Focslain Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/30/2021 at 12:31 AM, sqidd said: They could have done it with a fresh faced cast and a fresh/updated story Expand That kind of defeats the moral of the story, at least the one the movie was telling. You needed those two for 4 to work, otherwise you have just a pure reboot film. Granted if that is what you want then ok, but that wasn't the point of 4. Quote
sqidd Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/30/2021 at 1:30 PM, Focslain said: That kind of defeats the moral of the story, at least the one the movie was telling. You needed those two for 4 to work, otherwise you have just a pure reboot film. Granted if that is what you want then ok, but that wasn't the point of 4. Expand There wasn't a point of #4 other than a cash grab. My suggestion is making a movie with a point. Not a reboot, soft reboot, etc. A continuation of the Matrix story. -End of Matrix 3 Neo and Trinity die. -Machine civil war happens. One side is with the humans, one side is old school machine totalitarianism. -Machine/totalitarianism side keeps as many people in the Matrix as it can. It stops using humans as batteries (always a soft idea anyway) because they figured out another power source. It starts using the humans (specifically their brains) in the Matrix as "computing power" because it's more economical/more powerful/more flexible/bla/bla/bla than using their own purely machine based systems. -New movie tackles the problem of wanting to get everyone out of the Matrix with most of them wanting to stay in because they would rather be "sheeple" (Facebook, Twitter, IG, etc). The overall story would be about individualism vs group think (kind of like Evangelion in a way). -Fresh new cast. -Call backs to Neo/The One, etc. It sounds more like 2-3 movies to cover all that. But isn't that what Hollyweird is looking for anyway? To me the above sounds like a great way to continue the franchise without retconning the original at all. Quote
sqidd Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/30/2021 at 2:12 AM, sketchley said: This echoes some of my sentiments about the sequel Star Wars trilogy. And we all know how that turned out. Maybe it's for the best if the company is making a business decision to not make any more 'Matrix' films? Expand A fair point. But, they screwed Star Wars because they took a big steaming dump on everything that came before it, the new story wasn't interesting (it was almost a copy of the original) and they went WAY out of their way to squeeze as many line items from "The Message" as possible. The new Star Wars stuff felt more like a vehicle to carry an ideology then an attempt at making something entertaining. Quote
Focslain Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/30/2021 at 1:58 PM, sqidd said: Not a reboot, soft reboot, etc. A continuation of the Matrix story. Expand And yet you just wrote out the plot of the first movie with a change to the energy bit. Sure you just don't want a reboot, cause it sure sounds like it. Besides they go over the energy bit in this movie, basically they are using emotions to up the power, much like how the net works currently. You get more out of a knee-jerk emotional response then thru a logical thought out one. Quote
sqidd Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/30/2021 at 2:41 PM, Focslain said: And yet you just wrote out the plot of the first movie with a change to the energy bit. Expand No I didn't Quote
jenius Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 Watched it last night. All of the sequels have been really bad so I had low expectations other than that there would be some good spectacle. I was a little surprised by how soft the plot was... instead of "save the world" it was "find my girlfriend." Granted, that's a perfectly valid plot for plenty of movies, but after a bunch of "save all of humanity" stuff, it took a lot of punch out of it and sort of spoke to the whole movie's watered-down nature and sometimes invented conflict. There was some spectacle though so... I'm not ANGRY I watched it. Reveal hidden contents Oh no, blue-haired girl is in trouble with Niobe... oh don't worry, there will literally be zero consequences and we're just saying she's in trouble to create drama. NPH was fine but I'm not really sure how he lost his advantage when "Smith" showed up. Swarm mode at least added something new to the same run and fight scenes we've now been through so many times. The ending actually made me cringe. Starting at the Mary Poppins point onward... all of it is so cringe. Even the Rage Against the Machine cover at the end is soooo cringe. Really lets you walk out of the theater with a bad taste in your mouth. Quote
Focslain Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/30/2021 at 4:05 PM, sqidd said: No I didn't Expand Had to re-think and I retract my earlier statement. Doing the first film for Cypher's point of view would change enough of the themes to make it a different movie. Quote
