Macross Delta Zettai Live!!!!!! - Available on Blu-ray Sept 28, 2022

[no3Ljm]

12 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Ah , forgot that one.. thanks !

Mirage Farina Jenius.  

 

[Bolt]

Ya. I know she's a Jenius, but I wasn't sure she was another daughter or granddaughter. Thanks though  🙂

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Goodness Milia got an expy on  Tenchi Muyo! just for that.

Nah... Milia Jenius and Airi Masaki have nothing in common except green hair and the extremely common cliché of a "middle aged" woman being sensitive about her age.

Spoiler

Airi Masaki, at least, has more justification for being sensitive about her age... age being a weird topic in Tenchi Muyo! at the best of times.

She's basically the young one of the lot in her peer group at only 727 years old when she first appeared.  Despite that, she has two grandkids, one of whom is over 80.  Her close friend and colleague, GXP Academy headmistress Mikami Kuramitsu, is at least five thousand years old.

 

 

2 hours ago, RedWolf said:

We know at least Max writes letters to Mirage in Delta Mini-Theatre asking for Walkure signatures.

Considering Macross 7 PLUS, we should probably be thankful he didn't just show up so Walkure (and maybe Messer and Arad) could squee over him...

 

 

1 hour ago, deathzealot said:

Hmmm.... Yes. They mention it during Delta that Mirage is the granddaughter of Milia and Max. That is why she ended up leaving NUNS as people were expecting her to be like her Grandparents and she couldn't handle that pressure.

Not just like her grandparents... the Jenius family has a reputation, and it's more than just Max and Milia holding it up.

It's anyone's guess if Komilia joined the military the way she did in the Macross II timeline.  There's the adopted daughter Moaramia who became a New UN Spacy Special Forces top ace and Therese who is alleged to have operated under a paper-thin pseudonym as the leader of the paramilitary organization Vindirance that won the Second Unification War and became the founder of the regulatory bureau that oversees the Special Forces.  Then, of course, there's Mylene and her fame as a member of Sound Force.

It's real easy to feel bad for Mirage.  Her famous grandparents aren't just basically military royalty, they created several major military institutions and all but founded the New UN Spacy Special Forces as a whole, and were the top scoring aces of the biggest space war ever.  In modern terms, it'd be like joining the Air Force if your grandparents were Tetsuzō Iwamoto and Ilmari Juutilainen.  At least two, more likely three or more, of her sisters are war heroes and ace pilots.  People would expect great things.  It's not surprising that she cracked under pressure like that.

[Keith]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's a great soundtrack as you'd expect from a Macross movie.

My hopes for the film story itself are not so high, though.

I've actually warmed up to Delta on my recent second watch. While there definitely are far too many shortcuts taken with moving the story along vs character depth, the overall setting & Windemere thing got me thinking.

- Roid being able to use the Protoculture ruins + Star Singer +  Fold Receptors + Fold Bacteria to hack all PC species into a Vajra styled network seems to be the intended function of those ruins & Star Singer. Hell, the rune's & short life spans of the Wibdemere(ians?) may truly have been an intention to use them as a control mechanism of said system. Which brings me to...

- Do we know if the Protoculture faction that setup & ran in the Globular Cluster was separate from the faction that created the Evil series in the Varuta system? And, is there a time frame on either project in relation to the other? I ask because creating the Evil Series always seemed like a heavy handed answer taking our their oppositions Zentradi (even before they were powered up by the Protodevelin). However, if creating the Evil was in direct response to fighting against being hive-minded, the OP nature of what they made makes a lot more sense.

- Is it more than (Proto) culturally that the Mayan origin story shares the same relationship that Windemere & Ragna does? Arkan/Song of the Wind, Sara/Heinz, both having an incredibly similar concept of "Kadun" (is that confirmed to be a Protoculture word?), more than re-using concepts between shows, I'm starting to think there is a big picture story buildup involved. Do we know if the AFOS & creation of the Mayan island people happened in relation to the Protoculture City being left on Earth (as the DYRl plates seem to be suedo canon)

Spoiler

The baby

Introduced at the end of Absolute Live may have bigger ramifications than 

Spoiler

Simply recreating a Star Singer/Mikumo

that could play out with PC lore in future stories. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Keith

[Bolt]

Very interesting ideas...there does seem to be connections being drawn together. One must wonder if an even bigger event than than we've seen , thus far, will occur..

