Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[Bolt]

39 minutes ago, Reïvaj said:

Is it me or Macross toys are getting more and more complex and detailed lately?

I mean the design and engineering is quite impressive, true enough. I've already expressed my gripes about the aesthetics, so no point in beating a dead VF. This is what we're getting. Having said all that, i do think of the cost, swoosh ability, and durability factors. If everything lines up, it's a winner. But due to Bandai's qc issues, that occasionally come up, i am a little nervous..

[no3Ljm]

As much as I appreciate the impressive over-engineering aspects of it, I fear that is now more prone to stress.

 

[Bolt]

Agreed. So as "high end" toy collectors. We are expected to transform these toys only a few times ever. They're really just meant for display anyway. 

[borgified]

So that means leaving it in a museum type display with climate controlled devices and handling it with white cotton gloves when it needs to be stored away somewhere else.  Oh the crazy things we all do for our hobby collection fixes.  

[Shawn]

oh.....so I'm the only one that uses Chogokin gloves?

😛

[Bolt]

 Lol! How is it when transforming the SV-262 with those on? 

[M'Kyuun]

Well, at this point, I think we all agree that this doesn't share the same level of polish as their VF-19 Advance/ YF-19. From my standpoint as a battroid guy, it fixes the main issue I had with the Yamato- the too-thin legs. However, it still has issues that could certainly do with tweaks, but at this point I think we're getting what we're seeing. Is it better than no YF-21 toy at all? IMHO, yep.

 

Edit: Sometimes it helps to read what you've written to ensure you're expressing your thoughts properly. Initially I didn't. Fixed.

Edited November 7, 2023 by M'Kyuun

[Shawn]

The Tamashi Nations show is on the 17th, so in just 11 more days we should hopefully see some more pictures from the displays and see the current version in development.

[Bolt]

I think it is better than no YF-21 at all. For everyone's sake. How the toy passes review will tell much. 

21 minutes ago, Shawn said:

The Tamashi Nations show is on the 17th, so in just 11 more days we should hopefully see some more pictures from the displays and see the current version in development.

Based on the new picks we've been getting, I can't imagine it's gonna look much different. At least we'll get some different angles of it , when the event happens. 

[M'Kyuun]

22 minutes ago, Shawn said:

The Tamashi Nations show is on the 17th, so in just 11 more days we should hopefully see some more pictures from the displays and see the current version in development.

Digits crossed that there are improvements, but at this stage I doubt it. Gonna get it anyway. 😜

[aurance]

6 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Getting back OT, I hope Bandai makes some sort of PO announcement soon. Warts be damned, we've waited far too long for a new YF-21 and overall, as I've said since this thing was frst intro'd, I'll take it as-is if only b/c the battroid proportions look better to me, at least so far as the legs go.  That said, I'd be thrilled to no end if Arcadia tweaked the nigh-perfect Yamato design to have thicker legs that look more proportionally correct even if it means the jet has a slightly fatter back end; that's a concession I'll take all day long. 

 

That’s exactly what I would’ve wanted too.

[MKT]

Who knows, maybe when it is eventually released, it will feel very much impressive in hand that the other faults we are seeing now in images will be overlooked. It has certainly happened to me in the past.

 

5 hours ago, Shawn said:

oh.....so I'm the only one that uses Chogokin gloves?

😛

The fact that is 'not for sale' makes it highly coveted. 

 

[Paco Grande]

8 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Just toys in general. Many Transformers toys these days have this kind of detail in panels and even in some of the hollow areas in arms and legs where they're conserving plastic. I love detail, especially molded detail, so it's a practice I welcome. Of course, if the toy is crap but has a ton of nice detail, it's essentially a gilded turd, so there's always that situation. 😄

It’s a common misconception that companies are trying to save money on plastic by making hollow areas but the reality is that the molding process demands it. The plastic parts must have a mostly uniform thickness for the molten plastic to flow properly. The parts usually require raised areas for plastic flow or strength so Takara and other companies will make those raised areas look like cool mechanical details instead of just boring bumps. I also believe in some cases they just do it for fun or because it looks cool. So what I’m saying is that they are actually adding plastic to a thin sheet to give it strength and help the plastic flow.  They aren’t removing plastic to save money. 

[Chronocidal]

53 minutes ago, Paco Grande said:

It’s a common misconception that companies are trying to save money on plastic by making hollow areas but the reality is that the molding process demands it. The plastic parts must have a mostly uniform thickness for the molten plastic to flow properly. The parts usually require raised areas for plastic flow or strength so Takara and other companies will make those raised areas look like cool mechanical details instead of just boring bumps. I also believe in some cases they just do it for fun or because it looks cool. So what I’m saying is that they are actually adding plastic to a thin sheet to give it strength and help the plastic flow.  They aren’t removing plastic to save money. 

