MKT Posted July 3 Posted July 3 8 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said: Since they were always gonna have collapsing plates for high maneuver/delmiter mode, they could have just left the belly plates alone, and used that gap between the legs to stuff some separate gerwalk engine cover panels and even cap off the open end with some fold out HM/delmiter mode intakes instead. If that isn't enough space to stow panels, the whole fake engine thing could have been kept to the length of the hand covers, so some of those panels could have stowed in there as well. Then the giant partsforming HM/delimiter belly tub parts wouldn't be a neccessity. It would probably still have space to stow my proposed lock pin/battroid brace mechanism in front of all those panels. All these extra collapsing cover panels would have made the whole thing follow their own YF-19 design philosphy. I can picture the mechanism now. Fighter mode: A giant lock pin par runs between the knees into the bottom of what would be the crotch, spanning all the folds and panels. Engine body panels fold up and hide between the ankles. Everthing is hidden while keeping full sized belly plates. Gerwalk: Since legs are gone, panels come out ot fake the engine body. The lock bar could then retract into the space where the cover panels were, while also allowing the backpack to retract forward. The bar could even just not retract all the way, and remain plugged in the bottom of the crotch to help support the backpack in both of their respective retracted forms. Battroid: The engine panels could stay deployed, while the lock pin bar swings out to plug into the waist to hold the backpack up, in place of that unsightly battroid brace. High Maneuver / Delimiter mode: Of course the panels stay deployed for their main job. The lock bar returns to fighter mode. it could double as the central ridge of the delimiter tub, as in that blue part that seperates the two gray intake tracks. Since fighter mode is held up by the girthy lock bar, all the fighter mode bracing and lining layers could be done away with. All that could be replaced with the gray tracks painted onto the underside of the dorsal body panels. Bandai hire me pls. Well I guess there are many ways to skin a cat. I imagine how your solution would work, but there might be a bit too much panel-forming involved, in a sense of parts unfolding & unfurling every which way to resemble something. I’m not sure how the Macross community at large would accept the kind of panel-forming solution that we are now seeing in the 3rd party TF scene. True, the DX YF-19 has unfolding leg panels, but it’s still pretty straightforward affair & I’m still ruminating what is the fine line between acceptable & not for transforming valks. The YF-21 is already something different from other valks anyway; in a sense it’s a part shell-former (considered to be a lazy transformation trick) so perhaps going the panel-forming route is acceptable since the base design already has some deception in form of anime-magic built into it. Quote
jvmacross Posted July 3 Posted July 3 18 hours ago, graphic revolt said: Opened the 1st out of the 3 and what I witnessed is a bent antenna. Really. I guess $260 + above has a lower tiered QA. I hope the rest of the unboxing goes smoothly. What retailer did you purchase yours from? Or was it from multiple shops? Quote
jvmacross Posted July 3 Posted July 3 16 hours ago, treatment said: DHL delivered mine today, after miserably failing yesterday. The head laser on mine is fine: whew! Damn Schroedinger Bandai... From which retailer did you purchase yours from? Wonder if there is any pattern based on shop origin? Quote
Mog Posted July 3 Posted July 3 It doesn’t even have to be a panel-former per se. But if they changed the bellyplate ratio from 2/3 hipguard and 1/3 backpack to 3/4 hipguard and 1/4 backpack. And then had that backpack portion flip around so that its backside could become those missing ventral vents. That little change could reduce some of the backpack’s thickness and probably allow that gap between the back and backpack to be reduced a bit. And it would allow for the missing ventral VOTL vents to be shown off in Gerwalk. Quote
jvmacross Posted July 3 Posted July 3 10 hours ago, graphic revolt said: ...I have a change of heart, all due to the robot mode’s rock solid build with a really aggressive appearance that really captures the stylized appearance from the anime. I am not seeing the adherence to the lineart.... ....or to the drawn anime cels used in the actual anime... Maybe someone can create a "parts-former piece" that can be swapped in for battroid mode...assuming the current back piece would be easy to remove... ....or simply wait for the renewal or HMR version... Quote
