Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[no3Ljm]

17 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Regarding the shortened belly plates on the Bandai model, I actually prefer that over the long ones on the Yamato, which never stayed in place and always seemed to be in the way, obscuring the legs when trying to put them in a pose that would actually hold the damn thing upright. Honestly, I just straight-up hate the belly plates. I've always wondered, given the size and shape of the legs, why Kawamori didn't integrate them better or work in some sort of transformation to flatten them out more in fighter instead of turning the thing into a shell-former. It seems a bit lazy, especially for a guy who generally does an impressive job of integrating bot bits rather seamlessly into the flight modes. Not only did he cheat the leg size in his art, but he employed a rather cheap technique to cover them up. I'm hoping both Bandai and Arcadia find good work-arounds although at this point, I guess we pretty much know what we're getting from Bandai. It's too thick front to back and the arms are bit smallish and short, but it still looks pretty good to me, good enough for a purchase.

I think this is why they shortened the belly plates in Battroid mode. They made it look like a 'side skirt' because there's no way it can pivot towards the back like the original intent due to the backpack being too big. Even if the bottom part of it where the boosters are can still be pushed upward, the skirts will still hit the folded wing section. Bandai thinks of this as its solution because there's no way they will make the backpack smaller. Yamato on the other hand, wish the skits was in ratchet joints. That way, it will stay in place.

And to be honest, I really don't mind they shortened it, but how I wish it's still can be pivot towards the back. It's what makes these two units unique. Even though they're designed by different companies (in-Plus-universe), they shared some similarities.

No matter what, I'm still going to get one, that's for sure. Why? Coz I'm a 'pair' kind of guy. I need it for my Bandai YF-19.  

[MKT]

Nice observations there @no3Ljm. The belly plates / side skirts really look like they can't angle back at all.  This is another complicated factor on the proportions and now I understand even more why Yamato did what they did for their YF-21. Although Yamato's also have a huge backpack, the lower hip point allows the belly plates to angle back. The HM prototype is even more impressive in this regard now. 

[26662]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:02 AM, Paco Grande said:

Thank you for posting that, it made me smile. I'm a rookie on this forum and I'm pretty shocked at how picky everyone is here. I'm also shocked how much money people in here are ready to drop. I'm used to Transformers fans and there is a huge amount of complaining there as well, but TF fans are so cheap and constantly complain about having to pay "so much" when the prices on TF products are typically low compared to other franchises. I'm a mechanical designer so I think I appreciate more just how much effort is required to produce something like this and also how difficult it can be when there are many constraints put on a project. Budget, etc. I'm sure Bandai only gave their team one kick at the can and there is no more budget to fix anything. The designers would happily work on it for years to perfect it, but that's not how it works in large companies. this design was most likely finished back in 2019 and it's just waiting for Bandai to pick a release date. Looks like they decided to wait for the anniversary next year.

At least you don't have endless posts in here about how they will "wait for the KO". Transformers fans are always waiting for the KO and it makes me sick. Takara Tomy posted a video about their new Missing Link Optimus Prime the other day and people are posting "I'll wait for the KO" in the comments of the video. Just disgusting behaviour imo. The designers work really hard on these figures and they deserve more respect. 

Steering back on topic, I'm not nearly as picky as others on here so I'm just happy this thing exists and I'll finally have a buddy for my YF-19 on the shelf! No, it's not perfect, but it's close enough for me and I can't wait to get it.

I'm a longtime on/off collector of Transformers as well, and you're right, that community is something else.  The quality of Transformers has nosedived over time, and I'm typically stunned(?) by what Transformers fans will embrace in terms of quality, design, and QC.  You sound like a kindred spirit: I became a neuroscientist in part because of my fascination with Transformers, Macross, the man-machine interface, etc. from an early age.  [Full disclosure, I left neuro when I realized I couldn't live (or even date) on a post-doc's salary.  Proud to say I'm much happier now that I've moved into pharma.]

