Neon Genesis EVANGELION General Thread

[TehPW]

39 minutes ago, Hikuro said:

I know a lot of people who won’t watch an anime unless it’s dubbed because it’s to difficult to read the subtitles and watch what’s on screen and process the story. 

Not everyone is capable of multi-tasking...

Seto: That advert IS a lie. What I find offensive is that they have to redub the whole effort. What is the official reason why?

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Seto: That advert IS a lie. What I find offensive is that they have to redub the whole effort. What is the official reason why?

I've not found any official statement from Netflix that identifies their reason for redubbing Neon Genesis Evangelion.  

Most of the speculation, both from those in the industry and the general public, centers around the two most likely explanations:

 

1.  Netflix was unable to secure the original ADV Films English dub audio tracks, either because...

• ... the successor companies who divided up and purchased A.D. Vision's assets when the company went under aren't certain which of them, or which combination of them, own the rights to those audio tracks.
• ... the actual physical media for the English dub audio tracks was misplaced during the division and sale of A.D. Vision's assets.

OR

2.  Netflix made a conscious decision not to use the ADV Films dub audio tracks, either because...

• ... Netflix believes they can independently produce a higher-quality, more accurate dub of Neon Genesis Evangelion.
• ... Netflix is unwilling to complicate its release plans for Neon Genesis Evangelion by having to enter into a separate set of licensing agreements and royalty obligations just for a dub audio track.

 

As a businessman and lifelong cynic, my suspicion is 2b... that Netflix doesn't want the added cost and complexity of a separate license for the dub audio.  I could also see a case for either version of explanation 1 though.

Frankly, I never much cared for the English dub of Neon Genesis Evangelion so this is kind of a non-issue for me.  Though in all fairness I defected to Team Subs early on, and tend to find most dubs painful to listen to these days.

[JB0]

53 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... the successor companies who divided up and purchased A.D. Vision's assets when the company went under aren't certain which of them, or which combination of them, own the rights to those audio tracks. 

I believe almost all of those companies recombined into Section23 Films, so if the rights survived ADV's dissolution, they almost certainly now rest with Section23. 

Near the company's end, a bunch of new companies(each owned by a member of ADV's board) were suddenly founded, and ADV sold some portion of their assets to each of them. And then they declared bankruptcy.  And then after the bankruptcy sale, all these new anime companies recombined into a single company with the vast majority of ADV's pre-bankruptcy assets. Basically, ADV did an Open Get to dodge most of the consequences of bankruptcy.

I'm highly skeptical it was even remotely legal, but no one seems to have noticed or cared.

 

 

I think the real reason for the new dub is so they can call it "a Netflix Original"(which I simply assume they do).

[505thAirborne]

8 hours ago, Convectuoso said:

Why do people in the US prefer dubbed anime? 

While I prefer Subtitled, if it's a good quality cast (which is rare) I don't mind Dubbed once in a while. 

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Frankly, I never much cared for the English dub of Neon Genesis Evangelion so this is kind of a non-issue for me.  Though in all fairness I defected to Team Subs early on, and tend to find most dubs painful to listen to these days.

Same and same. Tiffany Grant (Asuka) conveniently actually knew German, so her lines were actually intelligible as opposed to the original VA's Nihongerman. But besides that, I didn't find any bit of the English dub that interesting. I think Grant even ad-libbed some of her German (because of the aforementioned unintelligible Nihongerman), which potentially fundamentally messed with the associated scenes. The English dub of EoE similarly took some creative liberties, including to the audio mixing, that missed their marks.

[treatment]

I like english-dubs when they sound well and are rather pleasant to listen to.  GITS-SAC, Bebop, Samurai Champloo, FLCL, even Macross Plus, etc.

However, the old ADV english-vocals on the EVA series were all very and really horrible to my ears to this day.

I don't even get how any body can stand listening to them.

Just coz somebody knows German doesn't really equate them being pleasant to listen to.

Guess I just hope Netflix's new english-vocals will correct that long-standing fail...

