A Discussion - Buying Multiple Pre-Orders To Sell To Pay For Units Being Kept

[sqidd]

What do you guys think of the practice of buying quite a few pre-order units to sell later in an attempt to cost reduce the units kept? For example (really rough numbers).

I buy six Arcadia VF-0D Premium Editions at $450/ unit. I sell four of those units for $675 (which is less than the older Ver 1 units sell for) to people that didn't get in on the pre-orders. I net $900 in margin on the four units which covers the cost of the two units I keep.

The questions:

-Is there are moral problem with this?

-Is it "price gouging"?

-Is it just smart business?

Obviously the cornerstone of making money is capitalism. But there is a line between making money, and being predatory. I'm curious what you guys think.

 

[Slave IV]

I think you do what you want with your money. Just know that nothing is guaranteed but it is likely you will end up making a profit if you wait long enough. I don’t agree with the way our form of capitalism puts money above life itself but it is the reality we live in so there is nothing less moral about selling some collector's items compared to corporations that literally kill for profits. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Slave IV

[nightmareB4macross]

You are just a scalper.

I understand what you’re doing but this is the reason so many people end up buying at inflated prices when initially they were ready to commit to the original PO to begin with. This just stinks to hell and makes the PO process ridiculous.

Apologies if this offends you but these are my two cents about it.

Edited September 1, 2019 by nightmareB4macross
Spellcheck.

[sqidd]

4 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

I think you do what you want with your money. Just know that nothing is guaranteed but it is likely you will end up making a profit if you wait long enough. I don’t agree with they way our form of capitalism puts money above life itself but it is the reality we live in so there is nothing less moral about selling some collector's items compared to corporations that literally kill for profits. 

Oh yeah, always risking it when making an investment. It's every day life for me.

 

I also don't agree with our cultures tenancy to put money/things above everything else. I see a lot of people being wage slaves or slaves to all the unnecessary junk they think they need in their life. I feel bad for them. Don't get me wrong, I like having some money. But I view money as something that will allow me to do the things I want to do like mountain biking. I don't care that I own the bikes I do. They mean nothing to me. What is important to me is they allow me to able to ride a lot with friends out in nature. Just one example of many.

 

In the case of the hypothetical  VF-0D investment. I'm not looking to gouge anyone. I would wait for a average going rate to settle in and then sell mine for under that. I of course would like to make money on any investment. But, I don't need to make ALL THE MONEY.

[sqidd]

12 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Your just a scalper.

I understand what you’re doing but this is the reason so many people en up buying at inflated prices when initially they were already to commit to the original PO to begin with. This just stinks to hell and makes the PO process ridiculous.

Apologies if this offends you but these are my two cents about it.

I asked for honest answers. And this is exactly what I'm looking for. I also understand your perspective.

I don't understand this market very well. Are there times when people miss out on PO's because of scalpers? If that's the case there is a moral component. But, if they're being re-sold to people who missed the window because they didn't know it was open or didn't know they even wanted one until after it was closed that is a different moral distinction isn't it? At that point you would be providing them with a service. And service costs money.

I'm not trying to argue or even debate. Only have a discussion about the lay of the land. These ideas I'm throwing out aren't "beliefs", They only test ideas/perspectives. I'm not coming down on one side or the other. I would need to have more information to be able to do that. And that's why I started the thread. To get more information and opinions.

 

 

[Slave IV]

@sqidd, it sounds to me like you have a good mindset. I'm sure you are also savy enough to realize that depending on the method you use to sell, you need to take fees and shipping into account so your profits may end up being much lower than you expect. Basically, there is a reason for businesses that specialize in selling these things and doing this as a way to make money probably isn't the greatest idea but again, you do what you want to do with your money. In this particular case and other Web Exclusives, anyone who wants the item can preorder it themselves and they are made to order so you are not depriving anyone of anything. If anything, like you said, you would be providing a service that cost you your own money up front to provide people who missed out for whatever reason to get something they want. There are other items that do sell out extremely quick like Bandai DX Macross so if you are specifically buying a whole bunch of them just to sell, then that is a bit annoying to people who just want to get one but I still think if you have the skills and ability to buy more than three when someone can't even get one, that skill is worth something too, lol! In the end, If someone is willing to pay the price you want, that is exactly how capitalism works. No offense to anyone else but I find it highly hypocrytical if someone were to badmouth you for trying to do this unless that person has never supported a corporation that has done far worse in the scheme of things for the same goal of profiting. I don't like it personally and the way I speak out against it is I don't buy anything that is over retail price. If I missed out, I missed out. No big deal to me and I'm willing to wait for the next thing, a rerelease of some form or better version in the future or something else altogether. My collection is vast enough that I don't need to worry about missing out and it probably is good for me and my space, lol.