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, Keith said:

- Roid being able to use the Protoculture ruins + Star Singer +  Fold Receptors + Fold Bacteria to hack all PC species into a Vajra styled network seems to be the intended function of those ruins & Star Singer.

That much is pretty much directly stated in the series itself.

It's also a point explicitly touched on by Kawamori in his interview in Great Mechanics G's Winter 2016 issue.  As he explained it, the Protoculture intended to use the massive delta wave system they constructed across the Brisingr globular cluster to direct their own development towards a Vajra-like state. 

 

19 minutes ago, Keith said:

Hell, the rune's & short life spans of the Wibdemere(ians?) may truly have been an intention to use them as a control mechanism of said system. Which brings me to...

That much is also covered in the interview.

Per Kawamori's answer to the question, the throne in the Temple of the Stars was the control center of the network and would normally have been occupied by the King.  He goes on to note that Roid was able to occupy the throne instead because he was from a family of priests.  The way the answer is structured seems to suggest that the Protoculture may have tailored certain bloodlines of Windermereans to maintain and operate their overly-complex gizmo the way they did for the Birdhuman they left on Mayan.

 

19 minutes ago, Keith said:

- Do we know if the Protoculture faction that setup & ran in the Globular Cluster was separate from the faction that created the Evil series in the Varuta system? And, is there a time frame on either project in relation to the other? I ask because creating the Evil Series always seemed like a heavy handed answer taking our their oppositions Zentradi (even before they were powered up by the Protodevelin). However, if creating the Evil was in direct response to fighting against being hive-minded, the OP nature of what they made makes a lot more sense.

Given that the ancient Protoculture are said to have put aside their internal conflicts to present a united front against the Protodeviln and Supervision Army, that distinction likely hadn't been a thing for millennia by the time the Brisingr cluster became the last enclave of the Protoculture.

The Brisingr globular cluster is theorized in-series to have been the last place the Protoculture settled before going extinct, which could potentially put thousands or even tens of thousands of years between those two events.  The problem is, it's all literal ancient history.

The Evil series were meant to be game-changers.  Superweapons to break the virtual stalemate between the two factions in the Protoculture's Stellar Republic dissolution conflict.  They're overkill deliberately, but then... they were intended to fight whole Zentradi fleets and win.  Given the extent of the Cold War parallels, think of them as being any of the lots and lots of completely ridiculous game-changers that were intended to secure victory in our Cold War.

 

19 minutes ago, Keith said:

- Is it more than (Proto) culturally that the Mayan origin story shares the same relationship that Windemere & Ragna does? Arkan/Song of the Wind, Sara/Heinz, both having an incredibly similar concept of "Kadun" (is that confirmed to be a Protoculture word?), more than re-using concepts between shows, I'm starting to think there is a big picture story buildup involved.

Eh... there is and there isn't?

With few exceptions, each new Macross title has added a little bit to the Protoculture's lore.  Looking at it in reverse order for clarity's sake:

• Macross Delta established what the Protoculture's ideal societal endgame looked like - evolving into a Vajra-like state of harmonious existence through a group mind - and how they intended to achieve it.
• Macross Frontier established where they got the idea in the first place - the Vajra - and where they acquired the means to achieve it.
• Macross Zero established the Protoculture's overwhelming fixation on how their civilization collapsed and their determination to prevent history from repeating itself by any means necessary.
• Macross 7 established the historical factors and circumstances surrounding the internal schisms that would ultimately cause the Protoculture to destroy themselves.
• Macross II established that the Protoculture's veneration of their own culture and traditions made them dangerously self-obsessed and fueled their desire for war.
• Macross: Do You Remember Love? established that the Protoculture weren't immediately wiped out, and that some of them survived and fled their civilization's collapse and tried to start again and learn from their mistakes.
• Super Dimension Fortress Macross established that the Protoculture were an ancient race who liked to play god and were ultimately destroyed by their own creations due to their hubris.

It doesn't really seem to be building to anything in particular... we're just getting an ever-closer look at how this race of ancient abusive precursors destroyed themselves and tried to amend their mistakes before dying out.  (Which makes them smarter than like 80% of sci-fi abusive precursors simply by realizing they absolutely bollocks'd up.)

