Valkyrie´s concept

[Aegis!]

Why the heck are they limited to human features ?

I´ve wondered this a lot lately , I mean they´re machines not persons , why couldn´t they have optical sensors on the back of their head units or use two gunpods ala YF-21 instead of using just one as if they were right handed ?

The only redeeming feature is the head laser or the wrist lasers on the YF-21 , other than that most of the valkyries featured in Macross are too damn close to the human structure that their potential is limited too much.

[JELEINEN]

Don't think about it too much. We're talking about giant robots here. The concept itself is unrealistic.

[nathan]

Because the humanoid form is the most usable. Can you imagine the VF-1 turning into a four legged combat robot?

[Graham]

It's not only the YF-21/VF-22 that has wrist lasers (actually it has wrist & elbow lasers). Several other VFs also have inbuilt beam weaponry. Some that spring to mind are: -

• VF-17D/S - wrist/elbow and chest lasers.
  
• VF-4 - forearm lasers.
  
• Some variants of the VA-3 - palm lasers.
  
• YF-19/VF-19 - wing root lasers.
  

And some VFs do have sensors on the back of the head. the VF-17 and YF-21 are two that spring to mind.

4 legged mecha would actually be quite practical (greater stability than 2 legs) for ground combat as shown by some of the mecha featured in the various Patlabor animes. Even Macross Zero features a 4 legged mecha in the land mode of the new amphibious Anti-UN mecha shown in episode # 3.

Graham

[Gabriel]

Actually, the anthropomorphic shape is ideal for a human-driven machine because it so closely mirrors our own bodies, though the control system used in most anime robots isn't intuitive enough to make this really practical.

As far as optics in the backs of their heads, the utility of having this feature would be offset by the cost and extra space needed for having to double up the sensors and cockpit displays, plus it would add even more complexity to the vehicle's operation since the pilot would have to keep track of both sets of camera input and make sure he doesn't get them confused. With radar and all the other sensors the VF has available, having eyes in the back of your head wouldn't really add that much to the mix.

The two gun deal is about the same as the optics. Two guns = more weight, more cost, more complex targeting system requirements, and against what the Valkyrie is designed to fight, overkill. You can only destroy a target once.

Yeah, and plus its not real.

[nathan]

Yes a four legged mech is a more satable fireing platform but it isnt as manueverable. Hand to hand combat is also very limited.

Patlabor shows how more than one camera is usefull. If something is out of the range of one camera the pilot switches to another.

[justvinnie]

Are you ambidextrous? Most people aren't. Now imagine how much more useful a 4 armed Valkyrie battroid would be. Not much I would venture over a 2 armed one...

vinnie

[Raptor]

I wouldn't say having micromissle pods mounted in the legs or pin-point barriers are really human-like limitations...

[Neova]

If you watch Macross Plus, you can see most of the full detailed cockpits and note how the monitoring system wraps around the pilot so he can see front, top, bottom and sides. Having eyes in the back would have the pilot turning around to see what was behind him.

As most have said the multitude of radar and threat sensors to warn you of proximity and imminent danger with that full screen hud is overwhelming enough.

[Aegis!]

Because the humanoid form is the most usable. Can you imagine the VF-1 turning into a four legged combat robot?

Who said anything about 4 four legged mode or that that the human form wasn´t suitable ? I said WHY limit variable fighter to human limitations for example:

Why VF can´t turn their arms backwards and use their gunpods in conjunction with their head lasers ?

The only VF that came closely to do something like this was the SV-51 in gerwalk mode in M0 EP2.

or Why can´t valkyries extend their arms further to reach things far away ?

All the functional joins in a valkyrie seem a little limited , they could´ve added a lot more.

Are you ambidextrous? Most people aren't. Now imagine how much more useful a 4 armed Valkyrie battroid would be. Not much I would venture over a 2 armed one...

Actually I am , that´s mainly why I pointed that out , why do valkyries always have to carry the gunpod on their right hand ? I mean they´re freaking machines , they can be proggramed to be ambidextrous and why only 1 gunpod ?