[sqidd]

6 hours ago, Slave IV said:

@sqidd, it sounds to me like you have a good mindset. I'm sure you are also savy enough to realize that depending on the method you use to sell, you need to take fees and shipping into account so your profits may end up being much lower than you expect. Basically, there is a reason for businesses that specialize in selling these things and doing this as a way to make money probably isn't the greatest idea but again, you do what you want to do with your money. In this particular case and other Web Exclusives, anyone who wants the item can preorder it themselves and they are made to order so you are not depriving anyone of anything. If anything, like you said, you would be providing a service that cost you your own money up front to provide people who missed out for whatever reason to get something they want. There are other items that do sell out extremely quick like Bandai DX Macross so if you are specifically buying a whole bunch of them just to sell, then that is a bit annoying to people who just want to get one but I still think if you have the skills and ability to buy more than three when someone can't even get one, that skill is worth something too, lol! In the end, If someone is willing to pay the price you want, that is exactly how capitalism works. No offense to anyone else but I find it highly hypocrytical if someone were to badmouth you for trying to do this unless that person has never supported a corporation that has done far worse in the scheme of things for the same goal of profiting. I don't like it personally and the way I speak out against it is I don't buy anything that is over retail price. If I missed out, I missed out. No big deal to me and I'm willing to wait for the next thing, a rerelease of some form or better version in the future or something else altogether. My collection is vast enough that I don't need to worry about missing out and it probably is good for me and my space, lol.

Thanks for you input.

I'm not looking for a way to "make money" perse. If I were to do let's just say web exclusives I would be doing it to amortize the cost of the units I want to put on the shelf. In a perfect scenario get the cost of my units to zero.

This VF-0D Premium is the first pre-order I have gotten in on. I've never been in on a Bandia DX. I'm seeing the differences between the two now. I agree it's pretty dicky for someone to get in on a DX pre-order and buy let's say 100 units which in turn would deprive 99 people of the ability to get one at the pre order pricing. That's like scalping concert tickets. Which is something I don't dislike on principal, but it does drive me crazy when I have to pay over retail for a show I really want to go to. I don't want to be "that guy", so I wouldn't do that with something like a DX.

I sent up this trial balloon as just that. Just to see what things look like. I'm in no way shape or form looking to cash in on something like this. My business is pretty overwhelmed right now. I'm booked out for at least the next 30 months. I certainly don't lack for opportunity. I'm pretty good at what I do because I always have my eyes open for opportunity/holes in the market. Because I'm always "eyes open" I view more than just my business through those lenses. That's how this got on my radar. 

At this point I'm not planning on buying toys to re-sell. Maaaayyyybe a web exclusive here and there. Maybe. Certainly not stuff that will take retail pricing out of someone else's hands.

Thanks for your time and time and insight. I appreciate it a lot when people can have a nuanced discussion on the internet. It's unfortunately rare.

Edited September 1, 2019 by sqidd

[derex3592]

@sqidd - to fully understand our hatred of scalpers and bot users, simply drop in for the next middle of the night Bandai 1:48 DX release.  You will realize very quickly our frustrations! 

[sqidd]

2 minutes ago, derex3592 said:

@sqidd - to fully understand our hatred of scalpers and bot users, simply drop in for the next middle of the night Bandai 1:48 DX release.  You will realize very quickly our frustrations! 

Yeah, I can't wait <sarcasm font>.

I suspect the next thing I'm in for is the DX YF-1S Focker with S&S parts. I'm a huge Focker dork. I want three so I can display in all modes sanctimoniously. I have a feeling I'm going to be yelling at my computer on release day.

[HardlyNever]

11 hours ago, sqidd said:

What do you guys think of the practice of buying quite a few pre-order units to sell later in an attempt to cost reduce the units kept? For example (really rough numbers).

