Villeneuve's Dune

[Dynaman]

4 hours ago, azrael said:

🤦‍♂️ Really, which theater marketing staff member came up with that popcorn bucket lid?

And how many executives failed to say "Heck NO!" to it?

[Raikkonen]

I'm surprised it hasn't been recalled after the viral lashing over the last couple of weeks...

Unless if this was the plan, which is quite genius then as the film is getting quite a lot of extra free publicity... 

I guess the next Batman film will feature a cave bucket, and the next fast and the furious an exhaust bucket... 😆

Next star wars, a lightsaber hilt on the bucket 🤣

Edited February 5 by Raikkonen

[jenius]

Oh I think the marketing people are over the moon with the response. 

[sh9000]

Extended sneak preview.

[Big s]

On 2/5/2024 at 11:15 AM, jenius said:

Oh I think the marketing people are over the moon with the response. 

It’s the most popular popcorn bucket ever

[sh9000]

In Conversation with Nolan and Villeneuve.

[TangledThorns]

My biggest takeaway was Nolan admitting that Her Majesty's Secret Service is his favorite James Bond film 🤯

[sh9000]

How Dune Should Have Started.

[sh9000]

Previously on Dune.

[mikeszekely]

One of my tabletop group hasn't confirmed he's available for Sunday yet. If he's not, me and the rest of the group might go see Dune instead.

[jenius]

I'm going to see dune in IMAX in Sunday.

[Roy Focker]

Anyone else besides me find Dune (in general) to be a bit overrated? All nicely made films, but I'm not impressed by it as most people are.

[Scyla]

3 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Anyone else besides me find Dune (in general) to be a bit overrated? All nicely made films, but I'm not impressed by it as most people are.

I think this is a broadly cast question. Do you mean the Dennis Villeneuve movies, the David Lynch one or the whole franchise.

Not being able to see Part 2 I think the fans where anxious that it would be another creative disaster like the David Lynch one. It was a solid movie so fans were relieved and thus it generated hype. 

However, without a second part (that wasn’t green lit after the release of the first one) the movie wasn’t a full story so lacking in that regard. 

I think it is similar to the Lord of the Rings movies. Like LotR, Dune was considered to difficult to put in a movie. And to back that up it had already produced a failure. But because it was a well execute movie.

To answer the question if the source material is worth the hype is a different question.

[Duke Togo]

7 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Anyone else besides me find Dune (in general) to be a bit overrated?

Nope 😜

[TangledThorns]

9 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Anyone else besides me find Dune (in general) to be a bit overrated? All nicely made films, but I'm not impressed by it as most people are.

I can understand that. DUNE 1984 was supposed to be the next STAR WARS but didn't pan out however I think it was a well made film. Same goes for the new DUNE films.

That being said I hadn't read the books but I think it should have been made into a streaming series instead as there seems to be a lot of material to do so. I know they are making a DUNE prequel series so lets see how that goes too.

[mikeszekely]

10 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Anyone else besides me find Dune (in general) to be a bit overrated? All nicely made films, but I'm not impressed by it as most people are.

All I can tell you is that, as someone unfamiliar with the books or the '84 movie, I spent a good portion of part 1 confused and overwhelmed. I don't think a lot actually happened, but there was a ton of world-building going on. When the movie ended, though, and I'd had more time to digest it, I really wanted to know what happened next. So, sure, part 1 isn't one of my top 10 movies or anything, and I'm definitely not as hyped as some people are for part 2. But I definitely liked the first one enough to go see part 2.

[TangledThorns]

15 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

All I can tell you is that, as someone unfamiliar with the books or the '84 movie, I spent a good portion of part 1 confused and overwhelmed. I don't think a lot actually happened, but there was a ton of world-building going on. When the movie ended, though, and I'd had more time to digest it, I really wanted to know what happened next. So, sure, part 1 isn't one of my top 10 movies or anything, and I'm definitely not as hyped as some people are for part 2. But I definitely liked the first one enough to go see part 2.

 

DUNE 1984 does a better job of world building TBH. That is also why I think a streaming series would have been a better idea. Plus it would have give MAX much needed non-DC sci-fi content.

[sh9000]

My wife is more of a fan of new Dune so she'll be watching it first.  I'll be watching Deadpool & Wolverine first.