[Lolicon]

On 8/10/2023 at 4:42 PM, Raptor One said:

Why is the option that we either get a toy that perfectly represents the lineart in all three modes, or we accept anything they give us? Is there no room for hope for a reasonable balance? 

The problem isn't that it doesn't look perfect in both modes, the problem is that Bandai has made seemingly unnecessary changes to the lineart that make every mode look worse. Now maybe they made those changes for reasons of sturdiness or longevity, but we can't really know that until the toy is out.

Either way, it's not very productive to discussion to berate people for complaining and not being grateful enough. If you're happy with the design then just say that. No need to imply others are bad people for discussing their perceived issues with a product they would otherwise be interested in/excited for.

Yep.

I'm showing my gratefulness to Bandai's efforts in the only way that actually matters to Bandai: by forking over a bunch of my money for one.

[VF-1A Cannon Fodder]

Complain and buy anyway…rinse, repeat 

[M'Kyuun]

On 8/15/2023 at 7:44 PM, VF-1A Cannon Fodder said:

Complain and buy anyway…rinse, repeat 

Well, let's be honest; there aren't a lot of options when it comes to Macross toys. Either you accept what's proffered, warts and all, or you pass with the likelihood that another toy of a particular valk may not come about for another decade, if that. We're spoiled in the Transformers fandom largely in part because of third party makers providing numerous options beyond official releases, but we don't really have that luxury in Macross. I wish, but we don't. With a dearth of options, is it any wonder that, despite the complaints, many of us still buy what's on offer? 

I wonder if it's a matter of Big West's not wanting to spread the license to too many companies, or that no other companies have an interest in producing Macross toys. Or between Arcadia and Bandai, they've agreed to lock the license between them. IDK, but I'd be down with companies like Sentinel, Takara, or 3Ps like MMC or Fans Toys doling out some Macross goodness. There are still so many cool valk designs that need to be realized in toy form that may never see fruition, and, in such a niche franchise, that's sadder to me than a realized toy with a few flaws.

[Mog]

Well if you want a VF-1, there’s always options out there.

But the rarer birds (like the -21 or the VF-17D) just don’t have that sort of coverage or options.

It’d be a big risk, but I wouldn’t mind another company taking a shot at the -21, just to show Bandai up.

[MKT]

Arcadia still the best chance for another attempt at YF-21 I guess. But they have been very conservative with releases, and we seem to get only 1 new mold every 3-4 years. At this point, after the VF-5000, I rather they move on completely to something else in the valk catalogue that have never been released before rather than re-doing the YF-21. 

[Raikkonen]

On 8/16/2023 at 5:44 AM, VF-1A Cannon Fodder said:

Complain and buy anyway…rinse, repeat 

It's always been like with all collectables. 

The addiction to click buy and then waiting for the doorbell to ring surpasses all accuracy needs. 

[DownIsUp]

On 8/18/2023 at 3:01 AM, MKT said:

Arcadia still the best chance for another attempt at YF-21 I guess. But they have been very conservative with releases, and we seem to get only 1 new mold every 3-4 years. At this point, after the VF-5000, I rather they move on completely to something else in the valk catalogue that have never been released before rather than re-doing the YF-21. 

Yeah I agree. I certainly wouldn't mind a re-release of the old Yf-21 and Vf-22 molds, but I'd rather see them move on to new valks instead of spending a lot of time and money developing a 2.0 mold for the -21. Although to be fair, aside from the Varauta mecha there really isn't a lot left to cover aside from variants and paint schemes. Unless Arcadia decides to dip their toes into the Frontier Era and onward, but that seems incredibly unlikely, what with Bandai's undisputed hold on the license so far.

[M'Kyuun]

19 hours ago, DownIsUp said:

Yeah I agree. I certainly wouldn't mind a re-release of the old Yf-21 and Vf-22 molds, but I'd rather see them move on to new valks instead of spending a lot of time and money developing a 2.0 mold for the -21. Although to be fair, aside from the Varauta mecha there really isn't a lot left to cover aside from variants and paint schemes. Unless Arcadia decides to dip their toes into the Frontier Era and onward, but that seems incredibly unlikely, what with Bandai's undisputed hold on the license so far.