Keith Posted December 30, 2021 Posted December 30, 2021 It's an epilogue movie that essentially covers all the MZ23 Part III stuff that the first III movies didn't. The plot is essentially: - The hero didn't win, he just stopped everyone from being killed. - The hero has now become part of the system as the price for his previous actions - The system still doesn't trust humanity, but there's a bit of progress. - The heroine is still trapped in the system, let's get her out. - Big cyber heist. This is literally the plot of MZ23 PIII. In fact we can now clearly break it down to: The Matrix = Megazone 23 Part I The Matrix Reloaded & Revolutions = Megazone 23 Part II The Matrix Resurrections = Megazone 23 Part III (seriously, even the videogame thing). Notable differences of course being that Neo is rescued while Shogo died as Wong Dai & was replaced as "Sector 7G Operator" by Eji (as Bugs really should have replaced Neo).Trinity has become a hybrid of Eve & Yui. All in all, I'm fine with Ressurections, as I was expecting it to be closure to the story of "The One" and "Trinity." I'm not mad at Waxhowski going back & giving them a "good end", and really, 60 years is too short a span of time for things to have gotten significantly better. The only thing I myself would really change is the unceremonious off-screen death of "The Oracle." Since we had 2 Smith's (Smith Smith & Morpheus Smith), I would have preferred Morpheus Smith to be the Oracle in disguise. Quote
TangledThorns Posted January 1, 2022 Author Posted January 1, 2022 Welp, waited to finally see it in the theater for NYE date night. It was silly and we wonder where their budget really went to for the movie. Catering? That being said, I think modern Hollywood movies made me realize why I love anime. Anime has a lot more exciting originality than what is dumped by Hollywood with their constant sequels and reboots. On a side note my wife wants to dress like Lexy so I guess that's a win 😍 Quote
Alex GS Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 (edited) as a Super Fan of all three past Matrix movies at the end of this new one I was like : Edited January 1, 2022 by Alex GS Quote
Scyla Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 I had no intentions of seeing this movie sind part 2 and 3 were super letdowns (and I understood what the architect was saying…. I think). But after I saw the RLM review of it and they said the movie is like Gremlins 2 with its critique of the Hollywood system I stopped the video and decided I have to watch it before I can continue the review. Quote
TangledThorns Posted January 1, 2022 Author Posted January 1, 2022 (edited) According to Wiki there is no future plans for Matrix which doesn't surprise me. This seems like a love letter to the fans similar to Serenity and Firefly. However, what wouldn't surprise me is WB bringing back Matrix as a series, live action and/or animated, to their HBO Max streaming. The Matrix is a very strong IP and could be made well with the right person at the helm. Just not a Wachowski bro/sis please. Edited January 1, 2022 by TangledThorns Quote
M'Kyuun Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 (edited) On 1/1/2022 at 1:45 PM, TangledThorns said: According to Wiki there is no future plans for Matrix which doesn't surprise me. This seems like a love letter to the fans similar to Serenity and Firefly. However, what wouldn't surprise me is WB bringing back Matrix as a series, live action and/or animated, to their HBO Max streaming. The Matrix is a very strong IP and could be made well with the right person at the helm. Just not a Wachowski bro/sis please. Expand I'd be down with more AniMatrix style side stories; the world itself is open to all sorts of storytelling, and that's fertile ground for exploration. As to Resurrections: I think the film will exist longer and have more impact for its not-so-subtle commentary on the state of fandom, Hollywood and WB specifically, video gaming, and the expectations and banality of it all, than for the more lackluster love story that comprises the second half of the film. I think the middle finger we see on Neo's shelf alongside all his Matrix toys and collectibles was purposeful, and a reflection of at least Lana's feelings. Reveal hidden contents The lack of Hugo Weaving and Lawrence Fishburn, whose iconic characters are now played by younger lesser-known actors, make you appreciate those original performances so much more. The incredible action scenes which really defined the look and feel of the first three films is toned down greatly; there are a few scenes where Neo uses his power, and we still get punches that knock chunks of wall or pillars out, but overall, the fighting is toned down to about tv levels. The resurrection of Neo and Trinity is explained by the Analyst (think lower-level Architect, as he still answers to someone above him) as the pair have a certain je ne sais quoi that imparts more energy to the Matrix, benefitting the Matrix so long as Neo and Trinity exist together, but aren't together as a couple where their