The Mandalorian - Star Wars webseries from Jon Favreau

[MKT]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:33 PM, Mog said:

OR it’s the payoff to Grogu making that galactic Force call right before he got captured.

Some Jedi probably heard the call, but we didn’t think they would go with Luke Freakin’ Skywalker.

Mando’s team had already performed a successful surgical strike on Gideon’s ship.  Mando had already had his hero moment disarming Gideon.  Hell, he even flushed all those Darktroopers off the ship.

Despite all those successes, they’re stuck facing an unstoppable force that’s pounding at the door.

Again, it was the hero moment we’ve all been longing to see ever since the sequel trilogy was announced.  To finally see Luke being that fully realized Jedi was a long awaited moment.

100% agree.
Whether Luke appearing to save Mando was a cheap moment or not, if a scene evokes pure awesomeness & joy, it would have done its job entertaining. Not many shows can do that these days. I'm randomly thinking, and one other scene that evokes the same feeling but perhaps not as close, is when Batman re-appears in the tunnel for the first time in The Dark Knight Rises. What's extraordinary about that Luke scene was that there was almost no accompanying rousing musical score to do it. 

[TangledThorns]

Re-watching The Mandalorian series with my almost 6 year old son. He has no interest in any of the STAR WARS films and is only watching this series because of "Baby Yoda." That's all I have to say, lol.

[Thom]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm not sure we really needed to see Luke tear through a collection of battle droids to establish his Jedi street cred.

Vader, on the other hand... after the prequel trilogy, that poor guy needed a moment of being genuinely scary to remind audiences WHY he was feared.

 

Given that Disney is following the old EU down the "Luke wasn't really the last of the Jedi c.Return of the Jedi" slippery slope... it almost feels like a trick question.

 

Jar-Jar Binks isn't in this one, though!  (Kidding!)

I think it showed how much he had grown since RoTJ. And it was certainly better to be battle droids rather than people. Also, just an awesome scene!

And one can only hope they are going more EU rather than TFA! That's a trilogy that needs to be rewritten! And they can do EU stories, just get Sebastian Stan for Luke, Chris Pratt for Han and Billie Lourd for Leia! 

We don't speak of Jar Jar...

[Big s]

32 minutes ago, Thom said:

I think it showed how much he had grown since RoTJ. And it was certainly better to be battle droids rather than people. Also, just an awesome scene!

And one can only hope they are going more EU rather than TFA! That's a trilogy that needs to be rewritten! And they can do EU stories, just get Sebastian Stan for Luke, Chris Pratt for Han and Billie Lourd for Leia! 

We don't speak of Jar Jar...

You mean senator Jar Jar

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Thom said:

I think it showed how much he had grown since RoTJ. And it was certainly better to be battle droids rather than people. Also, just an awesome scene!

Messily and violently dismembering a bunch of battle droids in a Darth Vader-esque rampage might make for an impressive action scene, but is that really "growth" for a Jedi?  I mean, aren't they supposed to be calm and in control?

Really, I think I hit on it earlier... this scene is never gonna work for me because, as a casual, I'm not that invested in Luke Skywalker.  (Well, that and I stand by what I said over on the Andor topic about how IMO the Jedi are the least interesting part of Star Wars because they're just puppets of fate marching toward a preordained destiny.)

 

3 hours ago, Thom said:

And one can only hope they are going more EU rather than TFA! That's a trilogy that needs to be rewritten! And they can do EU stories, just get Sebastian Stan for Luke, Chris Pratt for Han and Billie Lourd for Leia!

Even with my very limited experience with the Star Wars expanded universe, that sounds like a very bad idea to me.

The sequel trilogy isn't great cinema, but then neither was the prequel trilogy, and I'd take either over the EU-style bad fanfic nonsense of Solo: a Star Wars Story.

And Solo: a Star Wars Story, The Book of Boba Fett, and The Last Jedi are the best argument anyone could hope for in terms of reasons to leave the original trilogy characters well enough alone.  Boba Fett's involvement in The Mandalorian works mainly because he's a flat character in the movies and had no prior character development to derail.

 

3 hours ago, Thom said:

We don't speak of Jar Jar...

The respected (acting) Senator for Naboo, Jar-Jar Binks?  I wonder how long it'll be before they're digging deep enough in the nostalgia mines to unearth him again.