 

19 minutes ago, Keith said:

Do we know if the AFOS & creation of the Mayan island people happened in relation to the Protoculture City being left on Earth (as the DYRl plates seem to be suedo canon)

Those two things happen in different versions of the past... so not really, no?

That's the problem with broad strokes continuity leading to a multiple choice past. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Keith said:

  Hide contents

baby

Introduced at the end of Absolute Live may have bigger ramifications than 

  Hide contents

Simply recreating a Star Singer/Mikumo

that could play out with PC lore in future stories. 

It wouldn't be the first possibly-Protoculture lifeform left lying around... Mina Forte's still around, for one.

If you buy DYRL?'s take, all Zentradi and Meltrandi are genetically Protoculture.

[kajnrig]

43 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

If you buy DYRL?'s take, all Zentradi and Meltrandi are genetically Protoculture.

wait what

When/where was this? I need to rewatch all the classics again (or maybe it's best I don't...), because I could swear they were just weapons created by the PC and they envied humanity because it seemed to them (the Zen/Mel) that they (humanity) were the PC's chosen inheritors...

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It doesn't really seem to be building to anything in particular... we're just getting an ever-closer look at how this race of ancient abusive precursors destroyed themselves and tried to amend their mistakes before dying out. 

Along those lines , perhaps not. But as emigrant fleets expand and push further into the Galaxy. And as certain key players keep pushing their own agendas. Getting more and more mixed up in the ancient Protoculture seems to keep happening . Ultimately this may lead to a larger event than we've seen , thus far. Speculation, of course. But we shall see . 

[Keith]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Along those lines , perhaps not. But as emigrant fleets expand and push further into the Galaxy. And as certain key players keep pushing their own agendas. Getting more and more mixed up in the ancient Protoculture seems to keep happening . Ultimately this may lead to a larger event than we've seen , thus far. Speculation, of course. But we shall see . 

As long as we get old man Basara at some point, I'm cool.

[Bolt]

LOL  That would be awesome !

[pengbuzz]

21 minutes ago, Keith said:

As long as we get old man Basara at some point, I'm cool.

Mylene visits Basara in the hospital after he throws out his back at a Fire Bomber concert. 🤣

His newest hit: Totsugeki Sore Back

[RedWolf]

 

Moa went civilian after her last mission. A journey to find herself. Well her last mission involved facing a clone of hers.

I can see why the NUN banned clonning under treaty after they had a sizable starting population. The Stray Zentradi are literally using children to fight their war for them. Which makes me wonder if Ariel Jiffon in MF is another clone of Moa.

 

As for the relation between the Protoculture there is an implication the ones in the Brisi gr Cluster is related to Altira.  Berger Stone's presentation showed Star Singers over Altira. The Song of the Stars had bits of Do You Remember Love song in the original Protoculture language. There is also the implication the Protoculture would leave women that will procreate with the natives. Roy Waka came from the blood of the Bird Human coming from its neck when it's head separated from its body. The head is a cockpit. The Nomes has the same super rare blood type as the Bird Human. And they've passing around Fold Quartz earrings for generations. Unlike most of Terran humanity they kept their Space-Time Resonance Ability which is another way of saying the Fold Receptor Factor. The special ability of Terrans is to regenerate life-force with songs. Gepelnitch got excited over this as they never noticed the Protoculture do that. Basically guys like the Nomes and Basara are energy boosters with their songs. Fold wave System is a natural direction towards systems similar to the Bird Human and Evil Series. Meanwhile the Windermereans got their royalty supposedly descended from the Star Singer. Unlike Terrans they sing too hard they wither quicker. Further reducing their lifespan. So the Nome and Windermere families are hereditary bloodlines connected to systems left behind by the Protoculture. The Protoculture did leave Mina Forte to secure Fold Evil in the Fold fault. Just that she was an amnesiac. 

Oh while the Protoculture Stellar Republic sounds nice it is also known as the Galactic Empire. The SR tried to centrally govern the galaxy but even with Fold Quartz not everyone will fall into line. Especially with a very well armed Galaxy churning out weapons left and right.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by RedWolf

[Keith]

17 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Mylene visits Basara in the hospital after he throws out his back at a Fire Bomber concert. 🤣

His newest hit: Totsugeki Sore Back

Nope, Basara is going to be rocking longer and harder than The Rolling Stones.

[pengbuzz]

11 minutes ago, Keith said:

Nope, Basara is going to be rocking longer and harder than The Rolling Stones.