I can understand wanting to move on, but the niggles I have with the Yamato YF-21 were such that I don't even display it anymore, and with two beautiful YF-19s on the shelf without Isamu's friend and rival standing by, I'd very much like to see one or both companies put out a YF-21 with better battroid proportions than the old Yamato.

So far as other valks needing toys, the VF-9 Cutlass, the Variable Glaug, and the VF-14 Vampire top my list, as well as a VF-5000B in the Macross Plus game color scheme. The teal, yellow and white of the VF-5000G is utterly repugnant. 🤢

These colors, though, accentuate the beauty of the valk's design in both modes- just lovely. I hope Arcadia releases it.

Edited August 23, 2023 by M'Kyuun

[twich]

2 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I can understand wanting to move on, but the niggles I have with the Yamato YF-21 were such that I don't even display it anymore, and with two beautiful YF-19s on the shelf without Isamu's friend and rival standing by, I'd very much like to see one or both companies put out a YF-21 with better battroid proportions than the old Yamato.

So far as other valks needing toys, the VF-9 Cutlass, the Variable Glaug, and the VF-14 Vampire top my list, as well as a VF-5000B in the Macross Plus game color scheme. The teal, yellow and white of the VF-5000G is utterly repugnant. 🤢

These colors, though, accentuate the beauty of the valk's design in both modes- just lovely. I hope Arcadia releases it.

I’m right there with you! I would love to see these released! I would also like for them to release some other designs from Macross 7, like the Varuna Variable Fighters! How massive would a 1/60 FBz-99G be?

Twich

[DownIsUp]

1 minute ago, twich said:

I’m right there with you! I would love to see these released! I would also like for them to release some other designs from Macross 7, like the Varuna Variable Fighters! How massive would a 1/60 FBz-99G be?

Twich

Oh man, that thing would be over a foot tall at least considering that a 1/60 Nu Gundam is around 14 inches and the Saubergeran is about the same height give or take about half a meter

[M'Kyuun]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:38 AM, twich said:

I’m right there with you! I would love to see these released! I would also like for them to release some other designs from Macross 7, like the Varuna Variable Fighters! How massive would a 1/60 FBz-99G be?

Twich

 

On 8/23/2023 at 11:46 AM, DownIsUp said:

Oh man, that thing would be over a foot tall at least considering that a 1/60 Nu Gundam is around 14 inches and the Saubergeran is about the same height give or take about half a meter

For sure it'd be sizeable. That said, I'm not crazy about the design; it's downright lazy compared to the majority of Kawamori's other variable designs where he does an admirable job of integrating the bot bits seamlessly into the vehicle mode such that, unless you know, you won't know it transforms. I love that he chose to make a valk version of the B-2 Spirit, but the execution leaves me feeling quite underwhelmed. Don Figueroa's flying wing Megatron design, and Hasbro's subsequent toy, was better executed, which is the polar opposite of what I expect from Kawamori-san and Hasbro, whose track record with aircraft, especially jets, is abysmal at best. However, this stands as one of their better efforts:

 Don Figueroa's art

 Hasbro's figure

As opposed to this, with its obvious legs just hanging out back. Def a step down in design quality from stuff like the VF-1, YF-19, VB-6 and even the Variable Glaug.

[Raikkonen]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:48 PM, M'Kyuun said:

These colors, though, accentuate the beauty of the valk's design in both modes- just lovely. I hope Arcadia releases it.

I'm sure they will. Molds are expensive and need to be milked. 

12 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

As opposed to this, with its obvious legs just hanging out back. Def a step down in design quality from stuff like the VF-1, YF-19, VB-6 and even the Variable Glaug.

Yeah, this really looks a early concept he just quickly played with. Very far from being functionality of his other works. 

[M'Kyuun]

20 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

I'm sure they will. Molds are expensive and need to be milked. 