If you look at all the human form and its limitatios and the possibilites of improving them when designing a valkyrie you do wonder why they copy the human form with all its flaws instead of improving them.

I recall reading the VF-5000 had missile bays in its foreams as well , that´s quite interesting.

Edited January 16, 2004 by Aegis!

[shensei_ind._cadman]

not all mechs in Macross are in the human form....

[KingNor]

i think your asking a bit much. for one thing, who said the gun pod can't be used by either hand? maybe none of the mac characters happen to be left handed.

two gun pods? well, it looks more realistic to have just one. remember this isn't real military, valk design is half "realizm" and half "cool looking"

if we are taking this as a solely realistic approace to the vehicle, its ALREADY a jet that turns into a human shaped robot. IF this were a real vehicle, there are hundreds or thousands of limitations to take into account.

machineguns are heavy, i'm sure lazers and the powerplant to run them are heavy too, you can't simply bristle something with guns and just expect it to work as good, same with extendable arms, you need all that extra material in the arm to make such a thing possible, more weight.

as for non-human like reactions of the arms and legs, i already can't imagine running a machine that works just like a human, i REALLY don't know how to control something like the backwards bend of an elbow. i would assume limitations like these are simply pilot limitations, remember the knee CAN bend backwards, but really how useful would that be? i can't think of a paticularly great reason.

now...

if you wanted to get into the fact that it would have LOOKED cooler to have a bunch of extreem abilitys in the valks, perhaps the creators wanted to go as realistic as posible.

macross is one of the only giant mech shows that gives a good reason for giant robots, the need for hand to hand combat with giant invaders. its not like gundam where for no apparent reason people desided to build big robots, as opposed to lower profile and much simpler tanks.

sure it would have looked kinda neat to see guns busting out of hidden pannels and missles comeing out of everywhere, while the thing uses extendo arms to grab enemys and stuff, but it also would have seemed very childish and over indulgent, and macross goes for the older viewer.

limitations are what make things intresting... take evangelion for example: bots have very limited powersourse, it offsets their amazing fighting ability and gives the story some edge. the valks too, they have amazing transformation and physical abilitys, they can go anywhere they want and engage in hand to hand combat, their lack of heavy firepower makes them more vunerable and much more intresting.

whew...

[Vostok 7]

Also remember that the Valkyries were designed in anticipation of a alien threat that the humans knew would be giant humanoids. The valkyries (and the destroids) were supposed to bring humans to "on par" with the giant humanoids.

Besides, why are most mecha humanoid?

Mecha like Gundams, Valkyries and the like are supposed to be extentions of the human body, so as such, they are designed with the same limitations.

Vostok 7

[Mechamaniac]

Don't think about it too much. We're talking about giant robots here. The concept itself is unrealistic.

Not at all. There are already various mech type robots, and piloted machines being produced today. It's just that the military has yet to produce any that we know of.

Can you imagine a small scale robot that packs as much power as an infantry platoon, and is able to outmaneuver, and defeat a tank? - Gasaraki/Starship Troopers (the REAL Starship Troopers, not that godawful movie)

Can you imagine a society where limitations of available land mass causes population problems requiring the extension of land masses, or the construction of much larger buildings at an increased rate? - Patlabor.

Give it 30 - 50 years. But I bet that most of us will see small scale (15- 25 foot) humanoid robots in use by both the construction industry, and the military within our lifetimes. The control systems will be nothing like we see in anime, the whole footpedal / dual joystick thing is too impractical. They will probably be using a brainbox system by then, that's the only way it could adequately approximate human movement.

Its not like gundam where for no apparent reason people desided to build big robots, as opposed to lower profile and much simpler tanks.

I strongly doubt that we will never see anything like a Gundam, they are just too big to be practical, and there is no basis ever given for them. They just are, and because they are, the whole universe revolves around factions building other giant robots to counter the original giant robot. It's the chicken and the egg question all over again. As much as I love Gundam, it doesn't make sense at all.

