Roys Death.

[KingNor]

i was just wondering. now that i think about it, i think the way roy dies in the tv was done poorly. i'm actually a fan of the ungloryous death of the tv show as opposed to the drunken heroic death in the dyrl movie. BUT, heres my problem:

i felt that they didn't properly work up to it. i realize they showed some ground crew looking wide eyed into the cockpit, but thats it? i mean, he was supposedly haveing massive internal bleeding or something right? that hurts ALOT to the point of incapasitateing someone. and he's just walkin around like its nothing till he drops dead.

my opinion is that the writers wasted a great opprotunity for some good storytelling, what do you think?

[ArchVile]

you don't feel much internal bleeding, the majority of your sensory nerves are on the outside of your body, so he'd fell the shots go into him, but I doubt that he'd feel the hemoraging inside. I know it's true with the brain, you can get something lodged in your brain, you'll feel it go in, but you won't feel it inside, you'll just feel the pain of the entry point.

So I might be wrong with internal hemoraging in the thoracic cavity (sorry gotta practice Anatomy, exams coming up soon) but I would assume that you don't have sensory nerves inside your body.

[valkyrietestpilot]

shock would also deaden his perception of the true nature of his wounds.i'm a surgical tech for animals & they react the same way people do.you'd be surprised how alert & active a dog with his head split open by an axe would be.roy very well could have died before he realized how bad off he was.especially if the muscle wall that seperates the abdomen from the chest cavity was ruptured.it's pressureized to keep your lungs able to work.although if that happened to you,you'd only be a little sore & not knowing what was wrong with you.it's symptoms are easily missed,even by a doctor without trauma experience.so,aside from not being very detailed,his death on t.v. was based in truth

[Hurin]

Always seemed perfectly well-done to me. In war, there is rarely a nice dramatic "working up" to the point where you suddenly get taken out. Rather, it happens, in an instant.

At least they gave Roy the extra time to go to the woman he loved and spend his last moments with her, rather than hopelesslyl clinging to life, hooked up to machines, as doctors tear his body apart. . .

H

[HG Blows]

I didn't like his death at all. You'd think there would be a blood trail all the way to Claudia's room or some intestines or something. He should of gone down in a duel or quick style like Kakizaki in DYRL.

[Roy Focker]

Thank you valkyrietestpilot. Finally someone with something of medical background going with the shock theory. Too many people try to go with the he knew he was dying and wanted to spend time with his love ones.

And besides with the amount of booze he drinks I'm sure he wouldn't have felt that much pain.

[Pat Payne]

But still... wouldn't someone else on the ship have noticed three large ragged holes in his back?

[valkyrietestpilot]

it very easily could have been overlooked.he probably only passed valk techs & service crew along the way.they WOULD NOT know what to look for medically even if he had lacerations on his back.especially if he waved them away with a "i'm o.k.,don't bother me look". he was tough & probably didn't want some med tech doting over him like some worried mother.severe internal injuries of the kind to rupture your diaphram usually aren't presented with severe,dissabitating pain.that's why the docs in the e.r. run tests even if you say your o.k. cause the ruptured diaphram & other injuries like it cause the damage much later after the injury.miss that on the initial exam & you have a dead patient. air could also be leaking from a ruptured lung & cause you to slowly sufficate.think about it,your lungs are pressurized so the can expand & contract.if 1 ruptures,it'll slowly loose it's ability to expand & you'll start to pass out from lack of oxygen & then ur a gonner.poor roy,i feel bad for him.his injuries could have been treated effectively if caught right away.that way,he would have gone on to be a great hero for the whole war,instead of just the opening salvos

[valkyrietestpilot]

thank you mod roy for the compliment. most people aren't aware of what happenes to the body after an injury,especially involving shock.the owners of the animal patients i treat almost never know what is happening to their pet.most peoples preceptions of trauma are VERY wrong. it's not that their stupid though.most people don't know that seems o.k. on the outside,doesn't mean o.k. on the inside.it's a tough job,but if your good,it's very rewarding.

Edited January 18, 2004 by valkyrietestpilot

[KingNor]

something jsut doesn't seem right to me, internal bleeding(with no external bleeding) isnt usually caused by stuff being blasted through the skin, its more of a bludgneing type thing.

someone hits you with a bat, internal bleeding

someone shoots you, blood everywhere, usually anyway.

oh well, personally i think they left too much out. good opinions guys

[Keith]

something jsut doesn't seem right to me, internal bleeding(with no external bleeding) isnt usually caused by stuff being blasted through the skin, its more of a bludgneing type thing.

someone hits you with a bat, internal bleeding

someone shoots you, blood everywhere, usually anyway.

oh well, personally i think they left too much out. good opinions guys

I'd wager that Quadran Rau rounds, even after piercing through the Valkyrie's hull, would still come in hot enough to cotterize an entry wound.