I don't think that's quite the same thing.  The money saving in question is related to the fact that they didn't bother to make a second half to the part, and cover up the gaps.  It's really easy to close up those spaces if you make the parts out of more than one molded piece, but that adds both material cost, and assembly time.

It's why so many third-party mod kits involve covers for the hollow parts.

[R0P3-F15H]

9 hours ago, Shawn said:

oh.....so I'm the only one that uses Chogokin gloves?

😛

im unsure if this is something i should actually worry over now.... 😵

[m0n5t3r]

10 hours ago, Shawn said:

oh.....so I'm the only one that uses Chogokin gloves?

😛

I have a set of these, still unused haha. Hate it when these cotton type gloves get caught on some sharp or pointy part of a toy.

 

10 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

As much as I appreciate the impressive over-engineering aspects of it, I fear that is now more prone to stress.

 

Based on experience with other Bandai toys that seem to me to have over-engineered parts, the fear is real... cracked/damaged plastic parts connected to metal parts and screws. 

[MacrossJunkie]

10 hours ago, Shawn said:

oh.....so I'm the only one that uses Chogokin gloves?

😛

I didn't know that was a thing. Do they leave white lint on what you handle or are they lintless?

[davidwhangchoi]

what colors do they have?

[borgified]

Colours for what in particular @davidwhangchoi? Gloves to handle the DX YF-21 or you referring to the Chogokin cotton gloves that’s pictured? 

Those gloves are available in white, but you can get nitrile plastic gloves (food safe) in any colour you want to fiddle with the valks that you have. I remember that we all discussed this in a previous thread couple of years ago. You can also try heavy thick gardening gloves if you’re up to the challenge. 

 

[scand]

Does anyone know if the DX-21 will include fast packs? The picture 1 page back looked like it showed the HG version of the 21.

[Paco Grande]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:09 PM, Chronocidal said:

I don't think that's quite the same thing.  The money saving in question is related to the fact that they didn't bother to make a second half to the part, and cover up the gaps.  It's really easy to close up those spaces if you make the parts out of more than one molded piece, but that adds both material cost, and assembly time.

It's why so many third-party mod kits involve covers for the hollow parts.

 

I think you missed the point. We aren't talking about hollow parts that are just unfinished gaps you see on mainline Transformers. We are talking about the molded details inside the limb of a Masterpiece Transformer. There is often cool molded details inside the limbs that you only see during Transformation. Doesn't really matter though. I'm just trying to say that many people dismiss certain plastic parts as being "cheap" but the reality is that they needed to be done that way in order to be molded properly without sink marks etc. Having an ugly gap on a figure because they didn't bother enclosing it with another part is an entirely different issue. 

[davidwhangchoi]

17 hours ago, borgified said:

Colours for what in particular @davidwhangchoi? Gloves to handle the DX YF-21 or you referring to the Chogokin cotton gloves that’s pictured? 

Those gloves are available in white, but you can get nitrile plastic gloves (food safe) in any colour you want to fiddle with the valks that you have. I remember that we all discussed this in a previous thread couple of years ago. You can also try heavy thick gardening gloves if you’re up to the challenge. 

 

no colors in particular just curious if they had different colors.

[no3Ljm]

4 hours ago, scand said:

Does anyone know if the DX-21 will include fast packs? The picture 1 page back looked like it showed the HG version of the 21.

I believe you're referring to my post from the previous page. No, it's not the HG kit.  

And yes, it looks like it will come with Fast Pack as shown in the test shot below from HJWeb.  

On 11/6/2023 at 10:16 AM, no3Ljm said:

 

[IIymij]

I'm a terrible photoshoper but if this is anything to go by, it looks closer to old yf-21 nose length. Not to mention the wing just looks massive

 

The angle of the video might change the dimensions slightly 

Credits to https://anymoon.com/blog/?p=2477 for having these pix for me to reference to

Edited November 11, 2023 by IIymij

[26662]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:02 PM, IIymij said:

I'm a terrible photoshoper but if this is anything to go by, it looks closer to old yf-21 nose length. Not to mention the wing just looks massive

 

The angle of the video might change the dimensions slightly 

Credits to https://anymoon.com/blog/?p=2477 for having these pix for me to reference to

Wonderful comparison, but I think it's more illustrative to align the valkyries on a feature other than the tip of the nosecone (see attached).  That said, I have no idea if each of the valkyries in your/Anymoon's image was scaled correctly. 

