Macross Delta Zettai Live!!!!!! - Available on Blu-ray Sept 28, 2022

[Heron]

  On 10/1/2022 at 10:32 PM, Mommar said:

Doesn't bother me but it's only been four days since release.  You'd better believe that last bullet needs to be a spoilers tag.

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Good looking out! Fixed!

[charles88]

  On 10/1/2022 at 7:07 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm planning to watch my copy this weekend... though, to be honest, I'm actually kind of dreading it.

On the one hand, everything I've heard from my friends in Japan who saw it in theaters was broadly positive and suggested that the movie was where Macross Delta actually starts living up to the "Macross" name.  I'm heartily sick of being disappointed by the lazy work on display in Macross Delta proper and the middling-at-best first movie, so I'd like nothing better than for the second movie to blow me away and leave me feeling like the slog to get here was actually worth it.

On the other hand, I absolutely 200% dread the movie's "big reveal" because it's a painfully anticlimactic answer to the franchise's oldest unsolved mystery.

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The Macross Delta TV series and first movie 100% made the right call by leaving Lady M shrouded in mystery and without a defined identity or origin.  

Revealing that she was connected to the long-vanished Megaroad-01 and that Megaroad-01 has been in contact with the greater galaxy for many years undermines parts of several other, much better, Macross stories that were driven by Richard Bilra's obsessive desire to find Megaroad-01 and Minmay at any cost.  The Frontier fleet's launch was part of Bilra's plan to find Minmay, and the YF-30 was developed as part of his obsession with improving fold technology to search for her.

In much the same way that Minmay's story has grown in the telling to the point that the real Minmay would probably be massively underwhelming to anyone in-universe who met her after seeing the dramas about her life, the mystery of the Megaroad-01 has grown because of the fanbase's interest in it.  No answer would be satisfying at this point and the answer we get is incredibly banal at best.  Made a bit worse by the fact that the villain has an actually-pretty-good point and so someone on Megaroad-01 could arguably be called a Greater Scope Villain for Macross Delta now.

On the other other hand, I am greatly looking forward to seeing Delta's collection of underdeveloped expies of Macross Frontier characters, third-rate washouts from Brisingr's local New UN Forces, and other assorted bush league "talent" get completely upstaged in their own ****ing movie by a special guest character from another series.  

On the other other other hand, could someone please pass the geiger counter?

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Seto, are you still on that Lady M aka Megaroad-01 is villain and greater scope villain no less?

Lore stated that NUNS ontact with Megaroad-01 was established after the Vajra War. Lady M who is stuck in a Fold Fault couldn't influence NUN policy during those years.Which means they have ZERO involment in Sharon Apple incident, Pro Earth conspiracy and Macross Galaxy conspiracy. In fact they more like think tank and help to proper inforce AI and cybernatic restriction to prevent Sharon apple and Macross Galaxy conspiracy and the one send Hayate father to stop Eplison agent to steal Star singer cell and founded Xaos

That makes Cromwell a Conspiracy Theorist. One who ignores the mistakes the NUN made that led to those policies. Attributing to some nebulous Deep State. Also  it seems that he like those nuclear power extreme supporters as those people will advocate nuclear power and will dismiss nuclear accidents as their excuse to continue the unrestrictive advancement of nuclear technology will eventually eliminate those accidents. I bet he thinks continued unrestrictive cybernetic and AI tech will further advancement of humanity and dismiss danger and lesson from previous incident as continue advancement will eliminate those issues eventually. Dont tell me you actually root for Heimdall destroying Lady M?
 

In fact the REAL Greater Scope Villain in Macross verse are Eplison Foundation as they the ONE sponsor and Backing Macross Galaxy conspirator, sponsor Roid scheme, Stealing Star singer cell that creates Siren system and now backing Heimdall which led the attack on Entire NUNS and try to kill Megaroad-01 and destroy Windermere and forcefully annex Windermere and other planets 

[charles88]

  On 10/1/2022 at 9:14 PM, Marzan said:

I said before and I say it again. Kawamori should hand over control of Macross to someone who will develop it and take it into a fresh direction, but that actually cares about writing and characters

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So You wanna repeat Gundam mistake like how Fukuda ruined Gundam

[Heron]

Yeah I disagree with Kawamori giving up his interest in Macross. Delta is merely what the current audience of Japan wants. At least from most reports from there. As well as a large number of international audiences. But now that Macross is free of the previous HG restrictions, we may see a different take on series in the future.

[The Shade]

I just finished watching it. Overall, I liked it. I found, for this movie, that the dog fights were easier to follow then some of the other movies (Macross or otherwise).

The music worked well. The songs were well placed for the scenes they were put in.

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I was actually very impressed that they didn't shoe horn in Do You Remember Love. I mean, I love the song, but it was nice that the film went their own way.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

OK, so... some non-spoilery thoughts now that I've watched it.

1. Pairing Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! with Macross Frontier: the Labyrinth of Time seemed like a bold idea at the time it was announced.  A little too bold, now that I've seen it.  The 12 minutes of Macross Frontier: the Labyrinth of Time are WAY more memorable than the 124 minutes of Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!!.  Setting it up so Labyrinth of Time plays FIRST was definitely a bad idea, because Absolute Live!!!!!! feels like an afterthought in comparison.  It might've been advertised as Absolute Live!!!!!! with a special extra feature Labyrinth of Time, but the reality is the other way around.  The Labyrinth of Time, with special and entirely optional and not-at-all-worth-it extra feature Absolute Live!!!!!!.  
    
2. I was worried I'd feel ripped off if Absolute Live!!!!!! was a bad movie.  I do not.  After The Labyrinth of Time, I am not only content, I am HAPPY.  I feel no shame in admitting I even got a little misty-eyed there for a few minutes.  It is a BEAUTIFUL coda to the Macross Frontier movie storyline, like Flash Back 2012.
    
3. I love how Ranka worked Alto and Sheryl's callsigns into the song she sings in this... Skull 04 and Fairy 9.  That's every bit as cute as Master File having Sheryl's bodyguard detail using modexes of her birthday and Alto's.
    
4.  The opening song of Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! is about the most forgettable thing I've ever heard.  It sounds like minimum-effort BGM from some 90's-era video game.  Autotuned to hell, back, and back to hell AGAIN.
    
5. Either Heinz forgot how calendars work, or the writers did.
    
6. They seem to have kind of given up on the premise of Walkure and Delta Flight operating together with airshows going on during the non-combat concerts.  Delta Flight's only real contribution in the first number is launching the multidrones, which then just vanish and are not visible at all in the concert.
    
7. OK woah.  They remind us that Windermereans have a typical lifespan of 30... but they start having or planning to have kids at the age of FIVE?!  Previous material suggested Windermereans aged at more or less the same pace as humans for their first 18 or so years!  THAT'S JUST CREEPY!
    
8. Bogue stops just short of telling everyone to read White Knight of the Black Wing to hear his full backstory while he's pooh-poohing Hayate and Freyja's relationship.  I kind of wish he'd broken the fourth wall and started doing some Gilderoy Lockhart-esque shilling of his own backstory.
    
9. Walkure's songs in this really are pretty weak.  This movie lacks a certified banger like Forbidden Borderline, Our Battlefield, Love! Thunder Glow, or Walkure Won't Stop.
    
10. This is a two hour movie.  It takes exactly thirty-seven minutes for it to stop screwing about and get to the actual plot.
     
11. Considering the Aerial Knights were on the delivering end of The Worf Effect throughout the TV series, it's surprisingly satisfying to see them on the receiving end this time... and yet insubstantial all the same, because none of these characters have had more than the most basic development.
     
12. Heimdall has time for random property damage, but is simply too polite to shoot down Delta Flight's Siegfrieds when they're unmanned and being summoned remotely.
     
13. Captain of the Macross Gigasion, Maximilian Jenius... this is MY movie now.
     
14. If the movie's big bad is supposed to be an unreasonable nutjob, the writers do a REALLY AWFUL job of making him sound anything less than justified in his views.
     
15. Max clowning on Delta Flight is everything I hoped for and more.  He takes on the entire augmented Delta Flight on his own and humiliates them ALL in an absolutely savage manner while wearing a smug little smile.  Then he destroys them VERBALLY to make sure they FEEL the damage.
     
16. The number of times in this movie Walkure has to be reminded that their gimmick is to sing DURING battles is distressingly high.  At least once per battle.  SEVERAL times in the last one.

 

And some spoiler-y thoughts... TRIPLE spoiler tagged just in case someone misclicks.

  Reveal hidden contents

Don't say I didn't warn you!

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Buddy, I'm tellin' ya, there be spoilers here!

  Reveal hidden contents

Ranka's sure done a lot of growing up... and not just physically.  I'd never have expected her to be little miss NEVER GIVE UP.  That Ozma's sobbing at her concerts is less surprising.

Apparently there's an organization called the Galactic Heritage Bureau that regulates Protoculture artifacts and ruins now?  Ranka's been using her galactic tour to explore them in the hopes of contacting Alto and summoning him back so that he can awaken Sheryl, who remains in a coma.

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... and she might have actually succeeded.

 

Sorry, what?  Windermere's been in "constant, bitter conflict" with humanity for FIVE DECADES?  Um, no?  Did y'all forget this war only started EIGHT YEARS AGO in-universe?  Windermere IV was a member in good standing of the New UN Government until 2060 and had zero conflicts, bitter or otherwise, with it prior to the war of secession.  

Heinz gives a speech that basically blames everything on humanity, even labeling it a Holy War... which kind of ignores the fact that they started the war, BOTH TIMES, and lost the last one utterly.  They're apparently still negotiating the peace treaty.

"I have a brilliant idea.  We were literally at war with these people a couple months ago.  Let's bring military-grade aircraft down to their planet and start horsing around in the midst of their population during what appears to be a religious ceremony and in the immediate vicinity of their head of state and hope nobody gets hurt or mistakes this for a surprise attack."  I think this may be the first time Bogue has behaved in a reasonable manner, being outraged that Hayate is acting like a prat in front of Windermere's King and his court.

