Macross Delta Zettai Live!!!!!! - Available on Blu-ray Sept 28, 2022

[charles88]

When I read, is that true Battle 7 appear in movie 2

[Gendo Koun]

10 minutes ago, charles88 said:

When I read, is that true Battle 7 appear in movie 2

unclear, due to translation issue. Just wait till it come overseas 

[charles88]

Well if spoiler are true, then congratualtion Seto, you insulted and demonise Lady M aka

 

Spoiler

Megaroad 01 aka most of cast of First Macross cast like Misa, Hikaru and Minmay. And years of question we finally found answered and recently you demonise them, calling them true villain of entire Macross verse

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by charles88

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, charles88 said:

Well if spoiler are true, then congratualtion Saito, you insulted and demonise Lady M aka

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Megaroad 01 aka most of cast of First Macross cast like Misa, Hikaru and Minmay. And years of question we finally found answered and recently you demonise them, calling them true villain of entire Macross verse

 

 

If the spoilers are true, the writing is bad enough that you're gonna see me say a lot worse when I finally get my hands on this movie.  I really hope the writers came up with a better plot than what this sounds like.

The writing in Delta was substandard from the outset but these hopefully incorrect spoilers make it sound like it ought to be retitled Absolute Trainwreck!!!!!!.  

[Gendo Koun]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If the spoilers are true, the writing is bad enough that you're gonna see me say a lot worse when I finally get my hands on this movie.  I really hope the writers came up with a better plot than what this sounds like.

The writing in Delta was substandard from the outset but these hopefully incorrect spoilers make it sound like it ought to be retitled Absolute Trainwreck!!!!!!.  

Ooof, but I like the visual but not CGI characters scenes 

[Dressykamila1]

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Jeśli spoilery są prawdziwe, pisanie jest na tyle złe, że zobaczysz, jak mówię o wiele gorzej, kiedy w końcu dostanę w swoje ręce ten film. Naprawdę mam nadzieję, że scenarzyści wymyślili lepszą fabułę niż to, jak to brzmi.

Pisanie w Delcie od samego początku było poniżej standardu, ale te miejmy nadzieję, że niepoprawne spoilery sprawiają, że brzmi to tak, jakby powinno zostać przemianowane na Absolute Trainwreck!!!!!!.

Most Japanese say that it is qualitatively as good as Sayonara no Tsubasa

[charles88]

I read review, reviewer say Delta Movie 2 are as good as Frontier Movie 2 whom consider as one of best Macross movie.

The way you write as if you salty that you always villfied Lady M and now you found out their true identity.

No wonder Max helping Xaos ASAP the moment he found out Heimdall plan to destroy Lady M

Well Delta Movie 2 has just answered decade long question that Macross fan has been asking

Spoiler

Where Megaroad 1? Answer: Lady M

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by charles88

[Gendo Koun]

5 minutes ago, charles88 said:

 

  Hide contents

.Where Megaroad 1? Answer: Lady M

 

+100 point to the movie plot 

[Seto Kaiba]

13 minutes ago, Gendo Koun said:

Ooof, but I like the visual but not CGI characters scenes 

That just seems to be the way that animation is headed when it comes to choreography-intensive stuff like idol performances.

You'll see a lot of that in contemporary idol anime like Zombie Land Saga and such.

 

 

2 minutes ago, charles88 said:

I read review, reviewer say Delta Movie 2 are as good as Frontier Movie 2 whom consider as one of best Macross movie.

I'm not sure that's exactly the glowing praise you're presenting it as, considering how few Macross movies there are.  

Sayonara no Tsubasa was pretty jumbled, but at least an entertaining watch because of the quality of the writing.

I have no doubt that this new movie will be beautifully animated, but if the writing is bad then no amount of beautiful animation will save it for me.  By the same token, I'll forgive bad or cheap animation in the name of a compelling or engaging story.

 

2 minutes ago, charles88 said:

The way you write as if you salty that you always villfied Lady M and now you found out their true identity.

Oh my, no... 

