Star Wars Disney+ limited TV Series

[Mog]

36 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

But...but....the show has established Vader's desire to find him specifically...Obi Wan was his to deal with....it took 10 years to formulate this grand plan....and to add insult to injury....to tweak the plan to "work" took some former Padawan who was apparently found in the gutters somewhere....It all makes sense only if you.....

Keep drinking the Star Wars kool-aid!  LOL

 

Straw-man argument, much? 

All I’m pointing out is that neither the Inquisitors nor Vader know Obi was hiding out on Tatooine.

And a connection between Bail and Obi is tenuous at best, based on what’s been shown in Clone Wars.  

You could argue a connection between Bail and Yoda (being spotted after the Senate Duel), but there’s not much there.

Now why Vader didn’t check out or follow up on his step-brother?  Who knows.  But that’s been an issue since ROTS.

 

[Tking22]

It's a bummer this series is so divisive, it should've been a smash hit, no-brainer easy win for Disney+. Unfortunately I said the same about Book of Boba, and while not terrible, and I don't think Obi-Wan is terrible either, both series have been pretty disappointing overall. 

[Big s]

39 minutes ago, Tking22 said:

It's a bummer this series is so divisive, it should've been a smash hit, no-brainer easy win for Disney+. Unfortunately I said the same about Book of Boba, and while not terrible, and I don't think Obi-Wan is terrible either, both series have been pretty disappointing overall. 

Yeah, so far the best of these shows has been the Mandalorian. It probably benefits greatly by not using an established character. All these prequel and sequel things are a mess. The best of the franchise mainly does it’s own thing off to the side.

[levzloi]

3 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Yeah, yeah....I know...it's Star Wars...leave all logic behind and come veg with us for a while....

But don't fans deserve better than to be expected to accept mediocrity?...(looks at latest videos of the lightsaber wielding crowds at Star Wars Celebration)....

Nevermind...

Yes, yes they do, and honestly if LucasFilm/Disney really cared about their investment or their intellectually property, they'd be investing in better writing/writers, but it's pretty apparent that quality is not one of their priorities. 

[Tking22]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

Yeah, so far the best of these shows has been the Mandalorian. It probably benefits greatly by not using an established character. All these prequel and sequel things are a mess. The best of the franchise mainly does it’s own thing off to the side.

I feel Mando gets to have his cake and eat it too so to speak. He's not a returning character so he's not really beholden to strict continuity, and yet he gets to interact with the big name legacy characters like Luke and Ahsoka, he's still firmly in the "bigger picture". It doesn't hurt that the whole wandering cowboy/Lone Wolf and Cub thing just works really well, the whole space cowboy thing was what I would've expected from a Boba show before Mandalorian happened. Poor Boba, they just didn't really know what to do with him besides bring him back and get him back in his armor. 

[Dynaman]

2 hours ago, Tking22 said:

It's a bummer this series is so divisive, it should've been a smash hit, no-brainer easy win for Disney+. Unfortunately I said the same about Book of Boba, and while not terrible, and I don't think Obi-Wan is terrible either, both series have been pretty disappointing overall. 

The reason it is divisive is due to the problem introduced when Lucas decided to make Darth Vader the father of Luke.  That and making Leia his sister left a massive hole in the exposition and logic.  The original movies, not focusing on it, managed to more or less steer clear of the potholes.  Doing backstory leaves them no choice but to drive right over them.

Personally I find the show decent, though the fight with Vader was pathetic - granted it is ten years since the last fight and Obi is not in the best practice but he can't have gotten THAT bad.

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, Mog said:

All I’m pointing out is that neither the Inquisitors nor Vader know Obi was hiding out on Tatooine.

 

Kool-Aid man,  that you? LOL

Newsflash....All of the surviving Jedi are in hiding and they don't know where any of them are! Imagine that!

The whole existence of the Inquisitors is to ferret them out, no?  Again, because they are in hiding....Obi Wan being no different...as such, of course they wouldn't know he was on Tatooine....but location doesn't matter though, as the Jedi, according to the Inquisitors, hunt themselves....again, not sure why pointing out that neither Vader or the Inquisitors know that Obi Wan was on Tatooine is relevant...