Yeah, but Basara isn't pickled like Keith Richards!

Edited January 15, 2022 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, kajnrig said:

When/where was this? I need to rewatch all the classics again (or maybe it's best I don't...), because I could swear they were just weapons created by the PC and they envied humanity because it seemed to them (the Zen/Mel) that they (humanity) were the PC's chosen inheritors...

In DYRL?, the alternate version of Protoculture history and their civil war has the Protoculture divide along gender lines after cloning becomes the dominant form of reproduction and each side using that cloning technology to create giant clones to fight their war for them.

As the Minmay Attack starts, Vrlitwhai and Exsedol muse on the possibility that they could regain culture after 500,000 years without it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Along those lines , perhaps not. But as emigrant fleets expand and push further into the Galaxy. And as certain key players keep pushing their own agendas. Getting more and more mixed up in the ancient Protoculture seems to keep happening . Ultimately this may lead to a larger event than we've seen , thus far. Speculation, of course. But we shall see . 

Granted, it seems like the Protoculture buried the products of their mad science under every other tree... but, if anything, we've seen that the New UN Government is getting more and more genre savvy about the threat they pose and simply bombing them out of existence with dimensional warheads rather than take the chance.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Keith said:

As long as we get old man Basara at some point, I'm cool.

I wonder... would he end up a dried-out Keith Richards rock-and-roll mummy or a bedraggled-and-confused ex-rocker type like Axl Rose or Ozzy?

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

I can see why the NUN banned clonning under treaty after they had a sizable starting population.

Those are two different clone bans.

One was a blanket ban on cloning for military purposes.

The other was a permanent discontinuation of a widespread cloning program intended to shore up the human population because of increased incidence of recessive genetic disorders.

 

18 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

As for the relation between the Protoculture there is an implication the ones in the Brisi gr Cluster is related to Altira.  Berger Stone's presentation showed Star Singers over Altira.

This, of course, assumes Berger drew his visuals from historical records somehow and not the popular dramatizations of historical events mentioned mere moments earlier.

Or that there was only one emigrant ship of that type.

You're drawing a very specific conclusion from impossibly vague evidence.

 

18 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Roy Waka came from the blood of the Bird Human coming from its neck when it's head separated from its body. The head is a cockpit.

Two problems with your hypothesis.

First, time.  The Protoculture went extinct hundreds of thousands of years ago.  The Birdhuman's previous activation that became the basis for the Mayan myth happened only tens of thousands of years ago according to Macross Chronicle.

Second, it's noted that the Birdhuman is capable of independent thinking... and that it decapitated itself.

 

18 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

The Nomes has the same super rare blood type as the Bird Human. And they've passing around Fold Quartz earrings for generations. Unlike most of Terran humanity they kept their Space-Time Resonance Ability which is another way of saying the Fold Receptor Factor. The special ability of Terrans is to regenerate life-force with songs.

Because their ancestors were a purpose-built lineage of priestesses designed and genetically-programmed by the Protoculture to maintain and operate the Birdhuman.

As noted in my last post, there is a vague implication in Kawamori's interview that the Kingdom of the Wind's royal family and the families of the hereditary priesthood were made along similar lines to operate the Star Shrine.

 

18 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Gepelnitch got excited over this as they never noticed the Protoculture do that.

Gepernich literally got defeated the first time by a group of Protoculture who could do that exact thing.

He was excited because he found one he could potentially harness for his spiritia farm project.

[Keith]

39 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 wonder... would he end up a dried-out Keith Richards rock-and-roll mummy or a bedraggled-and-confused ex-rocker type like Axl Rose or Ozzy?.

Probably closer to Keith Richards or Jeff Beck. Or Mayhaps he's gone more Bowie, experimenting in other genres.

42 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

Gepernich literally got defeated the first time by a group of Protoculture who could do that exact thing.

He was excited because he found one he could potentially harness for his spiritia farm project.

Correct, I get the impression that The Protoculture just bluntly hammered the Protodevelin into submission with song. Basara on the other hand taught them to sing "with", and generate their own Spiritia.

Which now begs the question, was the Song Energy system fold quartz based, and were Fire Bomber just strong in fold receptors? Since Delta pointed out humanity is increasing in the number of those who have receptors, it's not unlikely. I'm also starting to wonder if Gubaba's species with their seemingly empathic abilities are related to or an early experiment for what would become runes. Possibly an attempt to replicate the abilities if larval Vajra.