[KingNor]

maybe something like the powerloader in aliens?

i can't see a benifit of that as opposed to a forklift, but if they WERE gonna do it, it would probably be something like that.

[imode]

Don't think about it too much. We're talking about giant robots here. The concept itself is unrealistic.

Precisely. I'm sure Kawamori tries to plan for these things as much as possible (anime in particular always fall hard under the fanboy microscope), but you have to remember, this is entertainment and in a rule which applies heavily to large robot anime, things are designed for cool factor rather than practicality. Such is the case in Zero, you want to show two guys slugging it out while flying through a narrow canyon. There's no room for them to fight face to face, so you make one guys arm spin backwards and fire away. In Plus, they're slugging it out face to face in the sky and on the ground. It would be kind of boring to have just one guy flying forward while shooting backwards all the time.

That being said, the VF's themselves are only limited to what the creator wants them to do. I'm sure if Kawamori wanted the 19's arms to spin completely around and fire backwards, it could.

[Angel's Fury]

Don't think about it too much.  We're talking about giant robots here.  The concept itself is unrealistic.

Precisely. I'm sure Kawamori tries to plan for these things as much as possible (anime in particular always fall hard under the fanboy microscope), but you have to remember, this is entertainment and in a rule which applies heavily to large robot anime, things are designed for cool factor rather than practicality. Such is the case in Zero, you want to show two guys slugging it out while flying through a narrow canyon. There's no room for them to fight face to face, so you make one guys arm spin backwards and fire away. In Plus, they're slugging it out face to face in the sky and on the ground. It would be kind of boring to have just one guy flying forward while shooting backwards all the time.

That being said, the VF's themselves are only limited to what the creator wants them to do. I'm sure if Kawamori wanted the 19's arms to spin completely around and fire backwards, it could.

That makes it fun & enjoyable to watch.

Besides, like Jeleinen said,"the concept itself is unrealistic".

In reality, a robot's intelligence is comparable to a cockroach's.

By the time technology advances, still it would be as smart as a 2 year old.

[Mechamaniac]

Besides, like Jeleinen said,"the concept itself is unrealistic".

In reality, a robot's intelligence is comparable to a cockroach's.

By the time technology advances, still it would be as smart as a 2 year old.

Yeah, but remember, we're not really talking about ROBOTS here. By definition, Robots are machines that move independently, and are designed to perform tasks a human cannot do, or does not want to do. Like spraying paint on cars in a factory. Contemporary robots are designed to perform repetitive tasks that require the same precise motion over and over.

What we really are talking about here are powered suits. For the most part, the mechs in Anime don't move by themselves. Suits driven by a human, that approximate the movement of the human in order to perform tasks the human cannot do.

So, intelligence really doesn't come into play. Unless you're talking about the boy band members of Wing, who kept talking to their Gundams as if they were somehow sentient, but mute.

Yes, they would have to have some advanced software, but as far as intelligence, not really.

Edited January 16, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[Angel's Fury]

Besides, like Jeleinen said,"the concept itself is unrealistic".

In reality, a robot's intelligence is comparable to a cockroach's.

By the time technology advances, still it would be as smart as a 2 year old.

Yeah, but remember, we're not really talking about ROBOTS here. By definition, Robots are machines that move independently, and are designed to perform tasks a human cannot do, or does not want to do. Like spraying paint on cars in a factory. Contemporary robots are designed to perform repetitive tasks that require the same precise motion over and over.

What we really are talking about here are powered suits. Suits driven by a human, that approximate the movement of the human in order to perform tasks the human cannot do.

So, intelligence really doesn't come into play. Unless you're talking about the boy band members of Wing, who kept talking to their Gundams as if they were somehow sentient, but mute.

Forget those band members of Wing! Okay, intelligence doesn't come into play, but in order for a powered

suit to work, won't it need a highly sophisticated program or something that'll serve as a nerve center?