I buy six Arcadia VF-0D Premium Editions at $450/ unit. I sell four of those units for $675 (which is less than the older Ver 1 units sell for) to people that didn't get in on the pre-orders. I net $900 in margin on the four units which covers the cost of the two units I keep.

The questions:

-Is there are moral problem with this?

-Is it "price gouging"?

-Is it just smart business?

Obviously the cornerstone of making money is capitalism. But there is a line between making money, and being predatory. I'm curious what you guys think.

 

This is an age-old discussion on collectible forums/communities of all kinds.  The reality is there is a huge spectrum of people who collect and buy, and for various reasons.  On one end you've got the guy who only collects what they want for their own enjoyment and doesn't care about the value of the item on the secondary market at all (long or short term).  On the other you've got basically the pure scalper who only buys things to resell, either in the short or long term.  And there are tons of people in the middle who do some version of both.

There is no right answer; ultimately, it is what you are comfortable with and what you enjoy doing.  Scalpers who buy multiples of an item only to immediately re-post the the item for a mark-up draw a lot of ire (and probably deservedly so).  While someone who buys 5 of every release, only to sell 2-3 of them later, unopened (whether it be months or years) at a mark-up seem to get a pass by the community in general.

While I'm certainly not defending scalpers, my core issue with this entire conversation is that it results in other people deciding what is the "appropriate" way for other people to handle their money and property,  which I'm fundamentally against.  People start drawing arbitrary lines in the sand that define "acceptable" collecting behavior on one side, and "predatory" on the other.  And everyone draws that line in a different spot, and whatever their behavior is is always conveniently on the right side of the line.

Imo, the scalping issue can only really be resolved at the production level (and maybe mitigated somewhat at the retail level).  So enjoy the hobby however you want, just be advised that if people see you engaging in "scalper-like" behavior (again, a subjective opinion) you might draw the ire of some community members.

[Slave IV]

Well elaborated @HardlyNever

@sqidd, again you seem to have reasonable intentions and if you have the cash to sit on a few thousand dollars worth of Valks to maybe someday sell and get your one or two paid for, by all means more power to you. 

Unless the Focker DX 1S is a Web Exclusive, get ready for an all out bloodbath. It is an experience that can be extremely satisfying if you succeed in securing one at preorder discount pricing or extremely frustrating if all you end up with is getting cartjacked all night. Either way, it will be a workout for your F5 finger and a roller coaster.

You will also see this community at its best, with people updating with posts to links and helping each however they can to get an order in. There are even people who are able to secure multiple orders and turn those extras over to people who missed out. This sense of community and helping each other out is this forum’s finest aspect, imo. We are all clearly (obviously) Macross fans.

[sqidd]

11 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

 

You will also see this community at its best, with people updating with posts to links and helping each however they can to get an order in. There are even people who are able to secure multiple orders and turn those extras over to people who missed out. This sense of community and helping each other out is this forum’s finest aspect, imo. We are all clearly (obviously) Macross fans.

This will be interesting for sure. I'm curious how it goes. It will be my first "bloodbath". I'm hoping to secure three for myself.

 

[sqidd]

41 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

While someone who buys 5 of every release, only to sell 2-3 of them later, unopened (whether it be months or years) at a mark-up seem to get a pass by the community in general.

 

This would be me if I did it.^^^^ 

Great post BTW, thank you for your insight.

[Slave IV]

2 minutes ago, sqidd said:

This will be interesting for sure. I'm curious how it goes. It will be my first "bloodbath". I'm hoping to secure three for myself.

 

Good luck to you! I consider myself an experienced pro at this, not the best but I’ve always been successful until a few recent items and also being hindered by all the shops “upgrading” their websites and actually making them worse. I was unable to secure DX VF-1S Hikaru and Focker is sure to be even more difficult to get (if it’s not an exclusive). 

[sqidd]

Just now, Slave IV said:

Good luck to you! I consider myself an experienced pro at this, not the best but I’ve always been successful until a few recent items and also being hindered by all the shops “upgrading” their websites and actually making them worse. I was unable to secure DX VF-1S Hikaru and Focker is sure to be even more difficult to get (if it’s not an exclusive). 

