The Mandalorian - Star Wars webseries from Jon Favreau

[sh9000]

Paz Vizsla kill count.  RIP.

 

[technoblue]

That was a banger of an episode. Not perfect, but fun all the same. I did come away with some of my own niggling questions…

Spoiler

How did all the Mandalorians fall for that trap at the forge? Bo Katan knew the Imperials were in her home system. Din’s sect was already ultra-paranoid, hiding away from almost everyone until the big event to retake their homeworld. The plan to secure key areas with a strategic ground force before resettling seemed to align with these established character traits.

Then, when the armorer left to bring the wounded back in orbit for better treatment, I figured we would see the Imperials show up. But I was expecting another in-space ambush. Watching the ground team push right into Moff Gideon was frustrating. It was like they had no sense of awareness in that moment. Not until Gideon appeared and gave his “Gotcha!” speech.

But now that we know stranded Mandalorian guardsmen were still on the planet roaming about, I am even more curious how the Imperials alluded these guys. Surely it would have been key intelligence to know that those who destroyed your planet were back raiding its Beskar mines to create super-powered stormtroopers?

This is the first time I feel the story could have benefitted from an extra scene or two…or three…establishing how Gideon got into the forge undetected instead of just jumping from that shadow council discussion to the other scenes on Mandalore and the big battle of the episide.

 

[Keith]

38 minutes ago, technoblue said:

That was a banger of an episode. Not perfect, but fun all the same. I did come away with some of my own niggling questions…

  Hide contents

How did all the Mandalorians fall for that trap at the forge? Bo Katan knew the Imperials were in her home system. Din’s sect was already ultra-paranoid, hiding away from almost everyone until the big event to retake their homeworld. The plan to secure key areas with a strategic ground force before resettling seemed to align with these established character traits.

Then, when the armorer left to bring the wounded back in orbit for better treatment, I figured we would see the Imperials show up. But I was expecting another in-space ambush. Watching the ground team push right into Moff Gideon was frustrating. It was like they had no sense of awareness in that moment. Not until Gideon appeared and gave his “Gotcha!” speech.

But now that we know stranded Mandalorian guardsmen were still on the planet roaming about, I am even more curious how the Imperials alluded these guys. Surely it would have been key intelligence to know that those who destroyed your planet were back raiding its Beskar mines to create super-powered stormtroopers?

This is the first time I feel the story could have benefitted from an extra scene or two…or three…establishing how Gideon got into the forge undetected instead of just jumping from that shadow council discussion to the other scenes on Mandalore and the big battle of the episide.

 

That's the thing, 

Spoiler

Aren't the Mandolorians they found on the surface who led them into the trap the  aforementioned "Spies" that the episode title alludes to? 

I don't think either Mando side would have sauntered in so haphazardly if there hadn't been friendlies to not only empathize with, but shpw them a wuick route.

 

[technoblue]

3 hours ago, Keith said:

That's the thing, 

  Hide contents

Aren't the Mandolorians they found on the surface who led them into the trap the  aforementioned "Spies" that the episode title alludes to? 

I don't think either Mando side would have sauntered in so haphazardly if there hadn't been friendlies to not only empathize with, but shpw them a wuick route.

 

That’s a good point. I missed that nuance when watching the episode the other night. 

[Bolt]

Great episode! And Great visuals, wow!

Spoiler

It was very cool seeing the multiple Mandalorian factions join.

I think Gideon and Co. had mined the Beskar shortly after glassing the place. Or yes, they did it later and the glass sailors are indeed turn coats and knew already. We already know TK girl is a spy early on (great cyberpunk city scapes!) but the episode was plural..

RIP Paz Vizsla ! He went down like a true Mando! I expect his son to be prominent in future stories.

 

Another thing I'm really digging is that Din is "The One who serves The One" It's not Bo Katan stealing the show.  He's the one Mandalorian who helps her unite the clans. And this is his story merging with hers. Clearly she couldn't have done it without him. He's the pivot point. 

