Macross Delta Zettai Live!!!!!! - Available on Blu-ray Sept 28, 2022

[Thom]

I'd rather they had Mirage star in her own series, rather than playing third-fiddle. As stated above, I also wouldn't want her to be the kind of person who just bides her time, waiting for the winner of their little love triangle to pass on. That's kind of calculating and creepy.

As to Freyja, I hope they end of finding a way for her to survive with a longer lifespan.

[seti88]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

I'd rather they had Mirage star in her own series, rather than playing third-fiddle. As stated above, I also wouldn't want her to be the kind of person who just bides her time, waiting for the winner of their little love triangle to pass on. That's kind of calculating and creepy.

As to Freyja, I hope they end of finding a way for her to survive with a longer lifespan.

Mirage spin-off...she falls in love with a korean boy band member. And through the power of his song, she becomes an ace pilot.
But freya passes, and hayate wants to hook up with mirage again. 🤧

[Thom]

8 hours ago, seti88 said:

Mirage spin-off...she falls in love with a korean boy band member. And through the power of his song, she becomes an ace pilot.
But freya passes, and hayate wants to hook up with mirage again. 🤧

I would contend that she is already an ace pilot. 😀

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

I would contend that she is already an ace pilot. 😀

The series would disagree?  A big part of why Mirage quit the New UN Spacy and joined Xaos's PMC division was because she's only an average Valkyrie pilot with textbook skills and couldn't cope with the expectations of piloting genius placed on her because of her family's reputation in the military.

[Bolt]

Indeed. But perhaps she's just a late Genius bloomer..? Maybe this time her skills bloom..

[Thom]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The series would disagree?  A big part of why Mirage quit the New UN Spacy and joined Xaos's PMC division was because she's only an average Valkyrie pilot with textbook skills and couldn't cope with the expectations of piloting genius placed on her because of her family's reputation in the military.

Except that she's in a prestigious fighter squadron, supporting one of the biggest idol bands/sound units in the quadrant. I doubt she would get there with 'textbook' skills, much less be allowed to fly one of the hottest fighters around, and be considered one of the best in her outfit.

[azrael]

31 minutes ago, Thom said:

Except that she's in a prestigious fighter squadron, supporting one of the biggest idol bands/sound units in the quadrant. I doubt she would get there with 'textbook' skills, much less be allowed to fly one of the hottest fighters around, and be considered one of the best in her outfit.

Unfortunately Delta’s flight trainer, Messer, disagreed with that assessment. A person can be book-smart but lack that spark of improvisation and imagination that brings them up a level. That’s where Mirage is. 

[no3Ljm]

24 minutes ago, azrael said:

Unfortunately Delta’s flight trainer, Messer, disagreed with that assessment. A person can be book-smart but lack that spark of improvisation and imagination that brings them up a level. That’s where Mirage is. 

I think that was partially because Mirage got softer towards Hayate? That's why her performance kind of failed with Messer's standards.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by no3Ljm

[kajnrig]

I thought it was pretty clearly shown that she's an at least competent VF pilot on her own, and her "Jenius skill" just needs a dance partner, so to speak, to express itself.

I really wish this show, this setting, could have gone through another draft or two before production really kicked into gear. Or spread itself out over multiple seasons. There's interesting stuff there with all the characters - and Mirage especially - that could have been more fully explored.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

Except that she's in a prestigious fighter squadron, supporting one of the biggest idol bands/sound units in the quadrant.

The number of implicit asterisks in that one sentence is oddly impressive...

Delta Flight is never presented as a prestigious assignment.  It's a famous unit in the remote and sparsely populated Brisingr globular cluster, but that's because of its association with Walkure.  At the time of Episode 1's events, it's still a relatively new and untested unit that'd only been formed a year or so before and had never fought an enemy on or above its own level.  Depending on how you view Arad's departure from the NUNS, either three or all four of its members are pilots who couldn't hack it in the local defense forces.  Their newest recruit is effectively a rando whose only prior experience was driving a giant robot forklift and who was admitted despite skiving off his training at every opportunity.  The Xaos PMC division itself isn't exactly prestigious or exclusive either, being essentially the alternative for cost-conscious governments who can't afford SMS.

Their elite-ness is also strictly relative... they're better funded on a per-soldier level because they can fall back on the capital of their parent megacorp in lean times.  They have the latest gear for the same reason SMS did, they were hired to test the local government's next-gen fighter in live combat because they're contractually-expendable mooks that, in the event of their violent deaths, are legally recorded as having died in accidents rather than combat.  In a rare "reality ensues" moment late in the series, they're also acknowledged to be unlawful combatants in terms of the laws of war because they are not actually soldiers.  (That's right, our heroes are technically war criminals... not that Windermere's forces are any better, but these are supposed to be the good guys.)  They come off looking good because the local NUNS is underfunded and using outdated equipment due to its local economic difficulties, being about ten years behind the rest of the galaxy... to say nothing of how their own efforts to defend the cluster were hindered by the interference of Lady M at key points.

