Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[sqidd]

16 minutes ago, monkeyface said:

I’m getting it regardless but nothing is worse than getting this close to perfection and then just overlooking small aesthetic details that add up to make a big difference. 

 

There are a million factors in production that we can't see. Some of those factors determine the final product. Even it's shape. My business is short run, high dollar "Gucci" go fast car parts. Even though I'm in the top tier of price I still have to "dumb" product down for production considerations. I'm never able to design something that is exactly how I want it.

[Mog]

As a 3-mode figure, I can see reasons for design compromises.

Heck, you can see it in the Yamato version favoring a skinny fighter profile, but having to give up beefier legs in battroid.

But some design choices on the Bandai have me going:  and asking “How is this an improvement?”

[monkeyface]

I agree there will always be compromises.  But If I had to narrow it down the most offensive parts to me are the visible hinge on the rear stabilizers, the shape of the belly doors, the overly fat ankles and narrow nose cone.  All these 'seem' like things that shouldnt interfere with the engineering.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by monkeyface
grammar

[Mommar]

1 hour ago, sqidd said:

There are a million factors in production that we can't see. Some of those factors determine the final product. Even it's shape. My business is short run, high dollar "Gucci" go fast car parts. Even though I'm in the top tier of price I still have to "dumb" product down for production considerations. I'm never able to design something that is exactly how I want it.

While all of that is true Bandai are known for missing details like this.  And not necessarily minute ones either.  The nose cone is pretty obvious.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Mommar

[sqidd]

21 minutes ago, Mommar said:

While all of that is true Bandai are known for missing details like this.  And not necessarily minute ones either.  The nose cone is pretty obvious.

 

1 hour ago, monkeyface said:

I agree there will always be compromises.  But If I had to narrow it down the most offensive parts to me are the visible hinge on the rear stabilizers, the shape of the belly doors, the overly fat ankles and narrow nose cone.  All these 'seem' like things that shouldnt interfere with the engineering.  

I'm not attempting to make a case for them. Only pointing out that intentions/desires don't always align with what the reality of production will bear. I don't manufacture anything in plastic so I have no idea what you can and can't pull off as far as shapes goes. The're are going to be limits. When working in metal just because you can draw it, doesn't mean you can actually machine it. Then there are the tooling/production costs. More complicated = more $$$. I would bet money that Bandai could do more anime/fan accurate examples if they cost $500.

[frankell05]

only things that bugs me are the yellow line markings on the legs , arms and feet.  I think they don't compliment the original design and just distract from it. If they removed those, i would be super happy, if not I'll see if I can do it myself.  i look at it as someones design attempt and i appreciate it for that. To me it seems like the best the best proportioned 1/60 yf-21 i have seen so far. Gud nuff fo me.

[Powered Convoy]

I want one. 

[seti88]

7 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Don't believe there's any question about it at all.  The only way those legs are going to be able to fit in there is if the entire belly opens up.  Exactly how they open is up for grabs, but folding outward seems the most likely option, since they look connected to the big plates alongside the exhaust ducts.

This pic below was tripping me up, esp the circle area where it seems that under the lower belly plate exists another panel. Logically this cannot be the leg, as that  seems to be part fuselage?

There is so much going on under there, i agree the logical choice would be to have fold out plates.

6 hours ago, borgified said:

It actually reminds me of the Ferengi Alliance from Star Trek 

 

[eXis10z]

4 hours ago, monkeyface said:

I’m getting it regardless but nothing is worse than getting this close to perfection and then just overlooking small aesthetic details that add up to make a big difference. 

 

Never compromise. It's not perfect. Don't get it.

[anime52k8]

On 10/28/2019 at 12:09 PM, Knight26 said:

As much as I love the Yf-21/VF-22 this does illustrate a serious issue I have with it, the engine ducting.  It really implies that the 21/22 used a radically different engine tech then every other VF to that point, and beyond.  I know that the answer is liberal usage of anime magic in the design, but I just don't see room enough in there for traditional turbine styled engines.  It makes me think that the 21/22 uses something more akin to a Fusion rocket.  The bulged fronts of the engine nacelles would be the fusion bulbs, pumping plasma through ducts in the rear nacelle, "cooling" it along the way to pull out any radiation, before ducting them out the rear turbines.  Afterburning would basically involve retracting the internal baffles to allow the raw plasma out the rear exhaust.  The intake in the front would then serve to power the lifting ducts, as well as provide cooling air in atmosphere, which would be heated by the fusion bulb much like  ramjet to also add thrust.  So, I guess you might classify the 21/22's engines as Fusion Ramjets.

