Yellowing - How To Prevent?

[sqidd]

As some of you now I just got back into this after almost a decade off. I still retained a Yamato 1/60 YF-19 from a decade or so ago. It has always been on display in a wooden bookcase. No protection from dust (I don't have much dust). It's never seen direct and possibly reflected sunlight. My office has northern exposure and there are trees in front of the window. Smoke free and temp controlled. The YF-19 is quite yellow. What are precautions if any that I can take with my new collection so I don't have 50 yellow valks in 10yrs?

Thanks!

[HardlyNever]

Short answer: no one really knows for sure, but there are some things you can try (see that thread).

[sqidd]

1 minute ago, HardlyNever said:

Short answer: no one really knows for sure, but there are some things you can try (see that thread).

Apparently my search skills suck.

Thanks!

[tekering]

2 hours ago, sqidd said:

It's never seen direct and possibly reflected sunlight. My office has northern exposure and there are trees in front of the window.

I see three words that illustrate your problem: "window," "sunlight," and "exposure."

I used to have a problem with toys turning yellow, but I've completely eliminated the problem over the past two decades by eliminating sunlight altogether.  Windows are completely blacked out and boarded up before anything gets put on display in my toy rooms, and the only sources of light are artificial.

Remember, our Valkyries are vampires, and sunlight will kill them.  It's that simple.

[Foblander]

Could it also be bad air circulation / heat? Some people have left their Valks in boxes and discover years later they've yellowed. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Foblander

[sqidd]

4 hours ago, tekering said:

I see three words that illustrate your problem: "window," "sunlight," and "exposure."

I used to have a problem with toys turning yellow, but I've completely eliminated the problem over the past two decades by eliminating sunlight altogether.  Windows are completely blacked out and boarded up before anything gets put on display in my toy rooms, and the only sources of light are artificial.

Remember, our Valkyries are vampires, and sunlight will kill them.  It's that simple.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I'm kind of a Vampire myself. I drive my wife nuts keeping the house like a dungeon. I only have one window in my office. And I literally never look out of it (I can't see past my monitors). Any suggestions on how to black the window out without it looking like an abandoned building? I could get dark window tint. But that is just tint. Maybe go by the sticker shop and get some black sticker material? There has to be a less expensive solution. Thoughts?

 

Thanks

[sqidd]

1 hour ago, Foblander said:

Could it also be bad air circulation / heat? Some people have left their Valks in boxes and discover years later they've yellowed. 

Air moves through here pretty good. It's got two registers and it's own air return. It's certainly never stagnant, hit or stuffy and there is a quite a bit of electronics in here.

I'm not taking any chances. But I wonder how much of that 19 yellowing is due to the plastic that was used. The 35ish year old Gakken Ride Armor that was right next to it is minty.

[Slave IV]

5 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I'm kind of a Vampire myself. I drive my wife nuts keeping the house like a dungeon. I only have one window in my office. And I literally never look out of it (I can't see past my monitors). Any suggestions on how to black the window out without it looking like an abandoned building? I could get dark window tint. But that is just tint. Maybe go by the sticker shop and get some black sticker material? There has to be a less expensive solution. Thoughts?

 

Thanks

If you get a good quality tint, those will block out 99.99% of the harmful UV rays. Done. These days, you want the ceramic stuff.

[theraiden]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UV-Protectant-Spray-Restore-Surfaces/dp/B01GOV93M4   Would something like this prevent yellowing?

[Bobby]

This has been mentioned in other threads over the years but this is just a reminder that florescent lights are BAD for white and clear plastics. Here's an example with identical blister packs for some Yukikaze Mave Fighters, one stored in a room with 48" long 5000K Daylight LEDs (L) and the other stored in a room with conventional 4ft florescent bulbs (R) and the discoloration in the plastic is very noticeable.

[DewPoint]

Not surprising as many already know that fluorescent bulbs are just UV bulbs with a white phosphor coating in it.  Any break or imperfection in the coating will leak UV out.  I've read that CFL are especially bad in this regard.

[Lolicon]

I switched to all LED light bulbs in my home years ago. 

[Sanity is Optional]

I cannot recommend daylight spectrum LEDs enough. All your figures will look better, and no yellowing.

[sqidd]

Just now, Sanity is Optional said:

I cannot recommend daylight spectrum LEDs enough. All your figures will look better, and no yellowing.

Do you know if they trigger vitamin D production?

[BlueMax]

9 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

I cannot recommend daylight spectrum LEDs enough. All your figures will look better, and no yellowing.

4000K or 6500K?

[Sanity is Optional]

16 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Do you know if they trigger vitamin D production?

No idea.

 

8 minutes ago, BlueMax said:

4000K or 6500K?

I believe the typical range is 5000K-6500K for Daylight. 4000K would be at the top end of Bright White/Cool White.

