Ghost in the Shell SAC_2045

[Big s]

Wow the cg looks like crap! What the hell were they thinking. It looks like old video game cutscenes. It’s a shame they didn’t use the animation style from the old series.

[Chronocidal]

Honestly, I'd be up for it, I think the voicework and animation are on target.

But please for the love of all that is holy, take that sound track, light it on fire, encase it in cement, and shoot it into the sun.  That is not fitting in the slightest.  In fact, it feels incredibly familiar for all the wrong reasons, being that it sounds like a mashup of the jazz feel in Cowboy Bebop, mixed with a dash of the recent CGI Lupin movie, and topped with a layer of edgy punk-rap that wishes it was Yoko Kanno.

Just.. no.  Nothing about that sounds right in the slightest, and it's the entirely wrong tone for the series, compared with the previous masterpieces we got from Kanno in the previous SAC series soundtracks.

[JetJockey]

Seems like the look of Motoko or just overall Ghost in the Shell keeps taking a step down with these releases after Stand Alone Complex. I guess it was too much to make this look like that Blade Runner anime short. Hopefully if there is a new Mospeada it doesn't go the same route.

[AN/ALQ128]

6 hours ago, JetJockey said:

Seems like the look of Motoko or just overall Ghost in the Shell keeps taking a step down with these releases after Stand Alone Complex. I guess it was too much to make this look like that Blade Runner anime short. Hopefully if there is a new Mospeada it doesn't go the same route.

Ilya Kuvshinov's work is extremely generic, so I'm not surprised that his character designs for GiTS are similarly boring and give off "Dollar Store" knockoff vibes.

[Bolt]

The sparse, desert  Salton Sea location seems out of place to me. Maybe that's just my programming..

[no3Ljm]

[no3Ljm]

[no3Ljm]

[M'Kyuun]

Um, ok. Not sure what's up with chibi Motoko, but the new Tachi looks cool, minus the flotation device attached to its butt. Shame the joint work isn't as smooth and seamless as the art work depicts on the Lil' Major. Those huge elbows, gappy hips, and unnatural looking knees just throw off the look of the figure.

[505thAirborne]

 

[JB0]

On 10/25/2019 at 12:40 PM, M'Kyuun said:

 Using 'Major' as a name rather than a rank- made me cringe every time.

I grant that making it a name is weird, but I think of the character as "Major Kusanagi" most of the time.

 

On 10/25/2019 at 12:40 PM, M'Kyuun said:

Her brain is organic- No, just no. Full cyborg with a cyberbrain that is also manufactured. As she said in the original, the govt pretty much owns her, and her other cyborg comrades, until they can pay off the hardware. I realize they were trying to humanize her for the film, but I think they should have stayed true to the original character in this regard.

In the original comics, brains are one of the few pieces of anatomy that can't really be completely replaced by artificial hardware. Cyberbrains AUGMENT people's wet, meaty OEM CPUs.

And friggin' SLAVES indentured servants? In the original, the major shows up with a combat-spec body well before she's ever hired by the government, and I can't see someone as "free-spirited" as her agreeing to sign on with an agency that would literally own her afterwards.

[M'Kyuun]

11 hours ago, JB0 said:

I grant that making it a name is weird, but I think of the character as "Major Kusanagi" most of the time.

Coming from a military background, it just sounds odd to me to refer to her by her rank as if it's her name. In referencing a military member, one addresses them by rank, i.e. Sergeant, Chief, Lieutenant, etc. When referencing a military member to another military member, then 'the' is placed before the person's rank, especially when referencing Chief Master Sergeants and above. I'm speaking from an Air Force POV. The ranks differ among the various branches, especially the Navy, but the etiquette of address remains the same. So, after twenty years of living that environment, it's ingrained, and to hear something different just strikes me as odd and out of place. To folks with no military experience, I wouldn't expect it to sound as odd. 

11 hours ago, JB0 said:

In the original comics, brains are one of the few pieces of anatomy that can't really be completely replaced by artificial hardware. Cyberbrains AUGMENT people's wet, meaty OEM CPUs.

And friggin' SLAVES indentured servants? In the original, the major shows up with a combat-spec body well before she's ever hired by the government, and I can't see someone as "free-spirited" as her agreeing to sign on with an agency that would literally own her afterwards.

I've never read the manga, so my only familiarity with GitS is the movie and the SAC series. In the movie, while speaking to Batou, she mentions, when they're out on the boat (start at 1:34), that Section 9 owns their bodies and cyber-brains. So far as cyber-brains go, it's purely my inference that they are devoid of organics. It makes more sense to me, but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, and I doubt it's the last. SAC established that Motoko had been a cyborg for most of her life, having survived a plane crash at an early age, and given full-body prosthesis to save her life. I hadn't recalled this particular detail, but according to the Wiki, only her brain and spinal cord remain of her original organic body. So, I was certainly wrong about her brain being fully artificial. I guess she wouldn't be a true cyborg if there wasn't something organic remaining. I concede the point.

