VS-XS Valkyrie II

JELEINEN · August 29, 2003

Why not just make a link on your site pointing to that page on Nanashi's?

Angel's Fury · August 29, 2003

I can't remember, did the VF2SS also have the Patlabor-ish head too? I like it.

Good Eye! I knew somebody would notice that! I guess I'm not the only one who did.

Angel's Fury · August 29, 2003

Dang. 4 airbrakes that big, with that degree of extension---should be able to out-brake anything but a Harrier or a valk putting its legs forward.

Just out of curiosity(hopefully this aren't stupid questions), can our fighters of today have extra air brakes?

Is this feasible? Will this compromise the structure? Will they be able to do high angled attacks with this?

David Hingtgen · August 29, 2003

There's not much need. Airbrakes are VERY strong. Ever put your hand out the window of a moving car? Now imagine you've got a 30 sqft surface, at Mach 1.5. SERIOUS resistance.

F-15 has the biggest airbrake I know of, F-14's are quite small. F-18's is quite large, and can stick WAY out. F-16 has 4, but it's more like 2 sets that each split in half--usually counted as just 2. Rather small, but can open quite wide. F-4's are under the wings, Tornados on either side of the rear upper fuselage. F-8 under the belly, F-5's I can't remember (Either under the wings or on the fuselage sides)

Airliners have multi-purpose spoilers, which can do most anything--roll, brake, descend, etc. Always on top of the wings, right ahead of the flaps. Usually called "speed brakes" when used to slow down, "spoilers" for roll--even though it's the EXACT same part.

I've never known an airbrake to cause structural problems, the biggest problem is severe buffetting when deployed. F-15 had a BIG problem with this, and led to 1 modification, and later a complete redesign of the airbrake. (Through it all, the F-15ACTIVE kept the original design).

CaptRico · August 29, 2003

(Please forget and forgive my actions on these posts.)

Edited August 30, 2003 by CaptRico

Aurel Tristen · August 30, 2003

*Ahem* Please excuse this outburst. This is directed solely at CaptRico. Please disregard if you are not him.

Okay after, 7 posts to this thread, PMing and 2 emails through MW from CaptRico I am starting to feel just a bit harrassed.

You really should be careful and think before you open your mouth. You may regret your words afterwards. (Probably not as much as I am going to regret having to show my @$$ in public because of you and your snivvling .)

CaptRico....

First of all let me say that I am NOT a girl!

Miyuki Saito, a translator that works for the Nanashi's Information Group is a "she", however I am not.

No, you may NOT use the scans that I have made.

You said that you've been looking for images of this mecha for how long?

CaptRico

Besides, how long has anyone been searching for these images?
A LONG TIME.

Excuse me sir, but I am interested in knowing just how long before my initial post did you even know of the VS-XS Valkyrie II's existance.

Yes this mecha design was drawn by Kouichi Ouhata, Junichi Akutsu, and/or Jun Okuda and they given their due credit. There is nothing I can really do about people leeching my scans. I can only ask that people not to copy the scans that I make. If in fact, the files on our server are lost, I have them backed up on CD..... if the data on the CDs is lost then I have all of the books and other source materials and am willing to spend the countless hours scanning and retouching the images again if needed. Please do not take the images that I have scanned. If I had not scanned them, then you would not have them to put them on your site, correct? Yes they are for everyone to see-to see on the Nanashi's Information Group website, but not to be taken and used on someone else's site.

It doesn't make any damn sense for you to take images from my website against my wishes. You want the images, either view them on the Nanashi's website OR aquire the source materials, scan them and retouch them yourself.

First you're telling me that you are going to take the images, then you're apologizing saying you won't use them, next you're asking to use them after I told you no, then you're demanding again. You're a freaking loon.

And don't ever talk to me the way you did again. In fact leave me the hell alone. I find you to be despicable... you are very rude, selfish and sickeningly unstable person who rips off images and text from other website because you don't have a mind of your own.

Have a heart? I have one. Get a grip and/or get a life.