[ewilen]

Usually I worry about details like that but whenever I see the scene, I get all ferklempt.

Edit: Discuss amongst yourselves: DYRL was intended from the start to be movie within the Macross universe.

Edited January 18, 2004 by ewilen

[EXO]

They tried to achieve the dramatic shot of Roy dying over Claudia's pineapple salad. They had to get him from point A to point B. Hell yeah they left out a lot. Roy changed from his flight suit to his officer's uniform. There's no explanation for missing the three big holes on your back when you take off your suit and it's full of blood. I don't care how drunk you are. They abandoned common sense for the dramatic effect. The more people try to make sense of it the more they'll question it.

[lebhead]

They tried to achieve the dramatic shot of Roy dying over Claudia's pineapple salad. They had to get him from point A to point B. Hell yeah they left out a lot. Roy changed from his flight suit to his officer's uniform. There's no explanation for missing the three big holes on your back when you take off your suit and it's full of blood. I don't care how drunk you are. They abandoned common sense for the dramatic effect. The more people try to make sense of it the more they'll question it.

i'm sure Roy knew that he was shot. he just chose to spend his last minutes with the woman he loved. plus, he promised her he'd be there for Pinapple Salad - and there's one thing Roy isn't, and that's a liar.

[Opus]

something jsut doesn't seem right to me, internal bleeding(with no external bleeding) isnt usually caused by stuff being blasted through the skin, its more of a bludgneing type thing.

someone hits you with a bat, internal bleeding

someone shoots you, blood everywhere, usually anyway.

oh well, personally i think they left too much out. good opinions guys

Most of the time its not the bullet itself that kills you rather the shock from the impact busting up your guts. One of the first things they taught us in the Army was that if you get hit to lay down where you are and chill. Even though you feel OK and want to keep going you could bleed to death before you even start to feel any pain.

[EXO]

They tried to achieve the dramatic shot of Roy dying over Claudia's pineapple salad.  They had to get him from point A to point B.  Hell yeah they left out a lot.  Roy changed from his flight suit to his officer's uniform.  There's no explanation for missing the three big holes on your back when you take off your suit and it's full of blood. I don't care how drunk you are.  They abandoned common sense for the dramatic effect.  The more people try to make sense of it the more they'll question it.

i'm sure Roy knew that he was shot. he just chose to spend his last minutes with the woman he loved. plus, he promised her he'd be there for Pinapple Salad - and there's one thing Roy isn't, and that's a liar.

I'm sure all of that holds true (as true as fiction could be), but I believe the story tellers chose to hold your the audience's suspension of disbelief to a point where the question will always come up. The answer is pretty obvious. Roy knew he was going to die and wanted to be with Claudia. I bet if he was bleeding internally instead of externally he would have chose diddling her instead of the guitar.

Edited January 18, 2004 by >EXO<

[KingNor]

They tried to achieve the dramatic shot of Roy dying over Claudia's pineapple salad.  They had to get him from point A to point B.  Hell yeah they left out a lot.  Roy changed from his flight suit to his officer's uniform.  There's no explanation for missing the three big holes on your back when you take off your suit and it's full of blood. I don't care how drunk you are.  They abandoned common sense for the dramatic effect.  The more people try to make sense of it the more they'll question it.

i'm sure Roy knew that he was shot. he just chose to spend his last minutes with the woman he loved. plus, he promised her he'd be there for Pinapple Salad - and there's one thing Roy isn't, and that's a liar.

I'm sure all of that holds true (as true as fiction could be), but I believe the story tellers chose to hold your the audience's suspension of disbelief to a point where the question will always come up. The answer is pretty obvious. Roy knew he was going to die and wanted to be with Claudia. I bet if he was bleeding internally instead of externally he would have chose diddling her instead of the guitar.

in my opinion, roy acted as if he had no idea he was hurt.

and its not like he just died on the couch, he like all of a sudden was convulsing and then fell forward, i take that as he wasn't feeling any pain, then it hit him and he fell forward?

for all the explinations given for how this scene played out, i'm still not impressed by how it went down. neither story wise (i'm imideately left thinking "what the hell just happend? he's dead? huh?")

the first couple times i watched it i didn't even put it togeather that he'd been wounded in his plane.

its one thing to instill the pointlessness and tradgic loss brought by war, another to confuse the audience with an unplausable and confuseing death scene

[UN Spacy]

Sorry to go kinda off topic. But has anyone ever tried a Pineapple Salad? Sounds kind of yummy to me...................

[EXO]

I think it's just fruit slad inside a halved pineapple.

[lebhead]

oh, I'm sure Roy felt pain. of course, he could have always taken painkillers (which to Roy is about 2 bottles of Absolut ). basically what happened between when he was shot and when he showed up wasn't important. we were shown enough to know that after Roy got out of the plane something was seriously wrong with him. so when we saw him at Claudia's, it was easy to expect not all was right, which it wasn't.

i think Roy's death was one of the most powerful sequences in the series. but, that's just my 2.