[Bolt]

16 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Messily and violently dismembering a bunch of battle droids in a Darth Vader-esque rampage might make for an impressive action scene, but is that really "growth" for a Jedi?  I mean, aren't they supposed to be calm and in control?

Luke looked quite calm and in control the whole time. 

 

19 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Really, I think I hit on it earlier... this scene is never gonna work for me because, as a casual, I'm not that invested in Luke Skywalker.  (Well, that and I stand by what I said over on the Andor topic about how IMO the Jedi are the least interesting part of Star Wars because they're just puppets of fate marching toward a preordained destiny.)

Casual viewers may not get it. But all hard core fans loved it. It's like that. And your view of the Jedi sounds like it's based on the prequels, which in fact was why they were brought down. Clearly the Jedi had not evolved. But they had endured for thousands of years. Not solely as the model we see in the prequels. What we see in the prequels was the Jedi being arrogant, unimaginative and uptight. Hence the huge let down we see in the newer Disney trilogy. 

 

30 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Even with my very limited experience with the Star Wars expanded universe, that sounds like a very bad idea to me.

The sequel trilogy isn't great cinema, but then neither was the prequel trilogy, and I'd take either over the EU-style bad fanfic nonsense of Solo: a Star Wars Story.

I would much prefer the EU over TFA. It's not a bad idea at all. And , having read much of the EU, I wouldn't lump Solo: a Star Wars Story into that at all. That movie had its own issues that don't have anything to do with the EU. 
 

There are some gripes i have about The Mandalorian, but overall, it's a solid series that I've very much enjoyed ( unlike Obi-wan and The Book Of Boba..) and I'm looking forward to more. 

[Thom]

40 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Messily and violently dismembering a bunch of battle droids in a Darth Vader-esque rampage might make for an impressive action scene, but is that really "growth" for a Jedi?  I mean, aren't they supposed to be calm and in control?

Really, I think I hit on it earlier... this scene is never gonna work for me because, as a casual, I'm not that invested in Luke Skywalker.  (Well, that and I stand by what I said over on the Andor topic about how IMO the Jedi are the least interesting part of Star Wars because they're just puppets of fate marching toward a preordained destiny.)

 

Even with my very limited experience with the Star Wars expanded universe, that sounds like a very bad idea to me.

The sequel trilogy isn't great cinema, but then neither was the prequel trilogy, and I'd take either over the EU-style bad fanfic nonsense of Solo: a Star Wars Story.

And Solo: a Star Wars Story, The Book of Boba Fett, and The Last Jedi are the best argument anyone could hope for in terms of reasons to leave the original trilogy characters well enough alone.  Boba Fett's involvement in The Mandalorian works mainly because he's a flat character in the movies and had no prior character development to derail.

 

The respected (acting) Senator for Naboo, Jar-Jar Binks?  I wonder how long it'll be before they're digging deep enough in the nostalgia mines to unearth him again.

Part of it that it was Luke Skywalker! I wont argue that point as it is quite valid. And, agreeing with @Bolt, Luke clearly came across as not just powerful but in control and precise. He had that Jedi Calm about him. For the EU, there were a lot of good stories in there, some good and some bad. What you have to do is pick the 'good ones,' though what that is is subjective to different people. TFA was a good start, IMO, but it was then fumbled going the wrong way down the field and it was spiked into its own goal. I would be in favor of ignoring the whole thing and starting fresh in the post RoTJ era where Mando and Ashoka reside. 

[azrael]

47 minutes ago, Thom said:

 I would be in favor of ignoring the whole thing and starting fresh in the post RoTJ era where Mando and Ashoka reside. 

Unfortunately, the Empress will not let others kill her baby she was supposed to care for. I would like nothing more than to take an eraser to the sequels and wipe them away. But the Empress refuses. 

[Mog]

Head-canon-ing is fun! 😉

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

And your view of the Jedi sounds like it's based on the prequels, which in fact was why they were brought down. Clearly the Jedi had not evolved. But they had endured for thousands of years. Not solely as the model we see in the prequels. What we see in the prequels was the Jedi being arrogant, unimaginative and uptight. Hence the huge let down we see in the newer Disney trilogy. 

Not s'much, no... the reason I find the Jedi so boring is present in the original, prequel, and sequel trilogies.  Namely, their preoccupation with destiny.