Why are the exclusives easier to get. I don't think I understand what the difference between the two different type of offerings are. The latest VF-0D Premium is a exclusive correct?

[Slave IV]

19 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Why are the exclusives easier to get. I don't think I understand what the difference between the two different type of offerings are. The latest VF-0D Premium is a exclusive correct?

It’s funny because it’s usually the other way around. For Arcadia, they are a small operation of basically Macross fans who were involved with Yamato back when they were still in business and they acquired the rights to the molds Yamato used to continue to release products under the new Arcadia. Since they are small, all their items are pretty much made to order so there is usually no preorder madness for them. It’s actually worse to me when they have web exclusives because you need to use the Proxy service or if any shops get it, you need to pay the full price plus the shops markup. 

Bandai is a whole different story. They are one of the largest toy manufacturers in the world and Macross is a niche brand that barely registers in their overall profits. Because of this and the fact that the Macross brand is on a hold in the world other than Japan (see the hated Harmony Gold situation), they don’t allocate resources to produce Macross releases in large numbers. Since certain web shops started up with large intent on selling to foreign markets, we are now able to buy Macross figures direct from Japan even though it is technically not completely legal. This means the demand pretty much exceeds the supply that Bandai is making these figures for so the regular releases sell out almost instantly. The reason why the Bandai Tamashii Web Exclusives are easier to get is because they treat these items as build to order, kinda like all Arcadia products. They have a set time frame when you can order and as long as you order in that time, which is usually over a month, you are good to go. 

[Shizuka the Cat]

Did I hear someone say pre-order madness bloodbath??? 

(* pulls out a pair of goggles, dish washing gloves, and two cats who have not been fed in 3 days *)

When and what is the next pre-order madness going to be?

[Slave IV]

53 minutes ago, Shizuka the Cat said:

Did I hear someone say pre-order madness bloodbath??? 

(* pulls out a pair of goggles, dish washing gloves, and two cats who have not been fed in 3 days *)

When and what is the next pre-order madness going to be?

Haha, I don't think any are announced yet (thankfully for my wallet) but look forward to your help! 

[sqidd]

1 hour ago, Slave IV said:

It’s funny because it’s usually the other way around. For Arcadia, they are a small operation of basically Macross fans who were involved with Yamato back when they were still in business and they acquired the rights to the molds Yamato used to continue to release products under the new Arcadia. Since they are small, all their items are pretty much made to order so there is usually no preorder madness for them. It’s actually worse to me when they have web exclusives because you need to use the Proxy service or if any shops get it, you need to pay the full price plus the shops markup. 

Bandai is a whole different story. They are one of the largest toy manufacturers in the world and Macross is a niche brand that barely registers in their overall profits. Because of this and the fact that the Macross brand is on a hold in the world other than Japan (see the hated Harmony Gold situation), they don’t allocate resources to produce Macross releases in large numbers. Since certain web shops started up with large intent on selling to foreign markets, we are now able to buy Macross figures direct from Japan even though it is technically not completely legal. This means the demand pretty much exceeds the supply that Bandai is making these figures for so the regular releases sell out almost instantly. The reason why the Bandai Tamashii Web Exclusives are easier to get is because they treat these items as build to order, kinda like all Arcadia products. They have a set time frame when you can order and as long as you order in that time, which is usually over a month, you are good to go. 

Riddle me this Batman.

I just got back into this. The day I got back into it I "pre-ordered" a couple of VF-1S Hikaru's and a couple S&S parts. I got them for roughly $500/ (Valk and S&S) parts. They were available at NY. I'm assuming there was an actual pre-order for those that was a bloodbath and the people who got in on that paid less than I did? How much? So what units (that were yet to be made) did they sell me? Units NY got during pre order madness? Or somehow allocated to the by Bandia? 

 

Thanks!

[sqidd]

58 minutes ago, Shizuka the Cat said:

Did I hear someone say pre-order madness bloodbath??? 

(* pulls out a pair of goggles, dish washing gloves, and two cats who have not been fed in 3 days *)

When and what is the next pre-order madness going to be?

My assumption is the next one is going to be the DX Focker. No dates released as far as I can tell.

[Slave IV]

1 minute ago, sqidd said:

Riddle me this Batman.