I do this to create an accurate Macross mecha information resource site that I am making for my fellow Macross fans and myself.

Is what I get for all the efforts? To get the satisfaction of seeing someone leeching again.

Its disheartening.

Do what you want... but my response to your request is still NO.

I have nothing more to say on this matter.

Again, everyone else, please excuse this outburst. : (

Valkyrie · August 30, 2003

Couldn't agree more, Nanashi.

But I must admit, I got a good laugh out of reading Rico's posts. I couldn't help but wonder... who was he trying to convince, Nanashi or himself?

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

(Please forget and forgive these posts. Thank you.)

Edited August 31, 2003 by CaptRico

Chthonic · August 30, 2003

Okay ...... This is about to become Stupid-

I like Macross Images just like anyone else- But on a side-note - it's like this - Dude, it someone spends their time and artistic talent to upload, create or develope something- then by all means - respect their wishes when they say they don't want it copied or uploaded- the cool thing to do is buy the Friggin book- make a copy of the image- scan, color it- make paper airplanes- then you have what you want and everyone is happy

Shawn · August 30, 2003

Its not about ownership, its about RESPECT.

If you want to scan the original image yourself and post it to your website no one is stopping you. But if someone else took the time to scan and prep the image, and they ask you not to copy it just respect the request.

Nobody on these forums owns any of this stuff-everyone knows that. But we are all fans-lets not step on each others toes when it comes to something like this. Not everyone has access to some of these rarer pics-and if we don't appreciate the effort it takes someone to work on these fan sites, how soon will it be before scans are NOT made anymore. Enough already.

Thanks

Shawn

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

(Please forget and forgive these posts. Thank you.)

Edited August 31, 2003 by CaptRico

Valkyrie · August 30, 2003

If you really want to make up with Nanashi, then just shut the hell up. Just drop the whole thing now.

I think Shawn has just settled this matter, anyway.

And if you really MUST have those pics on your page in some form, then ask Nanashi permission permission to link to his VS-XS page (not the pics) from your VS-XS page. I'm willing to bet he'd agree to that compromise.

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

(Please forget and forgive these posts. Thank you.)

Edited August 31, 2003 by CaptRico

Isamu Atreides 86 · August 30, 2003

then just respect his wishes, and let it be done. Nanashi did the work on this, just like Shawn said, and i think everyone owes it to him to respect his wishes. he does a great service to us here, and i think it would be a shame to loose that simply because a member believes he can be disrespectful.

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

(Please forget and forgive these posts. Thank you.) about more...

Edited August 31, 2003 by CaptRico

Valkyrie · August 30, 2003

Well, your options are on the table. Either link to his page or buy your own copy of the book. Can't find one? Too bad.

I think this discussion has now gone as far as it can go. Can a mod lock this topic now, before Rico here digs himself into an even deeper hole?

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

then just respect his wishes, and let it be done. Nanashi did the work on this, just like Shawn said, and i think everyone owes it to him to respect his wishes. he does a great service to us here, and i think it would be a shame to loose that simply because a member believes he can be disrespectful.

Well, then me:

What would you do if our positions were reversed? If you so badly wanted to use these images, so that others could use them, and you come to this problem, how would you solve it?

I mean, The VS-XS is M2, and my site's soul purpose is to POST every M2 mecha image that exists without exceptions, so what would you do about it?

Where can we find other copies of these images? Where? Who?

Nanashi is far the only one who has the magazine with the original images. I so badly wish he can send us all copies for us to use.

This whole thing started with Nanashi posting those images. I wish he didn't, that way I would'nt have grown so impatient.

Better yet, I wish I didn't saying or post anything. I feel f***** up about the whole thing.

I tried looking elsewhere online, and I could find NO ONE.

So, I don't know what to do anymore...

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

(Please forget and forgive these posts. Thank you.)

Edited August 31, 2003 by CaptRico

Valkyrie · August 30, 2003

You say you have no choice, but you obviously do.

Like I just said (and you even quoted it), simply link to Nanashi's page. Theft is not necessary. Nor is pissing anyone off. So don't do it.