I guess it wouldn't be Delta without reminding us that most of these characters have no actual defined character traits beyond what particular fanservice fetish they cater to.  Makina's autographing what looks to be gravure photobooks.

... and Kaname is only here to be pathetic.  Everyone else is getting along with the Windermereans in their own ways, and Kaname is lying to exaggerate her own portfolio as a solo idol.  She claims to have once performed with Ranka Lee, only for her own teammates to chime in and publicly humiliate her by disproving her claim AND bringing photo evidence she's a liar to show to everyone.  (Apparently it was less "performing with" than it was Ranka watching a video of her trying and failing to rodeo ride a hippo on a variety show.  Said photo even includes a wardrobe malfunction.)  Can she not have one goddamn thing, seriously!  She's already had the fact that she bombed as a solo idol rubbed in her face and her one fan up and died in her arms.  

There is a tiny amount of amusement to be had of Hayate and Freyja getting grilled about their relationship by Freyja's friends while the townsmen go on about starting a family in the background.  

Bogue brings everyone down by reminding everyone that Freyja defecting to the New UN Government side was/is a capital offense and the only reason she's not being executed is because of Heinz's mercy.  He then basically admits he still wants to run humans off the planet entirely.  Bogue goes from 0-100 real quick... he jumps straight from sitting calmly to agreeing with racist xenophobes to threatening to cut their heads off for disturbing the peace.  

Oh boy, we're glossing over the fact that Hayate's dad is basically Space Hitler to the Windermereans huh?  Yeah Hayate, your dad died when you were ten.  He died dropping a dimensional bomb on Bogue's hometown in a black op!

Hayate, you confessed THIRTY-FIVE minutes into a TWO HOUR movie after ninety percent of the cast just had a discussion about how your relationship is totally doomed because of the difference between your lifespan and Freyja's.  That is a Death Flag large enough to carpet an entire spiral arm of the galaxy.  It's made even more blatant when the Battle Astraea shows up and burns the apple trees her grandmother and parents planted down.

We get reminded that Windermere IV is surrounded by fold faults and that folding directly into the atmosphere is impossible because of it.  The new baddies do it anyway, because they have Macguffins.

The Aerial Knights get taken out in more or less the order of who has the least characterization first... even the Sigur Berrentzs gets nuked for its trouble after it survives a Macross Cannon shot.  We're really sweeping the whole goddamn series under the rug here aren't we?  One Battle-class and six unmanned fighters is enough to take out the Aerial Knights and force Windermere to surrender.

Exsedol's brain is a FTL communications system somehow, now?

The movie contradicts itself at 51:33.  5 decades of bitter conflict... but relations only soured when the star singer DNA was stolen in 2060.  You keep using that word...

MORE FORESHADOWING!  FFS, at this point they'ev foreshadowed Freyja's death four or five times.  It would've been way more surprising if she'd lived.

Heimdall uses a lot of stock line art in their promotional video... they announce their intention to rid humanity of the New UN Gov't, New UN Forces, PMCs, and Lady M.  He levels a lot of accusations, but it's kind of hard to argue with the one piece of hard evidence he does present: Lady M's creation and operation of an illegal clone soldier and bio-fold weapon named Mikumo Guynemer.  Exsedol's exposition on Cromwell's motivation just makes him seem even more reasonable by explaining that Cromwell advocating for unmanned fighters to prevent loss of life and the use of cybernetics and cloning technology to benefit soldiers who'd been injured in battle.  He advocated for the use of MDE weapons to defend his home planet from a major threat, and was ignored, and his homeplanet and fleet were wiped out.  

Is Makina going to get even one scene where they don't remind us that she was created as a propulsion system for a pair of gag boobs?  Survey says, "No".  Even when she's shown working on emergency repairs to fighters, she takes time out to subject Mirage to her rack is a needlessly graphic manner.

... this is like a death dinner we're looking at.  A partially-eaten steak AND pineapple salad AND pineapple-upside-down cake?  Max, do you want to die or are you trying to kill Arad?

Xaos's Listania branch is operating out of a decommissioned factory satellite?  Nifty.

Best part of the movie... Delta Flight goes out to train on their new Kairos Plus fighters against Ghosts loaded with combat data from the fight on Windermere and can barely keep up.  Max then decides to "contribute" to their training by attacking them himself.  They suffer a humiliatingly one-sided defeat that leaves Hayate smeared into a literal crater of red paint.  I got what I wanted.  It has never been more apparent what a bunch of bush-league yokels our protagonists are.

Max even steals Hayate's signature move and beats him with it, dubbing his version the "Incredible Dance".  

He even shows up to troll them about it after the fight's over when they're busy feeling sorry for themselves and gives Mirage a The Reason You Suck speech about her piloting AND her love life.  NO WONDER SHE HAS ISSUES, GOD DAMN.  He even straight up tells her she doesn't have what it takes to be an ace.

Hello officer, I just witnessed a brutal pentuple murder... a seventy year old man just killed a bunch of teens and twenty somethings with paint rounds, then with words.

"Just in case we haven't raised enough Death Flags, let me return your tragic keepsake to you now and make promises about our shared future." - Hayate

Max and Milia were voted #1 famous couple most likely to split up for FIFTY YEARS RUNNING?

Oh good grief... Hayate is going to KANAME for romantic advice?  THAT IS THE WORST POSSIBLE PERSON YOU COULD ASK!  The closest she's ever had to a boyfriend is a STALKER.

Max and Arad get attacked by a gun-headed combat robot that looks like something from a cheap horror movie or comic book.  It gassed his entire bridge crew and took over the ship, then crippled Arad.  Points for gumption to Arad, who somehow blows its head clean off with a semiautomatic pistol.

And there's the plot tumor.  Lady M's full codename is Lady Megaroad-01.  Bogue even addresses the elephant in the room that Lady M is exactly the same kind of baddie as Cromwell.

Cromwell's Vivasvats attack the factory satellite, and Arad micromanages the fight from a wheelchair on the Gigasion's bridge until the Siren Delta System comes up with Evil Walkure who spout cliched villianous versions of Walkure's gimmick.  They nuke a hole into the factory satellite and even attack the Gigasion directly, since Walkure are basicaly useless to stop the attack.

Oh boy, Destroid teams!  That'll stop 'em! *snerk* NOT.

Freyja gives Hayate Var syndrome bullet time by burning up her lifespan, buying the fleet time to evacuate.

... did Max just self-destruct a factory satellite to cover his escape?

Now Freyja's in a tube!  She looks worse than Heinz at this point.  

FOR ****'S SAKE, STOP FORESHADOWING HER DEATH!  She's got more death flags raised than there are actual flags at the United Nations!  THAT IS TWO IN THE SAME SCENE!  WE GET IT! SHE'S GONNA DIE.

We get a reminder that Gazpacho Gus - or Messer Ihlefeld - was from Alfheim when they plan to use the Alfheim ruins to create a super fold gate.  They name drop him, but he should be credited as Lt. Not Appearing In This Film.

Arad gives unit command to Mirage, even after having TWO SEPARATE CONVERSATIONS about how much she sucks.  He then goes to talk to Hayate and tells Hayate he'll tell him more about Hayate's dad's time on Windermere later.  (That is going to be one awkward conversation.)

Hayate and Freyja have a conversation about how she needs to stop singing or she'll die.  He, of course, implores her to live so we all know how this is gonna end after all the flags we've already raised.  They even close the blast shutters on them in the middle of it for added symbolism.

We see super fold gates open over a number of worlds including:

• Eden
• Libera (apparently the name of the 4th planet of the Varauta 3198XE system, though it's spelled "Ballota" in this.)
• The Vajra planet finally has a name!  It's... "Vajra".  How inspired.
• THE Earth.  Definite emphasis on "THE".  Why's it in all caps?

Insurrection breaks out in the New UN Forces ranks for... reasons?  Apparently a LOT of the New UN Forces support Cromwell's desire to be rid of Lady M...

Oh hey, he's NOT Lt. Not Appearing In This Film after all... welcome to Super Dimension Corpse Messer: Flashback 2067.  I wonder why they're having this talk out on the extreme end of the Aether's flight deck while he's on crutches?  That seems like a bit of a dick move.

Wow, we're going with Axia for the final battle?  Really?  This will end BADLY.  Last time you girls did that one, Messer ended up a flightsuit full of gazpacho.

They've arrived too late, so Cromwell's already got his fold gate open to the Megaroad-01.  We get to see two people at one of its windows.  Both women, one is wearing an officer's cap and one in a dress.  Three guesses who they're probably supposed to be.

Delta Flight shoots off some missiles that somehow jam all fold waves... even their own.  WHEN DID THEY GET THESE?!  THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN SO USEFUL AGAINST WINDERMERE.

Max brought what, four Elysion-type Macrosses to this little show?  Three was barely enough to fight to a draw with Windermere.  Four is going to do what?  Oh, right... take immediate enemy fire.  Oh wait, according to the diagram he brought EIGHT.  That might do the job.  It's quite a kaboom, but it's no-sold immediately.

HO-LEE-crap.  Clearly someone has been making strides with dimensional weapon firepower.  The diagram of what'd happen of Astraea fires off her main gun shows it blowing a huge part of Windermere's surface clean off.

HAYATE, STOP RAISING DEATH FLAGS.  STOP DOING IT!  STOP IT RIGHT THE HELL NOW!

Everyone kind of obligingly stops shooting at the Gigasion so they can have a moment?  Moreover, how is the frigging Siren Delta System eavesdropping on this conversation?  

I swear even by Blu-ray player is bored with this movie.  Right in the middle of one of the action scenes it cut to a screen saver. 

Mirage gets fold wave boosted and... decides to sit still and micromanage her pilots?  How sweet, Mirage gets a moment after being neglected for 26 episodes and a movie. 

Max decides to go join in and really turn this from a fight into a curb-stomping.  They roll out the actually-good songs for HIM.  He gets to launch to Forbidden Borderline.