I just got back into this. The day I got back into it I "pre-ordered" a couple of VF-1S Hikaru's and a couple S&S parts. I got them for roughly $500/ (Valk and S&S) parts. They were available at NY. I'm assuming there was an actual pre-order for those that was a bloodbath and the people who got in on that paid less than I did? How much? So what units (that were yet to be made) did they sell me? Units NY got during pre order madness? Or somehow allocated to the by Bandia? 

 

Thanks!

NY had the VF-1S Hikaru for around 17,000Y but that lasted for less time than I was able to secure one because I was refreshing the page every second until it showed up but was unable to check out fast enough to get the deal. The S&S parts are TWE so you got the regular price for those and they will not go up until after release. They are still available for the same price. That is a good example of the difference between regular releases and TWE ones.

[HardlyNever]

1 minute ago, sqidd said:

Riddle me this Batman.

I just got back into this. The day I got back into it I "pre-ordered" a couple of VF-1S Hikaru's and a couple S&S parts. I got them for roughly $500/ (Valk and S&S) parts. They were available at NY. I'm assuming there was an actual pre-order for those that was a bloodbath and the people who got in on that paid less than I did? How much? So what units (that were yet to be made) did they sell me? Units NY got during pre order madness? Or somehow allocated to the by Bandia? 

 

Thanks!

For the DX Hikaru VF-1S, yes you payed a mark-up.  The pre-order price for that valk at NY was 15k yen.  Very, very few people got it for this (myself and several others had it in our cart at that price on pre-order night, only to lose it and have it replaced with a marked-up one.  Sneaky NY).  This is a tactic NY in particular does with the super-high demand stuff like the DX vf-1.  

I got a Hikaru VF-1S from HLJ on pre-order night for about $180, before shipping, as a point of reference.  You probably didn't pay a mark-up on the SS parts, as they are still in pre-order (the benefit of web exclusive stuff vs regular release stuff).

[sqidd]

1 minute ago, Slave IV said:

NY had the VF-1S Hikaru for around 17,000Y but that lasted for less time than I was able to secure one because I was refreshing the page every second until it showed up but was unable to check out fast enough to get the deal. The S&S parts are TWE so you got the regular price for those and they will not go up until after release. They are still available for the same price. That is a good example of the difference between regular releases and TWE ones.

Holy smokes, so they were $160ish dollars for about 10 seconds, LOL? That's....................................frustrating.

It sounds like scalpers are using bots huh?

[sqidd]

2 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

I got a Hikaru VF-1S from HLJ on pre-order night for about $180, before shipping, as a point of reference.  You probably didn't pay a mark-up on the SS parts, as they are still in pre-order (the benefit of web exclusive stuff vs regular release stuff).

Sounds like putting my eggs in a non NY basket is going to be a good idea huh?

[sqidd]

I wonder how hard it is to develop a bot (I have no idea about that sort of thing). As a group we could develop a bot and then secure MW members pre order pricing. There has to be a way of making that work.

[HardlyNever]

7 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Holy smokes, so they were $160ish dollars for about 10 seconds, LOL? That's....................................frustrating.

It sounds like scalpers are using bots huh?

It's entirely possible/likely scalpers are using bots, although the newer websites from HLJ and AmiAmi are what I would call "bot resistant."  But they are still "bot-able."  

Older websites are fodder for bots.

5 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Sounds like putting my eggs in a non NY basket is going to be a good idea huh?

On a real pre-order madness night™ you should have any and all available vendors you're willing to use open in multiple tabs.  You'll be very lucky to score one, when it comes to the DX VF-1 valks (out of 6-8 vendors).  The Focker release might break the internetz.  

If you still have your sanity after a pre-order madness night, you're doing it wrong.  People are not exaggerating this, it is that bad.  Many of us question continuing with this hobby if it continues to be this bad. 

3 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I wonder how hard it is to develop a bot (I have no idea about that sort of thing). As a group we could develop a bot and then secure MW members pre order pricing. There has to be a way of making that work.

You're basically recreated the discussion that happens after every pre-order madness.  I know you're new, so it's fine.  Just be aware this entire discussion (scalpers, bots, what we can/should do, quitting the hobby) repeats after every pre-order madness night.  Come hang out with us in the DX threads next pre-order, and you'll see it in real-time.