But this is going away from my original argument, which was that only an imminent threat to Luke's safety should have forced him off-planet....the canon is so busted now that as someone else pointed out....less is now looking better...the more they keep adding to the backstory, the more the existing canon starts to crumble and make less sense than before....

We know Obi Wan was a "crazy old hermit" when we first heard of him in ANH....but by the end, he was a wise old badass.....did we really need to know that he was a butcher on Tattooine for years?  Did we really need him to have a "rematch of the century" with Vader, even if the going assumption was, rightly so, that their last encounter was seen in ROTS...seriously, the concept of the "rematch of the century" just shites on that last epic battle between them and lessens the impact of their final confrontation....it's literally the worst gimmick yet to come out of Disney's Star Wars...none of this adds to the story as we already know...it just makes it more convoluted....the only thing that matters is where it all ends up....which is why The Mandalorian, although the best series so far, is also meaningless....that time period is simply building up to the Sequel Trilogy....

Disney has no clue how to recover from the Sequel Trilogy other than more of these backfill stories that take place before the ST and for the most part, during the Galactic Empire’s reign or immediately after it....but they know that for Star Wars to really grow...it needs to get past the Skywalker Era...so far....nothing they have planned is venturing into  completely new territory that leads into events that we are not already familiar with...

 

 

[Thom]

Okay, well this has gotten stupid.

[Big s]

3 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Personally I find the show decent, though the fight with Vader was pathetic - granted it is ten years since the last fight and Obi is not in the best practice but he can't have gotten THAT bad.

That fight was pathetic on both sides. Did Vaders battery pack wear out or something at the end?

[azrael]

Yes, this argument has gotten stupid. How about you kids stop and come back after this show has finished in 3 weeks. Or do I have to boot you kids.

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, Dynaman said:

The reason it is divisive is due to the problem introduced when Lucas decided to make Darth Vader the father of Luke.  That and making Leia his sister left a massive hole in the exposition and logic.  The original movies, not focusing on it, managed to more or less steer clear of the potholes.  Doing backstory leaves them no choice but to drive right over them.

Personally I find the show decent, though the fight with Vader was pathetic - granted it is ten years since the last fight and Obi is not in the best practice but he can't have gotten THAT bad.

100% correct.....too much backstory is muddling up what was already good to begin with and should have been just left alone....it's like George tinkering with his Special Editions, except those tweaks did not cause issues with the established canon, story, or things that really did not need convoluted explanations.........I'll keep watching because they still could possibly stick the landing somehow

[Magnus]

So halfway through, this series is a bit of a mixed-bag for me.  I get everyone's arguments, and I think (as others have pointed out), the script and filming could have used one more pass or so to polish it up.  Things like Leia being able to escape the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Obi-Wan so easily, Reva parkouring over half the city to reach a place that was literally only a few minutes away, yet next episode magically teleporting ahead of Leia in the escape tunnel are frustrating.  Vader using the Force to levitate Obi-Wan and put out the fire and then seemingly forgetting he was able to do both of those things literally less than 30 seconds later are downright inexcusable.  Letting that rebel lady get off a second shot after taking so long from the first one.  I really don't understand - who are these people who are scripting these things?  Stuff that seems head-slappingly obvious to me somehow got missed by the writers, the director, the actors and the editors?  I *know* i'm not a smart guy - i'm average at best, but more and more I walk away from Disney Star Wars feeling like i'm some sort of genius or something for noticing what should be obvious and absolutely fatal flaws in the narrative.  Are the creatives in charge really that stupid or just lazy or both?  As I type this out I keep thinking of more inconsistencies and it's making me more irritated...

All that said, just seeing Ewan and Hayden on screen is a joy.  Hearing JEJ's voice coming out of Vader's helmet strong and powerful (not like in Rogue One) is music to my ears.  "I am what you made me" makes all the other nonsense I noted above almost worthwhile, and I feel this series actually helps explain why Obi-Wan and Vader had so little to say to each other (or surprise, on Obi-Wan's part at Vader being alive) when they met in the Death Star in ANH - they've already said what needs to be said, gotten things out of their system, and are both clearly there as adversaries with their own personal goals and missions.  I can respect that, especially if the final episodes give us a renewed and powerful Obi-Wan and a Vader who get into a slap-down, drag-out fight.  