Cromwell betrays his Epsilon foundation backer, who turns out to be all machine and no man.  He orders his crew to abandon ship and continue charging the Macross Cannon so that he can achieve his objective without sacrificing his own people.  That's kind of a pretty respectable move for a guy who's supposed to be the villain here.  He takes out a photo to reminisce while he waits for death to take him.  He's still winning this fight hands down at this point too.

It should be noted at this point that Walkure does not, in fact, save the day or even appreciably help save the day.  What saves the day is a gunship bombardment that knocks the Battle Astraea's cannon off its target and causes it to waste the shot it destroyed itself charging.  It then blows up, and all the Vivasvats shut off.  Hayate rescued the Siren Delta System though.  Just as he's getting back to the ship, Freyja collapses.  The core of the Siren Delta System is a baby now.  And a Windermerean one with her rune, at that.  

Freyja dies in Hayate's arms as they look out over the city of Darwent from the Macross Gigasion.  They try very hard to make it dramatic, but it falls kind of flat because they made it so stupidly obvious she was going to die.  They didn't just telegraph it, they skywrote it, engraved it onto the moon, and sent everyone a personally addressed letter reminding us she'd die every fifteen minutes.

 

 

 

Well, that was certainly a thing that I watched.

The Labyrinth of Time puts a magnificent cap on the story of Macross Frontier and publicly shames its successor before Macross Delta drunkenly stumbles to a long-overdue end with a well-animated but badly written, clumsily executed mess of a story full of unremarkable music and telegraphed plot "twists" where the villain's motivation makes infinitely more sense than that of the heroes and OG Macross characters show up to drive home how disappointing Delta's are with the subtlety and grace of a piledriver seating a channel marker.

[pengbuzz]

  On 10/2/2022 at 3:17 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

OK, so... some non-spoilery thoughts now that I've watched it.

1. Pairing Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! with Macross Frontier: the Labyrinth of Time seemed like a bold idea at the time it was announced.  A little too bold, now that I've seen it.  The 12 minutes of Macross Frontier: the Labyrinth of Time are WAY more memorable than the 124 minutes of Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!!.  Setting it up so Labyrinth of Time plays FIRST was definitely a bad idea, because Absolute Live!!!!!! feels like an afterthought in comparison.  It might've been advertised as Absolute Live!!!!!! with a special extra feature Labyrinth of Time, but the reality is the other way around.  The Labyrinth of Time, with special and entirely optional and not-at-all-worth-it extra feature Absolute Live!!!!!!.  
    
2. I was worried I'd feel ripped off if Absolute Live!!!!!! was a bad movie.  I do not.  After The Labyrinth of Time, I am not only content, I am HAPPY.  I feel no shame in admitting I even got a little misty-eyed there for a few minutes.  It is a BEAUTIFUL coda to the Macross Frontier movie storyline, like Flash Back 2012.
    
3. I love how Ranka worked Alto and Sheryl's callsigns into the song she sings in this... Skull 04 and Fairy 9.  That's every bit as cute as Master File having Sheryl's bodyguard detail using modexes of her birthday and Alto's.
    
4.  The opening song of Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! is about the most forgettable thing I've ever heard.  It sounds like minimum-effort BGM from some 90's-era video game.  Autotuned to hell, back, and back to hell AGAIN.
    
5. Either Heinz forgot how calendars work, or the writers did.
    
6. They seem to have kind of given up on the premise of Walkure and Delta Flight operating together with airshows going on during the non-combat concerts.  Delta Flight's only real contribution in the first number is launching the multidrones, which then just vanish and are not visible at all in the concert.
    
7. OK woah.  They remind us that Windermereans have a typical lifespan of 30... but they start having or planning to have kids at the age of FIVE?!  Previous material suggested Windermereans aged at more or less the same pace as humans for their first 18 or so years!  THAT'S JUST CREEPY!
    
8. Bogue stops just short of telling everyone to read White Knight of the Black Wing to hear his full backstory while he's pooh-poohing Hayate and Freyja's relationship.  I kind of wish he'd broken the fourth wall and started doing some Gilderoy Lockhart-esque shilling of his own backstory.
    
9. Walkure's songs in this really are pretty weak.  This movie lacks a certified banger like Forbidden Borderline, Our Battlefield, Love! Thunder Glow, or Walkure Won't Stop.
    
10. This is a two hour movie.  It takes exactly thirty-seven minutes for it to stop screwing about and get to the actual plot.
     
11. Considering the Aerial Knights were on the delivering end of The Worf Effect throughout the TV series, it's surprisingly satisfying to see them on the receiving end this time... and yet insubstantial all the same, because none of these characters have had more than the most basic development.
     
12. Heimdall has time for random property damage, but is simply too polite to shoot down Delta Flight's Siegfrieds when they're unmanned and being summoned remotely.
     
13. Captain of the Macross Gigasion, Maximilian Jenius... this is MY movie now.
     
14. If the movie's big bad is supposed to be an unreasonable nutjob, the writers do a REALLY AWFUL job of making him sound anything less than justified in his views.
     
15. Max clowning on Delta Flight is everything I hoped for and more.  He takes on the entire augmented Delta Flight on his own and humiliates them ALL in an absolutely savage manner while wearing a smug little smile.  Then he destroys them VERBALLY to make sure they FEEL the damage.
     
16. The number of times in this movie Walkure has to be reminded that their gimmick is to sing DURING battles is distressingly high.  At least once per battle.  SEVERAL times in the last one.

 

And some spoiler-y thoughts... TRIPLE spoiler tagged just in case someone misclicks.

  Reveal hidden contents

Don't say I didn't warn you!

  Reveal hidden contents

Buddy, I'm tellin' ya, there be spoilers here!

  Reveal hidden contents

Ranka's sure done a lot of growing up... and not just physically.  I'd never have expected her to be little miss NEVER GIVE UP.  That Ozma's sobbing at her concerts is less surprising.

Apparently there's an organization called the Galactic Heritage Bureau that regulates Protoculture artifacts and ruins now?  Ranka's been using her galactic tour to explore them in the hopes of contacting Alto and summoning him back so that he can awaken Sheryl, who remains in a coma.

  Reveal hidden contents

... and she might have actually succeeded.

 

Sorry, what?  Windermere's been in "constant, bitter conflict" with humanity for FIVE DECADES?  Um, no?  Did y'all forget this war only started EIGHT YEARS AGO in-universe?  Windermere IV was a member in good standing of the New UN Government until 2060 and had zero conflicts, bitter or otherwise, with it prior to the war of secession.  

Heinz gives a speech that basically blames everything on humanity, even labeling it a Holy War... which kind of ignores the fact that they started the war, BOTH TIMES, and lost the last one utterly.  They're apparently still negotiating the peace treaty.

"I have a brilliant idea.  We were literally at war with these people a couple months ago.  Let's bring military-grade aircraft down to their planet and start horsing around in the midst of their population during what appears to be a religious ceremony and in the immediate vicinity of their head of state and hope nobody gets hurt or mistakes this for a surprise attack."  I think this may be the first time Bogue has behaved in a reasonable manner, being outraged that Hayate is acting like a prat in front of Windermere's King and his court.

I guess it wouldn't be Delta without reminding us that most of these characters have no actual defined character traits beyond what particular fanservice fetish they cater to.  Makina's autographing what looks to be gravure photobooks.

... and Kaname is only here to be pathetic.  Everyone else is getting along with the Windermereans in their own ways, and Kaname is lying to exaggerate her own portfolio as a solo idol.  She claims to have once performed with Ranka Lee, only for her own teammates to chime in and publicly humiliate her by disproving her claim AND bringing photo evidence she's a liar to show to everyone.  (Apparently it was less "performing with" than it was Ranka watching a video of her trying and failing to rodeo ride a hippo on a variety show.  Said photo even includes a wardrobe malfunction.)  Can she not have one goddamn thing, seriously!  She's already had the fact that she bombed as a solo idol rubbed in her face and her one fan up and died in her arms.  

There is a tiny amount of amusement to be had of Hayate and Freyja getting grilled about their relationship by Freyja's friends while the townsmen go on about starting a family in the background.  

Bogue brings everyone down by reminding everyone that Freyja defecting to the New UN Government side was/is a capital offense and the only reason she's not being executed is because of Heinz's mercy.  He then basically admits he still wants to run humans off the planet entirely.  Bogue goes from 0-100 real quick... he jumps straight from sitting calmly to agreeing with racist xenophobes to threatening to cut their heads off for disturbing the peace.  

Oh boy, we're glossing over the fact that Hayate's dad is basically Space Hitler to the Windermereans huh?  Yeah Hayate, your dad died when you were ten.  He died dropping a dimensional bomb on Bogue's hometown in a black op!

Hayate, you confessed THIRTY-FIVE minutes into a TWO HOUR movie after ninety percent of the cast just had a discussion about how your relationship is totally doomed because of the difference between your lifespan and Freyja's.  That is a Death Flag large enough to carpet an entire spiral arm of the galaxy.  It's made even more blatant when the Battle Astraea shows up and burns the apple trees her grandmother and parents planted down.

We get reminded that Windermere IV is surrounded by fold faults and that folding directly into the atmosphere is impossible because of it.  The new baddies do it anyway, because they have Macguffins.

The Aerial Knights get taken out in more or less the order of who has the least characterization first... even the Sigur Berrentzs gets nuked for its trouble after it survives a Macross Cannon shot.  We're really sweeping the whole goddamn series under the rug here aren't we?  One Battle-class and six unmanned fighters is enough to take out the Aerial Knights and force Windermere to surrender.

Exsedol's brain is a FTL communications system somehow, now?

The movie contradicts itself at 51:33.  5 decades of bitter conflict... but relations only soured when the star singer DNA was stolen in 2060.  You keep using that word...

MORE FORESHADOWING!  FFS, at this point they'ev foreshadowed Freyja's death four or five times.  It would've been way more surprising if she'd lived.

