Ghost in the Shell SAC_2045

[Graham]

I'm really enjoying it. Loved the fight scene against Patrick Huge.

[Petrov27]

Watched through the first half - despite initially being really put off by the CGI I got used to it fairly quick. It does have this weird almost "Toy Story" animation feel at times.

Eps 5 and 6 were pretty cool - yeah naked guy backflips (Patrick Huge - I think that is my new porn star name) out of context is hilarious, but in that scene I found him extremely unnerving. Also after being strangely bloodless through the first four eps it flipped the table and went the other way. Again another oddity but not a show stopper.

[Keith]

2 hours ago, Petrov27 said:

Watched through the first half - despite initially being really put off by the CGI I got used to it fairly quick. It does have this weird almost "Toy Story" animation feel at times.

Eps 5 and 6 were pretty cool - yeah naked guy backflips (Patrick Huge - I think that is my new porn star name) out of context is hilarious, but in that scene I found him extremely unnerving. Also after being strangely bloodless through the first four eps it flipped the table and went the other way. Again another oddity but not a show stopper.

After "Pussy The Hand" in Mardock Scramble, no mame surprises me.

[Dynaman]

Pussy Galore - getting away with that in the sixties means anything goes.

[technoblue]

Gotta love cheeky character names.

I finished watching episodes 11 and 12 last night. Man, there were parts of the final act this season which reminded me of the Laughing Man arc. The ending had me half yelling, half laughing at the screen. It was an incredible ride and now I feel compelled to revisit the older series and OVAs. I love it when a series pulls me back into its lore.

[Dynaman]

Two episodes in and I really like it.  Animation is fluid and just detailed enough. Voices are all good so far.

[Petrov27]

I finished it and overall liked it. Thoughts:

• 2d half (after defeating Patrick Huge) had better story and felt more like the older series
• the new characters were a total waste IMHO not sure why they bothered
• on that note the new female character in the 2nd half was extremely irritating. They can totally lose her if they continue this.
• animation still somewhat bothered me - the faces mostly I think. I fear most of the CGI budget was spent designing the major's rear end and walking away from the camera animation

 

[Sanity is Optional]

My friend's take (which I can't ignore now) is that it looks like a CG cutscene from an older videogame.

I think it's due to the camera being commonly stationary.

As far as the plot goes, yeah definitely got vibes of the older series in the second half. Though the whole "sustainable war" thing is still incredibly dumb.

[chyll2]

My experience is pretty much the same. I was put off by the CGI and you need to invest to finish the first half to really like it (only to end on cliffhanger lol)

[Atheonyirh]

The english dub is up for it now, for anyone that was waiting until then to watch it.

[M'Kyuun]

I watched the first three eps, and the writing and tone, with exception of the new guy, Standard, feels pretty close to SAC. It helps that the original English cast are reprising their roles. Standard is written as a cocky dumbass, and just doesn't seem a logical choice against the skillset and intelligence of the rest of the team. The background and vehicle graphics look alright to me, but I'm not too crazy about the character animations, especially the mouth movements, which look terrible. And as someone else mentioned, Aramaki's hair looks like it's a piece of molded plastic attached to his head; a little bit of texturing would have gone a long way. The new Tachikomas are ok, and while the retractable wheel under the abdomen is a neat feature, it just makes it look odd in profile. I prefer the original design. I keep wondering about the odd external armature that seems to adorn the tires of nearly every wheeled vehicle in the show- it makes a sort of sense on the military vehicles, but it's even on Togusa's little car in Japan. Sensor for autopilot? it would explain why the Mustang doesn't have it.

Anyway, mouth/character animations and Standard aside, I'm enjoying it so far. The first ep, though, stretched belief well beyond its tensile capacity, what with so many people firing weapons and no one getting hit. Moreover, it appears that every vehicle in that scene is armored and has bulletproof glass, b/c direct hits shown don't seem to make  much of an impact, let alone penetrating, even from high powered weapons. Batou is completely exposed in the Major's jeep, taking a lot of incoming fire, and is never even grazed. It was all very A-Team-ish, with lots of lead flying and no blood to be seen. Quite odd for a mature anime known for blood and gore. 

[vladykins]

Agreed- about theee episodes in and Standard is a big WTF compared to the rest of the characters- I'm just waiting for him to be a red shirt.

[Dynaman]

Anyone know when the season will finish up?

[Rock]

SEASON 2 
MAY 2022 Globally!