And yes, I know I'm digging hard into retconing Delta into earlier series. But, it's strangely consistent. Kawamori may just be very adept at midiclorianing the franchise.

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Second, it's noted that the Birdhuman is capable of independent thinking... and that it decapitated itself.

Imagine this giant space god looks at you, and at everything around you, sighs in defeated resignation, mutters "I'm so tired of this crap," and casually pulls its own head off.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, Keith said:

Probably closer to Keith Richards or Jeff Beck. Or Mayhaps he's gone more Bowie, experimenting in other genres.

Honestly, I see Basara ending up more like Ozzy... an aging rocker who just completely and categorically fails to give a damn at any given point.

 

7 minutes ago, Keith said:

Correct, I get the impression that The Protoculture just bluntly hammered the Protodevelin into submission with song. Basara on the other hand taught them to sing "with", and generate their own Spiritia.

To be completely fair, the Protoculture had a lot less time to be high-minded about it with the Protodeviln's unchecked rampage threatening them with extinction.

Basara was lucky enough to encounter Gepernich after he developed the idea of "farming" spiritia as a renewable resource.

 

7 minutes ago, Keith said:

Which now begs the question, was the Song Energy system fold quartz based, [...]

According to Macross Chronicle, the Sound Energy System was a modified super dimension converter taken from a fold system.

It would have contained high quality synthetic fold carbon.

 

7 minutes ago, Keith said:

and were Fire Bomber just strong in fold receptors?

Macross Chronicle does state that spiritia is a type of biological fold wave... so presumably yes.

 

7 minutes ago, Keith said:

Since Delta pointed out humanity is increasing in the number of those who have receptors, it's not unlikely.

Given that humanity had only just started looking for people with these abilities among the regular population a few years before, I'm inclined to wonder if it isn't more a matter of humanity getting better at identifying individuals with these abilities using medical testing instead of discovering the incredibly rare ones who land themselves in a position where their abilities expose themselves.

 

7 minutes ago, Keith said:

I'm also starting to wonder if Gubaba's species with their seemingly empathic abilities are related to or an early experiment for what would become runes. Possibly an attempt to replicate the abilities if larval Vajra.

... scratch the "seemingly".  The Macross 7 LD liner notes and Macross Chronicle both assert that Gubaba's species (Gyararashi) have empathic abilities.

Whether it's something they evolved naturally or something they were engineered with is unclear.

Personally, given that they're shown to be pretty darn low on the food chain on their home planet, I'm inclined to suspect they're either naturally evolved with that ability or maybe an invasive species of engineered pet the Protoculture created that turned out to be easy prey for the local predators.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Imagine this giant space god looks at you, and at everything around you, sighs in defeated resignation, mutters "I'm so tired of this crap," and casually pulls its own head off.

Not gonna lie... I've had workdays like that too.

... and just like that, I'm sympathizing with a giant biotechnological horror's disappointment in humanity.  

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Honestly, I see Basara ending up more like Ozzy... an aging rocker who just completely and categorically fails to give a damn at any given point.

And we end up with a Fleet-televised reality sitcom: The Basaras.

Nekki keeps yelling: "MYLENE!"

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not gonna lie... I've had workdays like that too.

... and just like that, I'm sympathizing with a giant biotechnological horror's disappointment in humanity.  

That seems to be fairly common in any field involving computers and tech...

*Hands Seto a Rum and Coke*

[RedWolf]

While Gubaba is a thing. The Zolans have Cat-Snakes who for some reason not only can talk to their Zolan owner but also read ancient writing! No mention of Protoculture ruins or relics at Zola but it has been determined the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-Class hull was based on Galactic Whales form. 

[Keith]

10 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

While Gubaba is a thing. The Zolans have Cat-Snakes who for some reason not only can talk to their Zolan owner but also read ancient writing! No mention of Protoculture ruins or relics at Zola but it has been determined the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-Class hull was based on Galactic Whales form. 

Makes you wonder if Ai kun wasn't an isolated incident, with the Protoculture looking for ways to engineer their own empathic pets so they wouldm't havevto risk of summoning Vajra murder swarms wanting their larva back. Then just finally deciding "screw it, we're making runes."

[Keith]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Honestly, I see Basara ending up more like Ozzy... an aging rocker who just completely and categorically fails to give a damn at any given point.