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, JB0 said:

I believe almost all of those companies recombined into Section23 Films, so if the rights survived ADV's dissolution, they almost certainly now rest with Section23. 

They're all still separate companies, but they all do business with each other through Section23 Films... which functions as the distributor.

A.D. Vision was too monolithic to absorb periodic losses and as a result it eventually went bankrupt.  In practice, what they did when they liquidated A.D. Vision's assets was reorganize from a monolithic company to an ersatz keiretsu.  They set up a new distribution company (Section23 Films) to be A.D. Vision's successor and spun off each of A.D. Vision's divisions as its own separate company with the understanding that each would distribute exclusively through Section23 Films and then essentially sold the assets to themselves.  That way, each of the new organization's genre-specific companies is a separate entity and if one goes under it doesn't take the whole group with it.

Their anime licensing arm - ADV Films - was divided up and spun off as three separate companies: Sentai Filmworks, Maiden Japan, and AEsir Holdings.  The division handling the live-action Japanese shows and films was divided up and spun off as two separate companies: Switchblade Pictures and Kraken Releasing.  ADV Kidz, the group handling children's shows, was spun off as Sentai Kidz.  A.D. Vision's hentai branch didn't even change names, they just established a new company using the same name as ADV's existing label.

They never recombined, they just have an arrangement where all of those companies spun off from A.D. Vision use A.D. Vision's successor company Section23 Films as their primary distributor.  Granted, the result is almost a distinction without difference.  They're legally separate companies but they act more or less like divisions of a single company.

 

2 minutes ago, JB0 said:

I'm highly skeptical it was even remotely legal, but no one seems to have noticed or cared.

It's legal.  One might say that it is not entirely consistent with the spirit of the law, but it does abide by the letter.

One of my former employers, Ford Motor, does something like this every few years with the supplier Visteon... the regifted fruitcake of the auto industry.  Their supplier relationship never changes, but whenever they get into financial trouble as a solo outfit Ford buys them and when they get into trouble under Ford's umbrella Ford spins them off again.  It lets Visteon get into debt and shed debt in reorganization over and over again.

 

2 minutes ago, JB0 said:

I think the real reason for the new dub is so they can call it "a Netflix Original"(which I simply assume they do).

That'd be both parts of option 2.

[Convectuoso]

10 hours ago, Hikuro said:

I know a lot of people who won’t watch an anime unless it’s dubbed because it’s to difficult to read the subtitles and watch what’s on screen and process the story. 

 

15 hours ago, F-ZeroOne said:

I'm not so sure its the US specifically, but the usual argument is dubs pull in a larger potential market share as people don't like reading (or, fairly, have trouble reading and watching at the same time).

Though I've always admired "Evangelion" for the way it shook things up a bit (mecha shows were in a bit of a rut at the time, though having said that I've also never quite forgiven it for what it did to mecha pilots either), its never been a personal favourite of mine. It also seemed a bit less clever once I finally got to see some of its inspirations, like "Ideon" and "Dunbine".

 

7 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

While I prefer Subtitled, if it's a good quality cast (which is rare) I don't mind Dubbed once in a while. 

Well. As someone who lives in a Spanish-speaking country, we grow used to watching all Hollywood movies subtitled, because the old '90s dubs left a lot of the sound effects mute. Of course, all cartoons were dubbed, but once the internet became the source of all media, it felt natural for me watch anime subtitled, to hear things exactly as intended to be. 

Now it's almost impossible for me to even consider watching dubbed anime, because I know that no dub will ever be as axpressive as the real thing. 

[TehPW]

Thank You, Seto. Now I distrust modern business even more, knowing how they avoid responsibility(s)...

[kajnrig]

3 hours ago, Convectuoso said:

Now it's almost impossible for me to even consider watching dubbed anime, because I know that no dub will ever be as axpressive as the real thing. 

