PLAMAX 1/72 VF-1 Valkyrie

[Big s]

1 hour ago, VF-1A Grunt said:

It looks to me like there are knee joints, but what appears to be missing is the joint just below the intakes, which provides the articulation at the hips. If I can link to this image from the Macross Mecha Manual site, this test sample doesn’t seem to have a joint between the brown intakes and the rest of the legs. 

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1j-valkyrie/colorcode-vf1j.gif

I believe all previous Battroid models have been articulated at that spot. It’s a little unclear without going back to watch SDFM or DYRL whether the legs bend at that joint in Battroid mode (they definitely do in Gerwalk form), but I think there should be a more prominent seam there across the front of the “thigh.” 

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1j-valkyrie/vf-1j-battroid.gif

As you said, this is an early sample, so I’m not passing judgement, just observing.

There are a couple scenes in the original show where it did bend below the intake, but most of the time it is solid there and uses the hip joint where it’s attached to the nose area. I believe the old arii and imai and the little nichimo kits only had the hip joint for the non transforming kits. I have my Tomy tech ones in a box and I believe those also only moved at the hip.

if I remember most of the transforming kits did both the hip and intake.

I also agree it’s a bit early to judge the prototype. And the other pictures show artwork with straight arms, so I hope that there’s some good articulation, but max factory does both types of kits fixed pose and articulated. 

[Big s]

was looking at the hip attachments. Looks like a ball joint to the leg and some curious notches where that joint piece attaches to the fuselage. Maybe a gimmick to move the joint forward as a way to get more movement to be able to get the upper thigh/intakes to clear the wings while posing the legs forward.

[yellowlightman]

The more anime-style look of the battroid is great... but it only comes with stickers, right? Not waterslides?

[Big s]

1 hour ago, yellowlightman said:

The more anime-style look of the battroid is great... but it only comes with stickers, right? Not waterslides?

The fighter only had stickers unfortunately. There are some that do decal printing or there the annoying buy a hasegawa kit just for the decals option. I have no idea why they didn’t do waterslides

[Anasazi37]

4 hours ago, Big s said:

The fighter only had stickers unfortunately. There are some that do decal printing or there the annoying buy a hasegawa kit just for the decals option. I have no idea why they didn’t do waterslides

Wait...the 1/72 fighter kits come with stickers instead of decals? It was a mistake to do that for the 1/20 kits, but I kind of understood because the idea was to make something that big easy for novices to assemble and decorate. No one in their right mind wants stickers for a highly-detailed 1/72 scale model. All Plamax would have to do is look at literally everything made by Hasegawa and Tamiya to see that waterslides are the correct choice.

[Big s]

31 minutes ago, Anasazi37 said:

Wait...the 1/72 fighter kits come with stickers instead of decals? It was a mistake to do that for the 1/20 kits, but I kind of understood because the idea was to make something that big easy for novices to assemble and decorate. No one in their right mind wants stickers for a highly-detailed 1/72 scale model. All Plamax would have to do is look at literally everything made by Hasegawa and Tamiya to see that waterslides are the correct choice.

I think that they looked at Bandai instead unfortunately 

[Thom]

Decals can be bought on their own, but they can be from $15 to over $20, depending on where and what type you buy.

In my view, providing actual decals is just better for their product, cause it means I have to do less hunting and spending less money. I want to open their box and see everything inside that I need to build a nice, good looking kit, without the extra hassle of trying to get decals that the industry itself has conditioned me to know will be in the box.

Considering that I already have so many of the Hasegawa kits (with decals), knowing that this kits doesn't have them, is just another reason for me to not buy.

[yellowlightman]

2 hours ago, Big s said:

I think that they looked at Bandai instead unfortunately 

Yeah, I think that's precisely it. This is a kit designed to match the Bandai approach vs the hardcore scale aircraft modeler audience like Hasegawa. 

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

Decals can be bought on their own, but they can be from $15 to over $20, depending on where and what type you buy.

In my view, providing actual decals is just better for their product, cause it means I have to do less hunting and spending less money. I want to open their box and see everything inside that I need to build a nice, good looking kit, without the extra hassle of trying to get decals that the industry itself has conditioned me to know will be in the box.

Considering that I already have so many of the Hasegawa kits (with decals), knowing that this kits doesn't have them, is just another reason for me to not buy.

This has been my issue with most Bandai kits. It’s too bad max factory decided to follow in that kinda mess. I haven’t seen them do aftermarket decals the way Bandai does with some of their kits and personally I don’t have a way to print them or have any friends with that ability. I’d also hate the idea of having to buy a hasegawa kit for the decals that may not fit right with these kits.