True, but not if too many fans skip it in hopes of a later Macross Plus game B series color scheme. Personally, I think they should have led with the 5000B and then moved on to the G, as I think it's generally more broadly appealing than the teal, white, and yellow. However, I think the mold itself looks really good- definitely a want for the shelf. I may just suck it up and get the G if only to help sales with the hopes of a later M+ B release. I'm trying to convince myself of its uniqueness amidst the majority of mostly white valks in my collection. A little diversity is good, even if I find it a little cringeworthy.

20 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

Yeah, this really looks a early concept he just quickly played with. Very far from being functionality of his other works. 

Unfortunately, this is the final model. Kawamori is known for revisiting certain designs, like the Destroid Monster or the Glaug, not to mention umpteen variants of the VF-1 and VF-25 and their associated armor & booster packs. This is definitely one that could stand some refinement, if only to better integrate those legs into the airframe. I'd love to see it and the VA-3 Invader revisited to refine their looks. The VA-3 is an interesting and unique valk, but my goodness is it ugly, especially that poor battroid mode. My heart breaks for it.💔

 

[DownIsUp]

3 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

True, but not if too many fans skip it in hopes of a later Macross Plus game B series color scheme. Personally, I think they should have led with the 5000B and then moved on to the G, as I think it's generally more broadly appealing than the teal, white, and yellow.

Yeah that is the caveat of waiting for a more desired deco, if nobody buys the first deco no more will get produced. Although I will say given how popular Macross 7 is I would say it's probably not as niche as the game deco would be

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, DownIsUp said:

Yeah that is the caveat of waiting for a more desired deco, if nobody buys the first deco no more will get produced. Although I will say given how popular Macross 7 is I would say it's probably not as niche as the game deco would be

Um, my perception has always been that M7 wasn't very popular within the whole of the franchise. The valk designs, like the VF-19, VF-22 and VF-17, however, seem to have risen above the general disdain I've perceived over the years towards the animation. FWIW, I thought M7 was ok, although I didn't care for Basara all that much, and I wasn't crazy about the domestic separation between Max and Milia, two characters who were essentially made for each other. Gamlin was ok. Ray was probably my favorite character, along with Mylene, Max and Milia. Of the Protodevlin, only Sivil stood out to me as an interesting or memorable villain. Not the best series, especially when compared with the original SDF:M, Macross Plus, Frontier, and Zero. Delta and M7 I kinda lump together as the 'lessers' of the franchise. 😄

[jenius]

Whoa... your perception is pretty far off base. M7 may be the second most popular Macross of all time. I hope Frontier has beat it out at this point but... yeah... M7 was huge for Macross. Obviously it didn't land well with Western young adult audiences ready for a gritty sequel to Macross but it blew up in Japan. 

[DownIsUp]

28 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Um, my perception has always been that M7 wasn't very popular within the whole of the franchise. The valk designs, like the VF-19, VF-22 and VF-17, however, seem to have risen above the general disdain I've perceived over the years towards the animation. FWIW, I thought M7 was ok, although I didn't care for Basara all that much, and I wasn't crazy about the domestic separation between Max and Milia, two characters who were essentially made for each other. Gamlin was ok. Ray was probably my favorite character, along with Mylene, Max and Milia. Of the Protodevlin, only Sivil stood out to me as an interesting or memorable villain. Not the best series, especially when compared with the original SDF:M, Macross Plus, Frontier, and Zero. Delta and M7 I kinda lump together as the 'lessers' of the franchise. 😄

Yeah like Jenius just said, the idea that it's not well liked is a purely western conception. Back in Japan, the main market for these shows and toys of course, this is maybe the most influential show in the franchise outside of SDF for starting it. It took Frontier to dethrone it for a lot of fans, and that show was lightning in a bottle. It's the grittier series that tend to fly under the radar, which is pretty much the inverse of how a lot of us perceive the franchise.

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

Macross 7 also released almost a year ahead of Macross Plus.

