Why are the Arcadia toys so much more expensive than the old Yamato toys?

[ShadowVFX]

Just as the topic says. Whay are the prices of the Arcadia toys so much higher than the old Yamato stuff?

I went to Japan two years ago and got super lucky and found a used DX Chogokin Macross F Frontier VF-25G for about $85. Needless to say, I swooped on it. However, outside of this latest purchase, I haven't bought a transforming Macross toy since my visit to Anime Expo 2001, where I bought a 1/60 VF-1S (Roy Fokker) and a 1/48 VF-1J, both made by Yamato. I am going completely off memory here, but I think I spent ~$75 on the 1/60 model and ~$125 for the 1/48 model. I always felt that both of these models were extremely well made and the detail on the 1/48th model blew me away. I still have it sitting in Gerwalk mode in my diplay cabinet and love how it looks.

Back in 2013 and I was watching all these great new releases coming out and I started drooling with anticipation. However, once I saw the price point I recoiled in horror. Surely that can't be right? These things are the same size as the smaller Yamato toys, but they're nearly 3x the price I paid for mine!? What the heck?

After buying this used VF-25 in Japan, I just don't see where the price is justified. Yes, it's a nice model, but not lightyears better than the old Yamato models I have. Why on earth are the new toys literally 3x the cost of the older stuff that seems to be just about as good?

It's not like Yamato didn't have to also pay licensing fees, so why are the new toys so expensive? Is it because they know the "adult" fans have the cash and so they're going for the higher price-per-unit model?

[Zx31]

Because Arcadia is small (doesn't have the benefit of a large company like Bandai), production and labor costs are higher than 20 years ago, and they would prefer not to go out of business.

[jenius]

Yamato went bankrupt... so using them as a starting point is not great. Other than that though, I think you nailed it. It's a little supply vs. demand meets economies of scale. Arcadia does very small production runs and produce very few toys every year and yet they need to cover the costs of their entire operation based on those sales. That, coupled with the fact they're selling to a niche group of diehard collectors who have shown a willingness to spend top dollar, leads to their extravagant prices. 

If you want bang for your buck, go with Bandai's HMR line... but don't try to track down the old releases, they're long sold out and cost just as much as Arcadia products now.

[valhary]

I know there are a lot of versions go round 

but the sadness true Arcadia is more ambitious and cold company trying to justify the overpriced with the quality control and things like that but only want bigger profits
and I got it if they pay for the yamato molds and macross license can do it

however my anger is when try to lie us using a Mr K as a shield

[Sanity is Optional]

I'd just like to point out that Bandai's stuff tends to command one hell of a premium after release.

• $500 VF-31A
• $160-$170 HMR Strike VF-1S Roy/VF-1J Armored
• $350 VF-25G Renewal

The used VF-25G you got was probably not the renewal version, and got seriously reduced in value by the release of the renewals.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Sanity is Optional

[derex3592]

shameless plug -- If anyone is looking for reasonable deal on a renewal 25G with Supers and Tornado parts-- check my For Sale Thread! 

[treatment]

17 hours ago, ShadowVFX said:

Just as the topic says. Whay are the prices of the Arcadia toys so much higher than the old Yamato stuff?

I went to Japan two years ago and got super lucky and found a used DX Chogokin Macross F Frontier VF-25G for about $85. Needless to say, I swooped on it. However, outside of this latest purchase, I haven't bought a transforming Macross toy since my visit to Anime Expo 2001, where I bought a 1/60 VF-1S (Roy Fokker) and a 1/48 VF-1J, both made by Yamato. I am going completely off memory here, but I think I spent ~$75 on the 1/60 model and ~$125 for the 1/48 model. I always felt that both of these models were extremely well made and the detail on the 1/48th model blew me away. I still have it sitting in Gerwalk mode in my diplay cabinet and love how it looks.