 

[Sanity is Optional]

Finally, took them long enough after that cliffhanger!

[M'Kyuun]

Just finished second season, and I'm still wondering what the heck just happened? Maybe I'm becoming dull in my old age, as it left me a little confused as to what exactly was going on. 

Spoiler

Def got a Matrix-y sense that everything towards the end, where the nukes went off, w/ the whole "N" thing, everybody was being absorbed into a huge virtual construct. Bit confusing how it was all presented though.

Funny how they love to portray the 'American Empire' as the inept and evil bad guys when we're their biggest ally in the real world.

Nice throwback to original film at the end.

Edited May 28, 2022 by M'Kyuun

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

Just finished second season, and I'm still wondering what the heck just happened? Maybe I'm becoming dull in my old age, as it left me a little confused as to what exactly was going on. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Def got a Matrix-y sense that everything towards the end, where the nukes went off, w/ the whole "N" thing, everybody was being absorbed into a huge virtual construct. Bit confusing how it was all presented though.

Funny how they love to portray the 'American Empire' as the inept and evil bad guys when we're they're biggest ally in the real world.

Nice throwback to original film at the end.

I finished the second season too. On the whole, I think it worked better than the first season but I agree that the entire show fell short of previous GitS anime by not fleshing out enough details. It ends up a flashy albeit watered-down version of Stand Alone Complex and doesn't feel like a true sequel---at least, not to me.

Spoiler

 One of my biggest beefs is with Esaki. Her character is erratic and inconsistent throughout, but especially in the second part where we learn about her link to Batou. But instead of making her death and subsequent sudden resurrection poignant to the plot, she gets her new full prosthetic body for...no reason? I mean, she went from suspected protohuman spy and mistaken assassin to full on turncoat who betrays Batou? Wasn't he like a surrogate father figure? Are we to believe that everyone was already locked in their "N" sleep chambers at that point? There seems to be no explanation, apart from a few throw-away lines from Esaki and then that very short run of dialogue Shimamura is finally allowed to have at the end.

I keep thinking about how other GitS anime, like the Oshii movies, the first SAC series, and even Arise are dialogue heavy. It's not always ideal to tell a story that way, but I find it works really well for GitS. With heavy dialogue, I get to peer into the thought processes of Kusanagi and other key Section 9 team members. Unless I missed something, the character motivations are not as clear in SAC 2045 and after my first viewing I'm not sure what to think of it.

For now, I guess I'll say it seems off. 

The idea that Kusanagi would be okay forcing memories onto others using a cyberbrain virus seems out of character for her too. That isn't to say that she refuses making her own bold moves but usually the audience is allowed some insight. This time we don't get it. A lot is open ended.  

    

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

I finished the second season too. On the whole, I think it worked better than the first season but I agree that the entire show fell short of previous GitS anime by not fleshing out enough details. It ends up a flashy albeit watered-down version of Stand Alone Complex and doesn't feel like a true sequel---at least, not to me.

  Hide contents

 One of my biggest beefs is with Esaki. Her character is erratic and inconsistent throughout, but especially in the second part where we learn about her link to Batou. But instead of making her death and subsequent sudden resurrection poignant to the plot, she gets her new full prosthetic body for...no reason? I mean, she went from suspected protohuman spy and mistaken assassin to full on turncoat who betrays Batou? Wasn't he like a surrogate father figure? Are we to believe that everyone was already locked in their "N" sleep chambers at that point? There seems to be no explanation, apart from a few throw-away lines from Esaki and then that very short run of dialogue Shimamura is finally allowed to have at the end.

I keep thinking about how other GitS anime, like the Oshii movies, the first SAC series, and even Arise are dialogue heavy. It's not always ideal to tell a story that way, but I find it works really well for GitS. With heavy dialogue, I get to peer into the thought processes of Kusanagi and other key Section 9 team members. Unless I missed something, the character motivations are not as clear in SAC 2045 and after my first viewing I'm not sure what to think of it.

For now, I guess I'll say it seems off. 

The idea that Kusanagi would be okay forcing memories onto others using a cyberbrain virus seems out of character for her too. That isn't to say that she refuses making her own bold moves but usually the audience is allowed some insight. This time we don't get it. A lot is open ended.  

    

I liked it better than first season, too.  Agree, too, that the original GitS film and SAC were dialog heavy, sometimes too much so for my taste. 