Heimdall uses a lot of stock line art in their promotional video... they announce their intention to rid humanity of the New UN Gov't, New UN Forces, PMCs, and Lady M.  He levels a lot of accusations, but it's kind of hard to argue with the one piece of hard evidence he does present: Lady M's creation and operation of an illegal clone soldier and bio-fold weapon named Mikumo Guynemer.  Exsedol's exposition on Cromwell's motivation just makes him seem even more reasonable by explaining that Cromwell advocating for unmanned fighters to prevent loss of life and the use of cybernetics and cloning technology to benefit soldiers who'd been injured in battle.  He advocated for the use of MDE weapons to defend his home planet from a major threat, and was ignored, and his homeplanet and fleet were wiped out.  

Is Makina going to get even one scene where they don't remind us that she was created as a propulsion system for a pair of gag boobs?  Survey says, "No".  Even when she's shown working on emergency repairs to fighters, she takes time out to subject Mirage to her rack is a needlessly graphic manner.

... this is like a death dinner we're looking at.  A partially-eaten steak AND pineapple salad AND pineapple-upside-down cake?  Max, do you want to die or are you trying to kill Arad?

Xaos's Listania branch is operating out of a decommissioned factory satellite?  Nifty.

Best part of the movie... Delta Flight goes out to train on their new Kairos Plus fighters against Ghosts loaded with combat data from the fight on Windermere and can barely keep up.  Max then decides to "contribute" to their training by attacking them himself.  They suffer a humiliatingly one-sided defeat that leaves Hayate smeared into a literal crater of red paint.  I got what I wanted.  It has never been more apparent what a bunch of bush-league yokels our protagonists are.

Max even steals Hayate's signature move and beats him with it, dubbing his version the "Incredible Dance".  

He even shows up to troll them about it after the fight's over when they're busy feeling sorry for themselves and gives Mirage a The Reason You Suck speech about her piloting AND her love life.  NO WONDER SHE HAS ISSUES, GOD DAMN.  He even straight up tells her she doesn't have what it takes to be an ace.

Hello officer, I just witnessed a brutal pentuple murder... a seventy year old man just killed a bunch of teens and twenty somethings with paint rounds, then with words.

"Just in case we haven't raised enough Death Flags, let me return your tragic keepsake to you now and make promises about our shared future." - Hayate

Max and Milia were voted #1 famous couple most likely to split up for FIFTY YEARS RUNNING?

Oh good grief... Hayate is going to KANAME for romantic advice?  THAT IS THE WORST POSSIBLE PERSON YOU COULD ASK!  The closest she's ever had to a boyfriend is a STALKER.

Max and Arad get attacked by a gun-headed combat robot that looks like something from a cheap horror movie or comic book.  It gassed his entire bridge crew and took over the ship, then crippled Arad.  Points for gumption to Arad, who somehow blows its head clean off with a semiautomatic pistol.

And there's the plot tumor.  Lady M's full codename is Lady Megaroad-01.  Bogue even addresses the elephant in the room that Lady M is exactly the same kind of baddie as Cromwell.

Cromwell's Vivasvats attack the factory satellite, and Arad micromanages the fight from a wheelchair on the Gigasion's bridge until the Siren Delta System comes up with Evil Walkure who spout cliched villianous versions of Walkure's gimmick.  They nuke a hole into the factory satellite and even attack the Gigasion directly, since Walkure are basicaly useless to stop the attack.

Oh boy, Destroid teams!  That'll stop 'em! *snerk* NOT.

Freyja gives Hayate Var syndrome bullet time by burning up her lifespan, buying the fleet time to evacuate.

... did Max just self-destruct a factory satellite to cover his escape?

Now Freyja's in a tube!  She looks worse than Heinz at this point.  

FOR ****'S SAKE, STOP FORESHADOWING HER DEATH!  She's got more death flags raised than there are actual flags at the United Nations!  THAT IS TWO IN THE SAME SCENE!  WE GET IT! SHE'S GONNA DIE.

We get a reminder that Gazpacho Gus - or Messer Ihlefeld - was from Alfheim when they plan to use the Alfheim ruins to create a super fold gate.  They name drop him, but he should be credited as Lt. Not Appearing In This Film.

Arad gives unit command to Mirage, even after having TWO SEPARATE CONVERSATIONS about how much she sucks.  He then goes to talk to Hayate and tells Hayate he'll tell him more about Hayate's dad's time on Windermere later.  (That is going to be one awkward conversation.)

Hayate and Freyja have a conversation about how she needs to stop singing or she'll die.  He, of course, implores her to live so we all know how this is gonna end after all the flags we've already raised.  They even close the blast shutters on them in the middle of it for added symbolism.

We see super fold gates open over a number of worlds including:

• Eden
• Libera (apparently the name of the 4th planet of the Varauta 3198XE system, though it's spelled "Ballota" in this.)
• The Vajra planet finally has a name!  It's... "Vajra".  How inspired.
• THE Earth.  Definite emphasis on "THE".  Why's it in all caps?

Insurrection breaks out in the New UN Forces ranks for... reasons?  Apparently a LOT of the New UN Forces support Cromwell's desire to be rid of Lady M...

Oh hey, he's NOT Lt. Not Appearing In This Film after all... welcome to Super Dimension Corpse Messer: Flashback 2067.  I wonder why they're having this talk out on the extreme end of the Aether's flight deck while he's on crutches?  That seems like a bit of a dick move.

Wow, we're going with Axia for the final battle?  Really?  This will end BADLY.  Last time you girls did that one, Messer ended up a flightsuit full of gazpacho.

They've arrived too late, so Cromwell's already got his fold gate open to the Megaroad-01.  We get to see two people at one of its windows.  Both women, one is wearing an officer's cap and one in a dress.  Three guesses who they're probably supposed to be.

Delta Flight shoots off some missiles that somehow jam all fold waves... even their own.  WHEN DID THEY GET THESE?!  THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN SO USEFUL AGAINST WINDERMERE.

Max brought what, four Elysion-type Macrosses to this little show?  Three was barely enough to fight to a draw with Windermere.  Four is going to do what?  Oh, right... take immediate enemy fire.  Oh wait, according to the diagram he brought EIGHT.  That might do the job.  It's quite a kaboom, but it's no-sold immediately.

HO-LEE-crap.  Clearly someone has been making strides with dimensional weapon firepower.  The diagram of what'd happen of Astraea fires off her main gun shows it blowing a huge part of Windermere's surface clean off.

HAYATE, STOP RAISING DEATH FLAGS.  STOP DOING IT!  STOP IT RIGHT THE HELL NOW!

Everyone kind of obligingly stops shooting at the Gigasion so they can have a moment?  Moreover, how is the frigging Siren Delta System eavesdropping on this conversation?  

I swear even by Blu-ray player is bored with this movie.  Right in the middle of one of the action scenes it cut to a screen saver. 

Mirage gets fold wave boosted and... decides to sit still and micromanage her pilots?  How sweet, Mirage gets a moment after being neglected for 26 episodes and a movie. 

Max decides to go join in and really turn this from a fight into a curb-stomping.  They roll out the actually-good songs for HIM.  He gets to launch to Forbidden Borderline.

Cromwell betrays his Epsilon foundation backer, who turns out to be all machine and no man.  He orders his crew to abandon ship and continue charging the Macross Cannon so that he can achieve his objective without sacrificing his own people.  That's kind of a pretty respectable move for a guy who's supposed to be the villain here.  He takes out a photo to reminisce while he waits for death to take him.  He's still winning this fight hands down at this point too.

It should be noted at this point that Walkure does not, in fact, save the day or even appreciably help save the day.  What saves the day is a gunship bombardment that knocks the Battle Astraea's cannon off its target and causes it to waste the shot it destroyed itself charging.  It then blows up, and all the Vivasvats shut off.  Hayate rescued the Siren Delta System though.  Just as he's getting back to the ship, Freyja collapses.  The core of the Siren Delta System is a baby now.  And a Windermerean one with her rune, at that.  

Freyja dies in Hayate's arms as they look out over the city of Darwent from the Macross Gigasion.  They try very hard to make it dramatic, but it falls kind of flat because they made it so stupidly obvious she was going to die.  They didn't just telegraph it, they skywrote it, engraved it onto the moon, and sent everyone a personally addressed letter reminding us she'd die every fifteen minutes.

 

 

 

Well, that was certainly a thing that I watched.

The Labyrinth of Time puts a magnificent cap on the story of Macross Frontier and publicly shames its successor before Macross Delta drunkenly stumbles to a long-overdue end with a well-animated but badly written, clumsily executed mess of a story full of unremarkable music and telegraphed plot "twists" where the villain's motivation makes infinitely more sense than that of the heroes and OG Macross characters show up to drive home how disappointing Delta's are with the subtlety and grace of a piledriver seating a channel marker.

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Er... couple of questions:
 

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Really curious, but don't want to spoil anything:

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1) They actually showed the Megaroad 01?! And folks in the windows?!

(if they saw anything of Delta Flight, no wonder they stayed lost!)

2) Just how the heck is Messer alive (or did I miss something)?!

 

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 10/2/2022 at 4:05 AM, pengbuzz said:

Er... couple of questions:

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To answer, in spoiler tags naturally.

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Spoilers ahead.

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Yo ho ho and a bottle of Hey Don't Read This If You Don't Want It Spoiled!

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  On 10/2/2022 at 4:05 AM, pengbuzz said:

1) They actually showed the Megaroad 01?! And folks in the windows?!

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Yes.  They actually show the Megaroad-01 stuck in a fold fault using a super fold gate.

Also, yes, they show two women in a closeup shot of one of the ship's windows.

 

  On 10/2/2022 at 4:05 AM, pengbuzz said:

2) Just how the heck is Messer alive (or did I miss something)?!

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He's still dead.  Kaname briefly flashes back to a conversation with Messer right after they mention he died.