pengbuzz Posted July 3 Posted July 3 10 hours ago, graphic revolt said: Thanks for the embarrassing open fly moment there! 😃 I blame my lack of sleep and now I have migraine having to complete the battroid mode. I thought this mode would be my least favorite after all the early pre/order reviews, I have a change of heart, all due to the robot mode’s rock solid build with a really aggressive appearance that really captures the stylized appearance from the anime. The backpack appears to be enormous but that is due to the flat appearance of the photos we’ve seen before its release. You have to see it live in person to really appreciate Bandai’s talented engineers to pull off a difficult design to maintain an aesthetically pleasing profile for ALL modes. Now the shoulders are a big concern and a video demo guide is surely due to be produced which will avoid all the early reports of breakage and identifying potential stress points. Thankfully none to be reported with this batch. Yeah I can see Bandai taking future portions of my pay stub by releasing M7 versions. Really rock solid product release possibly TOTY candidate! OK Bandai release the Thunderbolt! Dunno... legs look kinda skinny to me. JMO. Quote
Bolt Posted July 3 Posted July 3 9 minutes ago, pengbuzz said: Dunno... legs look kinda skinny to me. JMO. That's what Yamato thought too. the amount of bent head lasers, just on this forum, must speak volumes about the mass production run going out world wide. I hope there are many very squeaky wheels domestically, in Japan. Bandai needs to wake up. Quote
ArchieNov Posted July 3 Posted July 3 You know, I have a theory on how these head lasers got bent. When you're pushing the top of the clamshell back on the tray that contains the YF-21, you will notice that the bubble that covers the laser shifts to the left or right depending on which side you push down on first to secure the cover on. If you're not careful, the sides of the bubble might end up touching the laser and potentially bend it because bubble is pretty solid. So I can totally imagine this issue being caused by careless folks who were packing the item from the factory. This might be a case of Bandai actually doing something to prevent the head laser snapping scenario of the YF-19 (by making the bubble stronger), but inadvertently causing it to be too sturdy that it can now damage the toy. I've included some pics to demonstrate. Default position before pushing down on the cover to lock it. You'll see that the bubble is perfectly centered over the laser. Pushing down on left side to close it. You'll see that it practically touches the laser already. Pushing down on the right side. Same result but on the other side. Quote
treatment Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 hour ago, jvmacross said: From which retailer did you purchase yours from? Wonder if there is any pattern based on shop origin? HLJ Quote
jvmacross Posted July 3 Posted July 3 51 minutes ago, Bolt said: That's what Yamato thought too. the amount of bent head lasers, just on this forum, must speak volumes about the mass production run going out world wide. I hope there are many very squeaky wheels domestically, in Japan. Bandai needs to wake up. It's a WWM release....there is no shortage of squeaky wheels in the USA! I really want to see how this is handled here by Bandai USA...may finally be a good reason to pay more when buying local...lol Quote
davidwhangchoi Posted July 3 Posted July 3 On 7/1/2024 at 11:20 PM, Chronocidal said: Yeah, I have absolutely zero expectations that they will ever offer any sort of satisfying explanation or fix for anything like this. It's less work to fix it yourself than to get Bandai to admit they did anything wrong in the first place, let alone do anything to make it right. the only time i recall bandai sending out a replacement part was for the re-release of the yf-29 alto which had a tampo error on the shoulder. i do recall getting a replacement part through amiami. since this is a world wide release, i do expect/(Hope) they will send out international replacement parts Quote
treatment Posted July 3 Posted July 3 https://x.com/febrral/status/1808526405585825972 web-translated: Quote
pengbuzz Posted July 3 Posted July 3 2 hours ago, Bolt said: That's what Yamato thought too. the amount of bent head lasers, just on this forum, must speak volumes about the mass production run going out world wide. I hope there are many very squeaky wheels domestically, in Japan. Bandai needs to wake up. Agree on all counts. Quote
treatment Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Bandai should start changing their DX boxes to Flip-Top Windowed boxes... Quote
Bolt Posted July 3 Posted July 3 2 hours ago, jvmacross said: It's a WWM release....there is no shortage of squeaky wheels in the USA! I really want to see how this is handled here by Bandai USA...may finally be a good reason to pay more when buying local...lol I hope feed back on this side of the Pacific is being heard. I expect it to be heard by Bandai domestically. 1 hour ago, treatment said: https://x.com/febrral/status/1808526405585825972 web-translated: wait what what!! It's non removable?! And you have to send the whole thing in?? what a cluster f***k... Quote
jenius Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Don't we have pictures in this thread of it removed? Bandai is going to burn money with this approach. Quote