Spoiler

Esaki def had the greatest range in personality from start to finish; I liked her character, but her turn at the end was a bit jarring, especially considering her history and affection for Batou.  I was expecting "N" to actually stand for something; been awhile since I last read 1984, but I couldn't think of anything corresponding. Maybe it had more meaning in the Japanese dialog that was just never explained. IDK. 

I also got the impression that Esaki and Mizukane were somehow related, but if so, it was never explored. That would have been an interesting dynamic, I think. For a silent character, I thought she was far more interesting than Shimamura. Kudos, too, for all the action scenes; if nothing else, second season delivered on some great action sequences, especially the parkour-style scenes. 

The need to actually take control of a nuclear sub seems moot if you've got all your followers tucked away in pods living in a virtual space. I guess that was leverage against the US, though.

I could keep pondering, but I'm tired so I'll let it be for now. I'll have to rewatch the whole thing from the start and maybe stuff will gel better for me.

 

 

 

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

I liked it better than first season, too.  Agree, too, that the original GitS film and SAC were dialog heavy, sometimes too much so for my taste. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Esaki def had the greatest range in personality from start to finish; I liked her character, but her turn at the end was a bit jarring, especially considering her history and affection for Batou.  I was expecting "N" to actually stand for something; been awhile since I last read 1984, but I couldn't think of anything corresponding. Maybe it had more meaning in the Japanese dialog that was just never explained. IDK. 

I also got the impression that Esaki and Mizukane were somehow related, but if so, it was never explored. That would have been an interesting dynamic, I think. For a silent character, I thought she was far more interesting than Shimamura. Kudos, too, for all the action scenes; if nothing else, second season delivered on some great action sequences, especially the parkour-style scenes. 

The need to actually take control of a nuclear sub seems moot if you've got all your followers tucked away in pods living in a virtual space. I guess that was leverage against the US, though.

I could keep pondering, but I'm tired so I'll let it be for now. I'll have to rewatch the whole thing from the start and maybe stuff will gel better for me.

 

 

 

Yeah, as much as I enjoyed Innocence, I even have to admit it went overboard with using dialogue-based exposition. As for certain unsolved SAC 2045 mysteries…

Spoiler

The “N” thing was solved by Esaki, I guess, in a blink and you’ll miss it moment. She realizes that it stands for network and the posthumans are attempting to build a networked community. In a way it does link to other core concepts in GitS that we’ve seen in the other shows—what is the essence of self and how does one define humanity for instance—but I didn’t get the same sense of depth.

There was the whole bit with Esaki knowing that she had lost her ghost but also retaining her emotions which led her to having visceral reactions to events and certain people. That felt like a missed opportunity. It could have been its own subplot running in parallel with Togusa’s side story.

Mizukane came across as a basic foil to me—someone set against the protagonists and who doesn’t get much characterization beyond that. Your interpretation is interesting indeed. When I get a chance to watch the series again, I’ll have to see if I can pick up on those cues. 

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by technoblue

[M'Kyuun]

15 hours ago, technoblue said:

Yeah, as much as I enjoyed Innocence, I even have to admit it went overboard with using dialogue-based exposition. As for certain unsolved SAC 2045 mysteries…

  Hide contents

The “N” thing was solved by Esaki, I guess, in a blink and you’ll miss it moment. She realizes that it stands for network and the posthumans are attempting to build a networked community. In a way it does link to other core concepts in GitS that we’ve seen in the other shows—what is the essence of self and how does one define humanity for instance—but I didn’t get the same sense of depth.

There was the whole bit with Esaki knowing that she had lost her ghost but also retaining her emotions which led her to having visceral reactions to events and certain people. That felt like a missed opportunity. It could have been its own subplot running in parallel with Togusa’s side story.

Mizukane came across as a basic foil to me—someone set against the protagonists and who doesn’t get much characterization beyond that. Your interpretation is interesting indeed. When I get a chance to watch the series again, I’ll have to see if I can pick up on those cues. 

 

Spoiler

"Network" makes sense, but they really only hinted at the scope of what Shimamura had planned when they went into the stadium full of empty pods. At that point, the whole Matrix-like aspect is made apparent. But all the way to the end, I never picked up on "N" meaning "Network" as , unlike the usual heavy GitS exposition explaining everything, oddly they leave more to interpretation in this show. Usually I don't care for all the over-explaining, but maybe as I get older and dumber, I need it spelled out to me.