I dunno about that. Cowboy Bebop's American dub famously set such a high bar for English dub work that even director Shinichiro Watanabe prefers it to the original Japanese dub, and there have been more good to great dubs since then. That said, I think the only reason NGE's dub is remembered as a good one is because that's what people heard on Cartoon Network as kids. I think I bought the original DVDs/VHSes before they ever got the show on CN, so I had the choice of not listening to it.

I'm sure there must be some Spanish dubs (either done in Chile or elsewhere) that have outdone their original Japanese counterparts.

[Keith]

Actually, I recall Anno not liking something about the dub translation, which is likely to be the true reason.

[slide]

Just now, kajnrig said:

I dunno about that. Cowboy Bebop's American dub famously set such a high bar for English dub work that even director Shinichiro Watanabe prefers it to the original Japanese dub, and there have been more good to great dubs since then. That said, I think the only reason NGE's dub is remembered as a good one is because that's what people heard on Cartoon Network as kids. I think I bought the original DVDs/VHSes before they ever got the show on CN, so I had the choice of not listening to it.

I'm sure there must be some Spanish dubs (either done in Chile or elsewhere) that have outdone their original Japanese counterparts.

Hiyao Miyazaki's Favorite voicetrack for Porco Rosso is the French one, with Jean Reno as Porco, makes some sense given the setting, and he's wonderful in the role.

 

I've been in both camps: when I was young, I wanted it in English. In my teens [and upon re-discovering Macross] I wanted it all subs.... now I don't particularly care, it simply effects how I must consume the series/movie. If it's in English I can f-around while watching... if it's in Japanese I need to pay attention.

 

If there's a dub, and it's not terribly acted/sticks to the original story [lookin' at YOU, ROBOTECH], that's probably how I'll consume it.

 

I watched Frontier as it was released ep-by-ep via fansubs.

I actually do enjoy this aspect of subs: it gives me a chance to pick up words and phrases in other languages. 

My first memory of Subtitles is the opening scene of Охота на Красный Октябрь [the Hunt for Red October]... where they did it right: and Started with subs, then faded into English... I kind of wish more productions would do it that way...

 

 

Its been so long since I've watched the original EVA that I'm not beholden to the original voicecast... I just hope the new one is up to that level, as I recall it being great.

[eXis10z]

Wait, so this will be in English dub only?

[Sildani]

Pretty sure, yes. 

[kajnrig]

7 hours ago, eXis10z said:

Wait, so this will be in English dub only?

2 hours ago, Sildani said:

Pretty sure, yes. 

I don't think so. We were simply discussing the fact that there is a new English dub; Netflix aren't going with the old ADV dub.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 3/24/2019 at 10:31 AM, TehPW said:

Thank You, Seto. Now I distrust modern business even more, knowing how they avoid responsibility(s)...

That's just an electron orbiting a hydrogen nucleus in a water molecule on the very tip of a continent-sized iceberg...

 

10 hours ago, eXis10z said:

Wait, so this will be in English dub only?

It's Neflix... so almost certainly not.

They'll likely include at least the two language audio options, and probably two dozen different subtitle options.

These are the same people who - no joke - offered a Klingon subtitle option for Star Trek: Discovery.

[RavenHawk]

29 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

These are the same people who - no joke - offered a Klingon subtitle option for Star Trek: Discovery.

Discovery? That one isn't on Netflix (at least not in the US).

[Seto Kaiba]

33 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Discovery? That one isn't on Netflix (at least not in the US).

Not in the US, but everywhere else.

It's Netflix tho, so we can expect they'll offer dual audio and a plethora of subtitle options for Neon Genesis Evangelion at the very least.

[RavenHawk]

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not in the US, but everywhere else.

It's Netflix tho, so we can expect they'll offer dual audio and a plethora of subtitle options for Neon Genesis Evangelion at the very least.

Don't mess with me like that, getting me all excited that I'll finally be able to watch Discovery...

[Convectuoso]

7 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Don't mess with me like that, getting me all excited that I'll finally be able to watch Discovery...

Why not use a VPN to tell Netflix you are somewhere else? 