Have you ever noticed that even though Chris Baretta's resin 1/55 VF-1 heads are out of production and hard to find, none of MW's many resin casters have recasted them? It's not even something that's been discussed. It's simply a matter of respect. Another MW member created them, and no one is going to disrespect him by copying his work.

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

(Please forget and forgive these posts. Thank you.)

Edited August 31, 2003 by CaptRico

Phyrox · August 30, 2003

edit:

Just me babbling in bewilderment at this kind of behavior from an adult. Nothing you wanted to read.

Edited August 30, 2003 by Phyrox

trueblueeyes · August 30, 2003

Well, your options are on the table. Either link to his page or buy your own copy of the book. Can't find one? Too bad.

EXACTLY!! :angry: We should be thankful that Nanashi chooses to share these images with us. The least any of us can do is to show that thanks by respecting his wishes If you can't understand that, then I feel sorry for you. And I hope you can see the danger in your actions...Enough of this kind of complaining can make you want to just shut down a site and forget about it. <_< Been there, done that. I don't want to see that happen here. I hope you will make the right decision...NOT to post those images.

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

Well, I finally made a final decision:

Mr. Nanashi,

After sleeping on this thread's deal for a night, and thinking about this message I got from twick, I iwsh to extend my apologies (BIG TIME) for stealing your images. I now realize how wrong I was (even though I did had a point - at least, I thought I did).

I was so obsessed with getting those images to add to my M2 collection, that I didn't even realize I was disrespecting your wishes. And also, when I first saw your "Don't copy" notice, I quickly thought you were just being greety (I mean hey! Your site is THE ONLY ONE on the world-wide web that has posted these images - can you image how many M2 fans are willing to do ANYTHING to get these images as well?^^).

But, I just kept at that point all that time, that I didn't realize the truth of what I was really doing (even though I don't think it was illegal to leech them away - was it? :unsure: ).

I would finally like to say to everyone here I'm once again sorry for all the trouble I cause. You see, once I see something I don't like - that doesn't sound fair - I just jump right to these quick conclusions, and I just start fighting for those causes. Thus, I never do realize the truth in my actions until it's too late.

Well, I finally realized the truth of my actions here, and I feel terrible - almost like I kick someone in the head for no reason.

Nanashi - I've made my decision: I will happily RESPECT your request, and just post a link on my site to your VS-XS page.

I'm so sorry for making you so angry, please accept my apologies.

I still got the VS-XS images saved on my harddrive - and I don't plan on using them since they are yours.

Nanashi, I was a jerk, an idoit, and an obsessive loon. For that, I'm sorry. Please forgive me for everything that I've done to upset you.

Everyone, I've realized what I've done was wrong, and I should have just waited for Nanshi's first reply when I first ask if I could use those images.

I just grew impatient, and it led to choas.

Well, what's done is done. I'm going to post a link to Nanashi's page as by his request. However, I still have to decide weather or not I should post this link anyways...

I hope I didn't get anyone else here shoken up over this little argue, and I hope we can be friends, Nanashi, cause I don't want us to be fighting anymore.

I'll understand if you don't want me posting the images, and I'll happily just post a link to the page instead. I PROMISE.

You got my full attention, Nanashi, and for that, I'm thankful.

Let hope we don't get into another fight over these rare images again.

I would still to ask if anyone else out there knows where I can find the original scans of the VS-XS, so that I can post them without any trouble.

Does any out there know anyone else who has the original VS-XS scans and is willing to let me use them on my site?

If so, please rely at my addresses: mailto:chrisrgay@yahoo.com or at mailto:chrisricgay@comcast.net.

AGAIN, sorry for the trouble I caused.

Thank you for at elast letting me post a link, Nanashi, and at least I know you not keeping these personally to yourself.^^

Sincerely,

-Capt. Rico Sakara

twich · August 30, 2003

The name is "Twich" not "Twick" Sorry, just had to clear that up!