[jenius]

I change the scale to make them all the same size so they can be compared to each other. I think both comparisons do a good job of showing the DX shifts the mid point of the line art forward.

[Chronocidal]

What's actually the most interesting thing about that image is that it looks so close to the original Yamato 1/72.  That was from before I started collecting, so I never had one, but I want to say that gives me at least a little hope for the overall proportions?  I still want to see planform views of it to compare without warped perspectives playing a role, but even matching that well makes me wonder.

[Chaos]

On 10/31/2023 at 12:07 PM, M'Kyuun said:

Cheers from eastern WA! 😄

On point observation regarding the 21's design. Of all his valks, this is the only one I can think of that's essentially a shellformer. And yet, even with that additional cheat, the design still suffers from an inordinate amount of animation magic to achieve its proportions between modes. 

This is the line art for the leg transformation. as you can see, the legs are indeed supposed to turn laterally for storage in fighter, but as you can also see, the lower legs are visibly shrunken to fit them within the confines of the aft fuselage. I never understood why Kawamori-san even bothered with the belly plates, why he didn't just tuck the legs in battroid config up into the engine nacelles, or why he didn't have the lower legs, turned sideways, feature some sort of panel fu to lessen their width and to cover more space on the bottom of the plane. Any of those options would have been better than those abominable belly plates. I hate those things with a passion. Note that he doesn't give a very clear idea of how the arm armatures work either; it's more suggestion than a clear mechanical design. This thing was fudged from the word go, all to have it be reminiscent of the Queadluun Rau, which I can appreciate given Guld's Zentraedi lineage, but the design approach was uncharacteristically hamfisted. It's little wonder that proportions tend to be an issue for toymakers. FWIW, I doubt Yamato's will ever be surpassed in its fighter mode- it's simply gorgeous. but then, that was obviously the primary focus of the design, and they executed it very well. I wish they'd compromised the thinness of the fighter just enough to allow for larger legs, but they didn't. I'd still welcome a retool of that design with larger legs and hopefully more robust hip joints. That, IMHO, would be a nigh-perfect YF-21 toy. I'm a battroid guy, so Bandai is winning me over with their version, even it, too, has its warts.

Cheers from southern Washington!

Personally, for me, discussing proportion about Valkyries is like discussing scale about Transformers.  Yes, there's an "official" reference, but it's not that great (the Sunbow chart makes up a lot of the scale relationships, and the isometric Macross linearts are often made after the fact).  Personally, if the figure looks good by itself, not in regards to a screenshot or lineart, then I feel it's a good display piece.  If it is made of sturdy construction, then it's a good toy as well.  We're already throwing out many of the reference lineart concepts (like the flippy feet instead of slidey feet) to make this a better toy, why nitpick about a slightly different nose shape or fin shape?

BTW, I love your Lego designs, not just your Macross inspired ones, but all of them, especially the transforming designs.  I love that you integrate classic themes into them, too, like the Konig Monster being in classic space colors

[no3Ljm]

Displayed at Tamashii Nations 2023.

[nightmareB4macross]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:11 PM, Shawn said:

oh.....so I'm the only one that uses Chogokin gloves?

😛

Hahaha!

what about a DX face mask to prevent us from heavily breathing onto our DX figures during strenuous and delicate transformations.

[Mog]

I KNEW IT:  our breath expels CO2, which chemically bonds to the plastic of our Valks, which causes excess oxidation, which leads to . . . 

. . . YELLOWED VALKS!!!!11!1!1!!!!

Only solution is to hold our breaths whenever handling our Valks.

[R0P3-F15H]

nah see you gotta take it into a clean room with a suit, get every last bit of dust off them then hermetically seal it in a box made of UV protective glass or acrylic! now it'll be perfect~!

[nightmareB4macross]

Nah. Once AI figures how transforms our VFs for us, we will be obsolete. No need for gloves, mask, suits, special rooms, etc. 😜 

[seti88]

1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

Displayed at Tamashii Nations 2023.

Next summer means pre-orders soon-ish?

Hmmm fighter mode certainly has slimmed down....battroid...hmmm...

i think the biceps should look bigger...💪 and not 🦾 

Edited November 16, 2023 by seti88

[borgified]

I'm still in for the DX YF-21 with sunny side up punch effects. Fold Booster is mostly a TWE pre-order later on.