Every time this show cuts away from Obiwan and Vader, my interest levels crater.  I could give less than a singular frakk about Reva, young Leia, or really anyone else in the series besides those two.  This should have been a movie, not a TV series. 

 

 

 

[tekering]

Tell me if this sounds familiar:

The original film series was the sci-fi merchandising giant of the seventies, with both live-action and animated TV series spin-offs.  Decades later, a prequel trilogy of films was released.   The TV series is set years before the original film (but acts as a sequel to the prequel films), featuring a principle actor from the movies interacting with a host of new characters.  The story meanders from one rural village of oppressed farmers to another, as our hero and his allies are hunted by the authorities (represented by one recurring ineffectual bad guy).  

No, I'm not talking about Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi...

Spoiler

 

 

[Thom]

Either Vader was Worfed or he is just relishing the chase and the final vengeance over Obi-Wan, and so doesn't mind him getting away a time or two. Doesn't really jive, I know, seeing how it has taken ten years just to get to him again, but there you have it.

Still, great seeing him again, and so that makes some 'issues' more acceptable. Like Vader's passageway scene in Rogue 1, just showing him as a complete juggernaut, and yet fouling the way they start chasing Leia's ship from the start of ANH.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

he is just relishing the chase and the final vengeance over Obi-Wan, and so doesn't mind him getting away a time or two

That’s just making excuses for terrible writing 

[Tking22]

Either Vader was Worfed or he is just relishing the chase and the final vengeance over Obi-Wan, and so doesn't mind him getting away a time or two. Doesn't really jive, I know, seeing how it has taken ten years just to get to him again, but there you have it.

That's the only way I can interpret it as well, Vader is fine with some cat and mouse now that Obi is flushed out, otherwise he could've and should've just walked through the fire to grab him back. Couldn't he have just force grabbed him again as well?

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

That’s just making excuses for terrible writing 

[jvmacross]

As suspected....you need to read the books and comics to fill in the plotholes...

https://screenrant.com/obi-wan-kenobi-anakin-survive-explained-details/

The fact that this article even exists means others are also asking the same questions....

I don't mind books and comics for side stories, but I don't think they should be required reading...the shows/movies should be able to make logical sense on their own....

Basically, the writers took the easy route and just made Obi Wan an idiot from the get-go....good thing for him, in the Star Wars universe, the writers make sure the  Empire is filled with even bigger idiots....

[azrael]

47 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

As suspected....you need to read the books and comics to fill in the plotholes...

https://screenrant.com/obi-wan-kenobi-anakin-survive-explained-details/

The fact that this article even exists means others are also asking the same questions....

As much as it is easy to blame the writers for this, I'm blaming the audience for that one point. There is a narrative beat showing Obi-wan's day 3 times in one episode. Did the audience not see his day was wash-rinse-repeat?

[sqidd]

 

[Thom]

2 hours ago, jvmacross said:

As suspected....you need to read the books and comics to fill in the plotholes...

https://screenrant.com/obi-wan-kenobi-anakin-survive-explained-details/

The fact that this article even exists means others are also asking the same questions....

I don't mind books and comics for side stories, but I don't think they should be required reading...the shows/movies should be able to make logical sense on their own....

Basically, the writers took the easy route and just made Obi Wan an idiot from the get-go....good thing for him, in the Star Wars universe, the writers make sure the  Empire is filled with even bigger idiots....

This I definitely agree with. There shouldn't be any reason to have to read tie-in books or comics. The story should be encapsulated in one medium, without forcing people to buy more to just follow along.

 

4 hours ago, jvmacross said:

This, I believe, was one of the tributes to Carrie Fisher after she died. I really wish I had been there with my lightsaber...

6 hours ago, Big s said:

That’s just making excuses for terrible writing 

The part of my post that was not quoted answers this that was in response to the part that was...

Edited June 3, 2022 by Thom

[Big s]

2 hours ago, sqidd said:

 

There was so much going wrong that I didn’t even think about that stupid laser fence. If he’s not gonna drive through it he could have walked a few feet around it.

I guess I was still caught off guard that the heroic obi would block a blaster shot with a farmer

[jvmacross]

4 hours ago, azrael said:

As much as it is easy to blame the writers for this, I'm blaming the audience for that one point. There is a narrative beat showing Obi-wan's day 3 times in one episode. Did the audience not see his day was wash-rinse-repeat?

