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Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21


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8 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Good catch !

1 minute ago, Chronocidal said:

I think at this point it's past the point where he can actually care about the differences.

Bandai gonna Bandai.

I know it's a model kit versus a transforming figure. But I couldn't help wonder if they made the legs turn like Yamato's would it help to make that backpack's jet 'bump' thinner and not so thicker like how it is now.

Ofcourse, as how Macross official product goes, Kawamori-san sure did approved this.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

I'm not sure if he noticed these differences in between figures. :ph34r:

2405kawamori02_ec.jpg.611c14e06a2f941518a25d13df8588ec.jpg.e1009e7c4a282042f125f1ae50fd0d8d.jpg

The differences lie in that the circled one on the right is the DX with its HUGE nacelles to accommodate the legs and the circled one on the left is the HG model kit which appears to be in delimiter mode given its lack of arms and no sign of them or the legs extended below. The HG model appears to have better proportions between fighter and battroid, although I believe they employ partsforming to achieve the ideal look of each mode. I'm not a big fan of that approach, however, as I prefer transforming toys that use creative engineering and techniques to solve the various challenges, especially when it's done exceedingly well.

2 hours ago, borgified said:

 

Don't forget that the N-Ger and Q-Rau are also bulky compared to the VF-1 (which the YF-21 is based on the Zentradi technology and the real life Northrop YF-23) 

Indeed. In real world, the YF-22, F-22 by extension, and the YF-23 are all necessarily large fighters to accommodate both large supercruise-capable engines and greater internal weapons storage. Kawamori-san mentions both in the hjweb article and in his Macross Designer's Notes the fact that he based the YF-21 on the YF-23, one of his favorite aircraft (and mine), and his early drawings really reflect that as he continued to evolve the design to its final form.  The marriage of the YF-23's silhouette and the Quedluun-Rau's signature form into the YF-21's design still stands as one of his most unique designs among his extensive catalog. I wish he'd given more consideration, however, to the possibility of toys being made from that design, as perhaps he may have reconsidered some elements, like the leg storage, to make them more practical for 3D application. As it is, he did toy and model makers no favors with the extent of animation license taken in its design.

Despite its warts, I'm anticipating my copy of the DX YF-21.  Since I display all my valks in battroid, the Yammie YF-21 always fell short due to its disproportionately skinny legs and loose hip joints. It was unstable and looked awkward and I finally put it back in its box some years ago. In all other regards beyond those legs, Yamato created a nigh-perfect YF-21 and I would love to see Arcadia amend the design to accommodate larger legs and hopefully stronger hip joints, and rerelease it as a 2.0 version. Between that and the DX, I think the Arcadia amended version would be superior given the base from which they started, at least aesthetically. The DX might beat them in the articulation dept unless Arcadia made improvements there as well. I'd certainly be down for a copy. Until such an announcement is forthcoming, all we can do is hope and save our pennies. Lots and lots of pennies. 😄

Edited by M'Kyuun
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20 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

The differences lie in that the circled one on the right is the DX with its HUGE nacelles to accommodate the legs and the circled one on the left is the HG model kit which appears to be in delimiter mode given its lack of arms and no sign of them or the legs extended below. The HG model appears to have better proportions between fighter and battroid, although I believe they employ partsforming to achieve the ideal look of each mode. I'm not a big fan of that approach, however, as I prefer transforming toys that use creative engineering and techniques to solve the various challenges, especially when it's done exceedingly well.

Yes, this is correct. It's huge based on the fact that the legs are thicker compared to Yamato's. Which to be honest, I like since Yamato's are so thin. But seeing the DX Battroid's legs at this point on the photos, in which the leg's width is thinner than its length due to the front of the leg has that potruding section like Q'Rau's, I was just wondering if the said nacelles will still be thicker if the legs are rotated in Fighter mode like Yamato's. Yes, it will not be as thin or sleek as Yamato's but atleast it's not going to be as bulky. Also, it's worth noticing that the DX middle inner section of the backpack is occupied with some parts whereas on the Yamato it's blank since that's where the legs and feet rest in Fighter mode.