 

On 4/13/2023 at 5:44 PM, jvmacross said:

How exactly is the "new" dark trooper suit unveiled by Moff Gideon "better" than the Dark Troopers seen at the end of Season 2?.

Beskar! 

[jvmacross]

29 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Beskar! 

...and how many beskar-armored Stormtroopers did ONE Mandalorian Heavy Gunner single-handedly gun down? 

24 per the kill count video posted by @sh9000

Based on how that battle went down...I'm thinking the original droid Dark Troopers were much deadlier....one Mandalorian (Din - a formidable Mandalorian) could barely handle one of them, with most of his Mandalorian weapons failing to take down a single Dark Trooper.....if it wasn't for his Beskar spear...he may have been killed...

So based on this decision from Moff Gideon, we can see the origins of the tactical stupidity displayed by the First Order years later...LOL

 

[Keith]

33 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

...and how many beskar-armored Stormtroopers did ONE Mandalorian Heavy Gunner single-handedly gun down? 

24 per the kill count video posted by @sh9000

Based on how that battle went down...I'm thinking the original droid Dark Troopers were much deadlier....one Mandalorian (Din - a formidable Mandalorian) could barely handle one of them, with most of his Mandalorian weapons failing to take down a single Dark Trooper.....if it wasn't for his Beskar spear...he may have been killed...

So based on this decision from Moff Gideon, we can see the origins of the tactical stupidity displayed by the First Order years later...LOL

 

Spoiler

Deadlier, but still droids. I think it's more of an issue of his own defeat, thinking himself invincible now with armor.

 

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, jvmacross said:

...and how many beskar-armored Stormtroopers did ONE Mandalorian Heavy Gunner single-handedly gun down? 

24 per the kill count video posted by @sh9000

Based on how that battle went down...I'm thinking the original droid Dark Troopers were much deadlier....one Mandalorian (Din - a formidable Mandalorian) could barely handle one of them, with most of his Mandalorian weapons failing to take down a single Dark Trooper.....if it wasn't for his Beskar spear...he may have been killed...

So based on this decision from Moff Gideon, we can see the origins of the tactical stupidity displayed by the First Order years later...LOL

 

I think you're right. If these Beskar dudes were droids , they would have been much stronger.
They could have taken more punishment, for sure. I guess they figured putting elite empirical humans in Beskar was enough to handle Mandalorians. 🤷

I'm hoping Moff Gideon gets a surprise next episode 

Another thing..

Spoiler

Grogu's mech ! IG-12  Lol , pretty cool ! 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Bolt

[jvmacross]

[Duke Togo]

I'm actually relieved with how they handled the season ender. And it gives me hope for the future of the show.

[Mog]

Make no mistake, there were some plot holes and

Spoiler

Gideon effed around too much with the idiot ball.

But watching the Ride of the Mandalorians with Bo lighting up the Darksaber and then them dropping the cruiser right on the base was pretty friggin’ cool.

Definitely Mando Teamwork on full display.

Pretty sure Thrawn would point out all of Gideon’s mistakes in how he screwed up the whole situation with the Mandalorians.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Mog

[Roy Focker]

That was boring and pointless.

Seemed like a big do over of Season's 2 finale. For those who were disappointment that Luke saved the day and baby Yoda left him. This time Mando saves the day and lives happily ever after with baby Yoda. Gideon presence in this season was just to show up for round 2. Episode 1 to 6 side quests with hints that there might some else going on. Episode 7 bad guys give 5 minutes of expositional dialogue to tell us about all that stuff they've been doing that the show could have showed us on screen during earlier episodes. Rest of run time Mandalorians wandering around talking.