It's also really more of an aerobatics team than a proper fighter squadron.

For its part, Walkure is also a very new group who've only been around for about a year and a half at the start of the series.  They're not Galaxy Network chart-toppers like Sheryl Nome, Fire Bomber, or Sharon Apple.  They're a new idol group with regional popularity in an incredibly remote and isolated star cluster that is as far removed from the rest of the New UN Government's territory as it is physically possible to get without leaving the galaxy, to the extent that it has difficulty sustaining its economy.  They're also either the only Tactical Sound Unit in the cluster or one of a very small number (if Thrones are still operating in 2067).  Not so much a big fish in a small pond as a small fish in a solo cup.

 

1 hour ago, Thom said:

I doubt she would get there with 'textbook' skills, much less be allowed to fly one of the hottest fighters around, and be considered one of the best in her outfit.

Both Mirage herself and the unit's top pilot, Messer Ihlefeld, were pretty clear about her being a middling/average Valkyrie pilot whose textbook skills are adequate but nothing to write home about.

She's also not considered one of the best in her unit.  She's presented as competent, but otherwise the least proficient member of Delta Flight prior to Hayate joining... and he very quickly surpasses her.  Even Hayate drags her about her lacking performance in their first face-to-face meeting in episode 2.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[kajnrig]

38 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

She's presented as competent, but otherwise the least proficient member of Delta Flight

 

I didn't get that sense at all. (Granted, it's been a while and I haven't revisited the show since my initial viewing, but) I thought it was pretty clear that the Delta's intended hierarchy of fighter prowess was

- Arad (in terms of overall capability) / Messer (in terms of sheer prowess)
- Mirage (when "dancing") / Hayate (when "dancing")
- Mirage (when alone)
- Hayate (when alone)
- Chuck (just because his abilities as a pilot are never touched on)

with the implication that Mirage is capable of superseding everyone and living up to her family name if only she can get out of her own way and stop trying to live up to her family name.

...or that could be just me inferring things about her character that the show didn't have time to do.

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The number of implicit asterisks in that one sentence is oddly impressive...

...

Thank you!

I guess YMMV. I haven't watched the show in a while, but I definitely got the impression that she was pretty good. In head to head with Hayate, she was owning him until he pulled the catfish flip maneuver. She hit him two or three times, he hit her once. And she only seemed to improve as they were going along.

But, maybe that's because I'm a little infatuated...🤩

[Master Dex]

2 hours ago, Thom said:

Thank you!

I guess YMMV. I haven't watched the show in a while, but I definitely got the impression that she was pretty good. In head to head with Hayate, she was owning him until he pulled the catfish flip maneuver. She hit him two or three times, he hit her once. And she only seemed to improve as they were going along.

But, maybe that's because I'm a little infatuated...🤩

Yeah but that was like the 2nd time Hayate had ever flown. That's a really low bar lol.

I like Mirage a lot, but kinda because she's not the archetypical Jenius and would have to work harder for any skill, which so far she has proven she does not possess innately. There is a lot of potential character depth to explore there.... Not that Delta actually explores that much character depth in anyone.

She might be the poster child for "the enemy of being good is being perfect." I.e. she tries too hard to live up to a legacy of amazing pilots that she can barely break even.

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I didn't get that sense at all. (Granted, it's been a while and I haven't revisited the show since my initial viewing, but) I thought it was pretty clear that the Delta's intended hierarchy of fighter prowess was [...] with the implication that Mirage is capable of superseding everyone and living up to her family name if only she can get out of her own way and stop trying to live up to her family name.

...or that could be just me inferring things about her character that the show didn't have time to do.

As much as I like Mirage, the series never really gave me a sense that she had significant untapped potential.

She was the least senior and least experienced member of Delta Flight until Hayate showed up, and he surpassed her indecently quickly.  Messer definitely ranks Chuck above her in terms of skill, and actually tells her to her face that Chuck is more skilled in front of both Chuck and Hayate in episode 6 when he's taking them to task for not going for kill shots in live combat.

 

11 hours ago, Thom said:

I guess YMMV. I haven't watched the show in a while, but I definitely got the impression that she was pretty good. In head to head with Hayate, she was owning him until he pulled the catfish flip maneuver. She hit him two or three times, he hit her once. And she only seemed to improve as they were going along.

But, maybe that's because I'm a little infatuated...🤩

Mirage is probably my favorite character in the series - the only character for which I purchased any character goods - and for me it's actually part of her appeal that she's not the usual Jenius family untouchable top ace.  That she's actually bothered by failing to live up to those lofty expectations and has to sort of reassess her life goals makes more a more compelling character than many of the others in the series.