If the rumors being bandied about under spoiler tags here are true, I'll absolutely be annoyed... but not for that reason.  No, I'll be annoyed because 1. they ruined one of Macross's enduring mysteries in the stupidest way possible such that it actively undermines large swaths of the Macross setting and 2. because "Lady M" was objectively a criminal and known to be a source of government corruption now it would make those operating behind that identity culpable for those crimes and that corruption.

Spoiler

To give you a basic rundown,

For the Megaroad-01 to have never actually been missing all this time undermines a huge chunk of backstory involving emigrant fleets.  The New UN Government covered up the 1st Large Scale Long Distance Emigrant Fleet's disappearance in 2016 to avoid a panic and hesitancy about the Mankind Seeding Project.  If they knew where the fleet was and that the fleet was OK this whole time, there would have been no reason for the massive coverup.

Likewise, Macross Frontier - and probably Macross 30 as well - wouldn't have happened if the location and condition of the Megaroad-01 was known.  The reason that Zentradi business mogul Richard Bilra sponsored the titular emigrant fleet's mission was to acquire the resources he needed to continue his research on breaking through fold faults so he could go tearing off across the galaxy looking for Minmay and the Megaroad-01.  He wouldn't have had to do that if everyone (or at least those with amazing connections) already knew where the were and that they'd been running a megacorp of their own by interstellar conference call.

Lastly, Lady M broke the law a BUNCH in Macross Delta.  Putting aside questionable cases like Lady M's interference in New UN Forces operations and basic refusal to order Xaos to cooperate with the NUNS, there's:

• Hayate's father, Wright Immelmann, was acknowledged in both the series and previous movie to have burglarized a Windermerean holy site to steal Star Singer DNA samples at Lady M's request.
• On Lady M's orders, Xaos conducted explicitly illegal cloning experiments to produce the clone soldier Mikumo Guynemer for Tactical Sound Unit Walkure.  Mikumo's creation violated interstellar law.
• On Lady M's orders, Xaos also kept their illegal clone soldier as a virtual slave, granting her only the minimum education needed to do her job, having no ability to make her own life choices, policing her strictly controlled socialization, as acknowledged by Mikumo herself in the series.
• Lady M directly interfered with the defense of the Brisingr globular cluster by acting to hinder the New UN Forces, delaying evacuation orders that resulted in civilians on Ragna being injured or potentially killed in the detonation of the reaction warhead meant to destroy the ruins there. 
• Lady M is sponsoring unlawful combatants who are fighting in a war between Windermere IV and the New UN Government.  The illegality of this, and Xaos's ineligibility for the space equivalent of the Geneva Convention as a result, is specifically remarked on in the TV series.

So if Lady M really is the crew of the Megaroad-01... then congrats, our heroes from the original series have officially lived long enough to become villains guilty of some Hobby Lobby-style importing of stolen cultural artifacts, illegal cloning, borderline slavery or at least child abuse of their illegal clone soldier, breaches of the laws of war by fielding unlawful combatants, etc. etc.  It's also possible Lady M's manipulation of Wright Immelmann played a role in his dropping the dimension eater on Carlisle, meaning they may also be indirectly responsible for the wartime atrocity that caused Windermere's 2067 invasion of the Brisingr cluster in the first place.

That. Would. SUCK.

MIGHTILY.

The most erect of dick moves directed at beloved characters from the original series.

It would actually make it kind of understandable why this other organization wants to find and eliminate them.

 

[pengbuzz]

28 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That just seems to be the way that animation is headed when it comes to choreography-intensive stuff like idol performances.

You'll see a lot of that in contemporary idol anime like Zombie Land Saga and such.

 

 

I'm not sure that's exactly the glowing praise you're presenting it as, considering how few Macross movies there are.  

Sayonara no Tsubasa was pretty jumbled, but at least an entertaining watch because of the quality of the writing.

I have no doubt that this new movie will be beautifully animated, but if the writing is bad then no amount of beautiful animation will save it for me.  By the same token, I'll forgive bad or cheap animation in the name of a compelling or engaging story.

