Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[Big s]

7 hours ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

Looks like the Yamato is the one to have for fighter display while the new Bandai is the one for battroid.

Why not both?

Or the upcoming hg kit for the battroid.

Honestly the battroid on this doesn’t bug me as much as I thought it would. The arms are definitely too thin, but I’d much rather have thin arms than thin legs. It kinda looks like the forearms are a bit wider from the side angle rather than a circular tube shape. I’d probably buy it if it wasn’t so big and expensive. I don’t really have the cash or space for it. I kinda wish they colored the prototype in the magazine picture to give a better look at it in fighter mode, it looks a bit off but may be more of a coloring issue. I’d still leave it in the battroid mode if I were to buy one

[lechuck]

Articulation for the DX looks like it will make it a joy to handle and place in dynamic poses. The flip out shin and extending foot is a much better approach for Battroid stability, compared to the unstable and annoying sliding mechanism that Yamato employed. For fighter mode it is great that we don't have to use the underside of the feet to fill out the back end.

The DX Battroid also has an overall better silhouette/structure to me, it doesn't suffer from wide hip syndrome like the Yamato.
I also like how the head seems to poke out of the hood and be more visible.

[sh9000]

Looking forward to posing the DX YF-19 and DX YF-21 flying together in Fighter mode and dueling in Battroid mode.  The HGs will be fun too.

[Lolicon]

18 hours ago, seti88 said:

That looks like zeta gundam in flight mode?

That's what it always looked like to me. 

 

17 hours ago, MacrossJunkie said:

[Shawn]

someone on YJ had a ve-1 posted upside down for the longest time, and I always got zeta vibes from it in thumbnail mode

[no3Ljm]

Since the DX version of the belly plate got shorter, that means in Gerwalk, it won't be connected perpendicularly to the back of the fighter like the lineart nor like the Yamato's, correct?

[DownIsUp]

13 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Since the DX version of the belly plate got shorter, that means in Gerwalk, it won't be connected perpendicularly to the back of the fighter like the lineart nor like the Yamato's, correct?

It might be crazy, but I actually think gerwalk mode probably benefits most from the new less accurate proportions. The legs might be a little far forward, but I think it looks much less off-putting than the Yamato's positioning them so far back.

[ArchieNov]

3 hours ago, DownIsUp said:

It might be crazy, but I actually think gerwalk mode probably benefits most from the new less accurate proportions. The legs might be a little far forward, but I think it looks much less off-putting than the Yamato's positioning them so far back.

You're not crazy. That Yamato YF-21 gerwalk looks damn ugly.

I know some people keep mentioning the nose being too short. But if you compare that picture of the gerwalk with Bandai's YF-21, you'll notice that the nose length on Bandai's is actually closer to that picture. Yamato's YF-21 nose is too long. But I'll admit that the longer nose does make the fighter look sleeker.

Edited October 27, 2023 by ArchieNov

[dur]

Random thought: are the weird proportion decisions on the arms to facilitate internal gunpod storage on a future VF-22?

[Chronocidal]

53 minutes ago, dur said:

Random thought: are the weird proportion decisions on the arms to facilitate internal gunpod storage on a future VF-22?

I honestly don't think that will even have any effect on such a feature, since the arms aren't where the gunpod cavities are anyhow.

I really wonder if they're going to do more than just the YF-21 though.  If not enough people are interested, we're probably going to wind up with another Sv-262 situation where they just never revisit it.

[Graham]

The incorrect shape of the front of the canopy on the Bandai DX really bugs me.

[no3Ljm]

8 hours ago, DownIsUp said:

It might be crazy, but I actually think gerwalk mode probably benefits most from the new less accurate proportions. The legs might be a little far forward, but I think it looks much less off-putting than the Yamato's positioning them so far back.

I think the reason why Yamato's leg ended up position more towards to the back is due to the belly plates being able to tab on the arm cover from the backpack. Once the plates are tabbed, it limits the movement of the thigh to bend more the front. Whereas in the DX version, since the plate is now shorter, it doesn't require to tab on the backpack, making the legs to bend freely more towards the front. Also, the belly plates ended up like side skirt in Battroid. And not something that you can angle backward like the lineart and the other YF-21 figures. Whether it's transformable or not.

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, Graham said:

The incorrect shape of the front of the canopy on the Bandai DX really bugs me.

This has been driving me nuts since day one, along with the incorrect tail shapes.  Bandai gonna be Bandai.  