To be fair with Bandai, I really marvel when it comes to the engineering and stuff of a transforming toy. But somehow it can't be help where one company tried to make it accurate as the anime goes, and one tried it differently and away from the source.

This is just my take until the next transforming YF-21. For now as my plan goes, these DX will be displayed in Battroid and Yamato's in Fighter modes. ;) 

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I too, really like the idea of combining both YF-23 & the Q-Rau and resulting in a really cool hybrid of a YF-21.

Yet the YF-21 stands out as an anomaly among Kawamori's designs, as it does seem to have the most amount of anime magic / proportion shifting among the various VFs. The other Plus & Mac7 VFs also have quite a bit, but don't seem to be up to the degree the YF-21 has. I think Kawamori was also very much enamored by the YF-23 + Q-Rau idea, tried his hardest to make it work, but in a not so charitable interpretation he succumbed to anime magic in the end and cheated. :p

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4 minutes ago, MKT said:

I too, really like the idea of combining both YF-23 & the Q-Rau and resulting in a really cool hybrid of a YF-21.

Yet the YF-21 stands out as an anomaly among Kawamori's designs, as it does seem to have the most amount of anime magic / proportion shifting among the various VFs. The other Plus & Mac7 VFs also have quite a bit, but don't seem to be up to the degree the YF-21 has. I think Kawamori was also very much enamored by the YF-23 + Q-Rau idea, tried his hardest to make it work, but in a not so charitable interpretation he succumbed to anime magic in the end and cheated. :p

I concur. :good::lol:  

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20 minutes ago, MKT said:

I too, really like the idea of combining both YF-23 & the Q-Rau and resulting in a really cool hybrid of a YF-21.

Yet the YF-21 stands out as an anomaly among Kawamori's designs, as it does seem to have the most amount of anime magic / proportion shifting among the various VFs. The other Plus & Mac7 VFs also have quite a bit, but don't seem to be up to the degree the YF-21 has. I think Kawamori was also very much enamored by the YF-23 + Q-Rau idea, tried his hardest to make it work, but in a not so charitable interpretation he succumbed to anime magic in the end and cheated. :p

And thus you have the conundrum that Yamato and Bandai have solved by shifting their focus towards fighter or battroid, respectively. I wish Bandai would have handled the backpack differently in a way that would have minimized its depth, but I'm also just grateful to finally have a YF-21 with decently proportional legs in battroid. I hope the backpack won't cause stability or balance issues, as I'm not a fan of using a stand for my robot toys; they should stand on their own as a matter of good engineering, in most cases. I guess we'll see when these things start releasing next month. If I read those dates right, it doesn't appear like we'll be getting ours on this side of the pond until October. Eh, time to save up and to catch some reviews before ours arrive. as always with these niche, expensive, high-end toys, I hope it's enjoyable, well-toleranced, with good durability, materials, articulation, complex-but-fun transformation, and other great features. I hope it's a damned fine toy b/c we've been waiting a long time for something to compare with or replace the Yamato on our shelves and I hope this does the job.

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9 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

As always with these niche, expensive, high-end toys, I hope it's enjoyable, well-toleranced, with good durability, materials, articulation, complex-but-fun transformation, and other great features. I hope it's a damned fine toy b/c we've been waiting a long time for something to compare with or replace the Yamato on our shelves and I hope this does the job.

Hear hear! :drinks:

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19 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

And thus you have the conundrum that Yamato and Bandai have solved by shifting their focus towards fighter or battroid, respectively. I wish Bandai would have handled the backpack differently in a way that would have minimized its depth, but I'm also just grateful to finally have a YF-21 with decently proportional legs in battroid. I hope the backpack won't cause stability or balance issues, as I'm not a fan of using a stand for my robot toys; they should stand on their own as a matter of good engineering, in most cases. I guess we'll see when these things start releasing next month. If I read those dates right, it doesn't appear like we'll be getting ours on this side of the pond until October. Eh, time to save up and to catch some reviews before ours arrive. as always with these niche, expensive, high-end toys, I hope it's enjoyable, well-toleranced, with good durability, materials, articulation, complex-but-fun transformation, and other great features. I hope it's a damned fine toy b/c we've been waiting a long time for something to compare with or replace the Yamato on our shelves and I hope this does the job.