 

Oh my, no... 

If the rumors being bandied about under spoiler tags here are true, I'll absolutely be annoyed... but not for that reason.  No, I'll be annoyed because 1. they ruined one of Macross's enduring mysteries in the stupidest way possible such that it actively undermines large swaths of the Macross setting and 2. because "Lady M" was objectively a criminal and known to be a source of government corruption now it would make those operating behind that identity culpable for those crimes and that corruption.

  Hide contents

To give you a basic rundown,

For the Megaroad-01 to have never actually been missing all this time undermines a huge chunk of backstory involving emigrant fleets.  The New UN Government covered up the 1st Large Scale Long Distance Emigrant Fleet's disappearance in 2016 to avoid a panic and hesitancy about the Mankind Seeding Project.  If they knew where the fleet was and that the fleet was OK this whole time, there would have been no reason for the massive coverup.

Likewise, Macross Frontier - and probably Macross 30 as well - wouldn't have happened if the location and condition of the Megaroad-01 was known.  The reason that Zentradi business mogul Richard Bilra sponsored the titular emigrant fleet's mission was to acquire the resources he needed to continue his research on breaking through fold faults so he could go tearing off across the galaxy looking for Minmay and the Megaroad-01.  He wouldn't have had to do that if everyone (or at least those with amazing connections) already knew where the were and that they'd been running a megacorp of their own by interstellar conference call.

Lastly, Lady M broke the law a BUNCH in Macross Delta.  Putting aside questionable cases like Lady M's interference in New UN Forces operations and basic refusal to order Xaos to cooperate with the NUNS, there's:

• Hayate's father, Wright Immelmann, was acknowledged in both the series and previous movie to have burglarized a Windermerean holy site to steal Star Singer DNA samples at Lady M's request.
• On Lady M's orders, Xaos conducted explicitly illegal cloning experiments to produce the clone soldier Mikumo Guynemer for Tactical Sound Unit Walkure.  Mikumo's creation violated interstellar law.
• On Lady M's orders, Xaos also kept their illegal clone soldier as a virtual slave, granting her only the minimum education needed to do her job, having no ability to make her own life choices, policing her strictly controlled socialization, as acknowledged by Mikumo herself in the series.
• Lady M directly interfered with the defense of the Brisingr globular cluster by acting to hinder the New UN Forces, delaying evacuation orders that resulted in civilians on Ragna being injured or potentially killed in the detonation of the reaction warhead meant to destroy the ruins there. 
• Lady M is sponsoring unlawful combatants who are fighting in a war between Windermere IV and the New UN Government.  The illegality of this, and Xaos's ineligibility for the space equivalent of the Geneva Convention as a result, is specifically remarked on in the TV series.

So if Lady M really is the crew of the Megaroad-01... then congrats, our heroes from the original series have officially lived long enough to become villains guilty of some Hobby Lobby-style importing of stolen cultural artifacts, illegal cloning, borderline slavery or at least child abuse of their illegal clone soldier, breaches of the laws of war by fielding unlawful combatants, etc. etc.  It's also possible Lady M's manipulation of Wright Immelmann played a role in his dropping the dimension eater on Carlisle, meaning they may also be indirectly responsible for the wartime atrocity that caused Windermere's 2067 invasion of the Brisingr cluster in the first place.

That. Would. SUCK.

MIGHTILY.

The most erect of dick moves directed at beloved characters from the original series.

It would actually make it kind of understandable why this other organization wants to find and eliminate them.

 

I could never see the originals even considering doing that.

[Dressykamila1]

Spoiler

one thing interests me.  Did this battle astrea belong to any fleet?  that would sound great - Macross Astrea.  I wouldn't be surprised if the government was behind it because they had reasons to want to take down Lady M, especially since the enemies in this movie knew that the megaroad had disappeared in a so-called dark hole.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

9 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

I could never see the originals even considering doing that.

I know, right?

Spoiler

Especially Misa, she was INCREDIBLY straight-laced. The things Lady M gets up to would be abhorrent to her.