[Mechamaniac]

Forget those band members of Wing! Okay, intelligence doesn't come into play, but in order for a powered

suit to work, won't it need a highly sophisticated program or something that'll serve as a nerve center?

See my edited post above .

Yeah, you would need some sophisticated operating system, and god knows the thing would have to be rife with sensors, and guidance systems to match a contemporary fighter aircraft. But the only way they would bring AI into it would be if they designed a system that would learn from the pilot's repetitive action, and therefore anticipate it, increasing reaction time. But when you are not in it, it is as inanimate as a rock. Therein lies the difference. Without the pilot, the powered suit is useless, whereas a robot (taken as a whole with it's contolling computer) can perform without human intervention.

Edited January 16, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[Angel's Fury]

Forget those band members of Wing! Okay, intelligence doesn't come into play, but in order for a powered

suit to work, won't it need a highly sophisticated program or something that'll serve as a nerve center?

See my edited post above .

Yeah, you would need some sophisticated operating system, and god knows the thing would have to be rife with sensors, and guidance systems to match a contemporary fighter aircraft. But the only way they would bring AI into it would be if they designed a system that would learn from the pilot's repetitive action, and therefore anticipate it, increasing reaction time. But when you are not in it, it is as inanimate as a rock. Therein lies the difference. Without the pilot, the powered suit is useless, whereas a robot (taken as a whole with it's contolling computer) can perform without human intervention.

Thanks.

Highly imposible with today's technology.

[ewilen]

I think the Valks are somewhere in between powered suits and robots. In a powered suit you have a direct brain interface or a "movement amplification" system so that the pilot simply moves his body (or thinks he's moving his body) and the suit copies the motions. That's not how Valks work, with the possible exception of the YF-21.

Instead, humans control Valks more or less the way you control a character in a video game like Halo, Oni, Tomb Raider, etc. You tell the Valk what you want it to do in somewhat general terms, and the (highly sophisiticated) control system interprets that into specific movements. If you want to run up a hill, you don't have to tell the battroid to raise its knees higher or whatever--you just give the same "move forward" command that you'd use if you were running on level ground. This is somewhat similar to the computerized flight control systems on modern jet fighters.

But given that this is the case, I agree that the humanoid form of the Valk wouldn't be strictly necessary or desirable in the real world, even if transformation techology was practical and even if the enemy was a race of giant humanoids. We might or might not want to build giant mecha to fight them, but there'd be no need to limit the designs based on human limbs, etc. Even in the limited case of "ambidexterity", there'd be no reason you couldn't have the battroid fire two guns at a locked-on target (or in the direction indicated by a targetting pipper) with the squeeze of a single trigger on the control stick.

[Final Vegeta]

i think your asking a bit much.  for one thing,  who said the gun pod can't be used by either hand?  maybe none of the mac characters happen to be left handed.

In the final episodes of Macross 7 there were Valkyries with two guns.

machineguns are heavy, i'm sure lazers and the powerplant to run them are heavy too,  you can't simply bristle something with guns and just expect it to work as good,  same with extendable arms, you need all that extra material in the arm to make such a thing possible, more weight.

With the power of a Valkyrie, weight wouldn't be that much trouble (unless it is a VF-0).

I'll take it just as a stylistic choice, like the one that dictated that Valkyries shouldn't use that much their energy weapons.

as for non-human like reactions of the arms and legs,  i already can't imagine running a machine that works just like a human,  i REALLY don't know how to control something like the backwards bend of an elbow.

Other than that, I think it is useful having armor to protect the joint on one side.

if you wanted to get into the fact that it would have LOOKED cooler to have a bunch of extreem abilitys in the valks, perhaps the creators wanted to go as realistic as posible.