Ran out of 'likes' for the day, so a big thumbs up. :good:

I hope Bandai follows through with the VF-22 after this. 

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Posted (edited)

The life of a Macross collector since Yamato v1 cerca early 2000...

- New release announced

- Scan pre-order images under a microscope 

- Everyone complains it doesn't have Anime magic transformation. Some vowing to summon the moon to crash onto Earth

- 70 pages later, everyone confirms pre-orders

- Item arrives, further microscope scanning

- Item then shelved or stored as another new release is announced

Edited by Raikkonen
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27 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

The life of a Macross collector since Yamato v1 cerca early 2000...

- New release announced

- Scan pre-order images under a microscope 

- Everyone complains it doesn't Anime magic transformation. Some vowing to summon the moon to crash onto Earth

- 70 pages later, everyone confirms pre-orders

- Item arrives, further microscope scanning

- Item then shelved or stored as another new release is announced


Guilty as charged.. err, since 2016 lol :D 

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2 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

The life of a Macross collector since Yamato v1 cerca early 2000...

- New release announced

- Scan pre-order images under a microscope 

- Everyone complains it doesn't have Anime magic transformation. Some vowing to summon the moon to crash onto Earth

- 70 pages later, everyone confirms pre-orders

- Item arrives, further microscope scanning

- Item then shelved or stored as another new release is announced

I think aspects of this observation applies to pretty much anything collectible, but as toy collectors (I collect LEGO, Transformers, Macross, and other robot toys here and there), and there are factors to consider: Space- there's so much of it in the universe, and yet I have so little to my name which makes displaying all my precious plastic playthings utterly impossible. A lot of what I own is stored in closets and cubbies, or in the case of my LEGO collection, stacked up in boxes in an 8' by 8' area in my rec room, much of which I've not seen in years. The joy of a new toy is another factor- I think that's just a human trait, that anticipation for a shiny new thing which tends to supplant our interest in the stuff we already have for at least a bit of time. I experience it, and when the shiny new thing turns out to be pretty awesome, it retains the interest long past its 'new stage' and takes its place with our other beloved older toys. Other new toys turn out to be mediocre, not what we expected, just plain bad, or lose their interest for us relegating them to forgotten corners of our collections or the selling block on your market of choice. Expectations- this is a big one, and as passionate collectors, it's intrinsic to our fandom. We want certain things from our toys- good quality, in terms of robot toys, above average to excellent articulation, nice details, a satisfyingly complex but not anxiety-inducing or frustrating transformation process, accuracy to various official media, be it animation, line art, or real-world inspirations. This is the one that drives those 70 pages of wonder, critique, questions and foaming at the mouth over concessions and inconsistencies, real or supposed. To a point it's fun, until it's not, and I'm sure we've all had our experiences with the dark side of collecting and fandom. Even LEGO has its share of negative detractors. Nothing we do is immune from reaction, both positive and negative. Reaction is a choice, and I try to be positive. Some folks find it difficult or just seem consumed by negativity and I lament that their lives will be colored by that dark outlook rather than just inherently finding joy in things. Collecting should, at its basest level, be enjoyable. It's what we like, and today we're so incredibly fortunate for the richness of availability that certainly never existed when we older folks from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and even into the 00s were younger. Anyway, the cycle you described @Raikkonen will continue to hold true for passionate fans as long as humans exist. I think the desire for new things, even new takes on old things, will always drive us, and that's a good thing. That innate human need drives progress. Otherwise, we'd still be driving horse and buggies on unimproved streets and using outhouses. Perish the thought!  maintaining my positivity, I continue to look forward to the DX YF-21. My expectations are tempered given what we've seen, but with the bad I see the good, too, at least from the perspective of a Macross fan who prefers battroid mode for his displays. At this point, I just hope it has tight joints, can stand on its own, and that the transformation is pleasant. For the price, I think those are pragmatic and justified expectations. In short, I hope this is one that won't just be forgotten within days in anticipation of the next thing. :)

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@M'Kyuun I think it's just that every collector has high expectations to eventually hold in their hands that elusive utterly perfect holy grail. 

