Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[M'Kyuun]

7 hours ago, rematron said:

Honestly, I'm really getting used to Bandai's vision of the YF-21 and its proportions.  It reminds me a little of an F-35 in the nose, canopy and forward fuselage. in this rendition.  I'm looking forward to the PO and getting one in my hands and on my shelf. 

Here's a thought: What if this mecha had been imagined and designed within the last few years using computer graphics instead of hand drawn and therefor wasn't using nearly as much anime magic to pull off its presentation in various modes?  Would we have gotten something more like this in the first place? 

It may be improved upon in the future and I'd welcome that but I'm super excited to get this version now.  Being a watcher of Macross back in its incarnation with DYRL, Macross Plus got me back into the franchise when it came out and the YF-21 has been one of my favorite valks ever since. 

Considering that Kawamori-san still does his designs by hand, my thinking is that it likely would have turned out the same way. CAD existed in the mid-90s when he did the M+ designs, but he's a traditional artist who seems to prefer drawing by hand. Given that a number of his designs have been translated into toys, I don't know if he draws with that in mind, but as you said, even with Frontier and likely Delta, there's still some animation magic involved, and likely always will be.

In that regard, I give props to Yamato/Arcadia and Bandai for translating those drawings into fully functional transforming toys. Having translated Kawamori-san's Variable Glaug, VF-4, and VB-6 Konig Monster into fully transformable LEGO models, I understand the challenges involved.

[Sanity is Optional]

56 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Considering that Kawamori-san still does his designs by hand, my thinking is that it likely would have turned out the same way. CAD existed in the mid-90s when he did the M+ designs, but he's a traditional artist who seems to prefer drawing by hand. Given that a number of his designs have been translated into toys, I don't know if he draws with that in mind, but as you said, even with Frontier and likely Delta, there's still some animation magic involved, and likely always will be.

It would definitely have gone back to Kawamori for a second pass, or had the proportions changed a bit so that the CAD models/transformations would mostly work. I can see him adding in leg shortening mechanisms, maybe shrinking the calves or tweaking the torso a bit.

[ErikElvis]

I’m kinda liking what I’m seeing. Not perfect in any mode I don’t think but it works. Never beat Yamato fighter mode though. 

[MKT]

We do see CGI animation of the YF-21, in the form of the VF-22 in Macross Delta. But it is only in Fighter, and in my hazy memory the angles it was presented in made it pretty difficult to make out the proportions vs what was shown in older media. It might be a worthwhile exercise to revisit those episodes & do some freeze frame comparisons..
But yeah, CGI models can still be manipulated for anime magic, though it has been much more subtle & not in the degree it was in older hand-drawn Macross shows.

 

On 10/30/2023 at 2:33 PM, no3Ljm said:

I also realized that the legs rotate 180° from Fighter to Gerwalk/Battroid. Technically hiding the protruding section of the lower legs to the backpack booster housing. Makes sense why when we saw the Fighter mode for the first time in side profile when it was announced, we noticed that the booster housing is tall.

Great observation.  It also kinda tallies with speculation of the legs having thigh swivels. 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by MKT

[raptormesh]

Glad I still kept a single VF-22 Gamlin from my collection of 12+. The fighter mode on the older ones can't be beat. 

Still interested in this one though. Have also PO'd the 1/100 Hi-metal one. Not complaining as a big fan of this planform. 

[jenius]

5 minutes ago, raptormesh said:

Glad I still kept a single VF-22 Gamlin from my collection of 12+. The fighter mode on the older ones can't be beat. 

Still interested in this one though. Have also PO'd the 1/100 Hi-metal one. Not complaining as a big fan of this planform. 

You mean the HG model kit.

[rematron]

14 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Considering that Kawamori-san still does his designs by hand, my thinking is that it likely would have turned out the same way. CAD existed in the mid-90s when he did the M+ designs, but he's a traditional artist who seems to prefer drawing by hand. Given that a number of his designs have been translated into toys, I don't know if he draws with that in mind, but as you said, even with Frontier and likely Delta, there's still some animation magic involved, and likely always will be.