It's just a shame that she got benched halfway through the series in favor of focusing entirely on Freyja.

[NightmarePlus]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:01 PM, Spunky said:

Even though the tv series ending didn't pair Mirage with Hayate (I gather it's that obvious which side of the love triangle I always supported with that statement hehe), hopefully with this bit of spoiler alert above me and some established scenes between the two, Hayate/Mirage might happen in Zettai Live!!!!!!

To be honest i'd rather have Mirage end up with someone else rather than becoming Hayate's second choice. The girl deserves it.

[Thom]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As much as I like Mirage, the series never really gave me a sense that she had significant untapped potential.

She was the least senior and least experienced member of Delta Flight until Hayate showed up, and he surpassed her indecently quickly.  Messer definitely ranks Chuck above her in terms of skill, and actually tells her to her face that Chuck is more skilled in front of both Chuck and Hayate in episode 6 when he's taking them to task for not going for kill shots in live combat.

 

Mirage is probably my favorite character in the series - the only character for which I purchased any character goods - and for me it's actually part of her appeal that she's not the usual Jenius family untouchable top ace.  That she's actually bothered by failing to live up to those lofty expectations and has to sort of reassess her life goals makes more a more compelling character than many of the others in the series.

It's just a shame that she got benched halfway through the series in favor of focusing entirely on Freyja.

 

3 hours ago, NightmarePlus said:

To be honest i'd rather have Mirage end up with someone else rather than becoming Hayate's second choice. The girl deserves it.

Here here! I'd love to have a series focused on her.

[Einherjar]

Got a good feeling at least one of my predictions from the show is gonna be right by the end of this movie.

[Bolt]

Throw enough against the wall. Something might stick 😉

I predict more DECULTURE 💫

[wmkjr]

Mirage honors the Jenius lineage it seems going by her emblem. Kinda like the Jenius air logo.

 

Spoiler

 

[twich]

So, I might be having an early onset senior moment, but did the big announcement from a week or so ago include the release date of the new Macross Delta Movie?  Did it include when the Macross Frontier thing was releasing?

Thanks,

Twich

[NightmarePlus]

Now i'm wondering who exactly did Xaos pissed off enough to get a YF-29 sent after them

[Seto Kaiba]

On 7/10/2021 at 1:39 AM, twich said:

So, I might be having an early onset senior moment, but did the big announcement from a week or so ago include the release date of the new Macross Delta Movie?  Did it include when the Macross Frontier thing was releasing?

No specific date given, AFAIK.

The most recent trailer we've all been chewing over says 2021年 秋 公開 ("Showing in Autumn 2021").

 

7 minutes ago, NightmarePlus said:

Now i'm wondering who exactly did Xaos pissed off enough to get a YF-29 sent after them

Given that it's in Hayate's signature sky blue, it probably wasn't sent after them... though Xaos has certainly done enough to warrant the scrutiny and prosecutorial attentions of the New UN Government, since Xaos were unlawful combatants in the Windermere conflict (being a mercenary outfit) and Mikumo is acknowledged openly to be an illegal clone that's created from religious relics stolen from Windermere IV at Lady M's behest.

[Bolt]

Lady M,s YF-29 stash..?

who else is going to have one of those lounging around?

Edited July 12, 2021 by Bolt

[NightmarePlus]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Given that it's in Hayate's signature sky blue, it probably wasn't sent after them... though Xaos has certainly done enough to warrant the scrutiny and prosecutorial attentions of the New UN Government, since Xaos were unlawful combatants in the Windermere conflict (being a mercenary outfit) and Mikumo is acknowledged openly to be an illegal clone that's created from religious relics stolen from Windermere IV at Lady M's behest.

Man i really hope that's not going to be the case and that it just belongs to a New UN Special Forces group that just happens to have similar colors to Hayate's VF-31s

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

who else is going to have one of those lounging around?

Apart from the first prototype the Macross Frontier fleet produced and loaned to the local SMS branch, the only known operator of the YF-29 to date has been one of the Independent Squadrons of the New UN Spacy VF-X Special Forces.  

[Bolt]

Yes. But ,unless this is a repaint , we have a new heavy hitter on the field..

[kajnrig]

Perhaps it's a VF-29, a scaled-back production model that doesn't cost several moderately-wealthy countries' GDPs to make. Emphasis on scaled-back.

Edited July 13, 2021 by kajnrig

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

Yes. But ,unless this is a repaint , we have a new heavy hitter on the field..

2 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Perhaps it's a VF-29, a scaled-back production model that doesn't cost several moderately-wealthy countries' GDPs to make. Emphasis on scaled-back.

Unlikely, IMO.