 

 

 

[BlueMax]

  On 10/2/2022 at 3:17 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

......a well-animated but badly written, clumsily executed mess of a story ...... where the villain's motivation makes infinitely more sense than that of the heroes and OG Macross characters show up to drive home how disappointing Delta's are with the subtlety and grace of a piledriver seating a channel marker.

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I couldn't have said this better myself. I could have sworn that movie planning committee realised what a pile of dung they were putting out, and they brought back OG charracters to salvage the movie..... and even then, they did this in a very lazy manner. They writers simply gave Max a blue 29 because didn't know what plane to give Max, what kind of lazy writing is this?!?  I could say the same for many things that happened in this movie.... they all happened because of either fan service,  or simply out of the blue, without proper reasons.

Minus the OG characters (I thought the Archivist was very poorly animated.... straight out of a B game) and The Jenius doing what he does best, Kawamori would have turned me off future Macross anime projects for a while. At this point I agree that Kawamori needs to take a break from DIRECTING Macross, and simply focus on mecha design.  I can understand why the pages for Delta simply aren't updated. Delta was simply too lacklustre to get long time fans fired up over. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by BlueMax

[Seto Kaiba]

OK, one open question... did anyone else feel like the movie had absolutely terrible audio editing?

Due to some emergency home repair I had to watch using the 2.0 PCM audio track and any time the focus of the music changed from Walkure to Yami-Q-Ray or vice versa it didn't so much fade as just hastily drop one song for the other in mid-syllable.  Is the mastering just really bad on the 2.0 or is the 5.1 similarly affected?

[charles88]

  On 10/2/2022 at 3:17 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, that was certainly a thing that I watched.

The Labyrinth of Time puts a magnificent cap on the story of Macross Frontier and publicly shames its successor before Macross Delta drunkenly stumbles to a long-overdue end with a well-animated but badly written, clumsily executed mess of a story full of unremarkable music and telegraphed plot "twists" where the villain's motivation makes infinitely more sense than that of the heroes and OG Macross characters show up to drive home how disappointing Delta's are with the subtlety and grace of a piledriver seating a channel marker.

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Only makes sense on the Surface as Heimdall completely dismiss and conviently ommit that there 2 incident justified Lady M hardline on Cybernatic and AI research.Also there 1 colony nation have done unrestrictive Cybernatic research. That colony name : Macross Galaxy. In fact they found out the danger of cybernatic was those who has higher cybernatic tech can easily MIND conrol other people and that how Macross Galaxy conspirator use that to focefully mind control 99% of Macross Galaxy citizen without consent, And of course Sharon Apple incident.

Heimdall also massive hypocrite as he cry about Lady M illegal cloning Star singer to create Mikumo, yet he also use same clone Star singer and add with illegal AI system for extra measure. In fact Eplison Foundation the one steal it first cause Wright manage to retrive one of the sample and they force to use cell to clone Mikumo as Eplison already done it to counter Eplison. Also Father Johann also approve Lady M creating Mikumo. Also those NUNS soldier attack enire NUNS are most likely either mind controlled or machin being Hacked as the moment Battle Astrea destroyed, all machine suddenly turn off.

Why you keep inisist Lady M is villain and Greater scope Villain than Eplison Foundation as  Lady M who is stuck in a Fold Fault couldn't influence NUN policy during those years.Which means they have ZERO involment in Sharon Apple incident, Pro Earth conspiracy and Macross Galaxy conspiracy. While Eplison Foundation on the other hand Eplison Foundation the one sponsor and backing main villain of Macross such as Macross Galaxy conspirator, Roid research and now Heimdall insurrection.

By the way the reason  Battle Astrea that powerful because of Eplison Foundation heavily upgrade it with Fold Quatz and use Siren system to amplified its power as data show its full powered charged can destroy entire planet.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 10/2/2022 at 4:50 AM, charles88 said:

...

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Spoiler tag your spoilers.  There are still a lot of people who haven't seen this one yet.

 

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  On 10/2/2022 at 4:50 AM, charles88 said:

Only makes sense on the Surface as Heimdall completely dismiss and conviently ommit that there 2 incident justified Lady M hardline on Cybernatic and AI research.

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Granted, they don't really address a handful of specific incidents... but what you're missing is that, in-universe, those are acknowledged to be exceptions regarding tech that has generally otherwise proven safe, reliable, and effective.  

The Zentradi have been using cybernetics for half a million years for various purposes without incident.  Several human characters in the Frontier-era materials also have cybernetics that are not network implants to address injuries or improve their performance that are never presented as posing any issue whatsoever like Nicolas Berthier's fiber optic nervous system or Oscar Brauhitsch's cybernetic arm.  

As for AI, the Sharon Apple incident is an acknowledged aberration caused by Sharon's computer model brain being based on Myung's and absorbing a lot of her emotional baggage as a result.  In the Macross Frontier audio dramas LAI is experimenting with implementing the same AI system safely and is generally successful and the same air combat AI is later used by Luca in combat without incident.

 

  On 10/2/2022 at 4:50 AM, charles88 said:

Heimdall also massive hypocrite as he cry about Lady M illegal cloning Star singer to create Mikumo, yet he also use same clone Star singer and add with illegal AI system for extra measure.

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No, they're not at all hypocritical.  Remember, Heimdall's position is that those technologies shouldn't be illegal in the first place.  Their open use of those technologies is very much consistent with their stated ideology.  That is the OPPOSITE of hypocrisy.

Lady M, on the other hand, was masterfully called out on HER hypocrisy by Heimdall.  After all, Lady M was the one who argued for those technologies to be banned and for their use to be criminalized, before she then turned around and used them herself the minute it was convenient for her. 😉 

 

[Ragashingo]

I rather liked Absolute Live!!!!!

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- It's pretty clear that it retconed some of Delta's original plot. The war with Windermere was lengthened. Hayate's dad never dropped the bomb. Etc. I thought most of these were good changes that largely swept some of Delta's dumb original story bits under the rug. And... no complaining about late story changes in the movie, please. This is Macross after all. AKA: Have you seen DYRL or the Frontier movies?! 

- I liked the long buildup before the fighting began. Getting to visit Freyja's hometown and get to know it's people and there way of life really worked for me. I thought it was sweet, wholesome, and a little tragic. Sure, we heard a bit about Windermere in the past, but I thought it was handled much better this time around. Freyja's grove of apple trees even got me a little teary eyed. 

- While I perhaps agree that none of the new Walkure songs caught my attention as much as their original set... I think some of that comes down to having not heard them over and over for years. I'll single out Freyja's/Walkure's rendition of ALIVE -Inori no Uta- as actually being pretty memorable. I'm not even close to having the lyrics down, yet, but I liked how it seemed to tie Freyja's limited life with her love for Hayate. 

- Same with Yami_Q_Ray's songs. Having only really heard them once so far I couldn't tell you much about them... but what lyrics I was able to absorb I liked. There was a fun sense of darkness and provocativeness to their songs that makes me want to go back and focus on the words. Yami_Q_Ray did sorta come out of nowhere... but when they linked it to the same virtual idol tech that powered Sharon Apple... I was both nostalgic and satisfied by the explanation. I consider them fun throwback enemies at this point. 

- I liked Walkure's opening concert on Windermere even if it was CG. The camera was maybe a bit too snappy, but there were a lot of cool movements and effects that I thought more than balanced things out. It looked like it was a fun show for the city spread out below and that Walkure went to some effort to include people up in the palace all the way down to those at street level at the bottom of the mountain.

- Interestingly, I liked the story and how they tied in Delta's characters. Freyja's mortality and rocky relationship with Hayate because of it. Mikumo's lingering regret at having been a Star Singer who was missed to hurt people. Kaname's sadness at having lost Messer. Yeah... you kinda have to read between the lines here and there and keep in mind that this movie is operating a bit in its own altered timeline... but I felt they actually, finally used Delta's characters well... for once. I even like what they did with Mirage. Instead of going head to head with Freyja for Hayate's affection, it seems her self-doubt caused her to hold back and root for her friends instead. 

- I was fairly happy with the combat. It's not my favorite Macross combat... not enough personal battles like in Zero or Plus... but thing were kept quick and dynamic for the most part. I do think someone needs to strategize and stagger the firing of Macross cannons. Maybe five 7 of 8 and leave one charged in reserve to catch the enemy off guard when they try to counterattack. 

- I was fairly pleased with how they played Freyja coming to terms with her mortality. They showed her anguish at not being able to sing. They showed her fear of dying. But they had her throw all that to the wind and make a decision to devote her entire life to being a Walkure. To sing and protect to the very end. I was actually quite struck by how the title of the movie became something of the driving force for Freyja and Walkure by final battle. I got a little misty eyed there. 

- I thought Freyja's death in Hayate's arms was maybe a bit too drawn out. The word association game they played was cute and a callback to their time in the orchard... but felt just a little out of place, too. I also kinda feel bad for Hayate to have lost his love when he's only what? 17? 18? Something like that?! Maybe he'll find another Windermere girl... or... Mirage is still available!

- Overall... I thought this was easily the best of Delta and the first of its works and the first one I ended up with a positive impression of. It wasn't 100% perfect. It kinda had to bend the existing timeline around to clean up some of Delta's original story stumbles. It pretty much straight up ignored the existence of Chuck Mustang. He was there but didn't do anything notable... and really neither did Makina or Reina (aside from Makina's annoying bit of fanservice). But... yeah, I liked the way everything was bundled together this time. I liked that violating the ban on AI tech in the form of a virtual idol (or 5) again came to bite the bad guys in the ass. The movie clicked with me as a true Macross property in a way none of the previous Delta stuff did.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Ragashingo

[Seto Kaiba]

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  On 10/2/2022 at 5:41 AM, Ragashingo said:

It's pretty clear that it retconed some of Delta's original plot. The war with Windermere was lengthened. Hayate's dad never dropped the bomb. Etc. 

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I'm not sure either of those is actually true, though.