Episode 8 one long fight that I had zero emotional investment in. Hard to tell some of them apart. Just 2 sides flying around in jet packs. Why couldn't they devotee more episodes to the taking the planet back instead of all that wasteful story telling? This episode was the final battle of a better season that we didn't get to see. You build the story up to the final fight. You don't just have your heroes do random stuff until finally they bump into the main bad guy who they weren't even aware was still around and then have a big final fight.

 

[azrael]

That felt.. rushed. Like really rushed.

The only thing that really resolved was

Spoiler

..retaking Mandalore.

Also, the Darksaber being destroyed...So what was the point of it then?

Other than that, my summation of this season is: Disappointment. Most of the season was "meh". The rest regarding Mando & Grogu feels like it got pushed to next season along with hitting the reset button, i.e., moving the goal post for the 2 characters we're suppose to care about. If there was no Season 4, it would be fine, but since they are moving forward with Season 4, Season 3 feels like a let-down.

Season 3: 👎

[Roy Focker]

As for the stupid.

Only 2 guys to take Mando to a prison cell?  And why didn't they remove his helmet?  It would have broken his spirt and I don't know leave him vulnerable incase he tries to escape. Blast him dead in the face. Maybe Pedro voice was the only part him here for the entire season.

Shouldn't Baby Yoda be dead?  In the Last Jedi Luke performed a very impressive display of the force and it left him so weak he died.  Baby Yoda performed a very impressed display of the force in the finale and he doesn't drop dead?

[Mog]

Grogu was already stopping fire in Season 1.

Figure some of his training probably came back after learning with Luke for a bit.  So, the Force shield doesn’t bother me as much.

. . . And the less we speak of The Last Jedi, the better.  But Luke was an old, out of practice bastard at that point in time, Force projecting how far away again? (Making myself 🤮, just remembering that dumb movie).

[jvmacross]

So the big twist was that Gideon was trying to create a force-enhanced army?  Was he doing this for himself or in service of the Emperor?...I am thinking that the Shadow Council consisted of some that knew of the Emperor being alive or waiting to be brought back and those who were not in the know and were hoping for the return of Thrawn....or perhaps it's the opposite and Gideon was the one trying to act alone?....

......the slow march to the Sequel Trilogy continues....

 

[Roy Focker]

I think Gideon's story was originally part of the clone Palpatine plan but the 1st season was such a hit they decided to change that story and move to the Thanos I mean Thrawn story arc.

What I really didn't like about this episode is Mando didn't earn it.  He had a key role in the episode.  It primarily focused on him as you would expect for the main character but he wasn't the main character. Bo was. She had character growth he had none.  She had something to prove he didn't. 

Honestly he and baby weren't even needed this season. They didn't learn anything, changed for the better or for the worst.  It was a phone in performance for a useless part.

[Hikuro]

This sorta felt more like a series finale versus a season finale.

[jvmacross]

These shows further make the sequels even more ridiculous....at least the Mandalorian did...

I actually re-watched TLJ recently and chuckled at one of the lines spoken by either Leia or that purple haired lady....something about how the people of the galaxy will rise up against the First Order to restore the New Republic...

Then we got to see how "great" the New  Republic is...huh?

No wonder the galaxy blew off the Resistance's request for backup at the end of TLJ....the allure of bringing back the New Republic's beaurcracy wasn't all that great....but maybe after a few years of First Order level of beaurcracy, the people chose the lesser of two evils....lol

[TangledThorns]

I must say seeing Katee Sackhoff like this again has made me nostalgic for BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.

 

So say we all v This is the way

[Duke Togo]

Is this a good time for me to say I'm not a fan of Filoni's work and I'm hoping the seeming reboot we get at the end of this episode means less of his nonsense in this show?

[jvmacross]

Doubtful...if anything they will double-down on it....