combined energies are dangerous to the Matrix. So, the Analyst, played by a wonderfully supercilious Neil Patrick Harris, creates his own little pocket of the Matrix called a Modal, and in a Frankensteinien move, repairs their corpses and brings them back to life in adjacent pods conveniently sequestered from the rest of the human pods. Once Neo's awakened and freed, the rest of the film is concerned with freeing Trinity, which includes some weird swaptronics with Trinity's consciousness into another user named Bugs and vice versa in order to mask Trinity's rescue from her pod. Yeah, it's as weird as it sounds. Once freed, Trinity, who's been living life as a happily married mother of two under the name Tiffany, begins to regain her old self, and of course the pair go to have an in-person chat, so to speak, with the Analyst, who explains his reasoning for bringing them back and giving them separate lives, but keeping them in enough contact to maintain the energy that they provide to the Matrix. Chase ensues, and instead of multiple agents tracking them down, the Analyst engages the everyday people living in the Matrix through a Swarm mode, which essentially turns them into mindless zombies who will go so far as to hurl themselves out of skyscraper building windows to human bomb the street below in an attempt to crush Neo and Trinity on Trinity's Ducati. Neo can't fly anymore (must not have had the budget for cranes) so he uses his power to create forcefields with his hands to catch/deflect the thousands of rounds of ammo being spewed at them. Towards the end, the pair end up on top of a building, and with nowhere left to go, they make a fateful leap where in a turn of fate, Trinty can fly now, and she prevents Neo from falling. At the end, Neo has regained his power, and the pair fly off together. Unlike Revolutions, it gives the audience its happy ending where the heroes literally fly off into the digital sunset. I think I prefer the more dour ending of Revolutions where, like Wrath of Khan, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one (or two if you count Trinity) and it ends in sacrifice for the betterment of all involved. As Matrix movies go, this one is the least Matrix-y; It feels very half-hearted, and I think the commentary at the beginning of the film says a lot about Lana's frame of mind towards the fandom, the studio, and just the nature of pop culture. Making something incredibly successful and game-changing is a double-edged sword; the benefits of such a success, both critically and financially, must be unimaginably gratifying, but on the other side, there's always the expectation to up the ante, to better it somehow, regardless of medium. Add to that the capricious, fickle, and often unkind nature of humanity, and success becomes a bit of a burden to replicate the original's success without simply retreading. From the subtext of Thomas Anderson's conversation with his boss, Warner was going to make the film with or without the Washowski's involvement, and I think Lana, although reluctant, decided to do it so that she could at least make it per her vision rather than someone else's. It's notable that only Lana was involved; Lilly seems to have stayed out of it entirely, which is a little sad considering it's an amazing franchise that they created together. Alas it's done, and hopefully it'll stay that way. But, the option of doing side stories remains intriguing, and hopefully something along those lines will come to pass, much as Star Wars has been doing. The world of the Matrix is far too interesting to let it go dormant, and there are a lot of talented story-tellers out there who can wring a good tale or two out of it yet. Edited January 1, 2022 by M'Kyuun Quote
jenius Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 On 1/1/2022 at 8:00 AM, Scyla said: I had no intentions of seeing this movie sind part 2 and 3 were super letdowns (and I understood what the architect was saying…. I think). But after I saw the RLM review of it and they said the movie is like Gremlins 2 with its critique of the Hollywood system I stopped the video and decided I have to watch it before I can continue the review. Expand Honestly, you can watch just the last 5 minutes of this and it all gets summed up pretty nicely. Quote
sketchley Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 On 1/1/2022 at 7:12 PM, jenius said: Honestly, you can watch just the last 5 minutes of this and it all gets summed up pretty nicely. Expand I've noticed that in their past reviews: it's like a meeting with no one in the driver's seat, and they're always going off on tangents. Not saying it's not informative, but lots of other things to do, you know? Quote
pengbuzz Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 I think a better title at this point would be The Matrix: Regurgitations. Quote
jenius Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) On 1/3/2022 at 1:18 AM, pengbuzz said: I think a better title at this point would be The Matrix: Regurgitations. Expand That might have had some punch before nearly every critical review dubbed it the same thing. Edited January 3, 2022 by jenius Quote