nope, just standard turbines with ducting on either end.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I was so disappointed at Yamato's 21 when it came out. The 21 is my favorite VF and yet I couldn't get over the tiny feet and the lower hips. Fighter was great, but I'm more of a battroid guy (I know I'm not in the majority there), so I skipped it altogether and prepared myself mentally for the long wait, because I knew there was going to be a better version eventually. This is perfect for me. I know we're all used to smaller thrusters, but if they mean more room for bigger feet and legs stowage, I'm in. Besides they make fighter mode look more powerful IMO and it doesn't look any less sleek to my eyes. If Kawamori is still making notes for the design team, then the most obvious aesthetic change should be the short bellyplates, which are easy to tweak without compromising the whole thing, so I'm happy there. 

Edit: I never cared much for Delta, but I dig the Immelman scheme MUCH more than the Gamlin and M&M's, so go ahead and milk that mold Bandai!

Edited October 30, 2019 by Lonely Soldier Boy

[davidwhangchoi]

same, i skipped all the 21's 22's bc i didn't like battroid and Gerwalk. was waiting for an Arcadia redesign but this DX is hope.

I hope it does it justice. 

We need a full set pack with micro missiles, fold booster and garbage debris to hide in.   

 

[Actar]

In terms of non-aesthetic changes, I'm looking for ratchets in the legs and a much-improved head/neck articulation. I really hope the hinge/friction joints are strong enough this time. My Yamato's wings keep dipping. 

[TrickyCustomer]

I think articulation will be one major factor with the new design. They are going all out on markings too. Personally I don't mind either of these "improvements" over the yamato version. They gave the yf-19 plenty of extras like the arm cannon, fold booster, the "hadouken" fist effect and plenty of missiles. I'm curious to see what the stand out feature will be with the 21 in terms of accessories. Either way I have faith bandai will deliver like they did with the yf-19. 

[seti88]

3 hours ago, davidwhangchoi said:

same, i skipped all the 21's 22's bc i didn't like battroid and Gerwalk. was waiting for an Arcadia redesign but this DX is hope.

I hope it does it justice. 

We need a full set pack with micro missiles, fold booster and garbage debris to hide in.   

 

Yes! P-bandai YF-21 oscar version! 

sorry couldnt resist...

Spoiler

 

resemblance is uncanny!

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by seti88

[jeniusornome]

@seti88 wasn’t prepared for the unibrow. Coffee all over my phone. Can I give more than one like?

[Marcion]

I will pass this bandai yf21, overate marking on whole plane, in animation just have simple marking and clean, if only arcadia can do it.

[dur]

I know the camera angle is contributing a lot to this, but I get the feeling that the fighter mode is a creepy creeper old man in a trench coat getting ready to flash me.  It's just... the paneling looks like its trying to hide something instead of being very integrated, if that makes sense.  Again, hoping its just the angle and/or transformation error/proto tolerances.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

The underbelly panels are definitely not sitting flush, but that's to be expected from a prototype in a hobby show. I'm more worried that they'd over-engineered the whole area to the point of looking weird or being troublesome. Still, I believe the final version is a long way off.

[Berkut]

15 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

nope, just standard turbines with ducting on either end.

Sorta off topic but related, but where exactly was the micro missiles launched out from on the YF-21?

[Mog]

I always assumed Omega 1 launched the missiles from the Fast Packs on its arms. 

The non-FP set-up is loaded with guns.  But really no spots for missiles.

[Berkut]

9 minutes ago, Mog said:

I always assumed Omega 1 launched the missiles from the Fast Packs on its arms. 

The non-FP set-up is loaded with guns.  But really no spots for missiles.

Ahh that does makes sense. Thats right in the OVA it only shot missiles with its fast packs.

[Shizuka the Cat]

1 hour ago, Berkut said:

Sorta off topic but related, but where exactly was the micro missiles launched out from on the YF-21?