After all, what was the Xaos Valkyrie Works VF-31 Custom "Siegfried" if not a heavily economized YF-29 equivalent?  Most of its upgrades were tech pinched from the YF-29.  It used a detuned version of the FF-3001/FC2 engine that was a productionized version of the YF-29's engines, and a detuned reduced capability version of the fold wave system and fold wave amplifier systems that used less fold quartz.  Why go to a completely different aircraft for what you already had?

The picture will no doubt clear up some once we get some info on this VF-31AX Kairos Plus and learn why Xaos seems to have abandoned its Siegfrieds and taken its custom efforts in a direction more in line with the base VF-31A Kairos.

[Master Dex]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Unlikely, IMO.

After all, what was the Xaos Valkyrie Works VF-31 Custom "Siegfried" if not a heavily economized YF-29 equivalent?  Most of its upgrades were tech pinched from the YF-29.  It used a detuned version of the FF-3001/FC2 engine that was a productionized version of the YF-29's engines, and a detuned reduced capability version of the fold wave system and fold wave amplifier systems that used less fold quartz.  Why go to a completely different aircraft for what you already had?

The picture will no doubt clear up some once we get some info on this VF-31AX Kairos Plus and learn why Xaos seems to have abandoned its Siegfrieds and taken its custom efforts in a direction more in line with the base VF-31A Kairos.

Actually maybe that's it... Maybe they cut the Siegfried's and gathered the fold quartz together to make a YF-29 and thus have to drop down to the 31AX model for standard use while they set up one super unit?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

Actually maybe that's it... Maybe they cut the Siegfried's and gathered the fold quartz together to make a YF-29 and thus have to drop down to the 31AX model for standard use while they set up one super unit?

An interesting possibility... but, if what Kawamori and co. put together for Master File is anything like accurate, that wouldn't/shouldn't work.

What I've read on the matter suggests that the efficacy of fold quartz is relative to the size of the fold quartz crystal being used and that certain levels of purity are required in the fold quartz crystals for certain technologies.  For instance, the YF-29's fold wave system is acknowledged to require multiple 1000 carat pieces of fold quartz at a very high level of purity... both of which mean you essentially need to go hunt a Vajra Queen or Semi-Queen to get it.  Master File's description of the VF-31 Siegfried's fold wave system and fold amps talks a bit about them having been designed to minimize the amount of fold quartz needed, and to use smaller pieces of fold quartz than the YF-29 required.  Theoretically, they shouldn't be able to reuse the fold quartz from the Siegfrieds in the YF-29 because the crystals aren't big enough.

[NightmarePlus]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

An interesting possibility... but, if what Kawamori and co. put together for Master File is anything like accurate, that wouldn't/shouldn't work.

What I've read on the matter suggests that the efficacy of fold quartz is relative to the size of the fold quartz crystal being used and that certain levels of purity are required in the fold quartz crystals for certain technologies.  For instance, the YF-29's fold wave system is acknowledged to require multiple 1000 carat pieces of fold quartz at a very high level of purity... both of which mean you essentially need to go hunt a Vajra Queen or Semi-Queen to get it.  Master File's description of the VF-31 Siegfried's fold wave system and fold amps talks a bit about them having been designed to minimize the amount of fold quartz needed, and to use smaller pieces of fold quartz than the YF-29 required.  Theoretically, they shouldn't be able to reuse the fold quartz from the Siegfrieds in the YF-29 because the crystals aren't big enough.

I take it that the Fold Quartz they have on Windermere wouldn't cut it for what the 29 requires?

[Bolt]

16 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Perhaps it's a VF-29, a scaled-back production model that doesn't cost several moderately-wealthy countries' GDPs to make. Emphasis on scaled-back.

 

5 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Actually maybe that's it... Maybe they cut the Siegfried's and gathered the fold quartz together to make a YF-29 and thus have to drop down to the 31AX model for standard use while they set up one super unit?

Could be the ultra economy version..🤔

 

44 minutes ago, NightmarePlus said:

I take it that the Fold Quartz they have on Windermere wouldn't cut it for what the 29 requires?

I was under the impression Windermere is quite flush with Fold Quartz. Though I'm not sure on the purity..

[DewPoint]

Maybe not relevant to the conversation, but 1 carat is 200mg. So a 1000 carat fold quartz weighs 200 grams.

Edited July 14, 2021 by DewPoint
wasn't thinking straight! bad math!

[twich]

That is actually quite small, so all 4 of the fold quartz necessary for the YF-29 to be at full power is less than a kilogram in weight. 2.2lbs=1kg. So The necklace that Hayate wears is probably half of the requirement of the system, I guess it is just a matter of the purity.

twich

[Bolt]

Definitely purity. But , again Fold Quartz be rare..

Either way, so far it looks like a YF(VF?)- 29 will be in the mix. I'm gonna go ahead and hold my breath for a VF-24 cameo..🤢