[KOG Water Dragon]

I feel like anything that's not insignia, warning stencils, numbers, text, etc should just be painted anyway.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, KOG Water Dragon said:

I feel like anything that's not insignia, warning stencils, numbers, text, etc should just be painted anyway.

That’s just about all the decals. There’s some striping, but on a vf-1 those don’t usually follow a set panel line and in many cases will have markings along the striping. The base colors on them would be fairly simple to be molded in color, but even with the chest stripes , I’d rather have a good waterslide decal to avoid masking mistakes. The vermillion team and vf colors would be the easiest to get away with just borrowing number decals from other kits, but masking the stripes for Skull squadron would be tougher with the two tone chest colors.

my overall issue and probably many other model builders aren’t as good at paint masking for those chest markings as we wish we could be. Simple straight lines like  on the sides of legs or fuselage are pretty simple, but throw in those angles on the chest or matching the red from the kite decal to the stripe on a Hikaru 1j is another pain

[KOG Water Dragon]

I think creating big areas of color, be it chest stripes, leg stripes, wing stripes, tail fins, etc... with either stickers or decals just doesn't look great and gives me a toy-like vibe. And it can be hard to color match the decal if there's a bit of color not covered by the decals. And then there's trying to accent panel lines across a decal...

If push came to shove I'd probably rob stencil/pilot name/registration and other small markings from a Hasegawa kit. The basic 1/71 VF-1 is pretty cheap.

[Big s]

45 minutes ago, KOG Water Dragon said:

I think creating big areas of color, be it chest stripes, leg stripes, wing stripes, tail fins, etc... with either stickers or decals just doesn't look great and gives me a toy-like vibe. And it can be hard to color match the decal if there's a bit of color not covered by the decals. And then there's trying to accent panel lines across a decal...

If push came to shove I'd probably rob stencil/pilot name/registration and other small markings from a Hasegawa kit. The basic 1/71 VF-1 is pretty cheap.

As far as larger decals, they can look really good if you use a decal softener and know how to make the clear edges disappear. 

[Vifam7]

4 hours ago, Big s said:

That’s just about all the decals. There’s some striping, but on a vf-1 those don’t usually follow a set panel line and in many cases will have markings along the striping. The base colors on them would be fairly simple to be molded in color, but even with the chest stripes , I’d rather have a good waterslide decal to avoid masking mistakes. The vermillion team and vf colors would be the easiest to get away with just borrowing number decals from other kits, but masking the stripes for Skull squadron would be tougher with the two tone chest colors.

my overall issue and probably many other model builders aren’t as good at paint masking for those chest markings as we wish we could be. Simple straight lines like  on the sides of legs or fuselage are pretty simple, but throw in those angles on the chest or matching the red from the kite decal to the stripe on a Hikaru 1j is another pain

 

In general, I prefer waterslide decals as well. Unless... it's one of those shite decals that are brittle and break apart no matter what you do. Like the ones included with the Bandai VF-1 kits...🤮  I pretty much ended up painting all the wing and leg stripes on my Bandai VF-1S.

The chest area is the biggest hurdle when it comes to the VF-1. For the most part, a waterslide decal is the way to go on that area. But still... it's always been a major pain to get the chest decal to conform over the airbrake. Both on the Hasegawa and Bandai, I had to resort to some touchup painting.

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Vifam7 said:

 

In general, I prefer waterslide decals as well. Unless... it's one of those shite decals that are brittle and break apart no matter what you do. Like the ones included with the Bandai VF-1 kits...🤮  I pretty much ended up painting all the wing and leg stripes on my Bandai VF-1S.

The chest area is the biggest hurdle when it comes to the VF-1. For the most part, a waterslide decal is the way to go on that area. But still... it's always been a major pain to get the chest decal to conform over the airbrake. Both on the Hasegawa and Bandai, I had to resort to some touchup painting.

On that one, I've had to resort to several applications of Microsol, a hair dryer and a cotton swab soaked in Microsol to "ride herd" on it gently.

[Big s]

2 hours ago, Vifam7 said:

 

In general, I prefer waterslide decals as well. Unless... it's one of those shite decals that are brittle and break apart no matter what you do. Like the ones included with the Bandai VF-1 kits...🤮  I pretty much ended up painting all the wing and leg stripes on my Bandai VF-1S.

The chest area is the biggest hurdle when it comes to the VF-1. For the most part, a waterslide decal is the way to go on that area. But still... it's always been a major pain to get the chest decal to conform over the airbrake. Both on the Hasegawa and Bandai, I had to resort to some touchup painting.

For tough spots with thick decals, I usually use a thin needle at a couple of spots like where the panel line is under the decal and let microsol soak through the underside.