[Roy Focker]

I've got serious doubts about the continued success of these Disney Plus series. I wasn't a fan of Rogue One. A gritter take on Star Wars was an interesting idea but to me it wasn't that upbeat adventure that Star Wars was known for. Movie knew this the tired to shoehorn more upbeat adventure elements. Which gave the movie a conflicting tone. Enter the first season of the Mandalorian. A show about some small-time bounty hunter in Boba Fett armor okay. I'll give a try. Could be nice to watch a Star Wars story that isn't about Jedi and stuff. Baby Yoda is an instant fan favorite with kids and adults. They had a hit on their hands and kept leaning in on all the family fun elements. Andor came along and made me appreciate Rogue One more. I like to think Andor and the Filoni Inspired shows aren't even part of the same universe. Disney is really counting on the Filoni-verse and it isn't getting much love from the critics. Kids, casual fans and Filoni-antics might love it now, but I think the casual fans will start to get Filoni-fatigue like they did with Marvel. Not saying every show has to be like Andor but it doesn't all have to be like this live action cartoon.

Even The Last Jedi is better than this. Plenty of things to dislike about that movie, but at least it was trying to tell a story with character arcs. I read a review that said after this episode Mando is the same character he was at the start of the series. Zero growth. You need something besides cute character does cute thing and fighting character does fighting thing to carry this franchise.

 

[Mog]

4 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

 

Even The Last Jedi is better than this. Plenty of things to dislike about that movie, but at least it was trying to tell a story with character arcs. I read a review that said after this episode Mando is the same character he was at the start of the series. Zero growth. You need something besides cute character does cute thing and fighting character does fighting thing to carry this franchise.

 

They were crappy story “arcs.”  

What exactly was Poe supposed to learn in that film?  To trust his leader blindly without asking logical questions?

Finn sorta had an arc, but then Rose had to go and mess up his moment of sacrificing for the greater good.  And really, where in that entire movie does she show any sort of emotion for him other than disdain?

Rey had that whole “You’re nobody” arc, but then the next movie dropped that angle.

Rescuing and protecting his friends has always been a core aspect of Luke, but guess they had to “subvert expectations” and not have him give a damn that his good friend died and his sister is in trouble.

Kylo had an arc?  For all his talk about killing the past, he sure had a hard time trying to pull the trigger on Mommy.

Zero growth in Mando?

Mando’s gone from being a loner who only cares about his covert to a loving dad, a guy that backs up his friends and allies, and a guy who’s willing to serve another Mandalorian who often takes off her helmet.

Yeah, he’ll still kick a battle droid, but he’s slowly learning to trust a few droids, something he never would have done at the start of the series.

Grogu’s actually getting better with using the Force and doesn’t need to automatically go into sleepy, nap-time right after exerting himself.  He’s gone from choking a chick in Season 1 to actually trying to stop a fight in Season 3.

Bo’s actually grown from the character we first saw in Clone Wars.  And after experiencing all that in-fighting, she’s consistently refrained from killing another fellow Mandalorian and was willing to hang with the religious cult.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Mog

[Roy Focker]

4 hours ago, Mog said:

Zero growth in Mando?

Mando’s gone from being a loner who only cares about his covert to a loving dad, a guy that backs up his friends and allies, and a guy who’s willing to serve another Mandalorian who often takes off her helmet.

Yeah, he’ll still kick a battle droid, but he’s slowly learning to trust a few droids, something he never would have done at the start of the series.

Grogu’s actually getting better with using the Force and doesn’t need to automatically go into sleepy, nap-time right after exerting himself.  He’s gone from choking a chick in Season 1 to actually trying to stop a fight in Season 3.

Bo’s actually grown from the character we first saw in Clone Wars.  And after experiencing all that in-fighting, she’s consistently refrained from killing another fellow Mandalorian and was willing to hang with the religious cult.

What growth did Mando have in season 3? He took a bath so he could rejoin his cult. That's not growth. That's regression. He decided to become the kid's protector and father figure in season 1, 2 and Book of Boba. This season could of had him questioning if taking baby Yoda back was the right decision? There was a reason to give the kid up in the first place. The lifestyle of bounty hunter is no place for raising a child and the kid has PTSD and unchecked god like powers. He wanted what was best for him but later couldn't live without his son - that was from the Book of Boba. They could have shown consequences of this action to create drama. They did nothing for his character this season.