You'll see, Basara will have the most epic cameo, literally eclypsing Isamu & Max's recent appearance!

[Bolt]

I can see the Fire Bomber YF-29 ..😜

[RedWolf]

41 minutes ago, Keith said:

Makes you wonder if Ai kun wasn't an isolated incident, with the Protoculture looking for ways to engineer their own empathic pets so they wouldm't havevto risk of summoning Vajra murder swarms wanting their larva back. Then just finally deciding "screw it, we're making runes."

Sea Cats are a thing on Ragna. On Zola they have Cats that do not have primordial pouches but marsupial pouches! Voldor is plain Cat People. 

[Keith]

4 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Sea Cats are a thing on Ragna. On Zola they have Cats that do not have primordial pouches but marsupial pouches! Voldor is plain Cat People. 

You forgot the giant cats from Frontier.

[charles88]

19 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's real easy to feel bad for Mirage.  Her famous grandparents aren't just basically military royalty, they created several major military institutions and all but founded the New UN Spacy Special Forces as a whole, and were the top scoring aces of the biggest space war ever.  In modern terms, it'd be like joining the Air Force if your grandparents were Tetsuzō Iwamoto and Ilmari Juutilainen.  At least two, more likely three or more, of her sisters are war heroes and ace pilots.  People would expect great things.  It's not surprising that she cracked under pressure like that.

 

Yeah well sure Mirage not as good pilot as her other family but as movie 2 shows Max and Arad realized that Mirage actually REALLY good at 1 skill that even better than Arad and Max

 

Spoiler

Turn out that Mirage is an EXCELLENT squadron Leader and 100-x better than her grandfather at that. Max even admits that Mirage are very good as a squadron leader during a test run on VF-31 AX and during the final battle, Mirage able to coordinate and strategize tactic on the fly with the squadron on how to defeat Sv-303 army and it works perfectly. If you think about it, throughout Macross, series despite Max is the best Ace in Macross verse, he actually a TERRIBLE squadron leader as he tend to break formation and fly alone to defeat enemy on his own and find his worthy opponent. That why Roy Fokker is leader despite Max being the better pilot. And after Fokker's death Hikaru takes over Squadron leader instead of Max as Hikaru is a better squadron leader.

 

It takes a lot of years to Max mostly break his lone wolf habit and finally become the leader as he becomes captain of both Macross ship. Although he still tends to fly on his own.

What you dont trust japan impression and feed back obn Delta movie 2. And you still haven't respond on Movie 2 debunk Lady M is evil and villain.

Edited January 15, 2022 by charles88

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, charles88 said:

That why Roy Fokker is leader despite Max being the better pilot. And after Fokker's death Hikaru takes over Squadron leader instead of Max as Hikaru is a better squadron leader.

Fokker was squadron leader because he literally had years more experience and rank above Max. Regardless how good a pilot you are, you don't magically become squadron leader above someone like Roy. That's basic military protocol. 

[Natchapon chaikul]

25 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Fokker was squadron leader because he literally had years more experience and rank above Max. Regardless how good a pilot you are, you don't magically become squadron leader above someone like Roy. That's basic military protocol. 

Don't forget about  Edgar LaSalle  we don't know his status or has relationships with Claudia that we didn't know

[Natchapon chaikul]

8 hours ago, Keith said:

You'll see, Basara will have the most epic cameo, literally eclypsing Isamu & Max's recent appearance!

And gamlin kizaki, i think he might be promoted to take command of garrison fleet at colonized macross 7 and having mylene flare married

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

That seems to be fairly common in any field involving computers and tech...

Really, any engineering discipline at all.

I am endlessly floored by the number of people with college degrees who can't do basic math.

 

11 hours ago, RedWolf said:

While Gubaba is a thing. The Zolans have Cat-Snakes who for some reason not only can talk to their Zolan owner but also read ancient writing! No mention of Protoculture ruins or relics at Zola but it has been determined the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-Class hull was based on Galactic Whales form. 

It's pretty well established the Zolans are a sub-Protoculture species like all the other humanoids in the galaxy.

 

11 hours ago, Keith said:

Makes you wonder if Ai kun wasn't an isolated incident, with the Protoculture looking for ways to engineer their own empathic pets so they wouldm't havevto risk of summoning Vajra murder swarms wanting their larva back. Then just finally deciding "screw it, we're making runes."