The adventures of regular joes like Din Djarin and Cassian Andor and even Han Solo as they make their own way in the galaxy are a lot more fun and interesting to me than any of what the Jedi get up to.  The stakes are generally lower, which means the characters can screw up and learn without it being The End of The World as We Know It, but also there's none of that noise about how such-and-such an outcome is their Destiny.  It's no fun to watch a character march in lockstep towards a fate that's preordained in-story because it robs the character of all their agency.  They might have a little leeway in how they get from Point A to Point B, but going off the rails is Not An Option for them. 

The Jedi also all suffer from a real bad case of Main Character Syndrome, but that's a correctable writing issue whereas the Force steering its users towards an ultimate confrontation is more a thematic one.

It doesn't help that the force-wielding side of Star Wars exists as moral absolutes... you can either be a Saint or Eat Babies, no middle ground.  The normal people of the galaxy who aren't being railroaded by the Force get to have shades of gray, and that makes the much more believable and interesting characters who can go on much more complex and compelling stories with themes beyond simply "Good vs Evil".

The Mandalorian's not the best example, but a pretty damned good one, of a story that can go to places the Jedi-centric stories can't.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The adventures of regular joes like Din Djarin and Cassian Andor and even Han Solo as they make their own way in the galaxy are a lot more fun and interesting to me than any of what the Jedi get up to.  The stakes are generally lower, which means the characters can screw up and learn without it being The End of The World as We Know It

When Andor screwed up it kinda was the end of a world. At least they accomplished the basic mission 

[Bolt]

Ya, I'm sure Scarif was every Imps dream assignment. At least until those pesky "Bothan spies" showed up..

[Big s]

10 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Ya, I'm sure Scarif was every Imps dream assignment. At least until those pesky "Bothan spies" showed up..

Not to sound racist, but those Bothans really know how to ruin a nice vacation spot

[Thom]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

...

It doesn't help that the force-wielding side of Star Wars exists as moral absolutes... you can either be a Saint or Eat Babies, no middle ground.  The normal people of the galaxy who aren't being railroaded by the Force get to have shades of gray, and that makes the much more believable and interesting characters who can go on much more complex and compelling stories with themes beyond simply "Good vs Evil".

....

Actually, that kind of fits into the aspect of the Force. There are Force-sensitive that, FWIK, are not subject to those absolutes. It appears that only when one can actually wield the Force and not just sense it that it really begins to effect the user right back. Do Good, and it amplifies the good within you. Do Bad, and it amplifies the bad, and that all depends on the user.

 

[Big s]

7 hours ago, Thom said:

Actually, that kind of fits into the aspect of the Force. There are Force-sensitive that, FWIK, are not subject to those absolutes. It appears that only when one can actually wield the Force and not just sense it that it really begins to effect the user right back. Do Good, and it amplifies the good within you. Do Bad, and it amplifies the bad, and that all depends on the user.

 

I don’t know about all that. Vader did a lot of bad stuff and he got rewarded by doing a little good and now gets to be an immortal force ghost. Not only that, but now he gets his good looks back as well

[Thom]

3 hours ago, Big s said:

I don’t know about all that. Vader did a lot of bad stuff and he got rewarded by doing a little good and now gets to be an immortal force ghost. Not only that, but now he gets his good looks back as well

I'm not talking about karma though. If there was any karma, he would be the Star Wars version of Jacob Marley for a thousand years. (And who was once played by Alec Guinness.) Obviously though, it would not mean that one was stuck on that path.

[Seto Kaiba]

OK, help me out here...

Based on the first two seasons of The Mandalorian, the Mandalorian people are supposedly widely reputed to be elite warriors of the highest caliber, right?  

And despite his profoundly uninspiring performance in the original trilogy, Boba Fett is supposed to have been one of the most elite and feared bounty hunters that the galaxy had, right?  He had enough street cred to be on Darth Vader's short list of bounty hunters in Empire Strikes Back and to be Jabba's favorite bounty hunter in Return of the Jedi.

If they have these reputations for elite badassery, why does seemingly nobody in The Mandalorian or The Book of Boba Fett take either Din Djarin or Boba Fett seriously?  It was odd enough in The Mandalorian that everyone from other bounty hunters to information brokers and random fishermen was willing to take a whack at Din Djarin despite the exposition's assertion that Mandalorians are feared and respected, but now that I know a bit more about the mythos The Book of Boba Fett might as well be be titled The Disrespect is Real.  It's weird that Boba Fett would suddenly pivot to wanting to be a crime boss and he sure as heck doesn't seem to know HOW to do crime boss things despite having been a member of Jabba's retinue as far back as A New Hope, but everyone from rival crime bosses to juvenile delinquents and random shop owners seems quite comfortable sassing, ignoring, and even actively provoking a guy who was a top bounty hunter known for his viciousness just a few years ago and his bloodthirsty assassin Girl Friday.