jvmacross Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Bandai is probably handling the antenna debacle on a case-by-case basis....for now...instead of just admiting they Bandai'd things up... Quote
m0n5t3r Posted July 3 Posted July 3 19 minutes ago, Bolt said: I hope feed back on this side of the Pacific is being heard. I expect it to be heard by Bandai domestically. wait what what!! It's non removable?! And you have to send the whole thing in?? what a cluster f***k... Posted by @Actar on the previous page. And it was, rather roughly, removed in one of the previously posted youtube reviews. Quote
jvmacross Posted July 3 Posted July 3 I have one already en route from AmiAmi....but I have a couple more waiting to be shipped...wonder if these shops would be able to open and confirm the condition of the antenna....then again they can always lie then blame the shipping company....quite the catch22 cluster frakk indeed....think I'll just tempt fate this time....it's only first world problems... Quote
Chronocidal Posted July 3 Posted July 3 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Bolt said: I hope feed back on this side of the Pacific is being heard. I expect it to be heard by Bandai domestically. wait what what!! It's non removable?! And you have to send the whole thing in?? what a cluster f***k... Yeah, no, this is just Bandai in a nutshell. "Screw you, send us the whole thing, we do not replace broken parts." I would just send them a video of it being pulled off, with a reply of "Tell me again that it can't be removed." When and if it existed, I would also post a link public to a shapeways site selling replacement parts to tell them "We know you're lying to us, so we fixed your problem ourselves." I just can't comprehend how they treat their customers like such garbage. Edited July 3 by Chronocidal Quote
jvmacross Posted July 3 Posted July 3 17 minutes ago, Chronocidal said: I just can't comprehend how they treat their customers like such garbage. Are there any examples of non-Japanese markets receiving bad customer service from Bandai?...and I'm referring to legit legally sold Bandai items from either Bandai directly on non-Japan Bandai sites or their authorized resellers.... BTW....I don't consider having to send in the entire toy for a complete replacement "bad customer service"....more like inefficient internal processes, which I would not consider my problem unless it impeded me from getting my item made whole again... Quote
Test_Pilot_2 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 49 minutes ago, jvmacross said: Are there any examples of non-Japanese markets receiving bad customer service from Bandai?...and I'm referring to legit legally sold Bandai items from either Bandai directly on non-Japan Bandai sites or their authorized resellers.... BTW....I don't consider having to send in the entire toy for a complete replacement "bad customer service"....more like inefficient internal processes, which I would not consider my problem unless it impeded me from getting my item made whole again... Yeah, either their profit margins are so wide that they don't care or they hate money. Both are bad. Quote
graphic revolt Posted July 3 Posted July 3 the head laser snapping off is hardly a blip, crazy glue that f_cker on and done. Quote
Uxi Posted July 3 Posted July 3 13 hours ago, Chronocidal said: It's just traditionally been a laser, even if it can't face forwards like the VF-1. The YF-19's can't either, but you see Isamu use it as a trailing deterrent against Guld while dogfighting, which is perfectly in line with where the 21's is. Would like both YF-19 and YF-21 should have detent ball joints and a small barrel hole of emitter or something. Quote
Uxi Posted July 3 Posted July 3 19 hours ago, Chronocidal said: Wait, expecting Bandai to actually care about accurate panel lines? Yeah, they basically tried to blind everyone with extra panel lines, while not actually paying attention to whether they were accurate. First impression is that the added detail DOES look better. It's more a detail of the animation than anything. None of that extra tampo printing that likes nice is on there, either and in both cases Yamato comes out looking more plain, but anime accurate. Except for the legs. If Arcadia can do thicker legs that are less frustrating to stow for fighter, they'd have a winner in a premium paint version. As it is, they could get away with a leg swapping partsforner for the look and still do better than Bandai DX. Quote