Improving a skill isn't growth. What about that whole flashback with human face Jedi Jar Jar? They could have continued to show more that. Maybe even have baby Yoda actually speak using his own voice. We get a flashback of order 66 to remind us why he doesn't talk to having him talking in the end. That would have been growth. He actually yells "No!" instead of using a droid's voice.

This is The Mandalorian a TV show for the whole family. The Clone Wars is a cartoon for children. Yes, I said for children. It originally aired on cartoon network. The target audience there were children. Majority of adults who watched the Mandalorian didn't watch the cartoons. They only saw how much she grew in this show. Of all the characters she was the one with actual growth this season. Started it in a shame gutter thinking she's not worthy of leading, climbs out of it, shares she's to blame for losing their home and learns to lead without needing to hold Excalibur. 

Mando and Baby just went along for the ride. Their story ended in season 2 and did backsies in Book of Boba. Finished backsies with him taking a bath this season. Jesus Christ the message of season 1 and 2 was Mando is still suffering from his own childhood trauma of losing his family the cult saved and raised him but he's not happy. In episode 4 he befriends Omera hiding out in that village with baby Yoda. She asks him to stay and live in there in peace. His answer? I don't belong here. Why does he think this?  Because he was raised by a cult. Taking off his helmet in season 2 was the hardest thing for him to do as equal as giving up baby Yoda. But book of Boba he gets the kid back, in season 3 he gets his cult back and now he's raising the kid with the same moral lessons from the same cult that messed him up. Season 3 could have ended with him returning to her village with kid and him with no helmet. He's giving his creed, his cult to be this kid's father in a good environment for raising him. Maybe she can be a part of their life too. That would be growth. 

Mando is father of the year.

[Mog]

Just to clarify:  I have no issue with the idea that Mando didn’t grow much or reverted some in Season 3.  The only new thing that Season 3 added was a new willingness to work with some droids (wanting to repair IG-11 and partnering with R5).

But to say that Mando’s the same character as at the start of the series is hyperbole by that reviewer.

[Bolt]

I really enjoyed the last episode. Lots of action. Lots of Mando's kicking ass.

Spoiler

I was a little surprised how far Gideon was taking the clone thing. So much clone references, obviously pointing to the return of Sidious. With the dark saber destroyed, i hope Bo Katan rebuilds it and we get a cool variant.  But , as she's not a force user, maybe that's beyond her. 

The season ended pretty neat , without any major cliffs to hang on. It could be completely done where it's at, and that would be fine. But we know there's more to come. And I expect to see Din show up in Asoka, anyway. As i said before, I really like the concept of Din being the one to serve the one. Without him, there's no way Bo Katana could have united the clans. He even took the lead on a few issues. She was wise enough to sit back and learn. He's also come up as a much respected figure among his own clan. And has even evolved "the creed" a bit. I hope that during his further adventures, Mandalore does rebuild and unite strong. There's nothing saying that the Mandalorians aren't around and thriving during the sequel trilogy time line. 

[technoblue]

I thought it was quite a fun episode too. Generally, I’m into how the show lets different Mandalorians get the spotlight. I’m not attached to Din being the namesake in every episode but it’s cool that he is there as a common reference point even if he isn’t always the focus.

Some other, spoliery thoughts…

Spoiler

In that final battle, I was waiting for Grogu to get tempted to go dark again. When the Elite Praetorians had cornered Din, I thought we were there, but the training Luke gave him appears to have really helped. He only used his force powers to push, pull, or hold things back. Pretty cool.