I'm struggling to reconcile the reputational claims the shows make vs. how the characters are actually treated.  Surely everyone in the galaxy can't have THAT much of a death wish, right?

[pengbuzz]

On 10/29/2023 at 2:26 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Not s'much, no... the reason I find the Jedi so boring is present in the original, prequel, and sequel trilogies.  Namely, their preoccupation with destiny.

The adventures of regular joes like Din Djarin and Cassian Andor and even Han Solo as they make their own way in the galaxy are a lot more fun and interesting to me than any of what the Jedi get up to.  The stakes are generally lower, which means the characters can screw up and learn without it being The End of The World as We Know It, but also there's none of that noise about how such-and-such an outcome is their Destiny.  It's no fun to watch a character march in lockstep towards a fate that's preordained in-story because it robs the character of all their agency.  They might have a little leeway in how they get from Point A to Point B, but going off the rails is Not An Option for them. 

The Jedi also all suffer from a real bad case of Main Character Syndrome, but that's a correctable writing issue whereas the Force steering its users towards an ultimate confrontation is more a thematic one.

It doesn't help that the force-wielding side of Star Wars exists as moral absolutes... you can either be a Saint or Eat Babies, no middle ground.  The normal people of the galaxy who aren't being railroaded by the Force get to have shades of gray, and that makes the much more believable and interesting characters who can go on much more complex and compelling stories with themes beyond simply "Good vs Evil".

The Mandalorian's not the best example, but a pretty damned good one, of a story that can go to places the Jedi-centric stories can't.

This is one reason I think the Force is misrepresented in much of the prequels and sequels., IMO. Canon notwithstanding (not sure how it stands on this, but not a fan of a definitive light and dark side), if life creates it and makes it grow, then the Force itself should not nave a good or evil bias, but simply just be. It would then be the agency of each Force user how the "Light Side" and "Dark Side" are presented, with the Force serving to amplify whatever is already within them. That would then leave the middle, which would allow people to neither have to be Michael the Archangel or Satan of the SW Galaxy.

Baylan Skol and Shin Hati would certainly have fit that; perhaps veering a bit closer to the Darkness, but not particularly Sith.

[pengbuzz]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

OK, help me out here...

Based on the first two seasons of The Mandalorian, the Mandalorian people are supposedly widely reputed to be elite warriors of the highest caliber, right?  

And despite his profoundly uninspiring performance in the original trilogy, Boba Fett is supposed to have been one of the most elite and feared bounty hunters that the galaxy had, right?  He had enough street cred to be on Darth Vader's short list of bounty hunters in Empire Strikes Back and to be Jabba's favorite bounty hunter in Return of the Jedi.

If they have these reputations for elite badassery, why does seemingly nobody in The Mandalorian or The Book of Boba Fett take either Din Djarin or Boba Fett seriously?  It was odd enough in The Mandalorian that everyone from other bounty hunters to information brokers and random fishermen was willing to take a whack at Din Djarin despite the exposition's assertion that Mandalorians are feared and respected, but now that I know a bit more about the mythos The Book of Boba Fett might as well be be titled The Disrespect is Real.  It's weird that Boba Fett would suddenly pivot to wanting to be a crime boss and he sure as heck doesn't seem to know HOW to do crime boss things despite having been a member of Jabba's retinue as far back as A New Hope, but everyone from rival crime bosses to juvenile delinquents and random shop owners seems quite comfortable sassing, ignoring, and even actively provoking a guy who was a top bounty hunter known for his viciousness just a few years ago and his bloodthirsty assassin Girl Friday.

I'm struggling to reconcile the reputational claims the shows make vs. how the characters are actually treated.  Surely everyone in the galaxy can't have THAT much of a death wish, right?

The only explanation: this "Boba Fett" is a half-@$$ed clone that was hastily done and left in the desert when they couldn't find the Sarlacc with the real one.

[electric indigo]

Mando constantly getting into trouble (even zapped by Jawas) and questioning his ways was part of the charm of the episodes I watched. Supersoldiers are so one-dimensional.