PointBlankSniper Posted July 4 Posted July 4 7 hours ago, MKT said: Well I guess there are many ways to skin a cat. I imagine how your solution would work, but there might be a bit too much panel-forming involved, in a sense of parts unfolding & unfurling every which way to resemble something. I’m not sure how the Macross community at large would accept the kind of panel-forming solution that we are now seeing in the 3rd party TF scene. True, the DX YF-19 has unfolding leg panels, but it’s still pretty straightforward affair & I’m still ruminating what is the fine line between acceptable & not for transforming valks. The YF-21 is already something different from other valks anyway; in a sense it’s a part shell-former (considered to be a lazy transformation trick) so perhaps going the panel-forming route is acceptable since the base design already has some deception in form of anime-magic built into it. The thing is, what I'm proposing isn't actually more folding or panel forming than what is already on the toy. The tail third of the belly plates already fold to lay in a stack against the top of the backpack, just to be covered up by giant partsforming delimiter chunks. So basically the engines are already panel forming by default. Those panels only fold to serve no purpose and may as well have been detached along with the limbs. So despite the type of transformation mechanism being questionable, they are already built in. What I'm proposing is just making sense and use of their existing mechanics. It's just placing panel hinges in a different direction, so they stow into what seems to be wasted space, to get out of the way for full belly plates in fighter mode, and then come out and be useful for all the other modes. The only addition I'm really making is an extra intake panel that could swing out from another space like the hand cover. That space seems to only be taken up by a not very critical looking rotating tab, that is only used for fighter mode, which I still can't tell the purpose of from photos and reviews. It may as well serve double duty by being made as a larger swing out intake panel when not needed as a tab outside of fighter mode. The lock bar thing isn't shellforming, and integrated brace contraptions like that are nothing new, so I assume it's not part of your worries. Unfortunately, I'm just speaking on photos since I've got not word for my order from YYK, and will probably use slow boat if I can anyway. So I'm just speaking out of my bum. Quote
treatment Posted July 4 Posted July 4 I transformed mine to Battroid-mode. No FAST Packs, tho. As such, this DX is quite a looker in static battroid, no doubt. However... OCD trigger warnings. For some bizarro Bandai reasoning, the hip-swivel area does not have any position-lock/stopper tab like the YF-19 when in Battroid-mode. So you'll have to pretty much guess the best postioning of it. Especially in relation to its torso, waist, and chest areas. Then try to deal with it moving out of position when moving/ranging the hips/legs for whatever posing you desire that is other than neutral stand. The battroid-brace is really essential. Without it, the backpack will sag insecurely and will swing freely, and get the two tiny internal tabbing un-tabbed easily. You can use the skirts to at least both temporarily hedge a static position and keep it from further sagging or swinging freely. As with ever other high-end Bandai products, this DX YF21 seems to follow the Bandai toy-standard of being meant to be pose-once-and-do-not-touch-ever-again philosophy. Quote
treatment Posted July 4 Posted July 4 Also, as @Actar mentioned earlier, watch out for these wing-parts coming off when you're transforming your DX YF-21. They're kinda loose. The two smaller ones dropped off mine when I was TF'ing mine. You don't have to glue them back, tho... https://x.com/XXXG00YSW/status/1807436674676429116 web-translated: Quote
Graham Posted July 4 Posted July 4 7 hours ago, treatment said: https://x.com/febrral/status/1808526405585825972 web-translated: The antenna is easily removable. Quote
treatment Posted July 4 Posted July 4 re: no-brace skirt-augmented backpack DX YF-21 vs yammie-21 unaugmented Quote
M'Kyuun Posted July 4 Posted July 4 On 7/2/2024 at 6:54 PM, m0n5t3r said: i was gonna say that GERWALK mode looks good but then read your post and realized the 21's pants are on backwards. 😄 The truncated belly plates at the aft end look clean, but they're definitely not canon. Below is Kawamori's line art. All that leg is supposed to cram into an area that's even smaller than what Yamato was able to do on their take using skinny legs. There's a lot of animation magic going on. I like the Bandai solution so far as enlarging the nacelles and using them for storage for proportionately sized legs. It's a shame they couldn't have found a way to somehow replicate that interior leg bay detail without resorting to a huge partforming piece. Granted it looks nice, certainly nicer than the alternative as we've seen with the Yamato, but one would think that, too, would have been part of the engineering evolution invested in this toy. Alas, no, a bit of a step back instead. I'm likely in the minority for my preference of the non-canonically truncated belly panels; I just never liked the leg-length panels, and I think the shorter ones compliment the battroid better, except when the gunpod is attached and hangs tackily over the edge; they should have been at least as long as the entirety of the gunpod. However, GERWALK looks better with the full panels open and those VTOL verniers visible and, once again, it's shame they didn't exert an iota's worth more of effort towards actualizing all the aspects of this valk, with certain concessions in mind, to achieve, like their other DX figures, a 'perfect' transformation that still captures all the features and details as envisioned by Kawamori. 