As long as Kawamori is involved

Macross 7 for istance had glowing sensors, lack of fuses and a too high missiles endurance. These have never been Kawamori staples, clearly.

macross is one of the only giant mech shows that gives a good reason for giant robots, the need for hand to hand combat with giant invaders.  its not like gundam where for no apparent reason people desided to build big robots, as opposed to lower profile and much simpler tanks.

I like Escaflowne for that thing. For a technologically limited world without fire powder, a human shaped mecha with that kind of control sets seems the best option.

limitations are what make things intresting... take evangelion for example:  bots have very limited powersourse,  it offsets their amazing fighting ability and gives the story some edge.

I agree with what you say about limitations, but I didn't like evangelions because the limitations were kinda faked... when eva-01 exhausted its battery, either it had already won the battle or it went berserker.

the valks too, they have amazing transformation and physical abilitys, they can go anywhere they want and engage in hand to hand combat,  their lack of heavy firepower makes them more vunerable and much more intresting.

What makes valks (and whatever mecha) interesting in my mind is that they need to avoid being hit. This really give an edge to piloting skills. It's not like they lacked heavy firepower, they simply have realistic armor. Macross' use of missiles is like a sword fight, where the most experienced pilot wins, not like in a gun fight where there could be a lucky hit.

FV

[JB0]

Actually, the anthropomorphic shape is ideal for a human-driven machine because it so closely mirrors our own bodies, though the control system used in most anime robots isn't intuitive enough to make this really practical.

Doesn't really matter in most cases.

The computer system's doing a LOT of interpolation between what you input and what it does regardless of the control system.

Even in the YF-21, likely.

...

Though the need for interpolation in the YF-21 may be somewhat overstated. Latest issue of Popular Science did an article on experiments in Duke University with a robot arm, a monkey, and a handful of electrodes shoved in it's brain.

Among the interesting tidbits in it: A monkey with a robot arm attached through electrodes in the brain starts setting up regions devoted exclusively to operating this new arm very rapidly once they start using it. The exact speed quoted is "in a matter of minutes." Obviously, we aren't monkeys, but there's profound implications there. If it happens in monkeys, a similar process likely happens in humans.

There's also mention of the current prospects for non-invasive systems of adequate resolution to do the same thing as implanted electrodes.

Given Guld had been flying the YF-21 for many months, plus who knows how much simulator time on the ground, the plane likely really WAS as much an extension of his body as the brief intro sequence with him flexing his hands and the wings adjusting and so on showed.

He likely had whole regions of the brain devoted to controlling flaps, throttles, and thrust vectoring; interpreting air speed, radar, GPS feeds; transforming, firing lasers, tuning the radio to his favorite station ... everything in the vehicle.

[ewilen]

I agree, JB0. On the other hand, I wonder how different this is from learning to ride a bike, play a guitar, or fight/maneuver in a game like Oni or Halo. At first you have to think in terms of physically manipulating inputs; later it becomes second nature. Playing a chord on a guitar ceases to be a matter of "put this finger here, that one there, etc." and turns into "play a G minor" without thinking about it.

[JB0]

I agree, JB0. On the other hand, I wonder how different this is from learning to ride a bike, play a guitar, or fight/maneuver in a game like Oni or Halo. At first you have to think in terms of physically manipulating inputs; later it becomes second nature. Playing a chord on a guitar ceases to be a matter of "put this finger here, that one there, etc." and turns into "play a G minor" without thinking about it.

Indeed.

The big diffrence is that those other examples are still all just unique uses of your current appendages.

This is diffrent, because the brain's adding controls for new "body parts" instead of finding new users for old appendages, or even just their control centers. That's what really makes this fascinating.

Whereas with a normal fighter, you're relying on what the HUDs and CRTs(LCDs, holo-emitters, whatever) say about your sensors, using your appendages to manipulate the controls, and speaking into a mike to talk. You may be good at it. You might be the best person in the universe at tracking multiple CRTs while keeping an eye on the actual sky in front of you and manipulating a joystick, foot pedals, switches, and sliders, but you're still using your natural human appednages, which places ristrictions on you(2 hands, 2 feet, and 2 eyes only go so far)

With the YF-21, Guld is seeing directly through the sensors, controlling the controls as new appendages, and "thought-bubble" talking through the radio.