[Thom]

Even Top Dogs can be hounded by fools and wannabes. When someone has a 'reputation' there will be others gunning to take it for themselves. And even if a Mandalorian is on their own, others may take that as being alone and vulnerable and thinking there's an opportunity.

[Big s]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If they have these reputations for elite badassery, why does seemingly nobody in The Mandalorian or The Book of Boba Fett take either Din Djarin or Boba Fett seriously? 

 

16 minutes ago, Thom said:

Even Top Dogs can be hounded by fools and wannabes. When someone has a 'reputation' there will be others gunning to take it for themselves. And even if a Mandalorian is on their own, others may take that as being alone and vulnerable and thinking there's an opportunity.

Well I guess top dog could translate to real life. Nobody took Dog the bounty hunter seriously. He might be the only example I can come up with and I apologize for that, but there you go. A guy so bad ass that he was nothing but a joke. None of his bounties took him seriously and he caught quite a few, but even the actual public looks at the guy as a joke. Maybe that’s how people view the Mandalorians. As a bunch of goof balls with Wookiee scalps instead of mullets 

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Big s said:

 

Well I guess top dog could translate to real life. Nobody took Dog the bounty hunter seriously. He might be the only example I can come up with and I apologize for that, but there you go. A guy so bad ass that he was nothing but a joke. None of his bounties took him seriously and he caught quite a few, but even the actual public looks at the guy as a joke. Maybe that’s how people view the Mandalorians. As a bunch of goof balls with Wookiee scalps instead of mullets 

Trailer Park Mando? O.o

[Bolt]

Another factor, the Mandos were literally bombed off their planet (at least most were) and into caves on other worlds. Maybe the Galaxy, in general believes that the Mandalorians have lost their juice. Although, we know the Imperial remnant takes the very name seriously..

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

The only explanation: this "Boba Fett" is a half-@$$ed clone that was hastily done and left in the desert when they couldn't find the Sarlacc with the real one.

I could buy that, given how Fett is treated in The Book of Boba Fett.

 

1 hour ago, electric indigo said:

Mando constantly getting into trouble (even zapped by Jawas) and questioning his ways was part of the charm of the episodes I watched. Supersoldiers are so one-dimensional.

That's not even close to what was being talked about, though.

"Getting into trouble" is expected, Mando's a bounty hunter.  The problem is that The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett both write expositional checks the story can't cash.

Everywhere Din goes in The Mandalorian, he's preceded by the Mandalorian reputation for stone cold badassery.  He's actively trading on it anytime he goes somewhere new and every time one of his former employers appears they act as though he has absolutely lived up to that reputation in their past and present dealings. 

Yet this amazing reputation that allegedly inspires fear and awe gives absolutely nobody pause for thought in the story.  It'd be one thing for experienced bounty hunters to think they could take him despite the reputation with planning, teamwork, and numbers like in the third episode... but most of the time he's assailed by people who explicitly know that reputation and still act like he's just some idiot tourist and not supposedly a member of a feared warrior race wearing a fortune in exotic armor and weaponry.

 

55 minutes ago, Big s said:

Well I guess top dog could translate to real life. Nobody took Dog the bounty hunter seriously. He might be the only example I can come up with and I apologize for that, but there you go. A guy so bad ass that he was nothing but a joke. None of his bounties took him seriously and he caught quite a few, but even the actual public looks at the guy as a joke. Maybe that’s how people view the Mandalorians. As a bunch of goof balls with Wookiee scalps instead of mullets 

There's precious little reality in "Reality TV"... but there are also very practical reasons that "Dog the Bounty Hunter" isn't taken seriously.  Namely, that "bounty hunting" is not legal everywhere, that "bounty hunters" have no legal authority or standing to speak of in some jurasdictions, they generally can't legally detain or question anyone, their use of force is heavily restricted or outright prohibited depending on location, they're required to carry various insurances to cover damages they may cause, and they can quite easily end up in jail themselves on charges of kidnapping, assault, etc..  "Dog" himself was arrested and charged with felony kidnapping in 2003 while apprehending a bounty head in Mexico.  He skipped bail himself and fled back to the US, where he was arrested for extradition in 2006.  He only avoided extradition because the statute of limitations of the charges expired.