For one, the movie contradicts itself about the subject of how long hostilities have been going on.  Heinz says five decades at the start, but later in the film they say that the relations between the New UN Government and Windermere IV didn't sour until the theft of the Star Singer DNA in 2060.  It's also worth noting Heinz's claim cannot be true because Windermere IV was discovered by Megaroad-04 in 2027, 41 years ago at the time the movie is set.  

For two, the bombing of Carlyle must have happened because that is how Bogue's family died and he DOES reference their deaths in this movie.

 

[charles88]

  On 10/2/2022 at 5:30 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Spoiler tag your spoilers.  There are still a lot of people who haven't seen this one yet.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Granted, they don't really address a handful of specific incidents... but what you're missing is that, in-universe, those are acknowledged to be exceptions regarding tech that has generally otherwise proven safe, reliable, and effective.  

The Zentradi have been using cybernetics for half a million years for various purposes without incident.  Several human characters in the Frontier-era materials also have cybernetics that are not network implants to address injuries or improve their performance that are never presented as posing any issue whatsoever like Nicolas Berthier's fiber optic nervous system or Oscar Brauhitsch's cybernetic arm.  

As for AI, the Sharon Apple incident is an acknowledged aberration caused by Sharon's computer model brain being based on Myung's and absorbing a lot of her emotional baggage as a result.  In the Macross Frontier audio dramas LAI is experimenting with implementing the same AI system safely and is generally successful and the same air combat AI is later used by Luca in combat without incident.

 

No, they're not at all hypocritical.  Remember, Heimdall's position is that those technologies shouldn't be illegal in the first place.  Their open use of those technologies is very much consistent with their stated ideology.  That is the OPPOSITE of hypocrisy.

Lady M, on the other hand, was masterfully called out on HER hypocrisy by Heimdall.  After all, Lady M was the one who argued for those technologies to be banned and for their use to be criminalized, before she then turned around and used them herself the minute it was convenient for her. 😉 

 

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The reason why Zentradi able to use implant and cybernatic safely due to before meeting with human, they have zero understanding on how to create and understand how implant works as they are soldier race thanks to restriction impose by Protoculture. in fact all their tech are created automatically by Protoculture automated factory. Then after they meet humanity they now have full understanding how implant works and explot it to mind conrtrol. Another example of danger of implant highjacking other than Macross Galaxy was in Macross 30 where Ushio Todo able to mind control Zentradi which include Aisha via hacking implant.

And Ai reserach in Frontier have Alot of restriction and safety measure on AI as AI that Luca made are heavily shackle and not complete sentient unlike Siren systerm which fully sentient and no restriction

Also Eplison Foundation the one steal Star singer cell first which forced Lady M hand as they knew Eplison will use cell to clone Star singer first and knew about Eplison shady dealing especially their history with Macross Galaxy conspirator. In fact Lady M order Wright to stop Eplison to steal cell only which fail. Then Wright manage to take back some of the cell back. However Wright unable to return it to his friend Johann due to Independence war. Then Johann suggest to use cell to creat Mikumo to counter Eplison.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by charles88

[Ragashingo]

  On 10/2/2022 at 5:56 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

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For two, the bombing of Carlyle must have happened because that is how Bogue's family died and he DOES reference their deaths in this movie.

 

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The priest from Freyja's village says of Hayate's dad: "Worry not. He never did any harm to our people." That's a BIG CHANGE from dropping a fold bomb on them or whatever. And I take it to mean Bogue's town and family did die in the war, but in a much different way. 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Ragashingo

[Seto Kaiba]

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  On 10/2/2022 at 5:57 AM, charles88 said:

The reason why Zentradi able to use implant and cybernatic safely due to before meeting with human, [...]

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There is literally nothing to back that claim up.

 

  On 10/2/2022 at 5:57 AM, charles88 said:

Another example of danger of implant highjacking other than Macross Galaxy was in Macross 30 where Ushio Todo able to mind control Zentradi which include Aisha via hacking implant.

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He's able to control Aisha because she has a network implant in her brain, same as the people from Galaxy.  She was, again, the exception.

Havamal controlled others not via implants, but via the Sharon Apple system's hypnosis.

 

  On 10/2/2022 at 5:57 AM, charles88 said:

And Ai reserach in Frontier have Alot of restriction and safety measure on AI as AI that Luca made are heavily shackle and not complete sentient unlike Siren systerm which fully sentient and no restriction

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Wrong on a few counts.  First and foremost, the AI used on the Ghost X-9 is not sentient and never was.  Sharon was simply able to infiltrate and control it because it was based on developments made during the creation of the Sharon Apple system.  Luca's ghosts in the series are restricted to semi-autonomous operation until he lifts that restriction, but those ghosts are running the same AI software as the X-9.  The prototypes he's working on in the audio drama, however, DO have personalities and some awareness as a way to prevent them from going berserk.  The personality was safety feature, not a risk.

Also note that the Siren Delta System was unrestricted and yet had no operational issues to speak of.

 

 

  On 10/2/2022 at 5:57 AM, charles88 said:

Also Eplison Foundation the one steal Star singer cell first which forced Lady M hand as they knew Eplison will use cell to clone Star singer first and knew about Eplison shady dealing especially their history with Macross Galaxy conspirator. In fact Lady M order Wright to stop Eplison to steal cell only which fail. Then Wright manage to take back some of the cell back. However Wright unable to return it to his friend Johann due to Independence war. Then Johann suggest to use cell to creat Mikumo to counter Eplison.

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Which does NOTHING to change the fact that what Lady M did was massive hypocrisy and blatantly criminal under laws she herself forced on the New UN Gov't. 😉 

 

 

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  On 10/2/2022 at 6:02 AM, Ragashingo said:

The priest from Freyja's village says of Hayate's dad: "Worry not. He never did any harm to our people." That's a BIG CHANGE from dropping a fold bomb on them or whatever. And I take it to mean Bogue's town and family did die in the war, but in a much different way. 

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It's possible he simply didn't know who was piloting the VF-22 that destroyed Carlyle.

Or the writers simply forgot.  It would hardly be the only significant plot hole or self-contradiction in this movie.

 

[pengbuzz]

  On 10/2/2022 at 4:10 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

To answer, in spoiler tags naturally.

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Spoilers ahead.

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Yo ho ho and a bottle of Hey Don't Read This If You Don't Want It Spoiled!

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Yes.  They actually show the Megaroad-01 stuck in a fold fault using a super fold gate.

Also, yes, they show two women in a closeup shot of one of the ship's windows.

 

 

 

 

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Okay...

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Need to be secret-squirrel about this:

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WARNING: SPOILERIFFIC STUFF AHEAD:

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Now we're getting a wee bit ridiculous!:

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I need to find a screen shot of that!!

 

 

 

And the second one:

  On 10/2/2022 at 4:10 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

To answer, in spoiler tags naturally.

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Spoilers ahead.

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Yo ho ho and a bottle of Hey Don't Read This If You Don't Want It Spoiled!

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He's still dead.  Kaname briefly flashes back to a conversation with Messer right after they mention he died.

 

 

 

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Well...

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Do not pass go or collect 200 dollars

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Last chance to enter the Publisher's ClearingHouse Sweepstakes!

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And here I though they glued poor Messer back together or something! O.o

 

 

 

On another note:

  

  On 10/2/2022 at 4:24 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

OK, one open question... did anyone else feel like the movie had absolutely terrible audio editing?

Due to some emergency home repair I had to watch using the 2.0 PCM audio track and any time the focus of the music changed from Walkure to Yami-Q-Ray or vice versa it didn't so much fade as just hastily drop one song for the other in mid-syllable.  Is the mastering just really bad on the 2.0 or is the 5.1 similarly affected?

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I can relate to the "emergency home repairs" thing: about 2-3 weeks ago, a pipe for pour upstairs neighbor started leaking like crazy through the ceiling into the bathroom and also into my closet. Several scratchbuilt models were lost; no insurance and landlord/property manager could care less. Irreplaceable stuff, one of a kind built by me.

As for the audio on the movie: sounds like they ran out of "give a crap" about the audio.

Edited October 2, 2022 by pengbuzz

[Gendo Koun]

Different from you guys I am really enjoying this movie but I felt like its kinda rush in storytelling and short in running time.

[Chronocidal]

Eh.. I can say I was a sucker for the emotional bits, but yeah, this felt.. I don't know.  I guess I kind of enjoyed it, but only as long as I didn't try to think about any of it?

You know what I think might actually make a decent story?  Delete the Delta series, and rewrite it as two seasons, one based on each movie. 

The first movie felt better than the series for me because it deleted a lot of fluff, while streamlining some of the plot in a way that felt more sensible (but still iffy).

This movie.. felt like it needed an entire series to explain anything that was going on.  It ran at breakneck speed from point to point to point without any time to digest things.  Imagine the Itano Circus, but in the form of a JJ Abrams-style plot blitzkrieg that throws so many things at you so rapidly you don't have any time to think about how none of it makes any sense.

Music.. yeah, completely forgettable.  I was absolutely intrigued by the concept they teased with the "evil Walkure" and would have loved to see something actually done with it.. but nope, no time for that.

The villain was so out of left field, I actually thought they were pulling the name from the villains of Macross 30.. but nope, they just start with the same letter.

Also, fold waves have morphed into pure 100% unfiltered plot gobbledegook.  They do whatever you need, whenever you need, for whatever reason you can dream up.

For the spoilers though..

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Yeah, I enjoyed seeing Max in action.  It was entirely unbelievable, but I still enjoyed it.  Not even going to touch Megaroad and Lady M.

The idea that they were actually using the original prototype design of the Sharon Apple AI with biological components taken from the Star Singer is actually kind of a wild idea that I'm supremely disappointed we'll probably never hear about again.  The machine learning system they set up to counter Walkure was probably the most interesting idea in this entire series, and it got blasted into nothing before it was even explored.

I have to wonder about the entire population of Windermere contributing to Freya's song.  Imagine being an older citizen near death, and suddenly you get dragged into a sing-along that you realize is literally draining the life out of you.