But regarding only Macross collectors, some fall into the trap believing that present technology can replicate whatever anime magic into a toy, and easily forget that pre Zero, the valks were penned straight to paper and went to the screen from there.

I well recall the cries in early 2000s of how Toynami, Yamato (VF-11B and the VF-1 v1) and etc were failing as it's impossible as we then had this mighty thing called... AutoCAD. 🤣

But yes, it is a human instinct that does keep us on top of the food chain. 

 

 

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As a broken record, all I wanted was for longer landing gears or thinner fast pack and gunpods so that it isn't a parts former. I'm not even asking for accurate proportions to any depiction, is that such a high bar? 🙃

It's not like they went for any sort of accuracy anyway, so it's puzzling and looks like they went out of their way to sacrifice this one aspect to inflate the accessory count. 🤪

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6 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

As a broken record, all I wanted was for longer landing gears or thinner fast pack and gunpods so that it isn't a parts former. I'm not even asking for accurate proportions to any depiction, is that such a high bar? 🙃

It's not like they went for any sort of accuracy anyway, so it's puzzling and looks like they went out of their way to sacrifice this one aspect to inflate the accessory count. 🤪

My biggest gripe overall is that they changed a bunch of details of the plane that have absolutely nothing to do with the transformation in any way whatsoever.

They just changed stuff because.. reasons?  I have no idea.  The really painfully stupid part is that some of the early prototype photos showed some details that were originally accurate to the line art, and then later on just changed for some reason into something inaccurate.  Again, Bandai gonna Bandai, and there ain't nothing anyone can do about it. <_< 

At least the stupid change they made to the tails can be fixed with a file. :rolleyes: 

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I'm now only just thinking that the HG 1/100 line will stop at Macross 7 valks lol. As per the interview article, the HG line got good responses and I think it is because fans accepted that's the only solution to get anime accuracy on all modes. I doubt fans will accept HG-like partsforming for the later CG-designed valks like Zero or Delta, unless they come out with interpreted sculpt that's different enough to justify partsforming and at the same time pleasing to the eye - sculpt that's something like the recent Plamax 1/72 VF-1 Batttroid.

 

12 hours ago, M&#x27;Kyuun said:

I think aspects of this observation applies to pretty much anything collectible, but as toy collectors (I collect LEGO, Transformers, Macross, and other robot toys here and there), and there are factors to consider: Space- there's so much of it in the universe, and yet I have so little to my name which makes displaying all my precious plastic playthings utterly impossible. A lot of what I own is stored in closets and cubbies, or in the case of my LEGO collection, stacked up in boxes in an 8' by 8' area in my rec room, much of which I've not seen in years. The joy of a new toy is another factor- I think that's just a human trait, that anticipation for a shiny new thing which tends to supplant our interest in the stuff we already have for at least a bit of time. I experience it, and when the shiny new thing turns out to be pretty awesome, it retains the interest long past its 'new stage' and takes its place with our other beloved older toys. Other new toys turn out to be mediocre, not what we expected, just plain bad, or lose their interest for us relegating them to forgotten corners of our collections or the selling block on your market of choice. Expectations- this is a big one, and as passionate collectors, it's intrinsic to our fandom. We want certain things from our toys- good quality, in terms of robot toys, above average to excellent articulation, nice details, a satisfyingly complex but not anxiety-inducing or frustrating transformation process, accuracy to various official media, be it animation, line art, or real-world inspirations. This is the one that drives those 70 pages of wonder, critique, questions and foaming at the mouth over concessions and inconsistencies, real or supposed. To a point it's fun, until it's not, and I'm sure we've all had our experiences with the dark side of collecting and fandom. Even LEGO has its share of negative detractors. Nothing we do is immune from reaction, both positive and negative. Reaction is a choice, and I try to be positive. Some folks find it difficult or just seem consumed by negativity and I lament that their lives will be colored by that dark outlook rather than just inherently finding joy in things. Collecting should, at its basest level, be enjoyable. It's what we like, and today we're so incredibly fortunate for the richness of availability that certainly never existed when we older folks from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and even into the 00s were younger. Anyway, the cycle you described @Raikkonen will continue to hold true for passionate fans as long as humans exist. I think the desire for new things, even new takes on old things, will always drive us, and that's a good thing. That innate human need drives progress. Otherwise, we'd still be driving horse and buggies on unimproved streets and using outhouses. Perish the thought!  maintaining my positivity, I continue to look forward to the DX YF-21. My expectations are tempered given what we've seen, but with the bad I see the good, too, at least from the perspective of a Macross fan who prefers battroid mode for his displays. At this point, I just hope it has tight joints, can stand on its own, and that the transformation is pleasant. For the price, I think those are pragmatic and justified expectations. In short, I hope this is one that won't just be forgotten within days in anticipation of the next thing. :)