[eXis10z]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:19 PM, kajnrig said:

I don't think so. We were simply discussing the fact that there is a new English dub; Netflix aren't going with the old ADV dub.

 

On 3/26/2019 at 11:37 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's Neflix... so almost certainly not.

They'll likely include at least the two language audio options, and probably two dozen different subtitle options.

These are the same people who - no joke - offered a Klingon subtitle option for Star Trek: Discovery.

OK that's a relief. It'll be a pity if we can't watch it in its original language.

[mikeszekely]

On 3/23/2019 at 3:48 PM, Convectuoso said:

Why do people in the US prefer dubbed anime? 

I don't.  Matter of fact, Devil May Cry (the anime) was free on the PlayStation store a bit ago.  I bought it, put the first episode on, immediately realized it was dubbed, and shut it off.  I think the VAs that they get to dub anime these days are better than the late '90s and early aughts, but back in the day they were downright terrible.  Between that and the fact that I got into the scene back when it was people trading fansubbed VHS tapes and I just developed a strong preference for subtitles.

On that note, I guess I'd be kind of mad if I was hardcore into the dubbed version of Evangelion back in the day, because a new dub just wouldn't be what I remembered.  But like I said, dubs were pretty heinous back in the day.  There's a fair chance Netflix' new dub will be better, but either way it doesn't matter much to me.

[no3Ljm]

For those who interested on expanding their Eva collections.

Vertex 1/6 Evangelion Entry Plug Interior.

Featuring Asuka for Y53800.
https://www.amiami.com/eng/detail/?gcode=FIGURE-049441

Featuring Rei for Y53800.
https://www.amiami.com/eng/detail/?gcode=FIGURE-049440

 

[electric indigo]

I prefer the Rei that came with the smaller version.

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

Normally I would be right with everyone in knocking ADVs normally crappy dubs. 

However..  in this instance Asuka's JP VA generally makes my ears bleed.    That combined with the mangling of German.. hard pass.

As far as dubs go,  eva's dub while not perfect is not half as bad as people here are making it sound.

And if you compare it to modern dubs... even the worst ADV dub is a masterpiece.     

Modern dubs have nosedived into Dumpster fire territory and I doubt this will be any different.

 

So hard pass on the new Dub.

 

[no3Ljm]

ThreeZero's EVA-01 as shown at WonderFestival Shanghai 2019.

 

[seti88]

I like .........the fact they photographed the no photography sign and circulated it.

[505thAirborne]

Trying to watch the Evangelion on Netflix right now, the new dub isn't very good IMHO. The sound effects & background music have been re-edited too.... definitely not the old school ADV release.

If you want to have your nostalgia mind trip and enjoy this series, break out the old DVD's.

[Sildani]

They ditched Fly Me to the Moon as well for the end credits, for licensing issues. Netflix Japan still has it, though. 

[Mazinger]

5 hours ago, Sildani said:

They ditched Fly Me to the Moon as well for the end credits, for licensing issues. Netflix Japan still has it, though. 

Darn, that was a nice ending theme. Away from Netflix right now, but eager to see it with the new dub/cast. 

[Brand]

10 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

The sound effects & background music have been re-edited too...

So it's the ADV dub of Macross all over again.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Brand said:

So it's the ADV dub of Macross all over again.

Yup.

[Brand]

Welp, good thing I've got the DVDs. Sucks that it went that far off though. A new voice cast I can at least understand but the sound effects and music weren't part of ADV's dub of Eva, I dunno why they'd have to change it all unless all they could get the license for was literally just the animation. Not being able to license "Fly Me to the Moon" I can understand but BGM is usually part and parcel with the program. (Not always, but usually.)

[505thAirborne]

My old DVD's are in the storage unit somewhere but correct if I'm wrong. ADV Films did do the original (late 90's) DVD dub right? I remember getting these when Anime Plus was still in business in Northridge. 

 

[easnoddy]

That's ADV. I have the first release. I don't really care for the dub. The guy who does Shinji seems like he's always yelling.  Very different from the Japanese language version.