Ok, so.. that ending.. did they literally just "Search for Spock" Freya?  Like, I have no freaking clue what just happened.  Somehow they had Protoculture cell samples implanted into an AI matrix, but it was also an artificial womb growing an embryo at break-neck speed through the course of the movie, that wound up as an infant by the end of two hours?  WTF?  And because Freya had her magical sing-along with the entire planet, the AI suddenly synched with Freya's mind/soul/fold-waves/ghost/spirit animal, and it somehow imprinted her as the physiological pattern?  WHAT EVEN IS BIOLOGY?  Is Hayate now raising a clone of Freya as a ... daughter?  Sister?  Future wife?  If she's a clone, she isn't related, but that ending is seriously squicking me out something fierce about what they intend their future to be.  I know they intended it to be adorable and heart-warming, but the pandora's box they opened with the accelerated Windermerean lifespan refuses to shut.

But.. yeah.  I think it was a fitting finale to Delta.  More dropped threads than an epileptic cross-stitch circle, mass-produced pop music on repeat, and the best parts were all stolen from a better series.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Chronocidal

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 10/3/2022 at 1:30 AM, Chronocidal said:

Also, fold waves have morphed into pure 100% unfiltered plot gobbledegook.  They do whatever you need, whenever you need, for whatever reason you can dream up.

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While I agree with almost everything you wrote, I will (sort of) speak in the movie's defense on this one point if only for the sake of fairness.

Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! is no different from the previous film or Macross Delta TV anime in the sense that it's not really doing much that's new or particularly novel with the franchise's setting or its technology.  In fact, these "new" fold wave-based performance improvements are lifted from the ending of the Macross Frontier movies the same way that the Macross Delta TV anime lifted most of the Macross Frontier TV anime's ending.  It's actually a lot worse in some ways because these technologies were also already present in Delta Flight's VF-31 Custom Siegfrieds and the Aerial Knights Sv-262s all along.  In the VF-31's case, it's THE feature that sets the Siegfried customs apart from the military's VF-31 Kairos that it's based on.

The long and short of it is that fold waves are used to manipulate the exotic matter that's produced and used in overtechnology that manipulates gravity.  Tech like gravity and inertia control units, thermonuclear reactors and engines, fold systems, barriers systems, and dimensional weapons like macross cannons and heavy quantum beam guns.  Fold quartz is a purer form of the fold carbon crystalline resonators used to produce that exotic matter, and when used in place of fold carbon it produces exotic matter that can exert more intense gravitational forces than normal (esp. if boosted by more powerful fold waves).  That allows for reactors to run hotter by compressing fuel more to produce more energy and greater thrust in engines, more intense fold effects that can cross fold faults, and more powerful dimensional weapons.  That is the basic principle behind the Fold Wave System that was introduced on the YF-29 in Macross Frontier: The Wings of Goodbye.  (Taken to the extreme, that is also how you make MDE weapons... instead of using regular heavy quanta and fold waves produced by fold carbon, you use fold quartz and the more potent fold waves it produces and with enough of it you can produce a super-intense fold effect like a temporary black hole.)

Delta Flight's VF-31 Custom Siegfrieds already had an economized and less capable version of the YF-29's Fold Wave System from the outset.  The Kairos Plus just increases the amount of fold quartz available to the system to improve its output.  The Sv-262 Draken III's had an even more economized system that used gravitational compression of exhaust flow as a sort of a pseudo-afterburner (that is copied on the Sv-303s) called a Fold Reheat system.  

All that's happened here is that Absolute Live!!!!!! is improving the economized versions of the tech already in use while Heimdall is applying the same technologies more broadly.

[Chronocidal]

Not wrong at all, it's been a progression of one-upping itself as a plot-device.  I think I just forgot how much it was already in use.

I think from a technical standpoint, fold waves made the most sense in Frontier (at the start), because they were treated as a sort of waveform somewhere in the EM spectrum.  Vajra happened to communicate on that wavelength, and Ranka and Sheryl's conditions allowed them to "speak" on that wavelength in a way that confused the Vajra, because it was like hearing garbled and confused telepathic messages transmitted by someone who didn't speak your language (none of them knew how to think in Russian, clearly).  Blasting out music carrying that waveform effectively worked as noise jamming against Vajra communications. 

In the end, it felt like it was turning spiritia from Macross 7 into an almost scientific concept.  I am, however, going to ignore the fact that if it's carried by live song, there's no reason a mic should pic it up, or speakers should amplify it, because they aren't designed to carry that wavelength.  They kind of danced around that point by just using the raw crystals as transmitters.

Now though.. between the Frontier movies and Delta, it's just approaching technobabble capabilities that would make the Enterprise-D's deflector dish jealous.  It's not just an energy form, it's also generated by raw emotion, and directly infusing that as a transmitted signal into your engines suddenly makes them more powerful, and routing it through the right headphones gives you extreme g-tolerance and spidey senses.

We've honestly reached peak Orky levels of tek here.  They turned an electromagnetic waveform into a way to convert emotions into an energy beam that grants people and machines superpowers.  Just imagine rewiring your car stereo directly into the engine, and getting a NOX-like boost effect from blasting power metal through the cylinders.

[Seto Kaiba]

Eh... as I said, all that stuff was already in Macross Frontier.  ALL of it.

Macross Delta just half-assed the explanation, so half an explanation of an established mechanic of the setting ended up sounding like a new and ill-conceived macguffin instead.

 

  On 10/3/2022 at 4:41 AM, Chronocidal said:

In the end, it felt like it was turning spiritia from Macross 7 into an almost scientific concept. 

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For the record, it was.  Macross Chronicle goes into more detail about Song Energy being a biological fold wave.

Macross 7, of course, went into a bit of detail about exactly HOW mechanical amplification is done (the amplifier being a modified fold system) and explicit connections between that and the fold amps used in Frontier and Delta are drawn in Macross E by no less a person than an all-grown-up Elma Hoyly, now in possession of a doctorate and working as a researcher studying biological fold waves and Var syndrome.

(It's also noted in Frontier that the fold wave emissions of the fleet's technology were a big part of how the Vajra were able to track the Frontier fleet... not just high-intensity fold waves from fold-wave radio and radar systems, but background emissions from gravity control, running reactors, and the like.)

[Chronocidal]

Hah, that's what I get for not digging into the external sources and side story material more often.  

The details about the exotic matter, and gravitational manipulation -do- make some sense from a technology standpoint, so I can appreciate that.  I've never read into the explanations of how it was related to all of the gravity-manipulation tech they've had since the SDF-1, but it does connect the dots pretty well.  I remembered the sound boosters from 7 being related to amplifying and broadcasting it, but didn't remember it was just adapted fold booster tech.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Chronocidal

[DownIsUp]

Damn I just finished this movie and really enjoyed it, came on here and now I feel like an a-hole for liking it lmao. Ah well I still feel it works better than anything else Delta related and it's easily the first time I've enjoyed a lot of the Walkure team. I think Hayate is a slightly more realised character here, although generally speaking he and a lot of other characters could've used more time to breathe, even with the first 30 minutes or so being setup. Idk that I'm a delta fan now but I certainly am more on board than I was before this movie.

[MKT]

Overall I just thought it was a wasted opportunity to make something great:

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I happen to split it into 2 sittings. First was up to when Delta Flight evacuated Windermere in Macross Gigasion. Up to this point, I thought the movie was pretty good. Things moved in a slower, deliberate pace, and it was nice to get reacquainted with the core characters again, before things gradually amped up as the Astrea appeared with the ensuing battle taking place showing how they were outclassed. Although, the big headscratcher was why did Bogue evacuate with the rest of Delta flight instead of remaining behind to protect his king?!

I continued the rest of movie the next day, and I was just.. bored. The storytelling was very middling, the whole production seem to be rushing through the motions without gelling stuff well. In the earlier Delta series, I understand the whole 2nd half was last minute decision & therefore a rushed production, but for this movie everything could have been planned better since they had time.

One of main gripes, would be the valk battles. I thought animation as a medium allows things to be tweaked indefinitely until some form of perfection (like say, most Pixar movies), but the valk battles moves sooooo fast that I could hardly follow what is happening on screen. Here you have Kawamori painstakingly designing the gorgeous valks, but the way they are depicted on screen, I bet you could swap it for any other valks in Macross universe and casual non Macross-inclined viewers won't notice. 

The best valk sequence was ironically the very first minute, when it shows the SV-303 powering up and showing segments of it up close. During the battles, especially in its other modes, I could only just about tell what I'm looking at because I already know what they look like from earlier CG renders, and that goes with the other valks as well. My mind kept wandering back to the 3D remakes for the Pachinko machines, and thinking how much better those valk sequences were animated & it's not due to nostalgia for the OG characters or valks.

As others mentioned, the new songs were also very forgettable, although when Delta first came out, I didn't really warm up to the songs then either. It was only as the show got on, and later seeing the larger real-life concerts the Walkure ladies put on that won me over.

 

 

[100mega]

  On 10/4/2022 at 3:50 AM, DownIsUp said:

Damn I just finished this movie and really enjoyed it, came on here and now I feel like an a-hole for liking it lmao. Ah well I still feel it works better than anything else Delta related and it's easily the first time I've enjoyed a lot of the Walkure team. I think Hayate is a slightly more realised character here, although generally speaking he and a lot of other characters could've used more time to breathe, even with the first 30 minutes or so being setup. Idk that I'm a delta fan now but I certainly am more on board than I was before this movie.

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I liked it a lot too as someone who had near zero love for Delta. I found that I liked the action more after I watched it again without subtitles. Lyrics and dialogue take up too much of the screen to properly enjoy the battles. And it must have done something right as it made me have an affinity for the characters which I've never felt before. Somehow I also ended up liking Walkure's songs too! I couldn't resist the hype when these lyrics popped up:

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That son of a bitch, You son of a bitch

That song is just amazing hahah

[NightmarePlus]

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I was sorta meh on the movie too. How the hell did the baby, who was cloned using Star Singer DNA same as Mikumo, ended up becoming a Windermeran or is the rune just cosmetic? 
Final battle was meh too, Frontier did theirs a hell of a lot better. What's with the smaller escort ships in Delta not engaging each other with their main weapons and just sit around doing nothing or just firing off AA?