[Mog]

2 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

I think the reason why Yamato's leg ended up position more towards to the back is due to the belly plates being able to tab on the arm cover from the backpack. Once the plates are tabbed, it limits the movement of the thigh to bend more the front. Whereas in the DX version, since the plate is now shorter, it doesn't require to tab on the backpack, making the legs to bend freely more towards the front. Also, the belly plates ended up like side skirt in Battroid. And not something that you can angle backward like the lineart and the other YF-21 figures. Whether it's transformable or not.

Just to clarify:  on the Yamato, it’s not so much an arm cover as it is a hand and wrist cover.  The arms are actually exposed in fighter mode.

[MKT]

It looks like.. Bandai's Gerwalk is turning out to be the real winner here! Best looking mode? 

[seti88]

https://hjweb.jp/article/1205461/ 

HJ Web write-up w similar pics. Some explanations/ Reasons for design choices explained.

Not sure if this pic was shared before...

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by seti88

[sh9000]

[Lolicon]

10 minutes ago, seti88 said:

https://hjweb.jp/article/1205461/ 

HJ Web write-up w similar pics. Some explanations/ Reasons for design choices explained.

Not sure if this pic was shared before...

 

Thanks for sharing the link with the pics! I think everyone here knows how hyperlinks works. 

[seti88]

1) "The key point in reproducing the deformation of "YF-21" with DX Chogokin was the problem of balancing proportions in fighter and battroid forms. A thin and beautiful fighter form reminiscent of the actual YF-23. On the other hand, the long legs and high waist proportions are reminiscent of ``Quadran Ro''. A massive battroid form that looks like it has been condensed into the upper body. The most important issue was how to fit these long legs into a fighter form. The solution was to rotate the ankle and shorten the length of the leg itself."

Yeah..but that seam line running in lower half...compared to the rest of the leg...🤨

2) Still cant see how the limbs would come off for delimited mode...

- The black square under the fuselage seems to be some locking mechanism perhaps...

Edited October 30, 2023 by seti88

[Chronocidal]

Honestly, I have no complaints about the leg, that's an ingenious mechanism to get them to fit properly.

 

[seti88]

7 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Thanks for sharing the link with the pics! I think everyone here knows how hyperlinks works. 

Pics? Don't thank me.....🤣😉

[Shawn]

22 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Thanks for sharing the link with the pics! I think everyone here knows how hyperlinks works. 

Yeah..but hyperlinks expire

macrossworld pics are forever

[orbitalharvest]

12 minutes ago, Shawn said:

Yeah..but hyperlinks expire

macrossworld pics are forever

seriously, are we doing this?  thanks for the beautiful pics!  and this valk is gorgeous!  

[no3Ljm]

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

https://hjweb.jp/article/1205461/ 

HJ Web write-up w similar pics. Some explanations/ Reasons for design choices explained.

Thanks @seti88 for the link! I was able to check the write-ups and explanations at the same time while looking at the photos. 

 

[davidwhangchoi]

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

https://hjweb.jp/article/1205461/ 

HJ Web write-up w similar pics. Some explanations/ Reasons for design choices explained.

nice, thanks for the info

[M'Kyuun]

I wish the hips sat just a little lower in battroid, that the forearms were a little longer and thicker, and that they employed a more attractive elbow joint. However, overall, I think it's a pretty decent looking YF-21. I love the leg foreshortening solution (ingenious, indeed) and the halved belly plates in battroid/GERWALK. The backpack is a bit thick, too, but if the thing can hold itself up without the hip joints just going floppy, that'll be a win over the Yamato. Likewise the more appropriate leg proportions. There are other minor proportional issues, but they don't bother me as much as they do others here. Def will get a copy when it goes up for PO. Hopefully, like all the other recent Macross valks, this one will have availability through US e-tailers. It's been a long wait for a 1/60 YF-21 option besides the Yammie, and I hope this thing at least has effective joints to make up for some of its other shortcomings.

[MKT]

This must be the only valk, or one in a long time, where Bandai extensively previews with lots of explanation notes. I think Bandai must be aware of the pushback toward the design choices and trying to win more folks over with this exercise, and there will even be more explanatory notes in future Hobby Japan issues.

The ankle rotation is a solution that although non-canon, is very acceptable as it is really neat. 

Looking closer at the Gerwalk pics, we can sort of speculate more:

1. The belly plates do not appear to lock to the back overhang, but it looks like they can be angled to make it look like its aligned to the back plate. I believe the belly plates have a swivel joint at the thighs (the black band that goes around the thighs) to allow larger movement range.

2. There doesn't appear to be any knee swivel joint like Yamato's or most of other transforming valks. But it is likely there is a thigh swivel joint for the legs, again at the belly plate swivel joint. No idea why Bandai did this, but perhaps it's for more posing stability?