Entirely agree with these sentiments. :good:

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13 hours ago, MKT said:

I'm now only just thinking that the HG 1/100 line will stop at Macross 7 valks lol.

Scale is a factor though. I think most people can't just pretend 1/72 from any brand are just the same size as a 1/100 lined up beside it. Bandai's old 1/72 were also hard to get into for less hardcore modellers because of transformation complexity, durability, size, and price, while still requiring small amounts of parts forming. As strange as it may sound, I think a lot of people would prefer not dealing with fiddly transformation on delicate parts, and tons of potential weak joints in a model kit. Just having everything in one consistent and much more accessible lineup should do wonders for demand too, and there is no competition for the later valks at the 1/100 scale either.

Let's not forget they already did the YF-29 as well.

I imagine Bandai will continue to at least test the waters for the other series, and throw out an Alto messaiah and Hayate seigfried. If those go well, it will be easy for them to palette swap and work those molds to death.

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9 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

Scale is a factor though. I think most people can't just pretend 1/72 from any brand are just the same size as a 1/100 lined up beside it. Bandai's old 1/72 were also hard to get into for less hardcore modellers because of transformation complexity, durability, size, and price, while still requiring small amounts of parts forming. As strange as it may sound, I think a lot of people would prefer not dealing with fiddly transformation on delicate parts, and tons of potential weak joints in a model kit. Just having everything in one consistent and much more accessible lineup should do wonders for demand too, and there is no competition for the later valks at the 1/100 scale either.

Let's not forget they already did the YF-29 as well.

I imagine Bandai will continue to at least test the waters for the other series, and throw out an Alto messaiah and Hayate seigfried. If those go well, it will be easy for them to palette swap and work those molds to death.


Oops I totally missed the YF-29 (chalk it down to I'm just so uninterested in it, it was totally out of my mind lol), and I think you are right on the other factors. 

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10 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

Scale is a factor though. I think most people can't just pretend 1/72 from any brand are just the same size as a 1/100 lined up beside it. Bandai's old 1/72 were also hard to get into for less hardcore modellers because of transformation complexity, durability, size, and price, while still requiring small amounts of parts forming. As strange as it may sound, I think a lot of people would prefer not dealing with fiddly transformation on delicate parts, and tons of potential weak joints in a model kit. Just having everything in one consistent and much more accessible lineup should do wonders for demand too, and there is no competition for the later valks at the 1/100 scale either.

Let's not forget they already did the YF-29 as well.

I imagine Bandai will continue to at least test the waters for the other series, and throw out an Alto messaiah and Hayate seigfried. If those go well, it will be easy for them to palette swap and work those molds to death.

I built up transforming VF-27, VF-31, and SV-262 kits (and the craptacular VF-1), and would definitely take a 1/100 parts-former over 2 of the 3. The SV-262 is just great, however.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Actar said:

Looks like it's my fate to constantly miss out getting this for a decent price...

I share your pain.  I FOMOed and took out a second mortgage to buy my first.  If it’s any consolation, I promise to offer you the one I keep MISB at (cost-15%) if I end up hating the one I open.

Edited by 26662
wording and I wanted to increase the discount price
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18 hours ago, 26662 said:

I share your pain.  I FOMOed and took out a second mortgage to buy my first.  If it’s any consolation, I promise to offer you the one I keep MISB at (cost-15%) if I end up hating the one I open.

Wow, I'd really appreciate it! I'll definitely take you up on that!

