Neflix's live action Cowboy Bebop

[arbit]

My two cents: The show's weakness wasn't one particular scene or another, it was an overall lack in quality, the director's inability to make the action scenes impressive (whether in street fighting or space scenes), the CG director's lack of vision, the costume designer and makeup's many faux pas, and the writer's inability to capture a more serious and mysterious tone for the characters and back story.  As usual in bad movies, too much exposition is just too much.

I would still take bad Netflix Bebop over 95% of the crap on there now, and I think the team could have caught a groove in proceeding seasons.

See you space cowboy...

[pengbuzz]

I also wonder if they cancelled it due to needing money to keep another of their series going?

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, arbit said:

[...] the CG director's lack of vision, [...]

... really?  I thought the CG was pretty good in a lot of places and averaged at least "passable".  That first shot of the Bebop going through the gate was pretty sweet, IMO.  Spike's Swordfish was pretty damn well done too.

 

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

I also wonder if they cancelled it due to needing money to keep another of their series going?

I dunno... I'm inclined to doubt it, if only because recent-ish news from another franchise makes it looks like Netflix already cut the worst of its underperforming assets back in Q4 2020 or Q1 2021.  Y'know, Star Trek: Discovery... ViacomCBS's $100M+ per season money pit.  That one cut was likely enough to fund Cowboy Bebop in its entirety with anywhere from $17-40M left over given the average per-episode expenditure for shows like this.

Normally when Netflix marks a series for cancellation this quickly it's because its average viewership rate is way below expectations.

[arbit]

41 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

averaged at least "passable"

Agreed.  That is what I meant by lacking the vision... the vision required to stand out as a sci-fi series, given the competition, and the precedent set by great sci-fi anime.

 

[blackconvoy_D01]

On my 3rd full season rewatch. I still like it. It's not perfect; but it's good. There's a lot of either original or remixed music I wish were on the soundtrack.

Edited December 17, 2021 by blackconvoy_D01

[blackconvoy_D01]

Follow up- adding change.org petition to save the show;

https://chng.it/YqNjSHsvCt

C'mon ppl!

Edited December 18, 2021 by blackconvoy_D01

[Dynaman]

Not going to happen.  Want to get it saved, get those who have not streamed it to do so.

[jenius]

I just finished it last night. I LOVED what they did with Julia. For all those folks who were like "They screwed up Vicious!" it shows that it was intentional and that they were working toward diverging more from the anime as the series went on. Such a bummer of a place to leave it! Overall, I definitely liked it more than I disliked it but I would count myself only as a casual fan of the original anime so I didn't have any gospel issues to overcome. 

[blackconvoy_D01]

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

Not going to happen.  Want to get it saved, get those who have not streamed it to do so.

They said the Synder Cut didn't exist and/ or wouldnt be released.

They said Macross would never come to the US.

Your point IS valid, but that doesn't mean we can't approach from every avenue either! 

Stranger things have happened per above!

Edited December 18, 2021 by blackconvoy_D01

[Dynaman]

The difference between those other shows and CB are that Netflix knows exactly what the viewership was (and will be) and if it does not go much much higher Netflix will have no interest.  Netflix would not have said NO to a second season so quickly if viewership was anywhere near what they wanted.  The Snyder cut was trying to get more cash out of a LARGE investment that did not pan out, a new season of CB would be throwing good money after bad.  Macross in the US has no correlation whatsoever.

[blackconvoy_D01]

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

The difference between those other shows and CB are that Netflix knows exactly what the viewership was (and will be) and if it does not go much much higher Netflix will have no interest.  Netflix would not have said NO to a second season so quickly if viewership was anywhere near what they wanted.  The Snyder cut was trying to get more cash out of a LARGE investment that did not pan out, a new season of CB would be throwing good money after bad.  Macross in the US has no correlation whatsoever.

😕

1- The correlation is that things that people said would not happen; happened! Lets see where it goes.

2- Of course the context for each situation is completely different.

Lastly: Netflix has created 2nd seasons for less popular shows.

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Follow up- adding change.org petition to save the show;

https://chng.it/YqNjSHsvCt

C'mon ppl!

Alternatively, there are also now apparently several change.org petitions to have the cancellation stand.

Of course, being change.org petitions, they rank somewhere below temporary profile pictures and "thoughts and prayers" in terms of instigating meaningful change... so the Netflix execs who made the call are unlikely to notice or care either way.

[blackconvoy_D01]

7 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Alternatively, there are also now apparently several change.org petitions to have the cancellation stand.

Of course, being change.org petitions, they rank somewhere below temporary profile pictures and "thoughts and prayers" in terms of instigating meaningful change... so the Netflix execs who made the call are unlikely to notice or care either way.

Noted. I counted 2-3 anti Cowboy Bebop/ keep it canceled; and their numbers aren't as significant vs the pro petitions. Despite maybe not carry weight with Netflix execs., I'm pleased with the initiative and I'll support it.

[Dynaman]

12 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

😕

1- The correlation is that things that people said would not happen; happened! Lets see where it goes.

 

Miracles do happen.  But I don't count on it myself.