In that regard, I give props to Yamato/Arcadia and Bandai for translating those drawings into fully functional transforming toys. Having translated Kawamori-san's Variable Glaug, VF-4, and VB-6 Konig Monster into fully transformable LEGO models, I understand the challenges involved.

Fair point but we all have to agree that the YF-21 has a whole new special kind of anime magic necessary when it comes to those big legs disappearing into the sleek fighter.  It is, after all, the only one of Kawanori-san's designs that doesn't utilize the 'intake/engine/thruster = leg' format which enables him to 'hide' the legs in plain sight.  Even the line art and drawings I've seen don't really address how the big legs fit into the little space under the belly plates without squishing the fairly large engines up top.  Not a problem for the VF-1.  I wonder if the design was sort of a personal challenge for Kawamori-san to see if he could break away from the 'legs=engine nacelles' formula.

My defense for the Yamato design has always been that if it were 'real life', big legs wouldn't be necessary to make the mech mobile in battroid because the lift would still be generated by the 'backpack/engines and that would be the majority of the control for its lateral or vertical movement with the legs acting more like kickstands - sort of like an Appollo lunar lander or the legs of a mosquito.  This is to say nothing of how the legs look or support the weight of the TOY.  It's just my brain making a reason for this toy to look the way it does as if I were playing with it in deep imagination mode.

The Bandai design is sort of a different Macross universe in my mind where they (General Galaxy) decided that the legs needed to be big and beefy and agile for whatever reason (in case the engines break down and it still needs to be mobile?) And they (Bandai) tackled the question of what the plane would actually look like if it needed beefy legs AND engines.

Just my personal take on it.  Cheers and happy Halloween from the west side of Washington State.

Edited October 31, 2023 by rematron

[Actar]

Way back when I first saw the YF-21, I had always assumed that the legs were the engines, just stored internally in fighter mode. Of course, that was before I knew that it could still fly without the legs.

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, rematron said:

Fair point but we all have to agree that the YF-21 has a whole new special kind of anime magic necessary when it comes to those big legs disappearing into the sleek fighter.  It is, after all, the only one of Kawanori-san's designs that doesn't utilize the 'intake/engine/thruster = leg' format which enables him to 'hide' the legs in plain sight.  Even the line art and drawings I've seen don't really address how the big legs fit into the little space under the belly plates without squishing the fairly large engines up top.  Not a problem for the VF-1.  I wonder if the design was sort of a personal challenge for Kawamori-san to see if he could break away from the 'legs=engine nacelles' formula.

My defense for the Yamato design has always been that if it were 'real life', big legs wouldn't be necessary to make the mech mobile in battroid because the lift would still be generated by the 'backpack/engines and that would be the majority of the control for its lateral or vertical movement with the legs acting more like kickstands - sort of like an Appollo lunar lander or the legs of a mosquito.  This is to say nothing of how the legs look or support the weight of the TOY.  It's just my brain making a reason for this toy to look the way it does as if I were playing with it in deep imagination mode.

The Bandai design is sort of a different Macross universe in my mind where they (General Galaxy) decided that the legs needed to be big and beefy and agile for whatever reason (in case the engines break down and it still needs to be mobile?) And they (Bandai) tackled the question of what the plane would actually look like if it needed beefy legs AND engines.

Just my personal take on it.  Cheers and happy Halloween from the west side of Washington State.

Cheers from eastern WA! 😄

On point observation regarding the 21's design. Of all his valks, this is the only one I can think of that's essentially a shellformer. And yet, even with that additional cheat, the design still suffers from an inordinate amount of animation magic to achieve its proportions between modes. 