 

[Dressykamila1]

Information about Sheryl and Alto

Spoiler

despite of being 8 years in coma, she still did not regain consciousness, and Ranka sang with her through the ruins of Protoculture.  From what can be seen on the trailer, they very much resemble earthly buildings from the Middle Ages (maybe some part of the protocol was mixed up with people? Haha).  According to the descriptions on the blog, Alto does not return, but only a beam of light indicates his location

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Dressykamila1

[Seto Kaiba]

9 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

Information about Sheryl and Alto

  Hide contents

despite of being 8 years in coma, she still did not regain consciousness, and Ranka sang with her through the ruins of Protoculture.  From what can be seen on the trailer, they very much resemble earthly buildings from the Middle Ages (maybe some part of the protocol was mixed up with people? Haha).  According to the descriptions on the blog, Alto does not return, but only a beam of light indicates his location

 

Now that's just depressing.

[Dressykamila1]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Now that's just depressing.

Spoiler

I followed Twitter at night and people reported that they cried on both videos, especially MF.Apparently there were also flashbacks.  Remember the scene in the trailer where both girls turn around and Alto and someone else are standing behind them?  Apparently the other person was Brera

 

[Yugure0]

Just got out of the evening show.  First impression-wise, I didn’t go in expecting too much after the first Delta movie… but I liked it!😄 Lots of stuff packed in, lots of action, a few surprises and payoffs. It came together reasonably well.  Applause and tears in the theater after the credits, so it seems to have gone over well with the Japanese fans.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Yugure0

[Dressykamila1]

from booklet.

[Seto Kaiba]

8 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

  Hide contents

I followed Twitter at night and people reported that they cried on both videos, especially MF.Apparently there were also flashbacks.  Remember the scene in the trailer where both girls turn around and Alto and someone else are standing behind them?  Apparently the other person was Brera

 

Kind of out of character for Macross as a whole, which tends to favor optimistic or outright happy endings.

I know I definitely prefer the happier TV series ending of Frontier and the implied happier movie ending version in Variable Fighter Master File where Sheryl is touring in the Macross Olympia fleet c.2064 and her SMS bodyguard detail contains a nod to her and Alto's birthdays.

[charles88]

Err I think you got some of your assumption on Lady M wrong such as:-

Spoiler

1. NUNS did not cover up Megaroad 1 location as Megaroad 1 can only give communication only to NUNS as they trap in dimensional fault and NUNS unable to pinpoint the exact location on where Megaroad 1 trap. It's only recently that Heimdall just found Megaroad 1 location and they have to use the most advanced Fold Quartz sensor technology and their own star singer clone to pinpoint the exact location of Megaroad 1 and pull it out from dimensional fault

2. In the movie Lady M DID NOT order of theft of Star singer cell, it was the rogue NUNS agent who did it, Wright and his Windermere friend Johan who happen to be a high priest fought the thief and recover the cell. Realize the danger of the rogue element try it again priest gives complete cell to Wright to which then give to Xaos and Lady M as he trusted them to make good use of Star singer.

3. Well Lady M did call Max to help Xaos after all

4. That NUNS in series plan to use Fusion bomb to blow up temple which did connect to the planet core and didn't even bother on talking about evacuation. Lady M has to step in to delay the deployment of WMD, not an evacuation. Turn out the bomb did not even work and only reveal the hidden structure of the ruin which corrupt NUNS officer's true goal all along.

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, charles88 said:

Err I think you got some of your assumption on Lady M wrong such as:-

No, I did not.

That all contact with Megaroad-01 was lost in July 2016 and that the New UN Government covered up the fleet's disappearance to avoid negative consequences for the humankind seeding plan has been a part of Macross chronology for quite some time.  You'll even find it mentioned in the official Macross encyclopedia Macross Chronicle's Mechanic Sheet for the SDF-2 Megaroad-01.

No such story regarding a rogue NUNS agent is told in the movie.  Roid only mentions the New UN Forces having stolen the Star Singer genetic material and handed those stolen materials over to Lady M.