[Anasazi37]

I usually brush Micro Set on the target surface and the underside of the decal, apply the decal, then brush Micro Sol on top of it. No wrinkles, no air bubbles, and the film conforms to complex surfaces and panel lines well. Once the decal is fully set, I use a very sharp hobby knife and gently run it along the panel lines, then apply a bit more Micro Sol so the film can adhere to the sides of the line channels. Gives the decal that painted-on look. On the rare occasion that a decal doesn't set correctly, i.e., there is curling along the edges, I might apply a bit more Micro Sol and gently press down on the film with a cotton swab. The curling is usually an indication of an issue with the gloss coat on the target surface, an issue with the adhesive on the film, or that the film is too thick. There is a lot of thick film out there, unfortunately. Almost sticker-like. I've been getting excellent quality thin paper from the same supplier for 20+ years now. For that paper, and when I'm working with old decals, I always hand-brush on Liquid Decal Film first. Adds a nice layer of protection.

[Anasazi37]

9 hours ago, Vifam7 said:

The chest area is the biggest hurdle when it comes to the VF-1. For the most part, a waterslide decal is the way to go on that area. But still... it's always been a major pain to get the chest decal to conform over the airbrake. Both on the Hasegawa and Bandai, I had to resort to some touchup painting.

This is why I invested in a vinyl cutter about two years ago. I now make my own masks for airbrushing. If you get the design right, the masks will conform to the curved surface of the chestplate. Definitely takes some practice to get the technique down.

[kajnrig]

So I've started putting together the cockpit, and... this is supposed to be a snapfit kit, right? Because it really doesn't feel like it. So far, the seat, pilot, instrument panel, and cockpit fuselage (two parts apiece) don't so much snap fit as precisely but loosely align.

Now, it's no problem for me to glue and cement things, but I was just under the impression that this is supposed to be snapfit.

EDIT:

Yeah, not sure where I got the impression it'd be snapfit, but I'm done with the nose cone now and it most definitely will require glue to hold things together. It was a hell of a time trying to hold it in my hand without it turning into a hand grenade. Masking tape, here we come.  

Edited December 3, 2022 by kajnrig

[Chronocidal]

Yeah, I don't think they actually have any idea what their target market for these kits is.  Trying to mimic the easy builds of Bandai kits with stickers and color-molded parts, but then they require cement.   

[kajnrig]

The stickers suck. I'll leave you to guess how much time I've spent on a single step applying a grand total of four stickers.

46 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Yeah, I don't think they actually have any idea what their target market for these kits is.  Trying to mimic the easy builds of Bandai kits with stickers and color-molded parts, but then they require cement.   

The 1/20 kits at least had sheer size to run on. But these strike a really weird balance between the traditional engineering/design methods of Hasegawa and the brainlessly easy methods of Bandai that's... not bad per se, just a bit confusing.

But seriously, though, frakk those stickers. My advice: Avoid them if at all possible, otherwise cut them into component pieces that will be significantly easier to work with. They're thin and tear at the slightest provocation, the printing sucks and scrapes off at the slightest provocation, AND they're slightly magnetic and/or get a slight electric charge from peeling off the sticker sheet or SOMETHING because they'll bend toward the plastic once you get within an inch or so... Trying to lay them down neatly is the absolute worst.

Edited December 3, 2022 by kajnrig

[Chronocidal]

5 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

But seriously, though, frakk those stickers. My advice: Avoid them if at all possible, otherwise cut them into component pieces that will be significantly easier to work with.

I just never touch them on any kit I have, regardless of subject.  At least in this case many people have a large inventory of Hasegawa markings to make use of.

[kajnrig]

Yeah, definitely would recommend the old standby, paint and decals. Don't do like I do and trick yourself into thinking, "Oh, let's just try following the manual to a tee. They did such a good job on the molding and details and everything. There's NO WAY they would do that and then not pay the same attention to detail to the stickers."

[Anasazi37]

9 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Yeah, definitely would recommend the old standby, paint and decals. Don't do like I do and trick yourself into thinking, "Oh, let's just try following the manual to a tee. They did such a good job on the molding and details and everything. There's NO WAY they would do that and then not pay the same attention to detail to the stickers."

A friend of mine who collects and builds LEGO sets swears by this method:

https://www.lego.com/ms-my/service/help/fun-for-fans/behind-the-scenes/brick-facts/apply-decals-blt39ee67a2a9490ca7

"Our designers have shared this trick for applying decals: lightly spray a window cleaner on the surface of the parts to be decorated. This will allow you to adjust the decal without damaging it. Once you have the decal in the right place, use a flat edge to smooth out any bubbles and let it dry."