[Graham]

25 minutes ago, PsYcHoDyNaMiX said:

Macross 7 also released almost a year ahead of Macross Plus.

Nope.

First episode of Macross Plus OVA released August 1994.

First episode of Macross 7 TV series released  October 1994.

 

[Raikkonen]

8 hours ago, jenius said:

Whoa... your perception is pretty far off base. M7 may be the second most popular Macross of all time. I hope Frontier has beat it out at this point but... yeah... M7 was huge for Macross. Obviously it didn't land well with Western young adult audiences ready for a gritty sequel to Macross but it blew up in Japan. 

There certainly was something in the water in Japan during that time 🤣

[Raikkonen]

6 hours ago, Graham said:

Nope.

First episode of Macross Plus OVA released August 1994.

First episode of Macross 7 TV series released  October 1994.

 

Interesting.

Two linked series so close together of quite diverse styles. 

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

6 hours ago, Graham said:

Nope.

First episode of Macross Plus OVA released August 1994.

First episode of Macross 7 TV series released  October 1994.

 

ahh you're right! I stand corrected... I knew they were close and googled it. I guess I shouldve dug a little deeper than google's immediate results. 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by PsYcHoDyNaMiX

[MKT]

21 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

True, but not if too many fans skip it in hopes of a later Macross Plus game B series color scheme. Personally, I think they should have led with the 5000B and then moved on to the G, as I think it's generally more broadly appealing than the teal, white, and yellow. However, I think the mold itself looks really good- definitely a want for the shelf. I may just suck it up and get the G if only to help sales with the hopes of a later M+ B release. I'm trying to convince myself of its uniqueness amidst the majority of mostly white valks in my collection. A little diversity is good, even if I find it a little cringeworthy.

Arcadia has re-issued the YF-19 for the umpteenth time, so the mold should have paid for itself quite few times over by now. Yet they are not announcing the VF-19A from the game, which looks like an easy repaint. VF-19A is of course more obscure and perhaps the scheme isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't mind if they do it as a smaller run web exclusive. 

[Raikkonen]

13 minutes ago, MKT said:

Arcadia has re-issued the YF-19 for the umpteenth time, so the mold should have paid for itself quite few times over by now. Yet they are not announcing the VF-19A from the game, which looks like an easy repaint. VF-19A is of course more obscure and perhaps the scheme isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't mind if they do it as a smaller run web exclusive. 

I'd take the VF-19A scheme 100 times over the odd beige of the YF-19. 

Same with the VF-22 Max or moon team over the YF-21.

Love Macross plus, but the colour schemes never won me. 

[snakerbot]

1 hour ago, MKT said:

Arcadia has re-issued the YF-19 for the umpteenth time, so the mold should have paid for itself quite few times over by now. Yet they are not announcing the VF-19A from the game, which looks like an easy repaint.

1 hour ago, Raikkonen said:

I'd take the VF-19A scheme 100 times over the odd beige of the YF-19.

Personally, give me Aisha Blanchette's pink VF-19E.

[M'Kyuun]

17 hours ago, jenius said:

Whoa... your perception is pretty far off base. M7 may be the second most popular Macross of all time. I hope Frontier has beat it out at this point but... yeah... M7 was huge for Macross. Obviously it didn't land well with Western young adult audiences ready for a gritty sequel to Macross but it blew up in Japan. 

So, I stand mostly humbly corrected. I speak, of course, from a Western POV, having not returned to Japan, or Okinawa more specifically, since the early 90s predating both Plus and 7. My entire experience with both is colored by my isolation from Japanese society and culture, not to mention my lack of research before speaking my perceptions. Apologies aplenty.

 

16 hours ago, DownIsUp said:

Yeah like Jenius just said, the idea that it's not well liked is a purely western conception. Back in Japan, the main market for these shows and toys of course, this is maybe the most influential show in the franchise outside of SDF for starting it. It took Frontier to dethrone it for a lot of fans, and that show was lightning in a bottle. It's the grittier series that tend to fly under the radar, which is pretty much the inverse of how a lot of us perceive the franchise.