Hypothetically, he could have a Nintendo hooked up to the cockpit display panels and use his eyes, ears, and hands to play a game of Super Mario while he flew the plane into combat with his new senses and appendages. And even yell about the game cheating while simultaneously "talking" to his wingmates on the radio.

...

Not that that's possible in practice, since A. the cockpit screens don't have TV tuners or composite video ports, B. the BCS requires a signifigant degree of concentration to operate, and C. you really don't need to be worrying about goombas and koopa troopas while people are trying to kill you

But HYPOTHETICALLY he could.

[nathan]

Who said anything about 4 four legged mode or that that the human form wasn´t suitable ? I said WHY limit variable fighter to human limitations for example:

I didn't say it had to have a four legged mode. It was an example. And can you think of a machine that doesn't have limitations? No machine can do everything.

Why VF can´t turn their arms backwards and use their gunpods in conjunction with their head lasers ?

Probably because the linkages won't allow it. And probably because the gun pod would blow the laser off the head of the VF-1A and by the time the pilot worked up to a VF-1J or 1S he's so used to not firing them together he doesn't do it. Note that's in fighter mode. Thay are used together in battloid mode.

The only VF that came closely to do something like this was the SV-51 in gerwalk mode in M0 EP2.

It has a different design. Different designs get you different results.

or Why can´t valkyries extend their arms further to reach things far away ?

Just how would the do that? Rocket punch with wind up hands or the never ending excendable arms they can reach for ever? It's not realistic. They do have three small retractable hands though they are limited.

All the functional joins in a valkyrie seem a little limited , they could´ve added a lot more.

That's because technology is limited. And how would you of added more to them? Extra arms? 2 elbow or knee joints per arm or leg?

Actually I am , that´s mainly why I pointed that out , why do valkyries always have to carry the gunpod on their right hand ? I mean they´re freaking machines , they can be proggramed to be ambidextrous and why only 1 gunpod ?

The hard point is on the right arm that's why, though the pilot can use the gun pod with it's left had. And the machine can only do what it's told. It's not a droid that can think for itself like R2-D2. If the pilot is ambidextrous the VF is too. If the pilot isn't the VF isnt. Where would you store the other gun pod? The M2 valks have a storage bay in the leg armor for a second gun pod but where would you store it on the VF-1?

If you look at all the human form and its limitatios and the possibilites of improving them when designing a valkyrie you do wonder why they copy the human form with all its flaws instead of improving them.

Again how would you improve on it?

As for adding more and more weaponry you do have to worry about the weight. If it's too heavy the valk wont fly. Also the more you add to it the bigger the valk has to be. It's not like gundam where you can have 20 Partical cannons just around the cockpit alone.

[JB0]

If the pilot is ambidextrous the VF is too. If the pilot isn't the VF isnt.

The pilot has no direct control over the gunpod as far as I can tell.

Pilot handedness has no bearing on mech handedness.

[Mechamaniac]

If the pilot is ambidextrous the VF is too. If the pilot isn't the VF isnt.

The pilot has no direct control over the gunpod as far as I can tell.

Pilot handedness has no bearing on mech handedness.

Right, that's what I was going to point out.

Let's say that all mechs had that godawful G-Gundam style of control system. (which believe it or not, makes more sense than the footpedal joystick thing).

If the lefty pilot is in the cockpit, pretending to aim and shoot with his left hand, then the machine will emulate that using it's firing arm, which just happens to be the right arm.

Like JBO and I have pointed out, the Valkyrie is not a living being, it has no ego to bruise, it does not feel pity or remorse or fear.... oh wait, I got off on a tangent or two .

The Valkyrie is a powered suit, nothing more. It is a humanoid machine with a control system that is designed to interpret the pilot's control inputs and thoughts to some degree, and then emulate them based on it's construction.