[MKT]

I watched it today, and against better judgement went in without rewatching Part 1 hoping to recall enough details of it lol. Immediately realized it was a mistake, and it took quite a bit to try to remember everything that happened previously as stuff unfolded in this new movie. I remember thinking P1 was occasionally a bit of a drag then, but I knew it was mostly world building stuff & backstories that needed time & space to be established. 

All in, the pacing was generally faster this time around, if a bit uneven, and from 2nd half onwards things do move at much faster pace with important expositions being dropped in a few very quick scenes. The action sequences were done well, I would have preferred if they had dragged them out a bit longer to compensate for all the slower scenes.

My main peeve, and this is a personal preference, is the color palette. Most of everything takes place in the deserts, and coupled with the desaturated hues, everything starts to look too monochromatic. The scenes outside of Arrakis, although similarly drained of colours, were a welcome change to the eyes. Perhaps a different approach to colors would have worked better, but if there is a Part 3, I won't expect this aspect to change since the whole look is already firmly established.

Edited March 2 by MKT

[Big s]

16 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Anyone else besides me find Dune (in general) to be a bit overrated? All nicely made films, but I'm not impressed by it as most people are.

Definitely overrated, but I still want to see the new one.

[tekering]

17 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

DUNE 1984 does a better job of world building TBH.

It's much less accurate to the novel, overall, but does work better as a film.  As much as I prefer Dune 2021, Lynch's opening scene between the emperor and the third-stage navigator is more memorable and effective than any single scene of Villeneuve's, and puts the story into a much clearer context.

16 hours ago, MKT said:

it took quite a bit to try to remember everything that happened previously

Lynch's film is the more memorable, but that's not necessarily a compliment. 😅

16 hours ago, MKT said:

from 2nd half onwards things do move at much faster pace with important expositions being dropped in a few very quick scenes

That's how the novel is structured, so every film (and TV) version follows the same pacing, using a lot of montage in the third act to indicate the passage of time.

[CoryHolmes]

Just came back from watching Part Two.

 

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to taste in media, but this was a terrible movie.  All my worst fears were confirmed, they cut out so much plot from the novel that it jumped from topic to topic, barely pausing to let things sink in before info-dumping into the next scene.  Even the individual moments weren't that good, imho.  I felt it lacked a sense of... epicness, for lack of a better term.  Paul riding the sandworm had little build up and thus it became a little thing  (I also subtract a million points for the lack of epic Stilgar air guitar 😤).

 

I found the Baron to continue being underwhelming as a villain.  Miniseries Baron is the Best Baron, and I'll fight anyone who claims otherwise!  Same with Fayed, just suffered from a lack of air time to flesh out his character.  Miniseries Fayed had the grace to be a smarmy, epic douchebag of a villain.  I did enjoy this Gurney and Stilgar, though.  Both had wonderful lines and enjoyable characterization.

 

And the epic duel at the end?  Not so epic.  The Emperor had almost no impact or presence, miniseries Irulian is the superior Irulian, and everyone here just seemed to be going through the motions.  The big battle, the culmination of Paul's revenge against those who murdered his House?  Done in a blink of an eye and then he's walking in on everyone and doing his thing.  Was I expecting another Battle of Helm's Deep?  Naw, but of the three versions of this battle put to screen thus far, this is the weakest.

 

Edited March 3 by CoryHolmes

[azrael]

Haven't seen it but reading around...

Spoiler

So they didn't do a time jump, eh? No child Alia? No baby Leto II? (The latter isn't needed, but there's a satisfaction to Alia, the creepy little girl, killing the Baron).

[renegadeleader1]

2 minutes ago, azrael said:

Haven't seen it but reading around...

  Reveal hidden contents

So they didn't do a time jump, eh? No child Alia? No baby Leto II? (The latter isn't needed, but there's a satisfaction to Alia, the creepy little girl, killing the Baron).

You are correct sir.

[mikeszekely]

Well, I'm back from seeing it.  Remember, I'm someone who is totally unfamiliar with the source or any other versions, but my impression of it was largely the same as the first.  That is, it was visually interesting, well-acted, and there's obviously a ton of lore and worldbuilding that went into the story, but I was kind of confused about what the different factions' motivations were.  Then the movie comes to an end, and I'm again left asking, "but then what happens?"  I guess the difference is that what happens is another book, and I'm starting to get the impression that I might not care for the story's actual conclusion.  Like, yeah, I get that Dune is a very influential bit of sci-fi, but I also think that maybe the best parts have been lifted and done better while the rest is sort of a product of the time it was written.  All-in-all, though, I thought this particular movie was solid, and that if you liked the first one you'll probably like the second one.