19 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said: Since they were always gonna have collapsing plates for high maneuver/delmiter mode, they could have just left the belly plates alone, and used that gap between the legs to stuff some separate gerwalk engine cover panels and even cap off the open end with some fold out HM/delmiter mode intakes instead. If that isn't enough space to stow panels, the whole fake engine thing could have been kept to the length of the hand covers, so some of those panels could have stowed in there as well. Then the giant partsforming HM/delimiter belly tub parts wouldn't be a neccessity. It would probably still have space to stow my proposed lock pin/battroid brace mechanism in front of all those panels. All these extra collapsing cover panels would have made the whole thing follow their own YF-19 design philosphy. I can picture the mechanism now. Fighter mode: A giant lock pin par runs between the knees into the bottom of what would be the crotch, spanning all the folds and panels. Engine body panels fold up and hide between the ankles. Everthing is hidden while keeping full sized belly plates. Gerwalk: Since legs are gone, panels come out ot fake the engine body. The lock bar could then retract into the space where the cover panels were, while also allowing the backpack to retract forward. The bar could even just not retract all the way, and remain plugged in the bottom of the crotch to help support the backpack in both of their respective retracted forms. Battroid: The engine panels could stay deployed, while the lock pin bar swings out to plug into the waist to hold the backpack up, in place of that unsightly battroid brace. High Maneuver / Delimiter mode: Of course the panels stay deployed for their main job. The lock bar returns to fighter mode. it could double as the central ridge of the delimiter tub, as in that blue part that seperates the two gray intake tracks. Since fighter mode is held up by the girthy lock bar, all the fighter mode bracing and lining layers could be done away with. All that could be replaced with the gray tracks painted onto the underside of the dorsal body panels. Bandai hire me pls. Did some retroactive reading after my initial post, and 'absolutely yes'. This is exactly the sort of creative engineering we've come to expect from third party Transformers developers, and even from Takara to an extent. We should certainly see it from a top tier toy company like Bandai. They need you @PointBlankSniper. Quote
M'Kyuun Posted July 4 Posted July 4 44 minutes ago, treatment said: re: no-brace skirt-augmented backpack DX YF-21 vs yammie-21 unaugmented Boggles the mind how this looked 'right' to Bandai. Some of the proto shots appeared to have the backpack closer to the battroid's body with the main wing hugged up to the blue bits to which the grey arm armature mounts. There still would have been a gap, but it may have shaved off 1/8 to a 1/4 inch of that gap. Quote
pengbuzz Posted July 4 Posted July 4 7 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said: Boggles the mind how this looked 'right' to Bandai. Some of the proto shots appeared to have the backpack closer to the battroid's body with the main wing hugged up to the blue bits to which the grey arm armature mounts. There still would have been a gap, but it may have shaved off 1/8 to a 1/4 inch of that gap. YEOWCH!! You could fire an Itano Circus' worth of missiles through that gap Quote
Actar Posted July 4 Posted July 4 27 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said: Boggles the mind how this looked 'right' to Bandai. Some of the proto shots appeared to have the backpack closer to the battroid's body with the main wing hugged up to the blue bits to which the grey arm armature mounts. There still would have been a gap, but it may have shaved off 1/8 to a 1/4 inch of that gap. To be fair, the backpack is deliberately pulled even further away in that configuration. Quote
M'Kyuun Posted July 4 Posted July 4 13 minutes ago, Actar said: To be fair, the backpack is deliberately pulled even further away in that configuration. I've been waiting to see pics of it drawn in as far as it can go, but 'the gap' is pretty much all I've seen thus far, which has me thinking this is as good as it's going to get. The battroid looks good from the front and 3/4 angles, but in profile, Yikes! It's such an obviously wrong departure from the line art and the animation, not to mention just about every other model and toy of the YF-21 thus produced, that it beggars the question how something so off-model made it through to production without being remedied. Quote
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