The clone stuff was insidious. One thing I’m not sure what to make of is Gideon’s place in that shadow conclave, especially after the revelations here. Earlier seasons built him up as some kind of Imperial mastermind—almost on Thrawn’s level, I would think—but this makes him seem more like an megalomaniacal Imperial warlord using remnant tech to push his own influence. I guess it remains to be seen if he has another stash of clones somewhere.

 

[jvmacross]

39 minutes ago, technoblue said:

I thought it was quite a fun episode too. Generally, I’m into how the show lets different Mandalorians get the spotlight. I’m not attached to Din being the namesake in every episode but it’s cool that he is there as a common reference point even if he isn’t always the focus.

Some other, spoliery thoughts…

  Hide contents

In that final battle, I was waiting for Grogu to get tempted to go dark again. When the Elite Praetorians had cornered Din, I thought we were there, but the training Luke gave him appears to have really helped. He only used his force powers to push, pull, or hold things back. Pretty cool.

The clone stuff was insidious. One thing I’m not sure what to make of is Gideon’s place in that shadow conclave, especially after the revelations here. Earlier seasons built him up as some kind of Imperial mastermind—almost on Thrawn’s level, I would think—but this makes him seem more like an megalomaniacal Imperial warlord using remnant tech to push his own influence. I guess it remains to be seen if he has another stash of clones somewhere.

 

I like the idea of him having another stash somewhere....perhaps that would be how that tech gets in the hands of Sidious' followers...

But to me it really looked in the end that Gideon was either working alone or carrying out plans for the "Final Order", which the other members of the shadow council seemed to not be aware of....perhaps this will culminate in a Civil War between the groups loyal to Thrawn and those loyal to Palpatine? 

There was a guy on that council that had the same last name as that incompetent general in the First Order....my guess is whatever group he was in...leads to First Order....but as we now know....the First Order wasn't really aware of Darth Sidious still pulling the strings....so it will be interesting to find out how Thrawn plays into this.....will he be yet another puppet in Palpatine's long game...or will he turn into an adversary of his...

[technoblue]

5 hours ago, jvmacross said:

I like the idea of him having another stash somewhere....perhaps that would be how that tech gets in the hands of Sidious' followers...

But to me it really looked in the end that Gideon was either working alone or carrying out plans for the "Final Order", which the other members of the shadow council seemed to not be aware of....perhaps this will culminate in a Civil War between the groups loyal to Thrawn and those loyal to Palpatine? 

There was a guy on that council that had the same last name as that incompetent general in the First Order....my guess is whatever group he was in...leads to First Order....but as we now know....the First Order wasn't really aware of Darth Sidious still pulling the strings....so it will be interesting to find out how Thrawn plays into this.....will he be yet another puppet in Palpatine's long game...or will he turn into an adversary of his...

Indeed. I’m very curious to see how Thrawn is realized in live action.

Oh, and having a show touch on the splintering of the Imperial remnants is a very interesting angle too. It could almost be its own thing if done well.

[TangledThorns]

Almost finished the season and kinda disappointed but I blame ANDOR for setting the new bar which is now very high IMHO.

[Tking22]

Really enjoyed the finale, didn't enjoy the season, very mediocre overall. 

[TangledThorns]

The season finale felt like a series finale and I think Disney is planning on wrapping up all things SKYWALKER saga related with with the new films planned before moving onto the next big SAGA to milk.

[Bolt]

I've heard of an upcoming series called Jedi Knight. Which will chronicle Luke after ROTJ rebuilding the Jedi order and his/ their adventures leading up to TFA. This will cover Luke at different ages. And a recast is being considered.  So , if the rumor mill is true, they're not done milking the Skywalker thing. 
And then there's the eminent return if Rey Skywalker..

[Duke Togo]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

I've heard of an upcoming series called Jedi Knight. Which will chronicle Luke after ROTJ rebuilding the Jedi order and his/ their adventures leading up to TFA. This will cover Luke at different ages. And a recast is being considered.

No reputable sites are reporting this. Not even a whisper.