Arad also specifically mentions that Lady M intervened to delay the timetable for the use of a reaction warhead to destroy the ruins, slowing the evacuation already in progress.  It doesn't matter that it didn't achieve the intended result, the point is Lady M's intervention put people at risk needlessly and ultimately gave the enemy a strategic advantage that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Max probably doesn't know about Lady M's... questionable... activities, or he'd probably join the forces attacking them just as he clandestinely backed Vindirance in the Second Unification War.

[charles88]

Like I say NUNS only able to communicate with them only but they did not know WHERE Lady M Locations is. Don t make assumption that NUNS knew where Lady M location is and cover up as Heimdall just found where Lady M is and they have to use latest technology to do it.

Also that Roid saying , in which he cannot be trusted. I already explain on Delta movie 2 where Johan, Wright best friend and high priest explain what really happen.

[Dressykamila1]

we will probably wait 5-6 months for the DVD versions, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, Dressykamila1 said:

we will probably wait 5-6 months for the DVD versions, right?

Thereabouts, yeah.

 

29 minutes ago, charles88 said:

Like I say NUNS only able to communicate with them only but they did not know WHERE Lady M Locations is.

But the existing material says there was no communication with them at all.

Fold communications, like fold jumps, can be traced.  If they were sending frequent communications, they should have been found easily even if they themselves didn't know where they were.

It's just bad writing... which is about all I expect from Delta.

 

[charles88]

20 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

we will probably wait 5-6 months for the DVD versions, right?

Unless Big West keep to their promise to screen internationally after whole Harmony Gold deal thing then we got  to watch movie earlier in cinema.

Seto , i think your bias has clouded your judgement toward Delta movie 2 (to the point you think that that obviously corrupt  happy trigger WMD NUNS officer are good guy.) The movie haven't out in US yet so please reserved your judgement on it. Even threader says Delta movie 2 are very well received.

Also we cant really trust outside material as recent Frontier short movie contradict magazine material concerning Sheryl and Alto fate after Frontier movie 2.

Also if there no communication at all, how Lady M able to communicate with Xaos and sponsor them.

I read that they trap dimensional Fault that constant shifting which why they end up in Windermere when they supposed went missing in center of Milky Way.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by charles88

[Seto Kaiba]

15 minutes ago, charles88 said:

Seto , i think your bias has clouded your judgement toward Delta movie 2 (to the point you think that that obviously corrupt  happy trigger WMD NUNS officer are good guy.)

I think this difference of opinion may stem more from you having missed a few key details watching the series, and flat-out ignoring gaping plot holes.

In the series, the New UN Forces actually knew about the danger and tried to preemptively deal with it... only for Lady M's fanboy Wright to screw it up.  They're not corrupt or evil, they're just bureaucratic and officious.  The end up being presented as mean-spirited because the show's Designated Heroes have to rebel against authority even if it puts all the people they're supposedly protecting at risk. 

I'm a very detail-oriented person, so I notice these things very quickly and it tends to puncture my immersion a bit.

 

15 minutes ago, charles88 said:

Also we cant really trust outside material as recent Frontier short movie contradict magazine material concerning Sheryl and Alto fate after Frontier movie 2.

The Frontier short is its own thing.  All I said with respect to that is that what's been said sounds incredibly depressing, and that I vastly prefer the implied or explicit happy endings from other versions of the material.

 

15 minutes ago, charles88 said:

Also if there no communication at all, how Lady M able to communicate with Xaos and sponsor them.

THAT'S THE PLOT HOLE.

Macross material has been consistent for decades on the topic of there having been no communication with the missing Megaroad-01 fleet.  It's mentioned directly on the official encyclopedia entry for the Megaroad-01, along with the fact that the government covered up their disappearance for fear that the news would crash the plans for future emigrant fleets.  Richard Bilra's secret agenda was developing the tools he needed to go looking for the missing and never-heard-from-since Megaroad-01.  For this film to suddenly decide they've been in communication with Earth the whole time running a megacorporation that's engaged in all kinds of questionable shenanigans and generally undermining the New UN Forces?  That's just... a gaping plot hole.  