The trailer for the new show isn't grabbing me. There's a simplicity to the dialog that makes it feel like this is GitS Lite, as if it's targeted to a younger demographic. SAC was a mature show, both in terms of subject matter and dialog, and set a benchmark, in my mind, that will be hard to better. This new show, subsequently, feels like a step backwards in the franchise, based on the trailers. I didn't enjoy GitS: Arise as much as SAC, but it was still written to a mature level. I guess Netflix is trying to cast a wider net for their audience, but I get the sense that the show is just going to be a cliche ridden kid's show.

[Chronocidal]

Ugh.  Not the wider audience fallacy again.   

[Dynaman]

I have Netflix so I'll watch it.  If I had to get some other service I might have waited for a review of the released show.

[sh9000]

[technoblue]

If we're judging solely on looks, then yeah, it's different when comparing it to the CGI that they used for the "Inner Universe" opening from GitS SAC (2002).  The CGI isn't a deal breaker for me, though. I like the style. I read that a new artist from Russia is working on the character designs this time (Ilya Kuvshinov). That's got to be an awesome opportunity to get that kind of exposure. As for the story, I don't have much to say on that after watching a short teaser but I noticed that Shinji Aramaki and Kenji Kamiyama are working together directing so I'm hopeful.

Definitely looking forward to the late April release for this one. Will be fun to see Section 9 at it again.

[Lexomatic]

On 3/21/2020 at 5:11 PM, M'Kyuun said:

In the movie, while speaking to Batou, she mentions, when they're out on the boat (start at 1:34), that Section 9 owns their bodies and cyber-brains. So far as cyber-brains go, it's purely my inference that they are devoid of organics.

Look at it this way: A cyber-brain is a combination of original biological tissue, prosthetic hardware, and software. As I interpret the line, the government owns the cyber-brain by virtue of the labor, not because it's commodity hardware into which the "ghost" has been transplanted, and from which it could be evicted. It's analogous to a U.S. government ROTC scholarship, which must be repaid in years of military service.

The phrasing is IMHO a bit awkward, but how cyber-technology challenges the traditional "brain/body/ghost" dichotomy is the major theme of the GITS franchise. "I own you, body and soul, mwa-ha-ha" is considered hyperbole until the soul is subject to technological manipulation.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Lexomatic
+As I interpret the line

[JetJockey]

This is probably the first time I'm not really excited for a new Ghost in the Shell series. But we do have a new Westworld season which has a bit of Ghost in the Shell in the 3rd season's opening.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by JetJockey

[treatment]

I've pretty much stop getting SHF and Figmas (even nendos), but is anybody getting figma Batou?

https://www.amiami.com/eng/detail?gcode=FIGURE-058257

[M'Kyuun]

On 4/14/2020 at 4:52 PM, JetJockey said:

This is probably the first time I'm not really excited for a new Ghost in the Shell series. But we do have a new Westworld season which has a bit of Ghost in the Shell in the 3rd season's opening.

 

Definitely hints of the original GitS Movie opening in there. I like the robot hands reaching for the robo-eagle; it's a nice not-so-subtle  metaphor. Looking much more forward to WW third season than I am to the new GitS show, even with the original Japanese creators on board. Based on the trailers, it just seems too kiddified for my liking.

[tekering]

2 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Looking much more forward to WW third season than I am to the new GitS show, even with the original Japanese creators on board.

Westworld is far more compelling than last season, with flashback sequences that serve to enrich the narrative (rather than confusing it).

I'd never considered the parallels before, but there are definitely deep thematic links with Mamoru Oshii's Ghost in the Shell...

[Bolt]

Has anyone checked this out yet? I'm gonna start season 1 tonight..

[technoblue]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Has anyone checked this out yet? I'm gonna start season 1 tonight..

Just one episode in so far, but I think it's starting out strong with an interesting story. The trick will be if you can look beyond the character styling and (of course) the CG. 

I should note up front that I was a fan of the 2004 and 2007 Appleseed movies which also used a bucket load of CG, so there's that. 

Kusanagi's character model is different, which was expected. Togusa is slightly different too, but that was probably done to show the passage of time. I think Aramaki's hair looks kind of goofy in CG. I definitely have a preference for his hand-drawn look, but it isn't a deal breaker for me and doesn't get in the way of anything. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by technoblue

[Dynaman]

Not yet but thanks for the reminder.  This one is on the list as soon as I finish up Star Trek: Discovery - interesting enough to watch as part of my free month but I won't be paying...

Looking forward to this one and hope it is good.  I really liked the 2004 Appleseed, much better then the older one.  The 2007 sequel I was not too impressed with.

[kajnrig]

Okay, so this IS a sequel, then? Not another standalone (hurr) universe? I know the "SAC" would imply it's set in specifically the SAC version of GitS, but just asking for sure.

[technoblue]

18 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Okay, so this IS a sequel, then? Not another standalone (hurr) universe? I know the "SAC" would imply it's set in specifically the SAC version of GitS, but just asking for sure.

