universe in my mind where they (General Galaxy) decided that the legs needed to be big and beefy and agile for whatever reason (in case the engines break down and it still needs to be mobile?) And they (Bandai) tackled the question of what the plane would actually look like if it needed beefy legs AND engines.

Just my personal take on it.  Cheers and happy Halloween from the west side of Washington State.

@wsna: My take on the legs from a month ago. Page 49

Edited December 1, 2023 by rematron

[Big s]

2 hours ago, wsna said:

Maybe the YF-21 was supposed to sport skinny legs after all…

thoughts?

No

[Sanity is Optional]

Skinny legs: better fighter, ugly battroid.

Fat legs: ugly fighter, better battroid.

 

Curse of anime magic. Choose your poison.

[no3Ljm]

2 hours ago, wsna said:

Getting those thicker legs probably forced the fitment of the those bottom panels over the leg assembly to bow out giving us the pregnant “sturmvogel” in fighter config.

Maybe the YF-21 was supposed to sport skinny legs after all…

thoughts?

My post on Page 54.

On 11/22/2023 at 3:43 PM, no3Ljm said:

And Seti88's reply on my post.

On 11/22/2023 at 6:04 PM, seti88 said:

so thats what the belly plates are for...to hide yamato's skinny legs from the side!😄

i suppose the question to ask is do you want a stylish thick battroid legs? if so, then we will have to put up with the thick front to back backpack.

If there was a mechanism to squash the backpack tight to the torso would be nice, but looking at the one-piece backpack top i dont see any such mechanism..

 

 

[M'Kyuun]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:04 AM, Raikkonen said:

Likely ratchet. 

That is an unexpected but clever solution, although I was always under the impression, based on the line art, that the inner lower legs had a three-position slider mechanism- fully retracted in fighter, partially extended in GERWALK, and fully extended in battroid. Regardless, I'm fine with this. I just hope it locks firmly in place, as there's a lot of weight depending on its being sturdy.

3 hours ago, wsna said:

Getting those thicker legs probably forced the fitment of the those bottom panels over the leg assembly to bow out giving us the pregnant “sturmvogel” in fighter config.

Maybe the YF-21 was supposed to sport skinny legs after all…

thoughts?

Nope, they were always supposed to flare out. But look how much larger the legs are drawn compared to the minimalized forward fuselage, all to present a nicer proportioned battroid. Is it any wonder that toy and model makers struggle to find a good balance? Yamato did an exceptional job with the top half, but the skinny legs were just too disproportionate to the rest and never looked right. I prefer Bandai's proportions, even if it means a thicker back end to the fighter.

 

Here's the line art showing the legs stowed. Again, Kawamori employed a lot of license in minimizing the size of the legs to make them fit. I've never liked the belly plate solution, as it renders this thing a partial shell-former.  I prefer Bandai's current solution to keep the legs in their battroid configuration and store them inside the engine nacelles, which, IMHO, should have been the original solution, as it just makes practical sense. The best solution, however IMHO, would have been to eschew the loathesome belly plates altogether and shape the lower aft end with form-fitted cutouts into which the legs would insert. They'd be visible but contoured to blend seamlessly with the rest of the lower plane. That would have been my solution, as well as attaching the guns within holsters on a rotation joint just above the knee so they can be oriented forward regardless of mode. I think that would have eased the burden on toy and model makers significantly, not to mention eradicate the annoying hip kibble that those plates create. Alas, what's done is done, and the YF-21 remains one of the more difficult valks to translate into toys due to the copious amount of animation magic employed.  I just hope Bandai's effort proves to be solid.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

1 hour ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Skinny legs: better fighter, ugly battroid.

Fat legs: ugly fighter, better battroid.

 

Curse of anime magic. Choose your poison.

Buy both!!!

Yamato YF-21: check.

Bandai YF-21: where's the preorder button????

[wsna]

3 hours ago, rematron said:

@wsna: My take on the legs from a month ago. Page 49

Sorry about that...I haven't been following this thread until recently...that and it's probably easier on the eyes not to look at the thread on your phone during a quick smoke break.

[rematron]

10 minutes ago, wsna said:

Sorry about that...I haven't been following this thread until recently...that and it's probably easier on the eyes not to look at the thread on your phone during a quick smoke break.