[Roy Focker]

With the amount he drinks he could be walking around all day not wearing any pants and he wouldn't know it.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Roy's death in the show is UN Spacy propaganda...

He really died in the saddle (if you know what I mean) and Claudia dragged him out of bed, put some clothes on him, posed him on the floor with his guitar and ran to get the MP's...

All to protect the man's reputation.

[EXO]

With the amount he drinks he could be walking around all day not wearing any pants and he wouldn't know it.

That happened to him too???

[Lightning]

Roy's death in the show is UN Spacy propaganda...

He really died in the saddle (if you know what I mean) and Claudia dragged him out of bed, put some clothes on him, posed him on the floor with his guitar and ran to get the MP's...

All to protect the man's reputation.

I wholeheartedly agree with this theory. it's the best one around here in my opinion.

[Ghadrack]

One other point, who is to say what type of wounds he actually sustained? Maybe I haven't seen it in a while, but from recollection they show the damage to the valkyrie, they show something in the seat which we later come to realize is supposed to be blood, but there is no telling if he just got some shrapnel blown through the cockpit. After having to penetrate not only the armor of the valkyrie, but the interior cockpit wall, then the reinforced ejector seat I think it is more likely that he just got shrapnel wounds in the back.

Given his stubborn nature I didn't have any problem suspending any disbelief to think that he could have toughed it out long enough to make it back to see Claudia one last time. I am an old sap, but I thought it was a pretty emotional sequence and it served to show the audience the kind of affection that those two characters shared "behind the scenes" so to speak.

[KingNor]

i dont believe for a minute they intended roy to have "toughed it out" to make it home "one last time"

if ANYTHING it seems to me roy was actin like he had no idea he was hurt. if he was trying desperately to see her again, why did he spend his time hardly looking at her or anything, he was just sittin on the couch.

i agree that roy dieing was a very important part of the serise, i just dont' think they went about it very well. in my opinion the way they did it actually DETRACTS from the importance of the event in the story because its so bewilderingly strange.. its hard to look back on it and be sad when its just so freakin bizzar

[JMBNaples]

did I read somewhere the Macross version showed blood when he was laying on the floor where the Robotech version did not?

something like the american adience got a cut version?

[Aegis!]

did I read somewhere the Macross version showed blood when he was laying on the floor where the Robotech version did not?

something like the american adience got a cut version?

hehehehe

INDEED , the american audience got a REALLY edited version...and it wasn´t just the blood mind you.

[mbs357]

What else was cut out?

As alas, I have yet to see original Macross.

It's also been a while since I've seen Robotech.

[JMBNaples]

same here,

please fill in the ignorant

[KingNor]

same here,

please fill in the ignorant

mostly stuff like roy getting drunk and minmays butt.

its not THAT edited, but there are a few diffrences. i think the newbie forum has all the diffrences. (its not the topic of my thread)

[SuperOstrich]

its one thing to instill the pointlessness and tradgic loss brought by war, another to confuse the audience with an unplausable and confuseing death scene

Funny. Even as a kid back in 85, it didn't confuse me one bit. I don't think many people are confused by this scene. Even your description of the scene leads me to believe that you aren't confused by it either. You just didn't like it.

[Agent ONE]

something jsut doesn't seem right to me, internal bleeding(with no external bleeding) isnt usually caused by stuff being blasted through the skin, its more of a bludgneing type thing.

someone hits you with a bat, internal bleeding

someone shoots you, blood everywhere, usually anyway.

oh well, personally i think they left too much out.  good opinions guys

I'd wager that Quadran Rau rounds, even after piercing through the Valkyrie's hull, would still come in hot enough to cotterize an entry wound.

Does anyone know how big those Q-Rau rounds are? I think the rounds would be hot enough, I have a feeling the rounds are as long as a baseball bat and as fat as a coffee can, heat would not be an issue, Roy would have been ripped in half.

[ewilen]

Yup, I'm sure they're at least 20 mm, probably at least 55 mm (the caliber of the GU-11). In real life, Roy would probably have been hit by shrapnel when the shell fragmented or "spall" from the cockpit being shredded. I don't know how hot that stuff would be or what it would be likely to do to the human body. Nothing nice, I'm sure.

[KingNor]

its one thing to instill the pointlessness and tradgic loss brought by war, another to confuse the audience with an unplausable  and confuseing death scene

Funny. Even as a kid back in 85, it didn't confuse me one bit. I don't think many people are confused by this scene. Even your description of the scene leads me to believe that you aren't confused by it either. You just didn't like it.

i distinctly remember when i first watched it i had no idea why he suddenly dropped dead.

later in the episode they basicly spell it out for you.

you do understand the diffrence between seeing it for the first time, and looking back on it years later in hindsight, right?