I'm going to say, yes. The events at the end of SAC 2nd GiG do play into this series (that is, what happened to Section 9 and where Aramaki ends up).

[Bolt]

I like it. 

3 hours ago, technoblue said:

The trick will be if you can look beyond the character styling and (of course) the CG. 

Definitely for me too. Although the movements are well captured.

Spoiler alert! There's reactive armor! Lol

3 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Okay, so this IS a sequel, then? Not another standalone (hurr) universe? I know the "SAC" would imply it's set in specifically the SAC version of GitS, but just asking for sure.

I would say definitely, yes.

Loved the Dudweiser beer intro. And The chief's later entrance was bad ass. 

Also the writing is very much echoing reality in some ways. IMO. The Palm Springs and LA background  was also quite novel. 

Episode 7 was fun. Batou is finally growing on me. The last frame of episode 8 says it all.  The prime minister of Japan is an interesting character. And certain parts of the series are trippy. 

[tekering]

I'm not as taken with the show as Bolt.  For starters, editing and story structure make it clear that this was not written or produced as a series, but a feature... and that the decision to break it up into half-hour episodes was made late in the production process.  Individual episodes don't build to a climax, they just abruptly end.

The opening action scene is a thrilling chase sequence, involving numerous combatants firing automatic weapons at each other from open-air vehicles.  While the vehicles suffer damage in the resulting hail of bullets, RPGs, and missile strikes -- and people are thrown from their precarious positions by explosive impacts and high-speed crashes -- there's no blood spilled, and miraculously, nobody even seems to have gotten shot.  

Was SAC always this bloodless?  The original film sure as hell wasn't!  

It seems unlikely Netflix would be imposing any kind of censorship... especially considering the surprising amount of littering our heroes do.  

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Although the movements are well captured.

Dynamic actions are, I agree; the characters look good when they're leaping around and fighting, and they have a legitimate sense of weight to their movements.

Basic motions like walking or standing around, however, often look awkwardly distracting.

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

The Palm Springs and LA background  was also quite novel. 

Oh, the settings are fascinating, and exquisitely rendered.  

[vladykins]

Haven't watched yet, since the CGI is making me cringe still. For those watching, is this also taking into account SAC:SSS?

2 hours ago, tekering said:

Was SAC always this bloodless?  The original film sure as hell wasn't!  

 

Most definitely not.

[blackconvoy_D01]

I watched it yesterday. It picks up 10 years after 2nd gig. It does take SSS into account as the Tachikomas are brought back in SSS, from their sacrifice in 2nd GIG. The CGI took "warming" up to and the story starts getting better by the 4th episode. Overall I enjoyed it. I'll be looking forward to the next 12.

Edited April 24, 2020 by blackconvoy_D01

[AN/ALQ128]

I think its awful. There are a couple sequences in the first episode where I had to do a double take, they looked like amateur SFM animations (that scene where the Major and Batou shoot at Huges' feet while he breakdances is just mindboggling in a not very good way).

[Major Focker]

i liked it.

the story's pretty good and the social commentary hits home (devaluation, social media mob trials, proxy wars). i agree it's not written episodically, and i can imagine how jarring some of the abrupt episode endings would be if the show was aired on weekly basis. i watched it on Netflix so that wasn't an issue, and other than 2 or 3 break spots, it seems to have been formatted for binge watching. i grew to appreciate the continuity of one episode's ending straight onto the next. in fact i would argue that in a number of shows (anime or TV) quite a bit of screen time is wasted in setting up the "hook" for the next episode, sometimes artificially (or prematurely) raising the suspense at the expense of the story's flow. for sure this is almost a necessity (or at least an expectation) for weekly shows, but it is not necessary in a platform like Netflix where multi episode dumps are increasingly the norm.   

i enjoyed the Appleseed movies so you could say i'm not CG averse. i did almost drop Ajin after the first episode because of the CG, picking it up again month's later, and was immensely satisfied with the story.

so, no, CG didn't kill SAC2045 for me. plus, this Motoko's got a cute butt.

[kajnrig]

https://files.catbox.moe/lri66x.webm

I'm sure this scene makes sense in context, but boy is it goofy as hell.

[technoblue]

2 hours ago, kajnrig said:

https://files.catbox.moe/lri66x.webm

I'm sure this scene makes sense in context, but boy is it goofy as hell.

LoL. IMO, that scene did carry on longer than it needed to. It made sense, yes, but like so much modern storytelling it fails in that it keeps hammering an obvious plot idea to the point of making it ridiculous. I think they could have figured some other way to give the audience just enough information to let us know that Patrick Huge wasn't what he appeared to be. When the action started, it would have been better if they fixed the layout of the room so that Huge had an easier exit when the Major's team started to get the upper hand.

Edited April 25, 2020 by technoblue

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

I just wrapped up the first 12 episodes.. or whatever Netflix has out currently, and TBH I liked it.

Good to see new material and a continuation of the SAC storyline.

I wasn't really sold on Arise,  and I've wanted a continuation of SAC since 2nd Gig and SSS.