I prefer paint and decals as well, but if you're stuck with stickers, this method might be worth considering. You could also use a small brush and just lightly apply the cleaner. That way you're not blasting the entire part with liquid. I've never tried this approach, but I can see how it might work decently well. Rubbing alcohol might work, too. Neither one should be used on a painted surface, though.

[Bolt]

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

So I've started putting together the cockpit, and... this is supposed to be a snapfit kit, right? Because it really doesn't feel like it. So far, the seat, pilot, instrument panel, and cockpit fuselage (two parts apiece) don't so much snap fit as precisely but loosely align.

Now, it's no problem for me to glue and cement things, but I was just under the impression that this is supposed to be snapfit.

EDIT:

Yeah, not sure where I got the impression it'd be snapfit, but I'm done with the nose cone now and it most definitely will require glue to hold things together. It was a hell of a time trying to hold it in my hand without it turning into a hand grenade. Masking tape, here we come.  

For some reason, I thought the same. But I'll admit, I haven't been too interested in another line of 1/72 VF-1 Battroids. 

 

13 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Yeah, I don't think they actually have any idea what their target market for these kits is.  Trying to mimic the easy builds of Bandai kits with stickers and color-molded parts, but then they require cement.   

Why doesn't Bandai just do a snap fit HG style VF ?? They own that sh+t !

[Thom]

18 hours ago, kajnrig said:

So I've started putting together the cockpit, and... this is supposed to be a snapfit kit, right? Because it really doesn't feel like it. So far, the seat, pilot, instrument panel, and cockpit fuselage (two parts apiece) don't so much snap fit as precisely but loosely align.

Now, it's no problem for me to glue and cement things, but I was just under the impression that this is supposed to be snapfit.

EDIT:

Yeah, not sure where I got the impression it'd be snapfit, but I'm done with the nose cone now and it most definitely will require glue to hold things together. It was a hell of a time trying to hold it in my hand without it turning into a hand grenade. Masking tape, here we come.  

That video of the guy just slipping it all together may be a liiiiitle misleading.

[sketchley]

14 hours ago, Anasazi37 said:

A friend of mine who collects and builds LEGO sets swears by this method:

https://www.lego.com/ms-my/service/help/fun-for-fans/behind-the-scenes/brick-facts/apply-decals-blt39ee67a2a9490ca7

"Our designers have shared this trick for applying decals: lightly spray a window cleaner on the surface of the parts to be decorated. This will allow you to adjust the decal without damaging it. Once you have the decal in the right place, use a flat edge to smooth out any bubbles and let it dry."

I prefer paint and decals as well, but if you're stuck with stickers, this method might be worth considering. You could also use a small brush and just lightly apply the cleaner. That way you're not blasting the entire part with liquid. I've never tried this approach, but I can see how it might work decently well. Rubbing alcohol might work, too. Neither one should be used on a painted surface, though.

That's similar to the technique used by Japanese modellers to put stickers on:

• using tweezers, touch the sticky side on water (to pick up a couple of small droplets)
• place the sticker in the right place
• roll out (and suck up) the excess water with a Q-tip, releasing the tweezers in the process when the sticker is sufficiently affixed.

Edited December 4, 2022 by sketchley

[Anasazi37]

8 hours ago, sketchley said:

That's similar to the technique used by Japanese modellers to put stickers on:

• using tweezers, touch the sticky side on water (to pick up a couple of small droplets)
• place the sticker in the right place
• roll out (and suck up) the excess water with a Q-tip, releasing the tweezers in the process when the sticker is sufficiently affixed.

Interesting. Perhaps one advantage of the LEGO method is that window cleaner is engineered to evaporate quickly and that might not happen with water, but both should work in roughly the same way. Brushing a little bit of the cleaner on the backside of the sticker before application would eliminate a lot of potential mess. I sometimes brush setting solution on the backside of a decal before application, instead of brushing the target surface.

[pengbuzz]

I can make decals force dry in place by glaring at them until hey surrender.

Usually takes a couple of hours though..

[no3Ljm]

https://hjweb.jp/article/812147/

[Anasazi37]

30 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

"On the right is what we think our customers can do with this kit right out of the box, even if they have no model building experience. On the left is what they actually get. Note how well the red stickers adhere to the vertical stabilizers. Great job, everyone. High fives all around."

- Plamax

[kajnrig]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:20 AM, Anasazi37 said:

I prefer paint and decals as well, but if you're stuck with stickers, this method might be worth considering. You could also use a small brush and just lightly apply the cleaner. That way you're not blasting the entire part with liquid. I've never tried this approach, but I can see how it might work decently well. Rubbing alcohol might work, too. Neither one should be used on a painted surface, though.