This is the line art for the leg transformation. as you can see, the legs are indeed supposed to turn laterally for storage in fighter, but as you can also see, the lower legs are visibly shrunken to fit them within the confines of the aft fuselage. I never understood why Kawamori-san even bothered with the belly plates, why he didn't just tuck the legs in battroid config up into the engine nacelles, or why he didn't have the lower legs, turned sideways, feature some sort of panel fu to lessen their width and to cover more space on the bottom of the plane. Any of those options would have been better than those abominable belly plates. I hate those things with a passion. Note that he doesn't give a very clear idea of how the arm armatures work either; it's more suggestion than a clear mechanical design. This thing was fudged from the word go, all to have it be reminiscent of the Queadluun Rau, which I can appreciate given Guld's Zentraedi lineage, but the design approach was uncharacteristically hamfisted. It's little wonder that proportions tend to be an issue for toymakers. FWIW, I doubt Yamato's will ever be surpassed in its fighter mode- it's simply gorgeous. but then, that was obviously the primary focus of the design, and they executed it very well. I wish they'd compromised the thinness of the fighter just enough to allow for larger legs, but they didn't. I'd still welcome a retool of that design with larger legs and hopefully more robust hip joints. That, IMHO, would be a nigh-perfect YF-21 toy. I'm a battroid guy, so Bandai is winning me over with their version, even it, too, has its warts.

[raptormesh]

7 hours ago, jenius said:

You mean the HG model kit.

Haha yes, that's right. 

 

[Duymon]

We all know the answer

[dtwn]

On 10/31/2023 at 10:09 AM, M'Kyuun said:

Considering that Kawamori-san still does his designs by hand, my thinking is that it likely would have turned out the same way. CAD existed in the mid-90s when he did the M+ designs, but he's a traditional artist who seems to prefer drawing by hand. Given that a number of his designs have been translated into toys, I don't know if he draws with that in mind, but as you said, even with Frontier and likely Delta, there's still some animation magic involved, and likely always will be.

In that regard, I give props to Yamato/Arcadia and Bandai for translating those drawings into fully functional transforming toys. Having translated Kawamori-san's Variable Glaug, VF-4, and VB-6 Konig Monster into fully transformable LEGO models, I understand the challenges involved.

I've seen your stuff on Reddit. Props to you! They're great! The Variable Glaug in particular is brilliant. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by dtwn

[M'Kyuun]

14 hours ago, dtwn said:

I've seen your stuff on Reddit. Props to you! They're great! The Variable Glaug in particular is brilliant. 

Wow, thanks! Really kind compliment.

[rematron]

15 hours ago, dtwn said:

I've seen your stuff on Reddit. Props to you! They're great! The Variable Glaug in particular is brilliant. 

Got me curious. Could you please post a link?

[cheemingwan1234]

I really wish that there was a VF-22 style canopy option for the DX YF-21 included so that you can have a 'what if?' version of the VF-22's early prototype*. That and a canopy cover that fits on the inside of the cockpit or pilot compartment to hide the pilot.*

 

*Bandai included an option for a conventional cockpit with their VF-27 and SV-262hs toys.

 

*Seriously, none of the toys of the YF-21 that are perfect transformation include an option to cover the pilot up?

Edited November 5, 2023 by cheemingwan1234

[dtwn]

19 hours ago, rematron said:

Got me curious. Could you please post a link?

Variable Glaug Reddit Link

Photos of his Lego stuff including the Monster, VF-4 and Glaug https://www.flickr.com/photos/95379588@N08/

All by @M'Kyuun

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by dtwn

[rematron]

3 hours ago, dtwn said:

Variable Glaug Reddit Link

Photos of his Lego stuff including the Monster, VF-4 and Glaug https://www.flickr.com/photos/95379588@N08/

 

 

Thanks for the link, @dtwn!

@M'Kyuun, that’s some really amazing work. Inspiring! I’ve been a big fan of Legos since forever and you’ve taken them to an awesome level!

[Paco Grande]

3 hours ago, dtwn said:

Variable Glaug Reddit Link

Photos of his Lego stuff including the Monster, VF-4 and Glaug https://www.flickr.com/photos/95379588@N08/

 

 

Amazing! Great job!

[Test_Pilot_2]

The Glaug is fantastic!

[Shawn]

Concur-that Glaug is awesome (and the monster and the vf-4 etc), great work!