Edited September 1, 2019 by HardlyNever

[sqidd]

Ok, just answered my own question. It looks like $10K+ to develop a bot. That seems really expensive for what should be very simple. I'm going to check with my web developer. Google may not be my friend on this one.

[sqidd]

2 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

It's entirely possible/likely scalpers are using bots, although the newer websites from HLJ and AmiAmi are what I would call "bot resistant."  But they are still "bot-able."  

Older websites are fodder for bots.

On a real pre-order madness night™ you should have any and all available vendors you're willing to use open in multiple tabs.  You'll be very lucky to score one, when it comes to the DX VF-1 valks (out of 6-8 vendors).  The Focker release might break the internetz.  

If you still have your sanity after a pre-order madness night, you're doing it wrong.  People are not exaggerating this, it is that bad.  Many of us question continuing with this hobby if it continues to be this bad. 

Awesome! <sarcasm>

[Slave IV]

6 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Holy smokes, so they were $160ish dollars for about 10 seconds, LOL? That's....................................frustrating.

It sounds like scalpers are using bots huh?

 

5 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Sounds like putting my eggs in a non NY basket is going to be a good idea huh?

So, I looked at my records and we were both a bit off on the original NY price, it was 16,280Y if you got it in time.

As for bots, I don't know but I think that is highly likely the case. I haven't gotten that crazy into it but if someone wants to give me an easy way to give me better chances, I'll take it.

Also, you want to put your eggs in every basket possible when preorder madness comes. I have multiple devices and tabs open, refreshing them all as fast as I can to get my orders in and that still didn't work for me for the Hikaru DX 1S.

[sqidd]

4 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

 

So, I looked at my records and we were both a bit off on the original NY price, it was 16,280Y if you got it in time.

As for bots, I don't know but I think that is highly likely the case. I haven't gotten that crazy into it but if someone wants to give me an easy way to give me better chances, I'll take it.

Also, you want to put your eggs in every basket possible when preorder madness comes. I have multiple devices and tabs open, refreshing them all as fast as I can to get my orders in and that still didn't work for me for the Hikaru DX 1S.

I just sent an email to my web developer. She is s wiz. Bots may not be her thing, but may know someone. We just needed to get some custom software made for our site. She had someone who could do what we needed (it's pretty complex) in her arsenal of contacts. 

I'm not expecting something like this to happen. But it's interesting to explore.

This would be a good example of how to be a "moral scalper". Let's say I pay to have a bot created. I generate XXX amount of interest form MW members. I use my bot to secure that may releases. I charge more than the regular pre order price to cover bot costs, time, investment and a little profit. And everyone gets their order in for a lot closer to the pre order price than retail.

I don't know if I have the time , investment (300 Valks would be me putting $45K on the line) or maybe even the interest to see it through. I am super interested in if there is a solution to the problem though.

[Slave IV]

5 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I just sent an email to my web developer. She is s wiz. Bots may not be her thing, but may know someone. We just needed to get some custom software made for our site. She had someone who could do what we needed (it's pretty complex) in her arsenal of contacts. 

I'm not expecting something like this to happen. But it's interesting to explore.

This would be a good example of how to be a "moral scalper". Let's say I pay to have a bot created. I generate XXX amount of interest form MW members. I use my bot to secure that may releases. I charge more than the regular pre order price to cover bot costs, time, investment and a little profit. And everyone gets their order in for a lot closer to the pre order price than retail.

I don't know if I have the time , investment (300 Valks would be me putting $45K on the line) or maybe even the interest to see it through. I am super interested in if there is a solution to the problem though.

Interesting...I get the need to get your investment back but I personally would not pay any extra.  This is all a game to me and if I’m good enough to get one myself, cool! If I miss out, there are still a few more chances when it releases and it’s just a toy so nbd. Based on my own evaluation and calculations, most of these online shops are not getting much more than 100 units for preorder. NY may have even less since they allocate some stock to their markup if it is a popular item. 

[sqidd]

2 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

Interesting...I get the need to get your investment back but I personally would not pay any extra.  This is all a game to me and if I’m good enough to get one myself, cool! If I miss out, there are still a few more chances when it releases and it’s just a toy so nbd. Based on my own evaluation and calculations, most of these online shops are not getting much more than 100 units for preorder. NY may have even less since they allocate some stock to their markup if it is a popular item. 