[jenius]

I saw it today too. I agree that if you liked the first one, you'll probably like this one. I'm not a huge Dune fan but my wife and her entire family LOVE it. I read the first three books and then I had to give up. Dune for me is "miserable people behaving miserably." I don't need happy books, I loved Consider Phlebas, but Dune crushes itself under its own mass. So getting back to this movie:

Spoiler

I don't think the removal of Paul's son and his death hurt the story at all. He has plenty of motivation. The lack of his sister is only a bummer in that I thought she was a super interesting character but that gets developed and destroyed by later books. Chani is a little tweaked from the book with her ending. Clearly they want to give her more agency but there's not a lot of room for that in the rest of her story. 

One thing I really hate is the depiction of the Harkonnens. They are cartoon bad guys, so over-the-top they are unbelievable. Then they're rendered in black&white to try to invoke WW2 nazi propaghanda. Houses at war with each other can consider each other evil and treacherous, and the actions of the Harkonnens largely do that, so why do we need all the ultimately silly ultra evil moments? 

I'd say it's a decent 7/10. Visually splending, paced decently, and I don't know how you make a better Dune movie than these two stitched together. That said, any 'movie' that takes nearly 6 hours to tell shouldn't be a movie in this day and age, it should be a mini series on a streaming network. I haven't seen the original Dune mini series but I've heard great things and would think that's the way to go again. 

[renegadeleader1]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Then the movie comes to an end, and I'm again left asking, "but then what happens?"  I guess the difference is that what happens is another book, and I'm starting to get the impression that I might not care for the story's actual conclusion.

I wish I could explain what comes next, but the director who also co-wrote this, utterly botched the ending by forgetting the one simple tenet that is the cause of and end to why anything happens on Arrakis matters to anything.

 

The. Spice. Must. Flow.

 

Spoiler

The entire reason Paul is even able to seize power and become Emperor in the books is due to his control of the spice fields with the Fremen and the threat to destroy the pre-spice masses by introducing water to them and making the worms that create spice go extinct. Not nuking them.

 

Without the worms there is no spice. Without the spice the spacing guild navigators can't plot courses. Without navigators there is no interstellar travel. Without interstellar travel entire planets and systems collapse due to lack of resources and trade.

 

The spacing guild understands this and as such would never let the other great houses of the Lansraad openly rebel against Paul  and transport them to Arrakis lest he destroy the spice.

 

Due to this inability to overtly strike back at Paul the next two novels Dune: Messiah and Children of Dune revolve around covert plots to assassinate Paul and his family by various factions, while Paul tightens his grip on the galaxy, consolidates power by starving out enemies, and debates the righteousness of "the golden path" that his presience gives him glimpses of and wether his conscience can allow him to take that path given the bloodshed and death it entails, meanwhile the Fremen are systematically hoping from planet to planet going full on SS concentration camp ethnic cleansing on anyone that does not accept that Paul is god. It's not so much a holy war but mass executions on a galactic scale.

 

The movie on the other hand has Paul threaten the great houses by nuking the spice fields unless they accept him as Emperor, they refuse, and he gives the order to attack the other great houses warships likely armed with their houses nukes already in orbit with the Fremen boarding troop ships with the spacing guild and the leverage they bring non-existent.

 

[Bolt]

2 minutes ago, renegadeleader1 said:

I wish I could explain what comes next, but the director who also co-wrote this, utterly botched the ending by forgetting the one simple tenet that is the cause of and end to why anything happens on Arrakis matters to anything.

 

The. Spice. Must. Flow.

 

  Hide contents

The entire reason Paul is even able to seize power and become Emperor in the books is due to his control of the spice fields with the Fremen and the threat to destroy the pre-spice masses by introducing water to them and making the worms that create spice go extinct. Not nuking them.

 

Without the worms there is no spice. Without the spice the spacing guild navigators can't plot courses. Without navigators there is no interstellar travel. Without interstellar travel entire planets and systems collapse due to lack of resources and trade.