It's no problem! It's been an ongoing off and on discussion since the first photos showed up.  Lots of repetition and opinions.  I've just been glued to this thread from the get-go.

Edited December 1, 2023 by rematron

[Actar]

18 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

That is an unexpected but clever solution, although I was always under the impression, based on the line art, that the inner lower legs had a three-position slider mechanism- fully retracted in fighter, partially extended in GERWALK, and fully extended in battroid. Regardless, I'm fine with this. I just hope it locks firmly in place, as there's a lot of weight depending on its being sturdy.

Nope, they were always supposed to flare out. But look how much larger the legs are drawn compared to the minimalized forward fuselage, all to present a nicer proportioned battroid. Is it any wonder that toy and model makers struggle to find a good balance? Yamato did an exceptional job with the top half, but the skinny legs were just too disproportionate to the rest and never looked right. I prefer Bandai's proportions, even if it means a thicker back end to the fighter.

 

Here's the line art showing the legs stowed. Again, Kawamori employed a lot of license in minimizing the size of the legs to make them fit. I've never liked the belly plate solution, as it renders this thing a partial shell-former.  I prefer Bandai's current solution to keep the legs in their battroid configuration and store them inside the engine nacelles, which, IMHO, should have been the original solution, as it just makes practical sense. The best solution, however IMHO, would have been to eschew the loathesome belly plates altogether and shape the lower aft end with form-fitted cutouts into which the legs would insert. They'd be visible but contoured to blend seamlessly with the rest of the lower plane. That would have been my solution, as well as attaching the guns within holsters on a rotation joint just above the knee so they can be oriented forward regardless of mode. I think that would have eased the burden on toy and model makers significantly, not to mention eradicate the annoying hip kibble that those plates create. Alas, what's done is done, and the YF-21 remains one of the more difficult valks to translate into toys due to the copious amount of animation magic employed.  I just hope Bandai's effort proves to be solid.

For what it's worth, I like the belly plate kibble as it ties it aesthetically to the YF-19. It's a nice consistent design element shared by the two Plus valks.

[26662]

2 hours ago, Actar said:

For what it's worth, I like the belly plate kibble as it ties it aesthetically to the YF-19. It's a nice consistent design element shared by the two Plus valks.

I love your take.  Viewed one way, it brings a sense of reality to the universe: the companies behind the YF-19 and YF-21 are vying for a government contract that has very specific requirements.  Additionally, we should expect some common design elements simply because both companies would have access to the latest "public domain" advancements in flight tech.

[M'Kyuun]

8 hours ago, Actar said:

For what it's worth, I like the belly plate kibble as it ties it aesthetically to the YF-19. It's a nice consistent design element shared by the two Plus valks.

I hadn't considered that consistency between designs, so I concede your point. Nevertheless, I'm still not a fan. TBH, I never cared for the wings just hanging off the YF-19's legs, either, but for whatever reason, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the 21's belly plates. However, if the YF-21 has to have belly plates dangling off its legs, I'd much prefer Bandai's truncated plates over the Yamato's full-length plates. Of course, YMMV.

[rematron]

I seem to remember something about the aesthetic of the leg kibble of the 19 and 21  supposing to be reminiscent of samurai armor… Or am I making that up…?

[David Hingtgen]

10 hours ago, rematron said:

I seem to remember something about the aesthetic of the leg kibble of the 19 and 21  supposing to be reminiscent of samurai armor… Or am I making that up…?

That was IIRC Kawamori's explanation for the hip kibble on the Masterpiece Starscream toy.   

[M'Kyuun]

3 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

That was IIRC Kawamori's explanation for the hip kibble on the Masterpiece Starscream toy.   

You remember correctly, and to extrapolate that connection to the YF-19 and YF-21 seems highly plausible. Those among us more conversant in Japanese may be able to elucidate further should Kawamori-san have spoken on it in interviews over the years. 

[enphily]

[MKT]

Haha it was looking like the PO for YF-21 is coming up, but the pic just says it is still a prototype. What may be interesting is that, if the translation is accurate, it says the actual product will be different. No words along the likes of 'subject to, or 'may be'. 

[nightmareB4macross]

1 hour ago, enphily said:

Finally it stands without additional support.