[Big s]

The problem with this show getting renewed is that most of the people that finished the first season didn’t like it and most people either checked out the first episode and then didn’t come back or people heard from word of mouth that it wasn’t worth it at all. If it just wasn’t popular, but the fan base was all in then it may have been renewed 

[Seto Kaiba]

It's interesting that we're seeing so many cancellations from the major streaming services lately... especally from Netflix.  Netflix had a whopping THIRTEEN shows cancelled after a single season this past year.  Most other streaming services only had about four, though they may be somewhat insulated from that because they aren't going quite so hard with original direct-to-streaming programming.  Either way, it seems like Netflix has abandoned the Sunk Costs Fallacy that protected all but the weakest network TV shows in favor of giving underperforming properties the axe right away.

I suspect that if the critics hadn't been just as brutal to Cowboy Bebop as general audiences were Netflix might've at least entertained the idea of trying to salvage it, but it seems pretty unlikely that they'll decide to give it a second chance after the drubbing it got.

[Sanity is Optional]

Netflix certainly seems like they're going venture capital route: spam a bunch of shows out in the hopes one or two are hits (Stranger Things, Arcane, Etc...).

[Seto Kaiba]

12 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Netflix certainly seems like they're going venture capital route: spam a bunch of shows out in the hopes one or two are hits (Stranger Things, Arcane, Etc...).

To be fair, that's basically how whole sectors of the entertainment industry work.

Especially the anime industry.

Run out a bunch of different concepts all at once and hope that one of them becomes a runaway hit that brings in enough profit to cover the losses incurred by the ones that flop, while the majority break even either immediately or in the long term.  

What's surprising is that Netflix is apparently so divorced from the sunk costs fallacy that they pulled the plug on Cowboy Bebop after just one season despite it being a reasonably well-established and respected brand.  You'd normally expect a studio to be willing to run a property like that at a loss for a while in the hopes that it'd eventually catch on and that the profits from a delayed success would offset the initial losses... like what Paramount tried (and failed at when the backers pulled out early) with the J.J. Abrams Star Trek films.

Cowboy Bebop could be salvaged if Netflix were willing to have the producers cut the campy BS... but I get the feeling that's $70M they're not willing to spend on second chances when they're already hurting a bit from the segmentation of the streaming market.  (Ironically, it'd probably also be pretty good if they went all-in on the camp and just dropped its connection to Cowboy Bebop.  The half-measures really ruin it.)

[TehPW]

😁

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

So I figured I gave this enough time to cool down a little bit and give it a watch.   I got to the 3rd episode and I have hit a wall,  I do eventually plan on moving forward but at this stage I think I have seen enough to see the point of some the more critical viewpoints.   

1.) The first time I saw Vicious I literally laughed out loud. 

2.) Faye is not Faye..  honestly with how much they have tried to mirror things it very much seems like the director or actress does not understand the character or needs better direction on how to play her.

3.) Jet has a wife and Kids?  and Chalmers is with his replacement?  C'mon man this is as funny as Vicious. 

 

At this stage,  it very much feels like they are trying too hard.    I love the opening,  and I am enjoying the music in general.    I think they have done a pretty good job so far on backgrounds and CG visuals.   I could nitpick abit here and there,  but I keep repeating this is not an Anime.

 

 

[505thAirborne]

I finally had a chance to watch this and finished it last night, I planned on writing a super long post yet decided to leave at this, a ton of potential wasted, many mistakes made by the production & writing team. I'm a John Cho fan so I enjoyed his performance as well as Mustafa Shakir, they did a great job with what they had to work with, sets & effects were nicely done so all of that gets a thumbs up for me IMO. 

As for everything else, Vicious, Faye, Julia were not very good or true to the Anime (I figured they'd make some minor changes but damn!).

And then HOLY F--CKING $H-T there's Ed... the amount of cringe, shock & horror I had on my face with what's supposed to be Ed was the final nail in the coffin for this show. 

A week ago I was bummed to hear this series got cancelled but now I see why.

 

[Bolt]

Still bummed. Lesser remakes have gotten a second. Ohzee wellzee..

[pengbuzz]

25 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Still bummed. Lesser remakes have gotten a second. Ohzee wellzee..

I think it would be funny to animate a 5-minute segment where the Anime Jet, Spike and Faye are watching the Netflix version, and their reactions.

 

As for "Ed"...er...yeah. Gonna go find some eyebleach now...

Edited January 6, 2022 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

59 minutes ago, Stampeed Valkyrie said:

So I figured I gave this enough time to cool down a little bit and give it a watch.   I got to the 3rd episode and I have hit a wall,  I do eventually plan on moving forward but at this stage I think I have seen enough to see the point of some the more critical viewpoints.   

It seems to be a pretty common reaction among those who saw the TV anime first... having to force themselves to watch.

 

59 minutes ago, Stampeed Valkyrie said:

1.) The first time I saw Vicious I literally laughed out loud. 

It really a masterpiece of cringe comedy.  Poor Alex Hassell's out there trying SO hard to be an edgy villain, but amidst everyone else's campy B-movie delivery it comes off like he's a cosplayer who wandered onto the set.

 

59 minutes ago, Stampeed Valkyrie said:

2.) Faye is not Faye..  honestly with how much they have tried to mirror things it very much seems like the director or actress does not understand the character or needs better direction on how to play her.

In the show's defense, Faye was a no-win scenario.  

The showrunners could either be flayed alive for anime Faye's sexualization and down-on-her-luck bad girl behavior early on that set up her development later or jettison it to make her a more socially-acceptable Strong Female Protagonist™ at the expense of most of her original characterization.