That seems to be very different to bounty hunting in Star Wars, where the distinction between "bounty hunter" and "assassin" seems to be either purely academic or whether one belongs to the trade association.  If Mando is any indication, there don't seem to be any real restrictions on how much force they can use or against whom... up to and including lethal force against unrelated persons.  There also don't appear to be any restrictions on how a bounty head may be restrained, given that Mando uses methods that can cause lasting physical harm like carbon freezing.  Local governments seem to be either disinterested in, or unable to, regulate or restrain bounty hunter activity.

Even if we were to assume that the galaxy looks at the Mandalorians as gung-ho yeehaw lunatics despite the series waxing lyrical about how they're seen as the deadliest warriors around, a Mando bounty hunter is still a gung-ho yeehaw lunatic whose only disincentive to murder people at will with his extensive collection of personal weaponry is that, outside of the occasional "alive only" warrant, proof of decease doesn't pay out as much as delivering a living prisoner.  That's still something most people would be supremely cautious about, IMO.

It's the same with Boba Fett in The Book of Boba Fett.  Just five years ago, he was the most feared enforcer for the most feared crime boss on Tatooine.  He was good enough at bounty hunting (murder) that he was on Darth Vader's short list of The Best of the Best in his field.  Days or at most a few weeks earlier, he waltzed into the palace of Tatooine's leading crime lord, murdered him and his retainers with impunity, and announced he was now In Charge.  Everyone knows who he is, but the only one who seems to be even the slightest bit afraid of this legendary contract killer turned crime lord is the Mos Espa mayor's secretary... and only then when there is the imminent threat of violence.

The writers clearly want these characters to be carried by their reputations for supreme badassery, but the story has absolutely eveyone treat them like jobbers of the lowest order.

 

Just now, Bolt said:

Another factor, the Mandos were literally bombed off their planet (at least most were) and into caves on other worlds. Maybe the Galaxy, in general believes that the Mandalorians have lost their juice. Although, we know the Imperial remnant takes the very name seriously..

That's a possibility... though one could also look at the same situation and easily conclude that the Mandalorians are as dangerous as advertised because the Empire felt that even Mandalorian civilians were enough of a threat to justify destroying their planet, and that cornered with nothing left to lose the Mandalorians would be even more dangerous than they were when they were just elite mercenaries.

[Mog]

Believe me, I too was barking about how Boba lost a lot of his bite in BOBF.

People should have thought twice before outright disrespecting him.

Maybe you don’t need Boba killing everyone that crosses him.  But a couple of kneecaps shot off would have done wonders to show the old bastard still has an edge.

[Big s]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There also don't appear to be any restrictions on how a bounty head may be restrained, given that Mando uses methods that can cause lasting physical harm like carbon freezing. 

That actually was something that really bugged me when I started watching the Mandalorian. Not as much for the safety of the prisoners, but more of a thing where that wasn’t even a standard practice when Boba Fett was transporting Han. He didn’t even want to do it. He was basically forced into it by Vader. That oddly enough was one of the few times in the old trilogy that someone challenged Vader that wasn’t a hero and didn’t end up dead.
 But the real issue I have about it was that somehow this became a standard practice for prisoner transport. Before that it was exclusively an industrial process. Yet somehow Mando heard about it or something and started freezing almost everyone he caught

as far as the Dog thing , that was more of a joke because you never really hear about bounty hunters in modern days 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Big s

[Bolt]

They did Boba Fett so wrong..in that thread, i had many a gripe.  

[pengbuzz]

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I could buy that, given how Fett is treated in The Book of Boba Fett.

 

That's not even close to what was being talked about, though.

"Getting into trouble" is expected, Mando's a bounty hunter.  The problem is that The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett both write expositional checks the story can't cash.

Everywhere Din goes in The Mandalorian, he's preceded by the Mandalorian reputation for stone cold badassery.  He's actively trading on it anytime he goes somewhere new and every time one of his former employers appears they act as though he has absolutely lived up to that reputation in their past and present dealings. 

Yet this amazing reputation that allegedly inspires fear and awe gives absolutely nobody pause for thought in the story.  It'd be one thing for experienced bounty hunters to think they could take him despite the reputation with planning, teamwork, and numbers like in the third episode... but most of the time he's assailed by people who explicitly know that reputation and still act like he's just some idiot tourist and not supposedly a member of a feared warrior race wearing a fortune in exotic armor and weaponry.