Larry Twichell

EDIT--I am glad that you have decided to come to the right conclusion, you have chosen wisely. Let this incident be a guide for your future actions both on the web and in your real life. Take Care

Edited August 30, 2003 by twich

Skull Leader · August 30, 2003

Rico,

you need to work hard at a couple of things..... Not only have you embarassed Nanashi, but you're making yourself look the fool with all of these rambling replies. You made a big deal out of something that shouldn't have even been brough to public light (any and all discussion between you and Nanashi should've been through private messages) instead, now ALL on the community boards know how you are.

Taking the images for your own personal PRIVATE use is one thing (I have the means of extracting pictures from websites that disable right-clicking anyway) ... BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST THEIR WORK, WHEN THEY'VE REQUESTED THAT WE DO NOT... fine, put them on your hard drive and examine them in all their glory at least have the decency to not say anything..... if others ask where they can view these, tell them where they can go and leave it at that.

Something else that really isn't helping your case is your use of grammar/spelling. If you want to provide a convincing argument, you really need to use correct grammar. Spelling is also a way we define people's character. If you spell sloppily, people aren't going to care much for what you say.

You really want to make things better? STOP... don't say another word about it. The world will move on and in time this will be forgotten. The longer you argue and post on this matter, the longer it will be drawn out until the mods lock the thread.

CaptRico · August 30, 2003

Rico,
you need to work hard at a couple of things..... Not only have you embarassed Nanashi, but you're making yourself look the fool with all of these rambling replies. You made a big deal out of something that shouldn't have even been brough to public light (any and all discussion between you and Nanashi should've been through private messages) instead, now ALL on the community boards know how you are.

Taking the images for your own personal PRIVATE use is one thing (I have the means of extracting pictures from websites that disable right-clicking anyway) ... BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST THEIR WORK, WHEN THEY'VE REQUESTED THAT WE DO NOT... fine, put them on your hard drive and examine them in all their glory at least have the decency to not say anything..... if others ask where they can view these, tell them where they can go and leave it at that.

Something else that really isn't helping your case is your use of grammar/spelling. If you want to provide a convincing argument, you really need to use correct grammar. Spelling is also a way we define people's character. If you spell sloppily, people aren't going to care much for what you say.

You really want to make things better? STOP... don't say another word about it. The world will move on and in time this will be forgotten. The longer you argue and post on this matter, the longer it will be drawn out until the mods lock the thread.

I can hardly disagree with you, Skull Leader.

I know going public with this was wrong - basically since I not use to using private messages.

Now that this has been resolve, LET'S FORGIVE AND FORGET.^^

I've learn my lesson on that one, and next time, I'll just ask Nanashi or anyone else if it's ok to post the images. I'll wait for a reply, and if it's NO, then I'll understand.

Man, I HATE MYSELF!><

I tell ya all, I SUCK. This is one reason why I don't like getting along with people outside of home - it just leads to choas.

But, I still got to learn that you got to get along with your follow men and women. (I always learn the hard way.)

Well, that's it. I'm done.

Sorry for embarassing you, Nanashi. Please forgive me. I'll respect your request andjust post a link to the page.

Hope all is forgive soon. I don't want to keep this sin on my conscious.

Now that this is over, I like to ask Nanashi one question:

Do you know where I can find these images else where? It would really mean a lot to me if you could at least answer me this, just to help me out in finding copies of my own...

Edited August 30, 2003 by CaptRico

Skull Leader · August 30, 2003

you just can't let it go, can you????

No one thinks you suck or anything... JUST LET IT GO... don't ask about the pictures, don't say anything about the pictures... on Nanashi's site or anywhere else.....just let it go. If you have to ask Nanashi a question, do it in private.

There is no need to reply to this... if you want to appologize, the best appology you can give at this point is to say nothing more on the matter.