 

[edit] After looking, it appears there are some LEDs that will produce Vitamin D. They do so by emitting in the UV band. So avoid those.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Sanity is Optional

[sqidd]

2 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

 

[edit] After looking, it appears there are some LEDs that will produce Vitamin D. They do so by emitting in the UV band. So avoid those.

I just looked that up too. Too bad. That would be a nice benefit. Natural production is always superior to supplementation.

Fun fact, there is a STRONG correlation between healthy vit D levels and resistance to COVID. Second would be vit C. So eat your supps kids!!!

[BlueMax]

Thanks. Time to replace my 2700K leds!

[Lolicon]

Unless you're living in a part of the world that spends months in darkness, you probably don't need to be getting vitamin D from your light bulbs. 

[Sanity is Optional]

14 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Unless you're living in a part of the world that spends months in darkness, you probably don't need to be getting vitamin D from your light bulbs. 

Or you're working from home, and haven't gone outside for a few weeks...

[sqidd]

13 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Unless you're living in a part of the world that spends months in darkness, you probably don't need to be getting vitamin D from your light bulbs. 

42% of Americans are vit D deficient.

[Lolicon]

9 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Or you're working from home, and haven't gone outside for a few weeks...

 

4 minutes ago, sqidd said:

42% of Americans are vit D deficient.

They need to go outside more. Or just eat better. The risk of yellowing to your toys isn't worth it!!!

[sqidd]

13 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

 

They need to go outside more. Or just eat better. The risk of yellowing to your toys isn't worth it!!!

Agreed. Or supplement.

[Slave IV]

8 hours ago, BlueMax said:

Thanks. Time to replace my 2700K leds!

Different color temps have their purpose. I’d keep the 2700k for places like the living room and bedrooms. 

[sqidd]

28 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

Different color temps have their purpose. I’d keep the 2700k for places like the living room and bedrooms. 

2700, 2701, whatever it takes.

Mr Mom joke. As someone who is super hands on, I love this bit. I have everyone around me saying it all the time.

There is a longer version of the scene which is worth watching.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by sqidd

[ErikElvis]

I have an original shuttle tydyrium  That sat in a warm dark room in the house for 10 years. It yellowed. Infuriated me.  
 

my display valks to get a splash of light on the displays but have not noticed any yellowing. 

[BlueMax]

1 hour ago, ErikElvis said:

I have an original shuttle tydyrium  That sat in a warm dark room in the house for 10 years. It yellowed. Infuriated me.  
 

my display valks to get a splash of light on the displays but have not noticed any yellowing. 

I have a room, totally non-ventilated, which is used to store all my valks and other stuff, from about 2011 onwards. Since then, more than 95% of the time, the room is not accessed and is is basically in darkness until the ligts are switched on. However, the room is constantly between 30 - 32 Deg Celsius (86-90 Deg F) and maybe even higher on warmer days. Humidity level is high, because I live in the tropics (I have since corrected this in the last couple of months to be more inline with ambient humidity), and is evident by instances of whitish mold growth on some of the boxes (most obvious on the TF masterpiece black boxes). There are 2 main results.

1. Toys that have basically seen very little or no display outside its original packaging and stayed in packaging for the duration of the 9 years. Very limited to zero handling by hand.

2. Toys that have seen substantial time outside (months to couple of years out out box, but out of direct sunlight, but exposed to flourescent light at night for up to 4-5 hours each night) and then either left in the dark exposed, or put into storage in ziplock bags and sealed. Also, most have been handled by bare skin pror to being put back in storage.

For toys under 1: There seems to be little to no yeallowing at all, when I pulled a couple out of storage just days ago to take pictures to facilitate selling (Yamato 1/48 VF-1A Max and Kakizaki) . To be clear, alot of MISB toys' condition are unable to be ascertained.

For toys under 2: Substantial yellowing, and for some, very serious yellowing. Regardless of whether they have been in ziplock bags or not. (Examples include: Yamato 1/48 Roy Focker and VF-1A Hikaru, All 1/60 VF-1 V1s, 1/60 Roy Focker VF-1 V2 and Bandai 1/55 CF,  

Interestingly, once those in group 2 were exposed to regular ambient light, after a couple of days, the yellowing subsided a little, not as bad, but still obvious. (intense exposure to sunlight for the severely yellowed items yielded good (up to 70% less yellowing), though with somewhat uneven results (some parts only yielded 20% or so)

Makes me wonder how many factors there were in play here simultaneously, and how much each contributes. Heat? Light? Prior exposure to visible/ invisible spectrum of light? Organic residue after being handled by bare hands? Moisture? Quality of plastics (some parts remained as white as ever)?

 

 

 

 

[Bobby]

^Good questions! I've even wondered if there's some degree of interaction that causes it with the variety of plastic bags out there (material, quality ...some with holes ...some air sealed), the foam trays (vs. clear blister packs), the plastic windows (sometimes) in presentation tray tops, and the occasional sheet of cardboard tray top itself ...lots of variables to consider for sure.