sqidd Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 1:18 AM, pengbuzz said: I think a better title at this point would be The Matrix: Regurgitations. Expand The Matrix: Dalastnailinthecoffin Quote
pengbuzz Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 3:05 AM, jenius said: That might have had some punch before nearly every critical review dubbed it the same thing. Expand Ah...didn't read any of their reviews. Well, at least we're all on the same page. Quote
renegadeleader1 Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 I'm visiting my brother for the holidays and I've spent a lot of time visitimg the movie theater while there and this has to be one of the worst things I have ever seen to the point I have nothing but utter contempt for it and I'm glad it's bombing worse that pearl harbor. Spiderman No Way Home and The King's Man as uneven as it was, was so much better than this trash. Quote
pengbuzz Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 3:16 PM, renegadeleader1 said: I'm visiting my brother for the holidays and I've spent a lot of time visitimg the movie theater while there and this has to be one of the worst things I have ever seen to the point I have nothing but utter contempt for it and I'm glad it's bombing worse that pearl harbor. Spiderman No Way Home and The King's Man as uneven as it was, was so much better than this trash. Expand On that note: I wonder if we'll get any Kingsmen sequels? Quote
Dynaman Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 7:02 PM, pengbuzz said: On that note: I wonder if we'll get any Kingsmen sequels? Expand I read somewhere they are working on one. Quote
tekering Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 12:12 AM, Dynaman said: I read somewhere they are working on one. Expand Correct. As to Resurrections, the parallels with Star Wars continue as we judge reactions from the fandom. The first film was universally acclaimed, and -- while audiences were initially unsure of how to respond to the sequels -- the original trilogy is golden in comparison to the mess than the fourth film turned out to be, 22 years later. If this trend continues, Disney will have acquired the rights and produced a new (and even more reviled) Matrix trilogy by 2040... Quote
seti88 Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) On 1/4/2022 at 3:42 AM, tekering said: Correct. As to Resurrections, the parallels with Star Wars continue as we judge reactions from the fandom. The first film was universally acclaimed, and -- while audiences were initially unsure of how to respond to the sequels -- the original trilogy is golden in comparison to the mess than the fourth film turned out to be, 22 years later. If this trend continues, Disney will have acquired the rights and produced a new (and even more reviled) Matrix trilogy by 2040... Expand So..in the next matrix there will be a person who will be able to see the matrix codes in walls.....cos they are the grandkids of neo... because they were born to see it... No pill popping required. 😄 Edited January 4, 2022 by seti88 Quote
kajnrig Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 I dunno if the Star Wars comparisons are apt... For one thing, it seems fairly obvious to me that the meta commentary wasn't just for show, and neither of the Wachowskis thought this sequel was a project worth pursuing. Or rather, they - like many fans - agreed that there didn't need to be a sequel to the original trilogy. When presented with "this sequel is happening with or without you," Lana Wachowski decided frakk it, they're gonna force a sequel, I'll at least get what I want out of it. And what she wanted was a love letter slash final send-off to her recently(?) deceased parents. Neo and Trinity, to her, are stand-ins for her parents, so she gave them the happy ending that she wants to believe in for her parents, and literally everyone else's desires could go frakk themselves, for lack of a better term. It's kind of impressive, really, her managing to rope in her entire industry on said $200+ million love letter. It's doubly so for being a scathing criticism of that very industry as well, or at least of its obsession with zero originality and nostalgia- and sequel-chasing. Do I think it's a good film? Not really. But I respect the hell out of the filmmakers for sticking to their convictions. Quote
TangledThorns Posted January 4, 2022 Author Posted January 4, 2022 So... I gave the film another watch and on HBO Max this time. I thought it was better the second time, still not as good as it should have been though the actors did save it. I'll give credit to WB making it a streaming movie and IMHO their movies are way better than what is on other streaming networks. I still think The Matrix is salvageable and WB should use the IP to make new movies, a series (animated, live, and/or both), games, etc. They should not involve the Wackowskis beyond advisor roles though. Quote