(It's really problematic since, if Megaroad-01 had been in communication with the New UN Gov't and running a megacorp Richard Bilra would've certainly known it as a seriously influential megacorp CEO... which would've meant no reason to launch the Macross Frontier fleet and no reason to develop the YF-30 that became the VF-31 used in Delta by its protagonists.)

 

15 minutes ago, charles88 said:

I read that they trap dimensional Fault that constant shifting which why they end up in Windermere when they supposed went missing in center of Milky Way.

... that doesn't really make sense either, since fold faults are supposedly stationary phenomena.

The more you tell me, the more it feels like the writers really did not think this one through at all.

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I know, right?

  Hide contents

Especially Misa, she was INCREDIBLY straight-laced. The things Lady M gets up to would be abhorrent to her.

 

 

Spoiler

Exactly: in fact, neither Hikaru nor Misa would ever willingly go along with something like that.

Misa had a strong sense of duty instilled by her father, Admiral Takashi Hayase, who himself came from a family with a century-long tradition of military service. As for Hikaru, he detested killing, and has only done so due to the necessity of war. Also, he recognizes the essentials of duty, and while not as strait-laced as Misa, he would not be ready to throw that all away.

Given also the devastation both saw as witnesses of Earth's razing by Bodolza's armada, they would not regard living people so lightly as to enter the kind of dark plans "Lady M" is entangled with.

That said: Kaifun kinda looks like a lady, and it wouldn't be past him.... 😛

  

Edited October 8, 2021 by pengbuzz

[Dressykamila1]

in about 2-3 weeks I will have a booklet of this movie so I will be able to take precise pictures and share more informations 

[Seto Kaiba]

22 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

in about 2-3 weeks I will have a booklet of this movie so I will be able to take precise pictures and share more informations 

Nice.  Where'd you score it?  eBay? YJA Auctions?  I doubt they've hit Mandarake yet.

[jenius]

This argument about the way these characters SHOULD be acting based on how they were in SDF Macross are equally crazy to how they're described to be acting in the new movie. So, no harm no foul. 

[pengbuzz]

13 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nice.  Where'd you score it?  eBay? YJA Auctions?  I doubt they've hit Mandarake yet.

On that note: is dealing with Mandarake advisable? Been looking for a 1/3000 SDF-1 recently that won't require selling a vital organ...

[twich]

Curious, has there been any mechanical information sheets released on the:

VF-31AX kairos plus, Origins of SV-303, statistics? Is this the new Variable Fighter for New UN Spacy?

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

On that note: is dealing with Mandarake advisable? Been looking for a 1/3000 SDF-1 recently that won't require selling a vital organ...

I have had generally positive experiences dealing with Mandarake, barring one incident where my credit card flagged the international transaction as suspicious (which wasn't their fault, obviously).

 

1 minute ago, twich said:

Curious, has there been any mechanical information sheets released on the:

VF-31AX kairos plus, Origins of SV-303, statistics? Is this the new Variable Fighter for New UN Spacy?

None that I have seen.

The Kairos Plus appears to be another custom job like the Siegfrieds, albeit with a designation along similar lines to the VF-19EF Caliburn's suggesting it may be a more formalized custom spec based on a true production aircraft.  (This is purely speculative, pending detailed information.)

Smart money says the Sv-303 is another one of those models like the Sv-262 sold to non-New UN Forces customers by third party arms dealers.

[Dressykamila1]

22 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nice.  Where'd you score it?  eBay? YJA Auctions?  I doubt they've hit Mandarake yet.

YJA Auctions by zenmarket ☺️

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, Dressykamila1 said:

YJA Auctions by zenmarket ☺️

Duly noted.  I'll head there via my preferred proxy to see if I can't score a few for archival purposes.

[Dressykamila1]

2 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Duly noted.  I'll head there via my preferred proxy to see if I can't score a few for archival purposes.

I saw that someone had a booklet for sale with a clear file and threw in free fliers from the movie