On 12/4/2022 at 12:19 AM, sketchley said:

That's similar to the technique used by Japanese modellers to put stickers on:

• using tweezers, touch the sticky side on water (to pick up a couple of small droplets)
• place the sticker in the right place
• roll out (and suck up) the excess water with a Q-tip, releasing the tweezers in the process when the sticker is sufficiently affixed.

Thanks very much for the advice. I didn't have any window cleaner on hand, but in looking more into it, I saw other people swearing by soapy water as well, which I did have on hand. And wouldn't you know it? It DOES work, pretty well too! But at that point, I'm basically working with waterslides again, to which I must throw my hands up once more and question why they didn't just go that route in the first place then. 

One thing I forgot to consider was panel lining; I was too busy thinking about a "straight build." I should've panel-lined first before applying the stickers. Some of the stickers take panel lines into account, but others don't. Bahgrumblegrumblegrumble. Oh well. It's my fault for not thinking things through thoroughly enough. It'll look fine. Definitely gonna take off those red stabilizer stickers, though. Ugh. Maybe just throw some red marker on that area; it certainly wouldn't look worse than they do. (Unless you have similarly remarkable advice on how to get stickers to fully wrap around complex surfaces...? A "decal solvent for stickers," perhaps? )

On 12/3/2022 at 1:03 PM, Bolt said:

Why doesn't Bandai just do a snap fit HG style VF ?? They own that sh+t !

Yeah, I feel like a new 1/100 VF-1 done in the same spirit and style as their recently-announced YF-19 and YF-29 kits would be really nice. Their 1/72 kit is snapfit, sure, but also all I hear about it from people who got their hands on it back in the day is how much of a mess it is. A parts-forming 1/100 kit would save so much design work for them and save so much frustration for us.

...actually, now that I think about it, that basically describes exactly the Wave 1/100 kits, and now I'm kicking myself for never getting any of those when they were still being made...

 

On 12/3/2022 at 3:41 PM, Thom said:

That video of the guy just slipping it all together may be a liiiiitle misleading.

That must've been it. Damn you, promotional videos! How dare you not reflect reality!

[sketchley]

5 hours ago, kajnrig said:

... (Unless you have similarly remarkable advice on how to get stickers to fully wrap around complex surfaces...? A "decal solvent for stickers," perhaps? )
 

The only solution I had* was "paint it".

So your red marker idea will not look worse.  In fact, it'll probably turn out heads and shoulders better.  And long term—you won't have to worry about the stickers half popping off!  (← happened to me with the stickers for the wingtip running lights on the Bandai transforming VF-1 kits.)

 

* Macross Delta VF-31 mini kits and their flat sticker that goes over the round cockpit.

[Urashiman]

On 12/3/2022 at 4:05 AM, kajnrig said:

So I've started putting together the cockpit, and... this is supposed to be a snapfit kit, right? Because it really doesn't feel like it. So far, the seat, pilot, instrument panel, and cockpit fuselage (two parts apiece) don't so much snap fit as precisely but loosely align.

Now, it's no problem for me to glue and cement things, but I was just under the impression that this is supposed to be snapfit.

EDIT:

Yeah, not sure where I got the impression it'd be snapfit, but I'm done with the nose cone now and it most definitely will require glue to hold things together. It was a hell of a time trying to hold it in my hand without it turning into a hand grenade. Masking tape, here we come.  

post pictures of your build please

[kajnrig]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:57 AM, Urashiman said:

post pictures of your build please

Ask and ye shall receive. Behold, in all its yellow stripy glory:

That tail sticker is already dangling by a thread after 5 days of sitting in the box. Yikes.

Unfortunately, I think that's it for now from me. This was supposed to be just a quick test fit for now so I could get a sense of how the kit builds before getting back to another project that's consuming my time - the 1/72 "Rodams RAS-40" GP04 (major pain in the butt, highly NOT recommended, best to do your LED wiring if you absolutely must have it). After seeing it wouldn't hold together on its own, I made what I now realize is the mistake of deciding to sticker the kit as I go. Now I'm gonna have to carefully remove said stickers and basically start the build over, for real this time.

 

Oh well. Lesson learned.  Into the box it goes for now.

I will say, with regards to the kit, I like the overall shapes of everything. I'm still a bit too used to the Hasegawa shape - a bit fuller overall - but the slimmer look isn't bad. I dare say, though, the tail fins are maybe too vertical and could stand to be canted a bit more.

Anyway, that's enough rambling from me. Hope everyone else is having fun with this kit.