So, there are 4 micro-missile launchers on the top of the YF-21, circled in red in the pictures below:

 

Furthermore, there appear to be 6 more micro-missile launchers... possibly  more, at least on the YF-21 with Fast Packs... denoted by red arrows.

My guess is tthat all 6 micro-missiles are launched from the belly armor plates...

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Shizuka the Cat

[Lolicon]

Good eye @Shizuka the Cat, though those are the YF-19 leg armors pictured (the YF-21 only has the belly armor, but same principle). I figured the 19/21 armors are mostly missile containers since they're atmosphere-capable and don't appear to add much in the way of thrust.

[HardlyNever]

Good Ol' MMM says it has 4 micro missile launchers standard, where @Shizuka the Cat highlighted.  

The stuff about the FAST packs is a little hard to parse, but what I'm understanding is that they are saying there are 4 hardpoints to mount the four fast packs. which have more missiles, but doesn't say exactly how many ports:

"all-environment FAST Pack weapon packs with micro-missiles (mounted on arm/tail and hip/underside panels) each capable of equipping 4,000 kg."

 

[Shizuka the Cat]

5 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Good eye @Shizuka the Cat, though those are the YF-19 leg armors pictured (the YF-21 only has the belly armor, but same principle). I figured the 19/21 armors are mostly missile containers since they're atmosphere-capable and don't appear to add much in the way of thrust.

Good catch. Corrected  my post 

[Lolicon]

13 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

Good Ol' MMM says it has 4 micro missile launchers standard, where @Shizuka the Cat highlighted.  

The stuff about the FAST packs is a little hard to parse, but what I'm understanding is that they are saying there are 4 hardpoints to mount the four fast packs. which have more missiles, but doesn't say exactly how many ports:

"all-environment FAST Pack weapon packs with micro-missiles (mounted on arm/tail and hip/underside panels) each capable of equipping 4,000 kg."

Also says they contain no thrusters or propellant. So yeah they're just missile pods, essentially.

(If they contain no fuel or propellant, shouldn't the F in FAST be dropped?)

[Berkut]

23 minutes ago, Shizuka the Cat said:

Good catch. Corrected  my post 

 

11 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Also says they contain no thrusters or propellant. So yeah they're just missile pods, essentially.

(If they contain no fuel or propellant, shouldn't the F in FAST be dropped?)

Thank you so much both of you guys! I appreciate the info, it was something I really wondered for a while. 

[TrickyCustomer]

According to the macross mecha manual yf-21 page

• Bombs & Missiles:
• 4 x internal Bifors BML-02S YF-21-exclusive all-environment rapid-fire micro-missile launchers featuring exit ports from forward dorsal section to the sides of the engine nacelles (mounted in central dorsal section).
  Optional Armament:
• 4 x hard point weapon stations for all-environment FAST Pack weapon packs with micro-missiles (mounted on arm/tail and hip/underside panels) each capable of equipping 4,000 kg.

[Shizuka the Cat]

7 minutes ago, TrickyCustomer said:

According to the macross mecha manual yf-21 page

• 4 x hard point weapon stations for all-environment FAST Pack weapon packs with micro-missiles (mounted on arm/tail and hip/underside panels) each capable of equipping 4,000 kg.

Don't those 4 hard points for Fast Packs refer to attaching the 2 belly plate armors and the 2 small tail armors?

[TrickyCustomer]

2 minutes ago, Shizuka the Cat said:

Don't those 4 hard points for Fast Packs refer to attaching the 2 belly plate armors and the 2 small tail armors?

I would assume so. 

[davidwhangchoi]

17 hours ago, seti88 said:

Yes! P-bandai YF-21 oscar version! 

sorry couldnt resist...

  Hide contents

 

resemblance is uncanny!

 

Holy!

hahaha

[Hikaru1234567890]

So when do preorders slate to be opening?

[Berkut]

37 minutes ago, Hikaru1234567890 said:

So when do preorders slate to be opening?

Well likely next year around Fall as my guess.

[505thAirborne]

1 hour ago, Hikaru1234567890 said:

So when do preorders slate to be opening?

When you feel the Internet Blowing Up, the ground shaking and see a guy with an Anime shirt on running down the street screaming "Yes! Yes!, Oh God Yes!!!" Then you'll know exactly when the Pre-orders are going to happen!