Eh, those two things don't even necessarily have to be linked.  We're talking about a crazy civilization with total mastery of genetic science and an endless fascination with the Vajra that Macross Chronicle suggests was the true origin of their advanced technology.  It may have been nothing more than a desire for a fancy designer pet intelligent enough to not sh*t all over the place.  Goodness knows irresponsible breeders today spend terrifying amounts of effort creating designer pets with little or no regard for the consequences.

 

5 hours ago, charles88 said:

What you dont trust japan impression and feed back obn Delta movie 2. And you still haven't respond on Movie 2 debunk Lady M is evil and villain.

As wildly inaccurate as your posts have been, there really isn't anything to respond to... like the quotation below. 😉 

And no, I don't trust thirdhand reports about Japanese audiences opinions of the movie either.

 

5 hours ago, charles88 said:

If you think about it, throughout Macross, series despite Max is the best Ace in Macross verse, he actually a TERRIBLE squadron leader as he tend to break formation and fly alone to defeat enemy on his own and find his worthy opponent. That why Roy Fokker is leader despite Max being the better pilot. And after Fokker's death Hikaru takes over Squadron leader instead of Max as Hikaru is a better squadron leader.

 

To quote Luke Skywalker: "Amazing.  Every word of what you just said was wrong."

... did you forget that rank, seniority, and the chain of command exist?

Max's record as a squadron leader is exemplary.  He commanded a New UN Spacy Special Forces squadron for a decade before moving on to commanding escort warships in a relatively typical trajectory for a modern fighter pilot.

Roy Focker - and yes, the correct spelling is "Focker" - was the commanding officer of the SVF-1 Skulls because he was the ranking officer.  His rank was Major (OF-3).  He was also Commander of the Air Group as the most senior officer among the embarked squadrons from his airwing.  

Hikaru Ichijo also outranked Max for pretty much the entire original series.  When Max and Hayao were assigned to the SVF-1 Skulls they were both Corporals (OR-4) and Hikaru was a Sergeant (OR-5) who had just been granted a commission and the rank of 2nd Lieutenant (OF-1) and command of Vermilion Platoon.  He had been promoted once more to 1st Lieutenant at the time Roy died and was assigned to lead the squadron based on seniority and availability.  He was later promoted to Captain (OF-2).  Around that time, Max also got a commission to 2nd Lieutenant (OF-1), so he was still outranked by Hikaru and under him in the chain of command.

Even if they were the same rank, Hikaru's greater seniority due to his longer term of service at that rank would have put him above Max.

 

 

2 hours ago, Natchapon chaikul said:

And gamlin kizaki, i think he might be promoted to take command of garrison fleet at colonized macross 7 and having mylene flare married

It's a popular fan theory, though there are a LOT of people ahead of him in the chain of command given that he finished Macross 7 at the rank of Captain (OF-2).  He's got another three ranks minimum and a lot of seniority to accrue before he could attain a posting like command of a Battle-class or a New UN Forces defense force.

(Max himself seems to have been on the low end there, commanding the fleet as the most senior Colonel.  Most of them seem to be Brigadier Generals or higher.)

Edited January 15, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[RedWolf]

1 hour ago, Natchapon chaikul said:

And gamlin kizaki, i think he might be promoted to take command of garrison fleet at colonized macross 7 and having mylene flare married

Going by Macross 7th Code Gamlin is in charge of Sound Force as its director. If there is any place where Fold Receptor Factor users can be found its Macross 7 as it is basically already an institution. I imagine Macross 7 veterans are consultants when it comes to Song Energy. Miho Miho was assigned on the Special Forces ship Valhalla III which was equipped with Sound Energy systems. The dress of the Milky Dolls are just more compact version of Basara's Song Energy Converter harness. By the time of Walkure their Fold Amp is their brassiere. 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

The dress of the Milky Dolls are just more compact version of Basara's Song Energy Converter harness. By the time of Walkure their Fold Amp is their brassiere. 

It's not the same technology... the fold amps used by the Tactical Sound Units are an outgrowth of Dr. Lawrence's research into dimensional resonance, developed by his protégé Elma Hoyly.  You could say they're related technologies, but they're not the same.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Really, any engineering discipline at all.

I am endlessly floored by the number of people with college degrees who can't do basic math.