I'm waiting for someone to pick up the M3 license...someday my vf-3000 will be here

[MKT]

The transforming Osprey chopper is pretty cool too. 

[cheemingwan1234]

Back onto the topic, will the belly plates have hardpoint to mount plyons on? 

[no3Ljm]

21 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Back onto the topic, will the belly plates have hardpoint to mount plyons on? 

I'm not sure if there will be since the YF-21 wasn't shown with missiles under the belly. Also the belly area only mounted Fast Packs and the Gunpods.

But then, who knows, if the holes in the belly plates can be also used for custom missile pylons.

Edited November 6, 2023 by no3Ljm

[M'Kyuun]

12 hours ago, rematron said:

Thanks for the link, @dtwn!

@M'Kyuun, that’s some really amazing work. Inspiring! I’ve been a big fan of Legos since forever and you’ve taken them to an awesome level!

 

12 hours ago, Paco Grande said:

Amazing! Great job!

 

10 hours ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

The Glaug is fantastic!

 

9 hours ago, Shawn said:

Concur-that Glaug is awesome (and the monster and the vf-4 etc), great work!

Massive thanks to each of you for your compliments. More than most, your knowledge and passion for Macross adds weight to your praise, and I'm touched and humbled. I hope I inspire.

@rematronIf you ever have an opportunity to go to BrickCon, a huge AFOL organized LEGO convention now being held at the Meydenbauer Center in Bellevue in the fall, I generally attend every year and bring all my transforming LEGO models. It'd be my great pleasure to meet a fellow MWer and perhaps show off a MOC or two. 😁

2 hours ago, MKT said:

The transforming Osprey chopper is pretty cool too. 

Means a lot to me. My VV-1 is a custom design with obvious inspiration taken from the V-22 Osprey. I worked on realizing it for about a decade, but that helicopter cockpit piece became the nexus around which I was finally able to bring my vision to physical fruition. I consider it my magnum opus. As such, compliments are especially meaningful and you have my gratitude.

[26662]

4 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

I'm not sure if there will be since the YF-21 wasn't shown with missiles under the belly. Also the belly area only mounted Fast Packs and the Gunpods.

But then, who knows, if the holes in the belly plates can be also used for custom missile pylons.

I imagine you can repurpose the belly plate holes to fit all manner of custom accessories.  But you'll limit the use of the official display stand if I'm seeing things clearly (see pic).

[Test_Pilot_2]

8 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

 

 

 

Massive thanks to each of you for your compliments. More than most, your knowledge and passion for Macross adds weight to your praise, and I'm touched and humbled. I hope I inspire.

@rematronIf you ever have an opportunity to go to BrickCon, a huge AFOL organized LEGO convention now being held at the Meydenbauer Center in Bellevue in the fall, I generally attend every year and bring all my transforming LEGO models. It'd be my great pleasure to meet a fellow MWer and perhaps show off a MOC or two. 😁

Means a lot to me. My VV-1 is a custom design with obvious inspiration taken from the V-22 Osprey. I worked on realizing it for about a decade, but that helicopter cockpit piece became the nexus around which I was finally able to bring my vision to physical fruition. I consider it my magnum opus. As such, compliments are especially meaningful and you have my gratitude.

The Osprey is really cool, my mind is blown at all of it frankly. It's like you took my childhood shenanigans with my jank lego robots and realized them - but as anti-jank. Full transparency, I'm trying to solve for how you built the Glaug since I'm pretty sure that is the only way to get a physical version of it for my collection and the fighter mode looks fantastic.

I'm struggling to process how you fit that much functionality into such a tight package. I don't want to digress much further from Bandai's YF-22 here, but as nice (and controversial) as the 22 is, your Glaug really stole the show for me.

[Reïvaj]

Is it me or Macross toys are getting more and more complex and detailed lately?

[no3Ljm]

8 hours ago, 26662 said:

I imagine you can repurpose the belly plate holes to fit all manner of custom accessories.  But you'll limit the use of the official display stand if I'm seeing things clearly (see pic).