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I love the tampo printing and leg proportions better than Yamato, but not sure I'm liking what they did with the backpack depth. The overhead shelf hiding the huge gap looks ok, but the side profile isn't nearly as attractive. 

I haven't gotten in on an order yet anyway, so might be moot.

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17 hours ago, Uxi said:

I love the tampo printing and leg proportions better than Yamato, but not sure I'm liking what they did with the backpack depth. The overhead shelf hiding the huge gap looks ok, but the side profile isn't nearly as attractive. 

I haven't gotten in on an order yet anyway, so might be moot.

I copy you on that backpack; Yamato was able to make theirs sit much more compactly to the body. Bandai has had a decade to study that toy and capitalize on its finer points, but obviously, and disappointingly, they went their own way and not necessarily for the best. Honestly, the bigger legs are the main selling point for me, as I detested the skinny legs and wobbly hips on the otherwise perfect Yamato. I think Arcadia is passing up a golden opportunity to tweak that toy, improving the leg proportions, and essentially putting out a better product than their competition. That said, knowing at least superficially some of the DX's flaws already, I'm willing to give the toy the benefit of the doubt. If nothing else, I think the battroid looks alright, and I like all the tampo markings compared to Yamarcadia's dearth of markings. Since battroid is my favorite mode and how I display my valks, I think I'll be ok with it as long as it can stand on its own without falling over at the slightest provocation. I hope it's more fun to transform than the Sv-262. 

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6 minutes ago, M&#x27;Kyuun said:

I hope it's more fun to transform than the Sv-262. 

I thought the SV-262 transformation was okay for the most part as far as difficulty is concerned, but the parts I hated was getting the hands in while taking it back to fighter mode without breaking the dang thumbs. It was also really fiddly to align properly sometimes. On top of that, it was stressful trying to transform it with the tight tolerances giving little room to move certain pieces while trying to avoid scraping off paint. It's the stress and worry that made it not fun for me. 

I hope Bandai's 21 will not be so stressful that I have to worry about parts breaking or paint scraping off.

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1 hour ago, MacrossJunkie said:

I thought the SV-262 transformation was okay for the most part as far as difficulty is concerned, but the parts I hated was getting the hands in while taking it back to fighter mode without breaking the dang thumbs. It was also really fiddly to align properly sometimes. On top of that, it was stressful trying to transform it with the tight tolerances giving little room to move certain pieces while trying to avoid scraping off paint. It's the stress and worry that made it not fun for me. 

I hope Bandai's 21 will not be so stressful that I have to worry about parts breaking or paint scraping off.

It was the confounded wing linkages that caused me frustration. Been years since I last tried, and I'm sure I encountered other challenges with it, but those linkages are what stayed with me.

Bit disappointed with the lackluster ankle articulation; usually Bandai's pretty good about giving their valks a decent range, but the 262's ankles are really limited. Beautiful valk though with a unique looking battroid.

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Although Yamato's backpack sits close to the body, it really does hinder arm articulation. I was handling a 22 again not too long ago, and the elbows always want to bang against the backpack. Bandai's shouldn't have that problem, but they potentially might have overcompensated in that area with that big shelf between the shoulders lol..

Anyway, it's almost upon us and sculpt aside, fingers crossed Bandai delivers a product with solid build, engineering and tolerances. 

 

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58 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

In person. Big gap. PO cancelled. :spiteful:

Here’s the rest of the photos taken at Tamashii Nations Store Tokyo:

Quality and all the detail, the extra tampo too, all looks gorgeous.

But by that large area behind the head and that gap... it's unacceptable considering it's Bandai, their experience in making them, and the tools they have to make these toys in 2024.

I'm glad I'm not a diehard fan of this Valk, cause it would hurt being on the wall about it... 

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1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

eF3vHPi.jpeg

yHa1ikf.jpeg

Curious to see how the backpack attaches without the stand. Gap might be reduced without having to sandwich the stand in the middle. 

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So how does this look in official Pengroid mode? Now this YF-21 looks like Rob Liefield designed it with a itty bitty nose cone, stubby neck and super hyper roided out extended body. 

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