So basically, they are following the same formula they used for Luke Skywalker....Uber Jedi loses his mojo and then he is depicted in a way that no one would have guessed (except, love or hate it, at least it was shocking the first time)....yes, the audience is to blame if they keep accepting more helpings of the same slop from Disney's lazy writers, it seems they are just phoning it in now ....but I guess as long as their target audience is cool with it....

[jvmacross]

 

[sh9000]

 

[Big s]

Another odd question I have about this show is that it seems as though he wasn’t using the force out of fear of being detected. Yet he seemed pretty eager to start training Luke. Wouldn’t that have made Luke an easy target? 

[azrael]

8 hours ago, jvmacross said:

So basically, they are following the same formula they used for Luke Skywalker....

I'm referring to this part of the article:

Quote

In an interview with The Wrap, Obi-Wan Kenobi series writer Joby Harold explains exactly how Obi-Wan went so long without knowing his former apprentice not only survived but was still active. While not in the writer's initial pitch, he eventually discovered when they were writing that this was an avenue that could be explored and consulted Lucasfilm Story Group executive and Obi-Wan Kenobi creative consultant Pablo Hildago on if this would violate any canon. Harold added that this story point allowed for an added depth for McGregor to have in his performance. Harold said:

...

...This also lines up with recent additions to the Star Wars canon through various books and comics ...

There's no need rely on supplemental material (which I also hate) if it's showed on screen, which it is. It's easy to blame the writers, but if the audience didn't understand the repetitive nature of the narrative (three times they showed work, train ride home, get on his "horse" and go home, wash-rinse-repeat with only minor variations), that's the fault of the audience. 

[Dobber]

I don’t mind him not knowing about Vader….Obi-wan was essentially in isolation on a backwater planet. I do, however, find it odd that he never used the force, even when alone in his cave to keep some of his skills alive. Like @Big s said he wants to train Luke but he allowed his abilities to become so atrofied  that he could barely save Leia. I just personally don’t like that he essentially cut himself off from the Force, even in private. Not saying he needed to go around using mind tricks and make stuff float etc when in public….but alone in his cave is another thing. How did he plan on training or helping Luke when the time or trouble came?

Chris

[jvmacross]

6 hours ago, Big s said:

Another odd question I have about this show is that it seems as though he wasn’t using the force out of fear of being detected. Yet he seemed pretty eager to start training Luke. Wouldn’t that have made Luke an easy target? 

 

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

I don’t mind him not knowing about Vader….Obi-wan was essentially in isolation on a backwater planet. I do, however, find it odd that he never used the force, even when alone in his cave to keep some of his skills alive. Like @Big s said he wants to train Luke but he allowed his abilities to become so atrofied  that he could barely save Leia. I just personally don’t like that he essentially cut himself off from the Force, even in private. Not saying he needed to go around using mind tricks and make stuff float etc when in public….but alone in his cave is another thing. How did he plan on training or helping Luke when the time or trouble came?

Chris

Forget about having to train him later....what about having to protect him against another Sithlord during the 19 years before he can actually kickoff Luke's training?  Did he forget about the "Rule of Two"?  In his mind (according to the show)  Anakin died on Mustafar so he is aware of the possibility of Darth Sidious replacing Darth Vader is high...He knows it because it happened when Darth Maul and Darth Tyranus were killed...heck...Sithlords are his "speciality"... Obi Wan knows the Sith play the long game....so he should have know that he would never be able to let his guard down or "go soft"....once again, the writers are going against the nature of the established characters just for the sake of shock value, which in this case no longer is shocking...it's just dumb....Yoda too apparently must have cried himself to sleep on Dagobah for 19 years until Luke arrived....we'll see that when they screw with his character in  his TV spinoff! LOL

 

[jvmacross]

5 hours ago, azrael said:

I'm referring to this part of the article:

There's no need rely on supplemental material (which I also hate) if it's showed on screen, which it is. It's easy to blame the writers, but if the audience didn't understand the repetitive nature of the narrative (three times they showed work, train ride home, get on his "horse" and go home, wash-rinse-repeat with only minor variations), that's the fault of the audience. 