 

There's precious little reality in "Reality TV"... but there are also very practical reasons that "Dog the Bounty Hunter" isn't taken seriously.  Namely, that "bounty hunting" is not legal everywhere, that "bounty hunters" have no legal authority or standing to speak of in some jurasdictions, they generally can't legally detain or question anyone, their use of force is heavily restricted or outright prohibited depending on location, they're required to carry various insurances to cover damages they may cause, and they can quite easily end up in jail themselves on charges of kidnapping, assault, etc..  "Dog" himself was arrested and charged with felony kidnapping in 2003 while apprehending a bounty head in Mexico.  He skipped bail himself and fled back to the US, where he was arrested for extradition in 2006.  He only avoided extradition because the statute of limitations of the charges expired.

That seems to be very different to bounty hunting in Star Wars, where the distinction between "bounty hunter" and "assassin" seems to be either purely academic or whether one belongs to the trade association.  If Mando is any indication, there don't seem to be any real restrictions on how much force they can use or against whom... up to and including lethal force against unrelated persons.  There also don't appear to be any restrictions on how a bounty head may be restrained, given that Mando uses methods that can cause lasting physical harm like carbon freezing.  Local governments seem to be either disinterested in, or unable to, regulate or restrain bounty hunter activity.

Even if we were to assume that the galaxy looks at the Mandalorians as gung-ho yeehaw lunatics despite the series waxing lyrical about how they're seen as the deadliest warriors around, a Mando bounty hunter is still a gung-ho yeehaw lunatic whose only disincentive to murder people at will with his extensive collection of personal weaponry is that, outside of the occasional "alive only" warrant, proof of decease doesn't pay out as much as delivering a living prisoner.  That's still something most people would be supremely cautious about, IMO.

It's the same with Boba Fett in The Book of Boba Fett.  Just five years ago, he was the most feared enforcer for the most feared crime boss on Tatooine.  He was good enough at bounty hunting (murder) that he was on Darth Vader's short list of The Best of the Best in his field.  Days or at most a few weeks earlier, he waltzed into the palace of Tatooine's leading crime lord, murdered him and his retainers with impunity, and announced he was now In Charge.  Everyone knows who he is, but the only one who seems to be even the slightest bit afraid of this legendary contract killer turned crime lord is the Mos Espa mayor's secretary... and only then when there is the imminent threat of violence.

The writers clearly want these characters to be carried by their reputations for supreme badassery, but the story has absolutely eveyone treat them like jobbers of the lowest order.

 

That's a possibility... though one could also look at the same situation and easily conclude that the Mandalorians are as dangerous as advertised because the Empire felt that even Mandalorian civilians were enough of a threat to justify destroying their planet, and that cornered with nothing left to lose the Mandalorians would be even more dangerous than they were when they were just elite mercenaries.

16 hours ago, Big s said:

That actually was something that really bugged me when I started watching the Mandalorian. Not as much for the safety of the prisoners, but more of a thing where that wasn’t even a standard practice when Boba Fett was transporting Han. He didn’t even want to do it. He was basically forced into it by Vader. That oddly enough was one of the few times in the old trilogy that someone challenged Vader that wasn’t a hero and didn’t end up dead.
 But the real issue I have about it was that somehow this became a standard practice for prisoner transport. Before that it was exclusively an industrial process. Yet somehow Mando heard about it or something and started freezing almost everyone he caught

as far as the Dog thing , that was more of a joke because you never really hear about bounty hunters in modern days 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

They did Boba Fett so wrong..in that thread, i had many a gripe.  

Basically, this is what they did to poor Boba and Mando:

[Seto Kaiba]

On 10/31/2023 at 4:54 PM, Big s said:

But the real issue I have about it was that somehow this became a standard practice for prisoner transport. Before that it was exclusively an industrial process. Yet somehow Mando heard about it or something and started freezing almost everyone he caught

To be honest, I didn't find anything wrong with Mando having a carbon freeze system on his ship.

Keeping a live prisoner is a nontrivial risk for a bounty hunter.  They have to be fed, watered, have access to sanitary facilities, etc., which all costs money.  Many prisoners facing the no doubt harsh punishments from those who posted the bounty on them would be inclined to attempt to escape from confinement and attack the bounty hunter, hijack the ship, or sabotage the ship if they have accomplices who might rescue them.  Carbon freezing prisoners neatly evades most of those issues, since the prisoners in cryogenic hibernation are incapable of escaping on their own or engaging in self-harm, don't consume food or water, and don't produce waste.  That way the prisoner can be delivered alive and shenanigans-free even if the process is acutely unpleasant for the prisoner.  They also keep for a long time, so a bounty hunter freezing their quarrey wouldn't necessarily have to take one job at a time.