I love it.

[seti88]

2 hours ago, enphily said:

hmmm....

Edited December 15, 2023 by seti88

[m0n5t3r]

The way the 19 is posed looks like it's fully concentrating on propping up the 21 with his shield 😆 

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

hmmm....

Can't unsee the comically tiny feet on the Yamato now... 

Will the DX version still have an exposed cockpit "bubble" in battroid?

TBH, I can't recall if it remains exposed in the anime or lineart?

It just doest look "right" to me as a clear glass bubble...

[Bolt]

16 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Can't unsee the comically tiny feet on the Yamato now... 

I thought the same thing. But i also think it's the angle. 
 

 

16 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Will the DX version still have an exposed cockpit "bubble" in battroid?

TBH, I can't recall if it remains exposed in the anime or lineart?

It just doest look "right" to me as a clear glass bubble...

The line art shows the bubble as blue in battroid , so i guess that means covered. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Bolt

[IIymij]

7 hours ago, enphily said:

The head looks like it's sitting so low that its in his own chest, limited rotation due to it sitting between its boobs? 😅

Edited December 15, 2023 by IIymij

[Chronocidal]

6 minutes ago, IIymij said:

The head looks like it's sitting so low that its in his own chest, limited rotation due to it sitting between its boobs? 😅

To be fair, that's kind of how the art was to begin with, just without the giant shoulder plate.

[jvmacross]

32 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I thought the same thing. But i also think it's the angle. 
 

 

The line art shows the bubble as blue in battroid , so i guess that means covered. 

The angle seems the same to me as the DX...this why the difference in their size seems so extreme...

Yeah...they need to do something about the clear glass "look"...

 

 

[jvmacross]

18 minutes ago, IIymij said:

The head looks like it's sitting so low that its in his own chest, limited rotation due to it sitting between its boobs? 😅

Now I can't unsee the ginormous face on the DX...it should much smaller per the lineart and anime...

[borgified]

Edit: D'oh! Posted here instead of the DX YF-19 thread.. Still want to see the DX 21 Pengriod. 🤣

Edited December 15, 2023 by borgified

[Reïvaj]

2 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Now I can't unsee the ginormous face on the DX...it should much smaller per the lineart and anime...

Funnily enough, a bigger face is one of the few changes there's been since the earlier prototypes...

[jvmacross]

20 minutes ago, Reïvaj said:

Funnily enough, a bigger face is one of the few changes there's been since the earlier prototypes...

Really? Well then, back to the drawing board with you Bandai the Wise!

 

[Reïvaj]

Ha ha ha!!! Yeah, dreaming is for free...I myself would like them to completely redesign the belly plates. Oh, and the shoulder plate too!

[M'Kyuun]

16 hours ago, enphily said:

It's beautiful. Backpack's a little thick, but the overall proportions look very good, certainly an improvement over the unbalanced look of the Yamato. I'm ready for the PO.

[sh9000]

Still ordering 2.

[borgified]

Doesn’t anyone want to get 7 copies of the DX 21? 

First one to open and display in valk mode, second for mid-transformation, third in battroid, fourth to keep sealed and look at, fifth, sixth and seventh copies to flip at 5x its worth on Evilbay or keep it for investment purposes for your kids (or grandkids) for that matter [if they’re still interested in the things that we grew up with, or just veg out on RPG, League of Legends, Fortnight  or anything else]. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by borgified

[Sanity is Optional]

25 minutes ago, borgified said:

Doesn’t anyone want to get 7 copies of the DX 21? 

First one to open and display in valk mode, second for mid-transformation, third in battroid, fourth to keep sealed and look at, fifth, sixth and seventh copies to flip at 5x its worth on Evilbay or keep it for investment purposes for your kids (or grandkids) for that matter [if they’re still interested in the things that we grew up with, or just veg out on RPG, League of Legends, Fortnight  or anything else]. 

I mean, I did end up with 4x YF-19 full set...

[Chronocidal]

7 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

I mean, I did end up with 4x YF-19 full set...

I picked up 2 of the VF-19 Advance, and 3 of the YF-19 full sets, mostly just so I could pick up a pile of weapons to mount on... well, every other Bandai Valk.