The most important thing from that article was that it seems to imply that the writer himself originally had his doubts (rightly so) about Obi Wan not knowing Vader/ Anakin had survived and was out there doing his Sith thing....so he decides to ask the idiots at Lucasfilm "Story" Group (likely in fear of being sh!t- canned for "creative differences" like so many before him) who he is now essentially blaming for how the OWK show unfolded.....in short, he is establishing his defense for any potential criticism: "don't blame me...my hands were tied"...

[Dynaman]

The "Wash, Rinse, Repeat" montage just shows that Ben's cover identity has lasted a long time.  It in no way explains how he is so badly out of practice.  As for Luke, he would need to train him simply to teach Luke how to hide his ability.  Though even that is a right mess between the original Star Wars (no signs of ability AT ALL till trained) and later shows making it apparent a person with Luke's potential is going to show obvious signs long before they turn 19.

[Roy Focker]

Similarities/Differences between Kenobi and Book of Boba Fett.

Both feature a fan favorite character.

Both were written as smart in the movies but dumb in their TV series. Luckly other characters are just as stupid.

At least Kenobi does stuff. Which is nice. The writing is bad but I'm fine as long I get to see him acting as Kenobi and doing Jedi stuff. Boba didn't do much in his show and it was hijacked by Mando. What are the chances they pull a Mando and Ahsoka or Andor shows up in the last episode of Kenobi as a way for Disney to promote their shows?

 

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, jvmacross said:

 

Forget about having to train him later....what about having to protect him against another Sithlord during the 19 years before he can actually kickoff Luke's training?  Did he forget about the "Rule of Two"?  In his mind (according to the show)  Anakin died on Mustafar so he is aware of the possibility of Darth Sidious replacing Darth Vader is high...He knows it because it happened when Darth Maul and Darth Tyranus were killed...heck...Sithlords are his "speciality"... Obi Wan knows the Sith play the long game....so he should have know that he would never be able to let his guard down or "go soft"....once again, the writers are going against the nature of the established characters just for the sake of shock value, which in this case no longer is shocking...it's just dumb....Yoda too apparently must have cried himself to sleep on Dagobah for 19 years until Luke arrived....we'll see that when they screw with his character in  his TV spinoff! LOL

 

Just to add more context on why Obi Wan's current disposition makes no sense at all is the fact that he was personally involved in eliminating the only 2 Sith to appear in the galaxy for generations....the stakes were too high and given the known precedent he personally had first-hand knowledge of...there is no way he would have buried his lightsabers and head in the sand and conclude that would be the best way to ensure the Jedi could possibly "return" one day...

[Big s]

4 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

At least Kenobi does stuff. Which is nice. The writing is bad but I'm fine as long I get to see him acting as Kenobi and doing Jedi stuff.

He didn’t do stuff for an entire episode and when he does, it’s no that he wanted to. He also did things in the least heroic of ways. Boba Fett oddly did more heroic deeds in his first few minutes of his show. I pointed out on an earlier page that he tries to save a fellow hostage, spares a few lives and even gives out employment. The other thing that the not so great show had that this one lacks, is like able characters to offset the annoying ones. So far in the obi show  the kid is annoying the bad guys are annoying and obi is not even a hero or competent , everyone else is full of a sass other than maybe the farmer that he used to block a blaster shot.Both shows are in the not great category and obi so far is just bad, I’m hoping it gets better since they only gave it few short episodes and we’re already on to the last half and mando can’t rescue this one.

[Mog]

Honestly, I’ve found the kid to pretty much match what I’d expect out of a young Leia:  a little too blunt and perceptive for her own good, someone who tends to take charge of the situation, and not listen to other’s words of caution.  Basically what we’ve seen from the OT.

I’m assuming the farmer you’re referencing is the one from this past week’s episode, right?  Yeah, Obi used him as a shield.  

But could have swore the Stormie’s infamous poor aim missed completely.  And Obi wound up pistol-whipping the farmer/driver unconscious afterward.

Not saying the show doesn’t have any flaws, but the overall premise hasn’t bothered me as much.

I’ve always found the Inquisitors to basically be Stormtroopers with Force powers.  Even in Rebels, they weren’t this monster threat;  they were basically mid-tier fodder for the heroes to beat.  So, their incompetence here isn’t as annoying, since I never held them in high regard before.