Esaki's actions during the city scene where she's supposedly helping Togusa escape the Ns, and then beckons him to jump an impossible distance that she should have known he couldn't make seemed out of character. There was a lot of confusing behavior from her where at one point she seemed to have aligned goals (stopping Shimamura), but turning on her staunchest allies, especially Batou. Ghost or no ghost, her essence still seemed to be Esaki, yet her post-death cyborg self was indeed erratic from the flesh & blood Esaki. That in itself could have been its own show where her cyborg self wrestles with her motivations/perceived feelings compared to her former human self. As opposed to a ghost inhabiting a machine body, what happens when the ghost part is eradicated leaving only the essence? The possibility opens itself to questions of conscience, morality, ethics, cares and concerns and would those qualities carry over or be lost?

Mizukane was essentially a two-dimensional character, but her doggedness to complete her mission spoke to motivation and dedication that really wasn't explored. What was her tie to Shimamura that motivated her to work so determinedly for his cause? 

By way of explaining my initial belief that Esaki and Mizukane were perhaps related or associated, my memory is absolutely terrible, but IIRC, when Togusa intially enters the city of Ns and they show Esaki, at that point I believed, initially, that Togusa was in a simulation, and I thought one of the girls standing next to Esaki was Mizukane.  Too, when Esaki does mental battle with Mizakune to control the plane, I got the sense that they knew each other.  I guess I was inferring a relationship that wasn't there. I think it would have been more interesting if there was.

 

[technoblue]

10 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

  Reveal hidden contents

"Network" makes sense, but they really only hinted at the scope of what Shimamura had planned when they went into the stadium full of empty pods. At that point, the whole Matrix-like aspect is made apparent. But all the way to the end, I never picked up on "N" meaning "Network" as , unlike the usual heavy GitS exposition explaining everything, oddly they leave more to interpretation in this show. Usually I don't care for all the over-explaining, but maybe as I get older and dumber, I need it spelled out to me.

Esaki's actions during the city scene where she's supposedly helping Togusa escape the Ns, and then beckons him to jump an impossible distance that she should have known he couldn't make seemed out of character. There was a lot of confusing behavior from her where at one point she seemed to have aligned goals (stopping Shimamura), but turning on her staunchest allies, especially Batou. Ghost or no ghost, her essence still seemed to be Esaki, yet her post-death cyborg self was indeed erratic from the flesh & blood Esaki. That in itself could have been its own show where her cyborg self wrestles with her motivations/perceived feelings compared to her former human self. As opposed to a ghost inhabiting a machine body, what happens when the ghost part is eradicated leaving only the essence? The possibility opens itself to questions of conscience, morality, ethics, cares and concerns and would those qualities carry over or be lost?

Mizukane was essentially a two-dimensional character, but her doggedness to complete her mission spoke to motivation and dedication that really wasn't explored. What was her tie to Shimamura that motivated her to work so determinedly for his cause? 

By way of explaining my initial belief that Esaki and Mizukane were perhaps related or associated, my memory is absolutely terrible, but IIRC, when Togusa intially enters the city of Ns and they show Esaki, at that point I believed, initially, that Togusa was in a simulation, and I thought one of the girls standing next to Esaki was Mizukane.  Too, when Esaki does mental battle with Mizakune to control the plane, I got the sense that they knew each other.  I guess I was inferring a relationship that wasn't there. I think it would have been more interesting if there was.

Indeed. All of those are excellent points, @M'Kyuun. You also chanced upon a detail that I missed completely...

Spoiler

The fact that the girl in the school uniform helping Togusa was Esaki in disguise. I didn't make that connection at all, but it makes sense now given the context. 

Honestly, as a viewer, it was uncanny for me to see those scenes handed to Esaki in place of Kusanagi but I can see how the creative team was trying to build up this new character for us and give her prominence in the story. Maybe it's just me or the fact that I missed important details in my first viewing. Anyway, I do plan to watch it all again once the second season is released on blu-ray in Japan. It will be fun to look back and compare these early impressions once I give the story another chance later on.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by technoblue

[Dynaman]

It took me a while to get around to watching the second season but it is a heck of a lot better then the first so far.  

[Knight26]

It was an interesting series, but I HATED the ending.

[no3Ljm]

GHOST IN THE "N". Hyundai IONIQ 5 N collaboration with Ghost In The Shell SAC_2045.
https://www.hyundai.com/jp/brandstory/ghostintheshell