 

[charles88]

  On 10/2/2022 at 6:35 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

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There is literally nothing to back that claim up.

 

He's able to control Aisha because she has a network implant in her brain, same as the people from Galaxy.  She was, again, the exception.

Havamal controlled others not via implants, but via the Sharon Apple system's hypnosis.

 

Wrong on a few counts.  First and foremost, the AI used on the Ghost X-9 is not sentient and never was.  Sharon was simply able to infiltrate and control it because it was based on developments made during the creation of the Sharon Apple system.  Luca's ghosts in the series are restricted to semi-autonomous operation until he lifts that restriction, but those ghosts are running the same AI software as the X-9.  The prototypes he's working on in the audio drama, however, DO have personalities and some awareness as a way to prevent them from going berserk.  The personality was safety feature, not a risk.

Also note that the Siren Delta System was unrestricted and yet had no operational issues to speak of.

 

 

Which does NOTHING to change the fact that what Lady M did was massive hypocrisy and blatantly criminal under laws she herself forced on the New UN Gov't. 😉 

 

 

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It's possible he simply didn't know who was piloting the VF-22 that destroyed Carlyle.

Or the writers simply forgot.  It would hardly be the only significant plot hole or self-contradiction in this movie.

 

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Zentradi lore already stated that their technology never change for thousand of years due to their created to be soldier race and no culture. So implant technology also never changes as well. The implant network after all was created after Zentradi intergrades with humanity.

Also the Siren system did in the end turn against her master after she linked with other Windermere. Siren system is by far the most SEDIOUS and most Unehical weapon system i ever seen as it broke So many ethical and human right law, its not even funny. Because its uses BABY as the main component for Siren System. Clone or Not, It's STILL a baby and they also added cybernetic and illegal AI to control it. 

Speaking of cell, Lady M has actually tasked Wright to just retrieve Star Singer call back from Eplison. Wrigh only able to retrieve some of it at the cause of his life and knowing Eplison will use the cell for creating weapon, Lady M is forced to use cell to create Mikumo to fight fire with fire. Just imagine what happens to Delta without Mikumo as they most likely will lose to Heimdall and Frejya will die a lot sooner. Also Lady M at least treat Mikumo as an equal human right and send Mikumo to join Walkure to learn emotion and bond and make her grow into adult while Heimdall and Eplison agent treat that Baby in Siren system as no more than tool. Just imagine what haapen if you allow unrestrictive cloning, cybernetic and AI research to do. Mass produce those babies and use it as war.

 

[charles88]

  On 10/4/2022 at 9:31 PM, NightmarePlus said:

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I was sorta meh on the movie too. How the hell did the baby, who was cloned using Star Singer DNA same as Mikumo, ended up becoming a Windermeran or is the rune just cosmetic? 
Final battle was meh too, Frontier did theirs a hell of a lot better. What's with the smaller escort ships in Delta not engaging each other with their main weapons and just sit around doing nothing or just firing off AA?

 

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The Star singer caell are most likely incomplete, so Eplison add Windermre DNA as they have most sensitive Fold sensor. Also they dont care that baby have short lifespan as tey treat it as noting more than tool of weapon.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 10/3/2022 at 5:08 AM, Chronocidal said:

I remembered the sound boosters from 7 being related to amplifying and broadcasting it, but didn't remember it was just adapted fold booster tech.

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Oh, not a fold booster... the original fold amp used by Sound Force was a converted starship-grade fold system.  It was several stories tall.

They got smaller over the next ~20 years, until they could be mounted on a VF.

 

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  On 10/4/2022 at 9:31 PM, NightmarePlus said:

I was sorta meh on the movie too. How the hell did the baby, who was cloned using Star Singer DNA same as Mikumo, ended up becoming a Windermeran or is the rune just cosmetic? 

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Even in the series, they kind of imply there's some connection between the Protoculture's Star Singers and Windermere IV's Wind Singers... it's possible Windermerean DNA was derived from the Star Singer's in the first place.

 

 

 

[kalvasflam]

Oh, my other post got nuked... 🤕

Anyway, going back to the one question that I had, what is considered Macross F canon these days, the movie or the series?  Cause the short made it look like the movie is canon, which kinda sucks.

Max is what makes the Delta movie in my opinion, otherwise, it's reminiscent of the series.  Mediocre.  The schooling makes me wonder if Kawamori had an advanced screening of Top Gun: Maverick.

The difference is in the planes as well, why the hell does Kawamori insist on adding more and more crap to the VF-31, or for that matter, any of the Valks.  I mean at this point, those things might as well be flying bricks.  It's like loading up a McLaren with extra spoilers, eyelashes for headlights, extra bling everywhere, roof racks.  You may as well have called the thing Nu Gundam at this point.

At least the Durandal had the courtesy of still looking like an airplane, and not a damned flying brick.

Edited October 5, 2022 by kalvasflam

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 10/5/2022 at 3:42 AM, kalvasflam said:

Anyway, going back to the one question that I had, what is considered Macross F canon these days, the movie or the series?  Cause the short made it look like the movie is canon, which kinda sucks.

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Macross runs on broad strokes continuity at the best of times.

The word "canon" is almost meaningless to it... and the "truth" of any given scenario in the next work is almost always somewhere in the middle.

For instance, the TV and DYRL? versions of the VF-1 coexist as two different production blocks of the in-universe VF-1.  Exsedol's TV and DYRL? appearances are both said to be right with the more humanlike one being what he looks like without his Records Officer genetic mods.  Macross 7's dramatization of the First Space War has a movie Vrlitwhai next to a TV Quamzin.  Macross Frontier shows a Zentradi NUNSM unit using a mixture of TV and DYRL? equipment.  Macross the Ride and Macross Delta's TV series both take a middle-of-the-road approach to Frontier with the YF-29 being prominently mentioned and the latter showing the TV ending of Frontier with a movie Sheryl and Ranka and Alto's YF-29.

Macross Chronicle's timeline favors the shows, but references to the movies sneak in everywhere anyway... especially in the technical setting.  

 

  On 10/5/2022 at 3:42 AM, kalvasflam said:

Max is what makes the Delta movie in my opinion, otherwise, it's reminiscent of the series.  Mediocre.  The schooling makes me wonder if Kawamori had an advanced screening of Top Gun: Maverick.

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Max and Milia schooling the best aces around has been a running joke since Macross 7.  Poor Gamlin got that s*** in stereo having Milia for a teacher, then reporting to Max before being transferred temporarily to Milia's command.

 

  On 10/5/2022 at 3:42 AM, kalvasflam said:

The difference is in the planes as well, why the hell does Kawamori insist on adding more and more crap to the VF-31, or for that matter, any of the Valks.  I mean at this point, those things might as well be flying bricks.

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... the Armored Pack has ALWAYS been a flying brick going back as far as the original series.  

Technologically, the 4th Generation VFs were the point where VFs no longer truly needed Super Packs to have a reasonable operation time in space.  The 5th Generation reversed the equation so that Super Packs were no longer about justifying huge boosters and fuel tanks with a handful of missiles but having boosters and fuel tanks to offset a huge amount of additional weaponry.  The VF-31's Armored Pack is just badly-designed serial escalation of that design philosophy that looks like someone took every spare part in a model builder's bits bin and glued them to it.  The base VF-31 design is some of Kawamori's best work... to the extent that it makes any bolt-on extras look even uglier because they detract from its gorgeous lines.

Part of the problem is, I think, that the VF-31 custom Siegfried type was pitched as a less-heavily-armed version of the VF-31 meant for close air support and flight demonstrations and they're overcompensating for that down the road.

[charles88]

  On 10/2/2022 at 6:35 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

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There is literally nothing to back that claim up.

 

He's able to control Aisha because she has a network implant in her brain, same as the people from Galaxy.  She was, again, the exception.

Havamal controlled others not via implants, but via the Sharon Apple system's hypnosis.

 

Wrong on a few counts.  First and foremost, the AI used on the Ghost X-9 is not sentient and never was.  Sharon was simply able to infiltrate and control it because it was based on developments made during the creation of the Sharon Apple system.  Luca's ghosts in the series are restricted to semi-autonomous operation until he lifts that restriction, but those ghosts are running the same AI software as the X-9.  The prototypes he's working on in the audio drama, however, DO have personalities and some awareness as a way to prevent them from going berserk.  The personality was safety feature, not a risk.

Also note that the Siren Delta System was unrestricted and yet had no operational issues to speak of.

 

 

Which does NOTHING to change the fact that what Lady M did was massive hypocrisy and blatantly criminal under laws she herself forced on the New UN Gov't. 😉 

 

 

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It's possible he simply didn't know who was piloting the VF-22 that destroyed Carlyle.

Or the writers simply forgot.  It would hardly be the only significant plot hole or self-contradiction in this movie.

 

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Well Movie version of Macross tend to change story and contradict with series lore like Sheryl in movie are actually reluctant colleberator with Macross Galaxy conspirator and Grace actually grew care for Sheryl so much that she willing to give up her revenge and do not erase her happy memories with Sheryl or DYRL where Zentradi plot and design completely change.

 

Also I kinda love Full Armored pack VF-31 as I considered natural evolution from VF-25 Armored. Even VF Armored pack are boxy and VF- 1 super pack also boxy and unaerodynamic.

But my most favourite pack is Super Ghost pack. What do you guys think of Super Ghost Pack

Edited October 5, 2022 by charles88

[RangerKarl]

Re: papa Immelmann whitewashing
 

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I think in this movie's continuity he never dropped the Bomb, just nicked the gene samples.

 

Anyway I quite enjoyed it. It's no SnT but it'll do.

Things I enjoyed were

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Bogue throwing out Sheryl's line, and the training scene. I'm fairly sure somebody was copying someone else's HUD scene during one chase sequence.