Likewise. Back when I was in school, if you flunked basic math, you didn't even graduate high school. Makes me wonder on a lot of levels, but that would lead into convos that would probably attract the ire of the mods.

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh, those two things don't even necessarily have to be linked.  We're talking about a crazy civilization with total mastery of genetic science and an endless fascination with the Vajra that Macross Chronicle suggests was the true origin of their advanced technology.  It may have been nothing more than a desire for a fancy designer pet intelligent enough to not sh*t all over the place.  Goodness knows irresponsible breeders today spend terrifying amounts of effort creating designer pets with little or no regard for the consequences.

Just look at the Arabian horse breeders for a major example: they had inbred their horses so badly, that the slight "dishing" on the muzzle became grossly exaggerated and the breed began looking deformed facially. We won't even get into the puppy mills that churn out sick, lame or poor animals with genetic disorders and diseases.

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Roy Focker - and yes, the correct spelling is "Focker" - was the commanding officer of the SVF-1 Skulls because he was the ranking officer.  His rank was Major (OF-3).  He was also Commander of the Air Group as the most senior officer among the embarked squadrons from his airwing.  

Yeah, I recall in both RT and SDFM that Roy was the air wing head. Would that have been considered CAG (I know you probably mentioned it before, but I'm a little dim on recollection at the moment)?

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hikaru Ichijo also outranked Max for pretty much the entire original series.  When Max and Hayao were assigned to the SVF-1 Skulls they were both Corporals (OR-4) and Hikaru was a Sergeant (OR-5) who had just been granted a commission and the rank of 2nd Lieutenant (OF-1) and command of Vermilion Platoon.  He had been promoted once more to 1st Lieutenant at the time Roy died and was assigned to lead the squadron based on seniority and availability.  He was later promoted to Captain (OF-2).  Around that time, Max also got a commission to 2nd Lieutenant (OF-1), so he was still outranked by Hikaru and under him in the chain of command.

Even if they were the same rank, Hikaru's greater seniority due to his longer term of service at that rank would have put him above Max.

He was pretty much there from the beginning of their trip back from Pluto (servicewise). I'm not sure how long he was a civilian aboard the Macross  before Hikaru joined UN Spacy, but it probably wasn't all that long. And I'm not too certain of how long it would take to train him; I think it's 16 weeks in the today's military just for boot camp, then several more weeks for piloting. But due to the state of emergency they were in, it could have been compressed, plus his previous piloting experience probably would have factored in.

In Max's case, I don't know if he had any flight experience prior to joining UN Spacy. But given his talent and intellect....

...he probably read a book, tossed it on a table and got 5 kills on his first sortie.

(no, I'm not serious!)

Edited January 15, 2022 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

21 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Likewise. Back when I was in school, if you flunked basic math, you didn't even graduate high school. Makes me wonder on a lot of levels, but that would lead into convos that would probably attract the ire of the mods.

True that.

One can imagine the New UN Forces probably understand the Birdhuman's distress only too well after dealing with Xaos's unwillingness to cooperate in any meaningful manner until it's way too late.

 

21 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Yeah, I recall in both RT and SDFM that Roy was the air wing head. Would that have been considered CAG (I know you probably mentioned it before, but I'm a little dim on recollection at the moment)?

The title of CAG (Commander, Air Group) in Macross is used mostly how it was used circa World War II.

Put simply, it's a title and an accompanying administrative role given to the squadron leader with the highest rank (or the most seniority, if two or more have the same rank) among the squadrons embarked on an aircraft carrier.  The CAG serves as the overall leader of all of the embarked squadrons and as a administrative department head for the squadrons who reports directly to the ship's captain.  (Basically, if you're the most experienced squadron leader you get rewarded with extra paperwork and meetings.)

Arad Molders is presumably the CAG of the Macross Elysion, or occupies some similar title since Xaos seems to organize its forces as an Air Force rather than the fleet-based Space Forces of the NUNS.

 

21 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

In Max's case, I don't know if he had any flight experience prior to joining UN Spacy. But given his talent and intellect....

Even if he didn't have experience beforehand, he logged over 300 hours of simulator time before being assigned to the SVF-1 Skulls Vermilion platoon.

Normally, the flight school is like three year program IIRC.  

(Kinda makes it shocking how undertrained Hayate is, with less than a month of combined training not just for flying a Valkyrie but hand-to-hand combat, tactics, and everything else...)