So, as JBO said, the pilot could be a righty, a lefty, or both, he could shoot with his toes for all that it would matter. The machine would react based on it's programming, and mechanical limitations.

[KingNor]

In the final episodes of Macross 7 there were Valkyries with two guns.

ewwwwww mac 7

With the power of a Valkyrie, weight wouldn't be that much trouble (unless it is a VF-0).

well considering the valk needs boosters to reach space and mac-engineers decided it needed FASTpacks, i'm going to say weight was ALREADY a problem. end of discussion.

Other than that, I think it is useful having armor to protect the joint on one side.

not really sure what you're getting at.

It's not like they lacked heavy firepower, they simply have realistic armor. Macross' use of missiles is like a sword fight, where the most experienced pilot wins, not like in a gun fight where there could be a lucky hit.

well... for one, the gunpod has something like 300 rounds if i'm not mistaken, and that is limited no mater what its fireing, the head lazer has never once in the show proven to be really all that powerful, and as for war being about skill..

really war has usually been broken down like this: superior numbers, superior technology, superior tactics, superior moral, and finally, superiority of individual soldiers. anyone of those can make or break an army/navy/airforce, if war is anything, its random. do you think most veteran soldiers really are that much more skilled than the rookies getting killed? or were they just always lucky enough to be the guy NEXT to the guy who got it.

Edited January 17, 2004 by KingNor

[Final Vegeta]

well considering the valk needs boosters to reach space and mac-engineers decided it needed FASTpacks, i'm going to say weight was ALREADY  a problem.  end of discussion.

They use FAST Packs because of fuel, not because they couldn't reach space on their own. You only need to reach a certain speed to go into space, and Valkyries are faster than real world planes that could do that.

About weight, you need to recheck Compendium:

VF-1

Mass empty: 13250 kg

Max T-O mass: 37000 kg

There's plenty of weight you can load on a Valkyrie.

Now that I think, you can't reload a gunpod with both hands employed. But this is somewhat stretching.

well...  for one, the gunpod has something like 300 rounds if i'm not mistaken, and that is limited no mater what its fireing,  the head lazer has never once in the show proven to be really all that powerful, 

200 rounds for the VF-1, IIRC. In the second episode Roy destroyed a Regult with his lasers, it was a quotation of Gundam.

and as for war being about skill..

I've never said anything like that.

really war has usually been broken down like this:  superior numbers, superior technology, superior tactics, superior moral, and finally, superiority of individual soldiers.  anyone of those can make or break an army/navy/airforce, if war is anything, its random.  do you think most veteran soldiers really are that much more skilled than the rookies getting killed? or were they just always lucky enough to be the guy NEXT to the guy who got it.

You are right, that's why I think war movies suck. I am saying that, as a movie story, a character getting killed by a deus ex machina stormtrooper is pretty lame.

I wish movies have something reality not always has: a sense. If I wanted reality of war, I would have become a soldier.

FV

[KingNor]

I wish movies have something reality not always has: a sense. If I wanted reality of war, I would have become a soldier.

FV

eh.. good point.

as for the fast packs though. the valk runs on nuclear power right? so what do you mean about needing fastpacks because of fuel?

[justvinnie]

I wish movies have something reality not always has: a sense. If I wanted reality of war, I would have become a soldier.

FV

eh.. good point.

as for the fast packs though. the valk runs on nuclear power right? so what do you mean about needing fastpacks because of fuel?

Nuclear subs cannot fly in space.

vinnie

[Lightning]

I say GERWALK mode will take a lot more....um....how to say it.....programming and learning to figure out to get it to work right. (yea, that's it!) anybody agree? or do you guys think that the Battroid will take more stuff to do?

[mbs357]

About the left hand/right hand thing.

In episode 18, Pineapple Salad, it's clearly visible that after Max smashes through some buildings in pursuit of Millia that he has been carrying his gunpod in his left hand, he then switches to the right and fires.