After reading your post I thought I'd to go check in storage and take a peak at my original 80's Bandai H.C.M. Series#20 1:72 Scale VF-1J that's been stored for years and years in its original packaging out of direct UV. The toy itself is wrapped inside a plastic bag, inserted in its original foam tray, with its original cardboard tray insert on top...and oh that bit of anxiety as you're opening it ...eager to see what color "white" once you lift the cardboard off 

Happy to say, it's still very white ...but then compare it to the infamous v1 VF-25 Alto which is packaged practically the exact same way which looks absolutely horrible!  So is the biggest determinant sunlight, or the plastic quality itself, or both? Seems like it's unfortunately somewhat "predetermined" with the different batches and qualities of plastic manufacturers can use, and yellowing may still occur despite all our precautionary efforts to prevent it (but still worth doing them for sure).

 

[slide]

9 hours ago, BlueMax said:

Makes me wonder how many factors there were in play here simultaneously, and how much each contributes. Heat? Light? Prior exposure to visible/ invisible spectrum of light? Organic residue after being handled by bare hands? Moisture? Quality of plastics (some parts remained as white as ever)?

every factor can play a part in the fascinating chemistry at play here.

The biggest factor is likely the Plastic's own chemical composition and quality of the mixture/moulding processes.

 

That said, most of humans are broadly unaware of what a chemical soup the atmosphere inside our homes really is... 

 

Do we have any chemists on the Forum?

I'd be very interested to see how some of the solutions that have been tried and tested on the forums stack up against any scientific knowledge on the subject.

Edited September 4, 2020 by slide

[BlueMax]

7 hours ago, slide said:

Do we have any chemists on the Forum?

I'd be very interested to see how some of the solutions that have been tried and tested on the forums stack up against any scientific knowledge on the subject.

Not a Chemist, but from a common sense point of view, what I can think of and what I am currently trying to do is minimise the risk factors at play.

All the risk factors, seem to have this in common: Exposure of bare plastic to: AIR, combined with heat, humidity, organic contaminations (oils, sweat, etc) and visible / invisible spectrum of electromagnetic radiation.

Except for visible light, i am attempting to eliminate or at least minimise the risk factors’ direct interaction with the bare plastic. I am currently sealing all new and opened Macross toys’ white or light coloured bare plastics with a top coat, specifically Gunze’s Mr Super Clear (semi gloss) and the UV cut version (flat).

Of course, we won’t know the outcome until a few years later... and even then, it might not be conclusive. I’m not setting this up as an experiment after all, more to protect my toys the best I can.

 

[MKT]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 5:07 PM, BlueMax said:

I have a room, totally non-ventilated, which is used to store all my valks and other stuff, from about 2011 onwards. Since then, more than 95% of the time, the room is not accessed and is is basically in darkness until the ligts are switched on. However, the room is constantly between 30 - 32 Deg Celsius (86-90 Deg F) and maybe even higher on warmer days. Humidity level is high, because I live in the tropics (I have since corrected this in the last couple of months to be more inline with ambient humidity), and is evident by instances of whitish mold growth on some of the boxes (most obvious on the TF masterpiece black boxes). There are 2 main results.

 

Hi BlueMax,

I've recently experienced something along this as well. My toy room is 99% dark, door closed at all times, and display cabinets dust-proofed. Recently, I've not been hanging out as much in the room, so humidity levels would be high which resulted in some of the MDF-based cabinets having very early signs of mildew growing out of them.

I wonder how did you deal with the humidity? More frequent AC turned-on? Use a dehumidifier? Use desiccant packs?

[ErikElvis]

I would like to know how my shuttle tydirium and b wing yellowed sitting in a dark room. And they’re gray plastic. 

[BlueMax]

4 hours ago, MKT said:

I wonder how did you deal with the humidity? More frequent AC turned-on? Use a dehumidifier? Use desiccant packs?

AC use would probably give the best results, but in my case, that room has no AC, so  desiccant packs/ hungry hippos (from Daiso) for me now, plus a hygrometer for measurement.

This is in addition to making sure I limit my time inside (previously I would spend lengthy periods inside trying to look for stuff, and that would result in me becoming very hot and sweaty, raising the temp and humidity levels. I made use of the Circuit Breaker period ( in effect a Soft covid lock down) to fully rearrange the room and offloaded loads of unwanted stuff. Now things are sorted properly and catalogued so I won’t have to spend unnecessary time going through stuff.

[MKT]

Hygrometer would be very useful.. thanks for the tip @BlueMax!

When doing up this space initially, I only wanted to keep sunlight & dust out. Never considered humidity would be at play too, because I've never seen it mentioned (or just plain overlooked) while browsing toy display discussions online.

[Bobby]

It is my understanding that is on the list of factors that affect our plastics/polymers: UV radiation/exposure to visible light, extreme temperatures, humidity, exposure to solvents (which cause polymers to fail over time), but when it comes to yellowing, UV light is usually the primary culprit.