 

The spacing guild understands this and as such would never let the other great houses of the Lansraad openly rebel against Paul  and transport them to Arrakis lest he destroy the spice.

 

Due to this inability to overtly strike back at Paul the next two novels Dune: Messiah and Children of Dune revolve around covert plots to assassinate Paul and his family by various factions, while Paul tightens his grip on the galaxy, consolidates power by starving out enemies, and debates the righteousness of "the golden path" that his presience gives him glimpses of and wether his conscience can allow him to take that path given the bloodshed and death it entails, meanwhile the Fremen are systematically hoping from planet to planet going full on SS concentration camp ethnic cleansing on anyone that does not accept that Paul is god. It's not so much a holy war but mass executions on a galactic scale.

 

The movie on the other hand has Paul threaten the great houses by nuking the spice fields unless they accept him as Emperor, they refuse, and he gives the order to attack the other great houses warships likely armed with their houses nukes already in orbit with the Fremen boarding troop ships with the spacing guild and the leverage they bring non-existent.

 

I haven't seen it yet. But , being familiar with and loving the books, I agree with your statement. This reminds me, there were some things The David Lynch version botched. But there were some things, he did well. IMO. I'm sure i will enjoy Villeneuve's second installment, visually. But , likely there will be some nit picks as well.  

[CoryHolmes]

22 minutes ago, renegadeleader1 said:

I wish I could explain what comes next, but the director who also co-wrote this, utterly botched the ending by forgetting the one simple tenet that is the cause of and end to why anything happens on Arrakis matters to anything.

 

The. Spice. Must. Flow.

 

  Hide contents

The entire reason Paul is even able to seize power and become Emperor in the books is due to his control of the spice fields with the Fremen and the threat to destroy the pre-spice masses by introducing water to them and making the worms that create spice go extinct. Not nuking them.

 

Without the worms there is no spice. Without the spice the spacing guild navigators can't plot courses. Without navigators there is no interstellar travel. Without interstellar travel entire planets and systems collapse due to lack of resources and trade.

 

The spacing guild understands this and as such would never let the other great houses of the Lansraad openly rebel against Paul  and transport them to Arrakis lest he destroy the spice.

 

Due to this inability to overtly strike back at Paul the next two novels Dune: Messiah and Children of Dune revolve around covert plots to assassinate Paul and his family by various factions, while Paul tightens his grip on the galaxy, consolidates power by starving out enemies, and debates the righteousness of "the golden path" that his presience gives him glimpses of and wether his conscience can allow him to take that path given the bloodshed and death it entails, meanwhile the Fremen are systematically hoping from planet to planet going full on SS concentration camp ethnic cleansing on anyone that does not accept that Paul is god. It's not so much a holy war but mass executions on a galactic scale.

 

The movie on the other hand has Paul threaten the great houses by nuking the spice fields unless they accept him as Emperor, they refuse, and he gives the order to attack the other great houses warships likely armed with their houses nukes already in orbit with the Fremen boarding troop ships with the spacing guild and the leverage they bring non-existent.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the greatest line in any of the adaptions comes from the Miniseries.

"Without the Spice the Navigators will become blind, the Bene Gesserit will lose all powers, and all commerce between the Great Houses will cease!  Civilization will end!  If I am not obeyed?  Then the Spice... will not flow."

Paul has them all by the short'n'curlies and nobody is willing to test his willingness to do it.  The Guild always chooses the safest paths, and the Bene Gesserit prefer to work from the shadows.  As an aside, I really like Irulian's walk across the palace floor in the Miniseries.  She's smart enough to see the way out of the mess and is willing to do it; in the movie she needed the Reverend Mother to explain what needed to be done.

[azrael]

3 hours ago, jenius said:

I haven't seen the original Dune mini series but I've heard great things and would think that's the way to go again. 

Don't watch the 2000-miniseries for the visuals. Nor the costumes. Same with Children of Dune (2003). It got slightly better with Children of Dune. But the story-element for both miniseries was on point.

3 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

I wish I could explain what comes next, but the director who also co-wrote this, utterly botched the ending by forgetting the one simple tenet that is the cause of and end to why anything happens on Arrakis matters to anything.

I got that feeling from Part 1. I didn't get the same impact from watching Part 1 about Spice from Villeneuve's version that I got from Lynch's version nor the miniseries (maybe less so Lynch's version, but it still felt important). Just from watching Part 1, I felt Villeneuve didn't explain the shear importance of Spice in Dune.