 

On 10/31/2023 at 4:54 PM, Big s said:

as far as the Dog thing , that was more of a joke because you never really hear about bounty hunters in modern days 

It's a bit of accidental genius, IMO... since it really makes for an effective way to demonstrate why it's so insane that people treat Din and Boba with such a cavalier attitude.

There's nobody policing the bounty hunters and no legal safety net preventing them from employing the most incredible violence to secure the bounty head.  They aren't some dumb hick bail bondsman cosplaying a member of the Village People who'll go to jail himself if he gets rough... these are heavily armed career killers whose only incentive to keep you alive is that you're worth more money that way, and for their purposes "alive" doesn't necessarily mean unharmed.  Never mind that they have zero incentive to keep alive anyone who's dumb enough to get between them and their prize.

[Big s]

50 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

To be honest, I didn't find anything wrong with Mando having a carbon freeze system on his ship.

Keeping a live prisoner is a nontrivial risk for a bounty hunter.  They have to be fed, watered, have access to sanitary facilities, etc., which all costs money.  Many prisoners facing the no doubt harsh punishments from those who posted the bounty on them would be inclined to attempt to escape from confinement and attack the bounty hunter, hijack the ship, or sabotage the ship if they have accomplices who might rescue them.  Carbon freezing prisoners neatly evades most of those issues, since the prisoners in cryogenic hibernation are incapable of escaping on their own or engaging in self-harm, don't consume food or water, and don't produce waste.  That way the prisoner can be delivered alive and shenanigans-free even if the process is acutely unpleasant for the prisoner.  They also keep for a long time, so a bounty hunter freezing their quarrey wouldn't necessarily have to take one job at a time.

That part isn’t what bothered me, it’s more of a how did this become a standard thing. Boba got swallowed by a sarlac and was down there for quite some time. Most of the people that were witnesses to Han being frozen or seeing him after he was frozen are dead or on that backwater planet that no one goes to. The only thing I can come up with is that Lando started marketing carbonite freezers to bounty hunters after seeing the process work once.
Or is Din the only one that has one for that purpose. If so it just seems like too big a coincidence that boba had a singular instance of it being used and now a guy that dresses just like him has one on his ship.

[Thom]

There were other beings in the room too who saw Han being carbfroze. All they have to do is tell a few tales to the right people and then everyone would be using it. Heck, even Vader could have taken ownership of the idea and profited off of it.

[Bolt]

Just now, Thom said:

There were other beings in the room too who saw Han being carbfroze. All they have to do is tell a few tales to the right people and then everyone would be using it. Heck, even Vader could have taken ownership of the idea and profited off of it.

Agreed. Such technology surely wiggled its way onto the open market. Heck, Boba fett, could've even had the design plans. 

[levzloi]

8 minutes ago, Thom said:

There were other beings in the room too who saw Han being carbfroze. All they have to do is tell a few tales to the right people and then everyone would be using it. Heck, even Vader could have taken ownership of the idea and profited off of it.

Beyond that, Han Solo was on display frozen in carbonite in Jabba's palace for almost a year, would have been common knowledge in the underworld. 

[Seto Kaiba]

27 minutes ago, Thom said:

There were other beings in the room too who saw Han being carbfroze. All they have to do is tell a few tales to the right people and then everyone would be using it. Heck, even Vader could have taken ownership of the idea and profited off of it.

IMO, a more likely explanation is that the idea propigated while Han was on display in Jabba's palace.

By nature of his chosen vocation, Jabba the Hutt was naturally inclined to do a fair amount of business with bounty hunters and kept at least one (and more likely several) of them on retainer as hired muscle.  Every one of them would have known that Fett collected the bounty on Han Solo and had an opportunity to see the carbonite slab because Jabba had it mounted on the wall of his audience chamber.  That would probably have been enough for most bounty hunters to put two and two together and end up spreading the idea when they talked shop with other bounty hunters.

(Though I do find the idea of some PR flack trying to convince Lord-freaking-Vader to do PV spots for a portable carbon freeze system marketed to bounty hunters absolutely hilarious.  Doubly so since Rogue One revealed he's not above a villainous pun, and Vader being Anakin and therefore a massive drama queen he'd be as hammy as possible in something like that.)