 

 

[no3Ljm]

I wonder if the back portion (backpack) in fighter mode would help the design to become slimmer if the legs rotate like in Yamato's when stored in Fighter mode.

I also realized that the legs rotate 180° from Fighter to Gerwalk/Battroid. Technically hiding the protruding section of the lower legs to the backpack booster housing. Makes sense why when we saw the Fighter mode for the first time in side profile when it was announced, we noticed that the booster housing is tall.

Edited October 30, 2023 by no3Ljm

[M'Kyuun]

1 minute ago, no3Ljm said:

I wonder if the back portion (backpack) in fighter mode would help the design to become slimmer if the legs rotate like in Yamato's when stored in Fighter mode.

Doubtful. I've always thought it a waste on other YF-21 toys/models not to use those large engine bays to store the legs in fighter mode; it just makes more sense to me to do that than to lay them on their sides despite that being the way it's done in Kawamori's very skewed lineart. This valk design, more than most, relies heavily on animation magic to optimize it aesthetically from mode to mode, and I have zero issues utilizing cool engineering solutions, or just what's given in the design itself, to make the whole work more elegantly and aesthetically.

[no3Ljm]

10 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Doubtful. I've always thought it a waste on other YF-21 toys/models not to use those large engine bays to store the legs in fighter mode; it just makes more sense to me to do that than to lay them on their sides despite that being the way it's done in Kawamori's very skewed lineart. This valk design, more than most, relies heavily on animation magic to optimize it aesthetically from mode to mode, and I have zero issues utilizing cool engineering solutions, or just what's given in the design itself, to make the whole work more elegantly and aesthetically.

To be fair, I'm not against on what Bandai did on the DX. I'm actually looking forward to the PO date.  

But I'm only thinking the possibility of helping the Fighter mode to look slimmer if the legs do rotate in Fighter mode. Helping the booster housing slimmer since it houses the lower legs protruding portion. Seeing that they already changed how the ankle stow, it would've been nice if stowing the feet and at the same time still rotates the leg can benefit on making the end portion of the backpack slimmer in side profile. Unless there's something in the middle of the legs that prevents the design to make the legs rotate sideways in Fighter mode.

But, yeah, at this point in time, regarding YF-21, I'll just take whatever's available. 

[Chronocidal]

At this point, I'm just waiting for some proper planform views of the top and sides.  I think the reason they haven't shown anything like that yet is because they are fully aware of how awkward the proportions are going to be when seen in full.

My biggest concern is that the tails are going to literally be so far forward that they aren't physically capable of acting as rudders, because they're so close to the center of lift.

[Shawn]

11 hours ago, orbitalharvest said:

seriously, are we doing this?  thanks for the beautiful pics!  and this valk is gorgeous!  

It was a silly joke about we've been here for 20+ years and have outlived many ISPs

 

[rematron]

Honestly, I'm really getting used to Bandai's vision of the YF-21 and its proportions.  It reminds me a little of an F-35 in the nose, canopy and forward fuselage. in this rendition.  I'm looking forward to the PO and getting one in my hands and on my shelf. 

Here's a thought: What if this mecha had been imagined and designed within the last few years using computer graphics instead of hand drawn and therefor wasn't using nearly as much anime magic to pull off its presentation in various modes?  Would we have gotten something more like this in the first place? 

It may be improved upon in the future and I'd welcome that but I'm super excited to get this version now.  Being a watcher of Macross back in its incarnation with DYRL, Macross Plus got me back into the franchise when it came out and the YF-21 has been one of my favorite valks ever since. 

[sh9000]

After seeing the pics again, I'm still buying 2.

[Lolicon]

1 hour ago, rematron said:

Honestly, I'm really getting used to Bandai's vision of the YF-21 and its proportions.  It reminds me a little of an F-35 in the nose, canopy and forward fuselage. in this rendition.  I'm looking forward to the PO and getting one in my hands and on my shelf. 

Here's a thought: What if this mecha had been imagined and designed within the last few years using computer graphics instead of hand drawn and therefor wasn't using nearly as much anime magic to pull off its presentation in various modes?  Would we have gotten something more like this in the first place? 

It may be improved upon in the future and I'd welcome that but I'm super excited to get this version now.  Being a watcher of Macross back in its incarnation with DYRL, Macross Plus got me back into the franchise when it came out and the YF-21 has been one of my favorite valks ever since. 

That's an interesting question. I have no doubt that if Macross Plus was made today the CGI versions of the YF-19 and YF-21 would have quite different proportions with far less anime magic than the hand drawn versions. But not zero anime magic, as even Frontier and Delta used a bit of the ol' anime magic despite existing as CG models.