3 hours ago, CoryHolmes said:

Paul has them all by the short'n'curlies and nobody is willing to test his willingness to do it. 

I believe you meant to say, Paul has the galaxy by the cahones by controlling Spice production.

Regarding the ending...

Spoiler

Chani heading back into the desert. Guess I have to watch it to see the reasoning. Cuz in the book, Paul makes it clear Chani is his wife. Irulan is just a political convenience. Jessica even has the last line in the book pointing out her and Chani's role and their importance. But like I said, I guess I have to watch it to understand the reasoning behind that change.

 

[Raikkonen]

It was ok. Nothing memorable. But, I'm also not a fan of how Villeneuve tells a story. 

Spoiler

Left empty by the lack of gripping tension leading up to the even duller demise of all the main bad guys. 

Maybe the films could have been more engrossing if they were R-rated?

Edited March 4 by Raikkonen

[TangledThorns]

4 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

It was ok. Nothing memorable. But, I'm also not a fan of how Villeneuve tells a story. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Left empty by the lack of gripping tension build up leading up to the even duller demise of all the main bad guys. 

Maybe the films could have been more engrossing if they were R-rated?

Bingo! Another reason why I recommended DUNE should have been a streaming series it wouldn't be tied down by MPAA ratings.

[MKT]

I knew nothing about Dune before both parts of Villenueve's versions, except knowing that the old PC game was very successful & very highly regarded.

Just for kicks, I watched the David Lynch 1984, Spicediver Edit version today. I now get why it was so much maligned when it came out, it's pretty much incoherent by itself and if not having watched Villenueve's, I would have been totally lost.

More than that though, I'm pretty shocked by how B-grade the visuals appear to be... Yeah in the 80's there are worst looking productions out there, and perhaps I'm unfairly comparing with the most memorable productions of its era like SW, Indiana Jones, Blade Runner, Aliens etc. But it struck me how much of a gulf in the looks department between 2024 Dune and 1984 Dune, when Blade Runner 2049 does not necessarily look much better than Blade Runner 1982.

Whatever my complains on the visuals of Villenueve's Dune, I take it back now lol. 

[renegadeleader1]

6 hours ago, MKT said:

More than that though, I'm pretty shocked by how B-grade the visuals appear to be... Yeah in the 80's there are worst looking productions out there, and perhaps I'm unfairly comparing with the most memorable productions of its era like SW, Indiana Jones, Blade Runner, Aliens etc. But it struck me how much of a gulf in the looks department between 2024 Dune and 1984 Dune, when Blade Runner 2049 does not necessarily look much better than Blade Runner 1982.

The 1984 Dune movie deserves to be crapped on for it's effects when you take into account it cost $42 million to make while Empire Strikes Back cost $30 million, Blade Runner $28 million, Raiders of the Lost Ark $20 million, and Aliens only $18 million.

 

David Lynch's Dune is an ugly incoherent mess made by someone that didn't understand the source material that was in way over his head who never should have been given the job in the first place.

[Raikkonen]

On 3/4/2024 at 2:49 PM, MKT said:

More than that though, I'm pretty shocked by how B-grade the visuals appear to be... Yeah in the 80's there are worst looking productions out there, and perhaps I'm unfairly comparing with the most memorable productions of its era like SW, Indiana Jones, Blade Runner, Aliens etc. But it struck me how much of a gulf in the looks department between 2024 Dune and 1984 Dune, when Blade Runner 2049 does not necessarily look much better than Blade Runner 1982.

 

On 3/4/2024 at 9:03 PM, renegadeleader1 said:

The 1984 Dune movie deserves to be crapped on for it's effects when you take into account it cost $42 million to make while Empire Strikes Back cost $30 million, Blade Runner $28 million, Raiders of the Lost Ark $20 million, and Aliens only $18 million.

David Lynch's Dune is an ugly incoherent mess made by someone that didn't understand the source material that was in way over his head who never should have been given the job in the first place.

Lynch chose to do it as if it was on a stage with very old school techniques. Then with the deadlines never met and a constant change in direction along with a demanding producer, the costs shot up and the delays caused a desperate dash to cut the losses by releasing whatever they had. 

Classic case of a high budget film meltdown.