That is correct. Although I'm not sure how they will attach it to the stand if you have the Fast Pack attached to it? You also have to check again the photo you provided above that the stand connector is not lining up where the holes on the photo I provided on the belly plates. But then, that photo is already years old. They probably changed where the holes are going to be and probably widen up the stand connector. Assuming its where the stand connects to the belly. 

Anyways, I just pointed out the 'holes' shown in the belly plate if ever they want to add custom missile pylons on the belly seeing that there's no mounts under the wing section.

[no3Ljm]

1 minute ago, Reïvaj said:

Is it me or Macross toys are getting more and more complex and detailed lately?

You missed how tampo-heavy they become. Also, Bandai loves to over-engineer stuff. 

 

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

The Osprey is really cool, my mind is blown at all of it frankly. It's like you took my childhood shenanigans with my jank lego robots and realized them - but as anti-jank. Full transparency, I'm trying to solve for how you built the Glaug since I'm pretty sure that is the only way to get a physical version of it for my collection and the fighter mode looks fantastic.

I'm struggling to process how you fit that much functionality into such a tight package. I don't want to digress much further from Bandai's YF-22 here, but as nice (and controversial) as the 22 is, your Glaug really stole the show for me.

This has to be one of the nicest compliments I've ever received for any of my LEGO MOCs, and I thank you most kindly.  

Getting back OT, I hope Bandai makes some sort of PO announcement soon. Warts be damned, we've waited far too long for a new YF-21 and overall, as I've said since this thing was frst intro'd, I'll take it as-is if only b/c the battroid proportions look better to me, at least so far as the legs go.  That said, I'd be thrilled to no end if Arcadia tweaked the nigh-perfect Yamato design to have thicker legs that look more proportionally correct even if it means the jet has a slightly fatter back end; that's a concession I'll take all day long. 

 

[no3Ljm]

2 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Getting back OT, I hope Bandai makes some sort of PO announcement soon. Warts be damned, we've waited far too long for a new YF-21 and overall, as I've said since this thing was frst intro'd, I'll take it as-is if only b/c the battroid proportions look better to me, at least so far as the legs go.  That said, I'd be thrilled to no end if Arcadia tweaked the nigh-perfect Yamato design to have thicker legs that look more proportionally correct even if it means the jet has a slightly fatter back end; that's a concession I'll take all day long. 

Same here. Besides, DX Isamu is getting lonely for years now. He needs his sparring partner.  

[M'Kyuun]

6 minutes ago, Reïvaj said:

Is it me or Macross toys are getting more and more complex and detailed lately?

Just toys in general. Many Transformers toys these days have this kind of detail in panels and even in some of the hollow areas in arms and legs where they're conserving plastic. I love detail, especially molded detail, so it's a practice I welcome. Of course, if the toy is crap but has a ton of nice detail, it's essentially a gilded turd, so there's always that situation. 😄

[Reïvaj]

14 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

You missed how tampo-heavy they become. Also, Bandai loves to over-engineer stuff. 

 

If eventually the tampo gets to be anything as heavy as what we've seen so far, I'm prepared to eliminate a bit of the excess, specially some of the yellow and white lines...

[Chronocidal]

I can't call the complexity a benefit at this point, especially when discussing Bandai.

I had to adjust the tightness on one of my YF-19's hips recently, and the sheer number of parts involved in that hip joint hurt my brain.  The stresses involved in moving that stupid joint were enough to make me think I was going to shatter the entire hip, which has happened to people before.

They need to lay off whatever engineering related drugs they're on, because their complexity is flat out detrimental to the products at this point.  They can't even use the excuse that they're making a market for spare parts, because they don't sell any in the first place.   

It's like they're trying to drive artificial scarcity of their product by making sure a certain number just completely break apart and fail within some amount of time.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Chronocidal

[Reïvaj]

Although I really like the level of detail on the YF-19 - I mean, I think it's used well - I'd like to get my hands on the toy to see if this is used with the same success on this YF-21. And I hope so, because on the other hand I don't really agree with some design decisions...