That was just a "dumb math" example to illustrate the idea.

I'm not really looking to do this. More curious than anything. Frankly, I shouldn't even be thinking about it. I have a TON of work to do I know will pay off. No need to invent more situations......................................that will make next to no money.

[HardlyNever]

19 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I just sent an email to my web developer. She is s wiz. Bots may not be her thing, but may know someone. We just needed to get some custom software made for our site. She had someone who could do what we needed (it's pretty complex) in her arsenal of contacts. 

I'm not expecting something like this to happen. But it's interesting to explore.

This would be a good example of how to be a "moral scalper". Let's say I pay to have a bot created. I generate XXX amount of interest form MW members. I use my bot to secure that may releases. I charge more than the regular pre order price to cover bot costs, time, investment and a little profit. And everyone gets their order in for a lot closer to the pre order price than retail.

I don't know if I have the time , investment (300 Valks would be me putting $45K on the line) or maybe even the interest to see it through. I am super interested in if there is a solution to the problem though.

So... I am actually a web developer, but I don't do much automation scripting.  I've absolutely considered making a bot to get out of this, but ultimately, imo, it isn't worth it.  Let me preface this with saying I'm not saying to NOT do it.  If fact, I still might. Also, I'm not an expert on scripting bots in particular, so you might find someone that is more willing and knowledgeable to give it a try.  But here are some things you need to consider:

1) The new website architecture at AmiAmi and HLJ make botting those particular sites very hard.  You'd basically have to get the page before the pre-order opens (which they stopped doing) and change your bot to fit that specific page.  This itself could possibly automated, but you'd lose precious few seconds having a script self-correct.

2) NY, in true NY fashion, isn't really more "bot resistant," as much as it is just plain stupid and anti-user, because they use an insane ticketing system that seems nearly random.  So you could run your bots on that site, increasing your odds and saving you the headache of doing it your self, but you'll just be put in the random queue with everyone else.

3) Some of the older sites are absolutely "bottable" and those are the ones I would target.  The problem here is latency.  Most of the botters (it is theorized) are operating out of China or somewhere else in that area.  So they are closer the vendor servers than you are.  So unless you find a VPN or some other remote solution that is willing to run your bot from that location, you'll be at a disadvantage still.  So you can run bots on it, but you still might come up empty-handed, because their bots have a latency advantage.  It still might be worth trying, though.

4) Most of the scalpers that use bots do this "professionally."  In other words, they scalp a lot more than Macross products, so they have the resources like server farms to allocate to botting whatever it is that they are targeting at that time.  Basically you'll be a small fish in a big pond of botting.  Of course we already are, when we do it manually.

Having "Macross World bots," imo, is fantasy land.  You'd still be lucky to score more than 3 or 4 releases using a number of bots, so you'd still have way less supply than demand.  You're honestly just better off botting for yourself.

Then there is the moral question and all that, but, that is different kettle of fish.

Edited September 1, 2019 by HardlyNever

[HardlyNever]

6 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

Interesting...I get the need to get your investment back but I personally would not pay any extra.  This is all a game to me and if I’m good enough to get one myself, cool! If I miss out, there are still a few more chances when it releases and it’s just a toy so nbd. Based on my own evaluation and calculations, most of these online shops are not getting much more than 100 units for preorder. NY may have even less since they allocate some stock to their markup if it is a popular item. 

We can see the current stock-count in the API at various sites.  It is an interesting discussion in itself, and how they are different. but it seems like HLJ and AmiAmi have around 100-200 (like you said).

NY, of course, plays a different game were they seem to never have their stock go down, because they do the thing where they secure it from other vendors/sources, at a mark-up.

Basically all those places have per-customer limits of 1 or 2, so you'd have to send a wave of bots all at once (with different accounts ofc), and all try to get in and secure more orders.

[Anasazi37]

3 hours ago, Shizuka the Cat said:

Did I hear someone say pre-order madness bloodbath??? 

(* pulls out a pair of goggles, dish washing gloves, and two cats who have not been fed in 3 days *)

When and what is the next pre-order madness going to be?

Holy smokes, @Shizuka the Catis upping her game. I definitely don't want to be competing with you on PO Madness night!

Edited September 1, 2019 by Anasazi37