Again, I own my mistaken perception. I love Plus; it was in a significant way my doorway to both Macross and a broader appreciation of anime in the mid-90s. It also resonates with me due to its parallels to the real-world competition several years before of the YF-22 and YF-23, of which I've oft opined that the Air Force chose the wrong plane. More than that, though, the grittiness, the sci-fi elements, and the maturity of M+'s various story elements have always held a fascination for me. Plus remains one of if not my favorite anime to this day, so powerfully does it speak to me.

8 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

There certainly was something in the water in Japan during that time 🤣

One wonders, or at least I do, how Seven could possibly be more popular than either the original SDF:M or Plus, but apparently their opinions are colored by different factors than those in the West. As far as questionable water goes, Fukushima Daiichi was years down the road, so we can't blame radiated seafood. 😄 Again, different cultures with different standards and influences.

15 hours ago, Graham said:

Nope.

First episode of Macross Plus OVA released August 1994.

First episode of Macross 7 TV series released  October 1994.

 

I never realized how closely the two series released, but given the dates on the lineart in Kawamori's Macross Design Works, and given the evolutionary nature of the M+ designs from Plus to Seven, I always assumed that Plus was first followed by Seven. I first watched M+ back in '95 and didn't see M7 until about a year or so ago, but the difference in tone and maturity are jarring for two such closely related series.

4 hours ago, MKT said:

Arcadia has re-issued the YF-19 for the umpteenth time, so the mold should have paid for itself quite few times over by now. Yet they are not announcing the VF-19A from the game, which looks like an easy repaint. VF-19A is of course more obscure and perhaps the scheme isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't mind if they do it as a smaller run web exclusive. 

I, too, like the VF-19A paint scheme. If they did release it, though, I'm not sure if I'd get it, as Arcadia's prices are pretty high these days, and my space is really limited. It'd be one of those deals where I stare at it a lot and finally make a decision.

4 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

Love Macross plus, but the colour schemes never won me. 

Just the opposite; I love 'em, especially the 19.

[jenius]

I love the Ravens paint scheme and I really don't understand why Arcadia isn't doing small limited runs of other schemes when they do a run of a more popular toy. Maybe the costs of paint set-up are too high to warrant a 100 run production of something? KitzConcept seems to be having fun doing that. Even if they did 100 Ravens at the same time as the standard scheme, that's not a ton of inventory to have to stash away for a few months to separate out the releases. 

[M'Kyuun]

7 minutes ago, jenius said:

I love the Ravens paint scheme and I really don't understand why Arcadia isn't doing small limited runs of other schemes when they do a run of a more popular toy. Maybe the costs of paint set-up are too high to warrant a 100 run production of something? KitzConcept seems to be having fun doing that. Even if they did 100 Ravens at the same time as the standard scheme, that's not a ton of inventory to have to stash away for a few months to separate out the releases. 

One can hope. As I said, I really like it, too, and I'd have to give some thought to committing the ducats, but it sure is a purdy bird that would look reeeaaaallllly nice somewhere in my house. 😁

[Reïvaj]

Ouch!!! I thought there were some news about the DX YF-21!!! 🤦‍♂️😝

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, jenius said:

I love the Ravens paint scheme and I really don't understand why Arcadia isn't doing small limited runs of other schemes when they do a run of a more popular toy. Maybe the costs of paint set-up are too high to warrant a 100 run production of something? KitzConcept seems to be having fun doing that. Even if they did 100 Ravens at the same time as the standard scheme, that's not a ton of inventory to have to stash away for a few months to separate out the releases. 

Didn't Yamato pretty much do that? Maybe Yamato went overboard, but geez Louise they sure spoiled us. 

[Mog]

^^Not in the 1/60 scale.

[MKT]

New pics via Stone Cheung on FB, examining some aspects of the mold:

Edit: Updated with better scans from Gokin.it

Spoiler

Earlier scans from Stone Cheung:

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by MKT