David Hingtgen · August 30, 2003

Any chance we could turn this thread back to "wow, it's got 4 friggin huge airbrakes"? ('cuz you know, if it deployed them asymmetrically, it could be VERY effective for manuevering--unheard of in the real world AFAIK, but no reason it couldn't work, not with the incredibly complex computer-controls valks must have))

Lightning · August 30, 2003

I skipped most of it after i saw Capt. Rico and Nanashi going at it... (hey Rico, u should've just kept it to PM instead of "wasting" our (and the server's) time and space. going to PM would've been a lot more mature than what you showed a page ago)

(to DH and everyone else)

well since it has the airbrakes in each of the 4 directions, it should be possible to use in real life and could appear on some new Fighters in the future, especially since most of them are going to be able to SuperCruise (i.e. go supersonic without the use of Afterburners, for the non-informed of the newest jets) so that way they could manuver greatly (and immediately, like DH said). Heck, they could probably set up an F-16 to do the same if they changed the 'brakes on it.

L06

twich · August 30, 2003

Okay, stop beating on Capt Rico, the situation is solved, let's move on please.

Do you really think that they would be incorporated in future valks being as Kawamori did not design the VS-XS Valkyrie II? Speaking from a stand point of coolness, I think it would be hot to have that....I mean the VF-11 incorporates 2 airbrakes on the little thruster packs on the spine of the aircraft....I think that the incorporation of multiple airbrakes on a valk would be keen and give unparalleled maneuverablity, couple that with YF-21 like thrust vectoring control and you have yourself a mother of a valk!

I wonder how that would look?

Larry

ewilen · August 30, 2003

Wouldn't one suppose that at some point, given the high level of automation (over-)technology available for battroid mode, the aircraft would be designed to use all control surfaces intelligently, automatically, and with instant feedback/correction to optimally achieve whatever maneuver the pilot wants? More or less the way that the X-29 uses computers to achieve pseudo-stability in an inherently unstable (therefore highly maneuverable) design.

David Hingtgen · August 30, 2003

Reflecting upon this, I realized that that's actually (sort of) how the YF-23's unique and very cool control system worked. To yaw, it would put the flap down, and the adjacent aileron up. The ailerons and flaps were sized and positioned so that their aerodynamic effects equaled each other. Thus, the overall lift of the wing was unchanged (so no roll) but it did create a significant increase in drag, thus yawing the aircraft to one side. (Not having conventional rudders, nor thrust vectoring, this is what it did). And it looked cool too, for it would create a *contrail from one wing only*

B-2's also operate very similarly, having no tail whatsoever. They can split their elevons into upper and lower halves, thus creating drag on one side only.

Just FYI, an F-16's brakes are linked to each other up/down, and cannot deploy independently. (One jackscrew controls both---operation is very similar to a thrust reverser)

PS--I (as well as Knight26 I think) am a big fan of having as many methods of control as possible. Spoilers, ruddervators, asymmetric throttles (need engines placed off of a common axis if you want pitch control--generally only trijets can do this), canards, vectoring, airbrakes---sure it adds weight, but when your one all-purpose lightweight stab gets shot off or damaged, what are you going to do?

Edited August 30, 2003 by David Hingtgen

Uxi · August 31, 2003

The Metal Siren may have better combat performance in the anime, but IMO, it is an ugly, ugly Valk that looks like it's been cobbled together out of mis-matching parts.
The VF-2SS Valkyrie II and VF-2JA Icarus on the other hand are just so beautiful and sleek looking.

Graham

I agree on the VF-2SS and VF-2JA but still think the Metal Siren looks cool, too.

As far as the looks of the Metal Siren, I rather like them. Very Gundam-ish looking but not without reason. The head-sheild, for example and the other assorted weaponry (particularly the melee weapon thing that goes on the nose in fighter and gerwalk but on the arm in battroid for stabbing and that plasma ball effect thingy that destroid the Marduk cap ship). Seems to me to have everything a future advanced valk would have (well except for a fold booster, internal or no).

Though I'd prefer a head laser or 4.

Lightning · August 31, 2003

i've never seen a pic of the Metal Siren, anybody got one?

Lightning · August 31, 2003

ok, I've seen one now. it looks better in the High Output mode than the regular battroid.

my two only problems with it are

1) no head laser (and a fugly head to boot!)

2) that loooong pointy nose!

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