Dynaman Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) > Or rather, they - like many fans - agreed that there didn't need to be a sequel to the original trilogy. Not the trilogy, there was no need, or room, to make a sequel to the original film. They had to nerf the original ending of the first movie to make the second two even possible. That would have been fine if they were good movies but neither one was. Star Wars on the other hand left off in a spot rife for a continuation AND the second movie was the best of the lot. Edited January 4, 2022 by Dynaman Quote
kajnrig Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 5:32 PM, Dynaman said: Not the trilogy, there was no need, or room, to make a sequel to the original film. Expand You could say the same thing about Star Wars. I disagree that it was "rife for a continuation." Star Wars works as a fully standalone product and indeed WAS a fully standalone product before being re-badged "Episode IV: A New Hope," and it didn't "need" a sequel. ...but I get your meaning. The sequel films definitely aren't as good as the original, but they do continue the original's trend - a pattern also repeated by the fourth film - of basically being a blank check for the Wachowskis to explore whatever currently strikes their fancy. Philosophy obviously is a big thing that all four films have indulged in. Wire-fu and anime. CGI and special effects in the two sequels... And what the Wachowskis wanted to explore this time around, inasmuch as there's anything at all, is the very nature of a Matrix sequel, one that doesn't need and doesn't WANT to be made but which is BEING FORCED to be made. If it feels like they're halfing the ass out of it, that's because they almost assuredly are, to a certain degree. Of course, intentionally bad is still bad and all. It's a very cynical movie, this one, but it doesn't shy away from its cynicism. It doesn't try to hide it. It lays it all out there in the open, saying, "This is nothing more or less than exactly what you wanted." Who the "you" is... well... 🤔 Quote
Dynaman Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 6:11 PM, kajnrig said: You could say the same thing about Star Wars. I disagree that it was "rife for a continuation." Star Wars works as a fully standalone product and indeed WAS a fully standalone product before being re-badged "Episode IV: A New Hope," and it didn't "need" a sequel. ...but I get your meaning. Expand Here is the difference. At the end of The Matrix Neo had won, COMPLETELY. They had to make that into something considerably less ground shaking to make a sequel to it. Practically acting like it didn't mean squat. Star Wars, the Death Star was destroyed but Darth Vader was still there and the Empire was just as strong after the Death Star was destroyed as it was before it was completed. Quote
kajnrig Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 Eh... We'll have to agree to disagree there. Again, I get your meaning. Regardless, the comparison that I was responding to in particular framed Resurrections as the Phantom Menace of the Matrix films in terms of fan feedback, which is kind of... eh... maybe...? I don't remember TPM getting a particularly negative reaction right out the gate, but then again I was a dumb kid at the time too distracted by the twirly whirly laser swords to pay attention to the fandom's reaction. I know the general consensus nowadays is that it's the weakest of the prequel trilogy, but I can't really fathom the reasons why because I think the second movie is easily the weakest, and I don't care enough to revisit those movies to refresh my memory of them and re-assess my opinion. But anyway, I thought the fan reaction to TPM was pretty even to positive in the immediate aftermath of its release, whereas the reaction to Resurrections has been pretty solidly negative across the board, with some finding more to like in the meta commentary than others. Thus, not the greatest of comparisons. Quote
Thom Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 I liked it. Yes, it felt a bit softer than the previous movies, but I appreciate that it was more about Neo and Trinity getting their 'happy ending' rather than save a humanity (again) level of seriousness. Done it and seen it. I also prefer happy ending rather than dour or bittersweet ones. And the ending itself felt like it was right back at the end of the first movie, leaving it open to 'possibility' without any need to actually explore it any further. Quote
sqidd Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 3:04 PM, TangledThorns said: So... I gave the film another watch Expand You're a braver man than me. Quote
TangledThorns Posted January 5, 2022 Author Posted January 5, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 11:52 PM, sqidd said: You're a braver man than me. Expand Haha, I should have mentioned the movie cost us about $100 since we saw it at a Alamo Drafthouse. Their food an drinks ain't cheap! Quote
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