Back in 2013 and I was watching all these great new releases coming out and I started drooling with anticipation. However, once I saw the price point I recoiled in horror. Surely that can't be right? These things are the same size as the smaller Yamato toys, but they're nearly 3x the price I paid for mine!? What the heck?

After buying this used VF-25 in Japan, I just don't see where the price is justified. Yes, it's a nice model, but not lightyears better than the old Yamato models I have. Why on earth are the new toys literally 3x the cost of the older stuff that seems to be just about as good?

It's not like Yamato didn't have to also pay licensing fees, so why are the new toys so expensive? Is it because they know the "adult" fans have the cash and so they're going for the higher price-per-unit model?

 

Higher cost and expense of doing business with foreign (Chinese?) factories and labor this time around than during the Yamato days, I'm guessing.  

I don't think Arcadia has the same factory-discounts and labor influence stuff like the old Yamato corp. Yamato was only about a 10yo or so company, anyway.

In contrast, Bandai either pretty much owns their toy factories or they have significant discounts and influences on their both their local and foreign factories/labor since they've been in business around since at least the 70's or so.

 

 

[borgified]

Do we need to bring this article up again? I think so...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2017/09/08/arcadia-talks-about-how-it-makes-the-best-macross-and-megazone-23-toys-out-there/#2346e8c2e974

Don't forget that Bandai has been doing other stuff besides Macross for many years like what @treatmenthas mentioned.

[WaferMouse]

18 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

The used VF-25G you got was probably not the renewal version, and got seriously reduced in value by the release of the renewals.

Yup, that's about the price I paid for my non-R RVF-25 at around the same time. In fact, if that 25G came from Jungle in Akihabara, they might even be from the same collector's squadron.

[Sanity is Optional]

7 minutes ago, WaferMouse said:

 Yup, that's about the price I paid for my non-R RVF-25 at around the same time. In fact, if that 25G came from Jungle in Akihabara, they might even be from the same collector's squadron.

Picked myself up a VF-25F super (non-renewal) at Mandarake for 15,000yen in 2015.

Actually my first Macross figure ever, not counting a beat to hell chunky monkey from a garage sale decades ago.

[ShadowVFX]

2 hours ago, WaferMouse said:

Yup, that's about the price I paid for my non-R RVF-25 at around the same time. In fact, if that 25G came from Jungle in Akihabara, they might even be from the same collector's squadron.

It wasn't from that store, but I did go to the Jungle store in Akihabara and bought some cheap Macross plastic model kits that were OOP.

I think the store I got the VF-25 at was in Nagoya, but I can't remember exactly. I saw a lot of Macross stuff in multiple stores during my trip, but that was the only time I could find one within my budget.

I love my 1/48th Yamato VF-1A. It's such a beautiful model. I really wish I had the money to buy more/other models from their line back in the early 2000's.

 

Quote

Do we need to bring this article up again? I think so...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2017/09/08/arcadia-talks-about-how-it-makes-the-best-macross-and-megazone-23-toys-out-there/#2346e8c2e974

Don't forget that Bandai has been doing other stuff besides Macross for many years like what @treatmenthas mentioned.

I read that article right before posting this. However, it's really just a propaganda piece who's focus is on making sure the reader knows just how cool the toy is and doesn't really explain the huge cost spike other than a single sentence where they say material and people costs have increased. I'm sure they have, but the Arcadia figures are smaller than the Yamato line and 3x the cost as they used to be. Even with labor cost increases and inflation, that number is still pretty out of scale.

But I suppose that if people are paying it and it's keeping them in business, then that's good for them. I would love for these "toys" to be more affordable so more people can enjoy them. Maybe after 2020 (or is it 2022?), when Harmony Gold finally loses the rights to Macross...maybe then we'll start seeing some things here in the states that won't cost an arm + leg. Yeah, it's probably not going to happen, but I can dream.

Edited August 14, 2018 by ShadowVFX

[Sanity is Optional]

I'd suggest Hi-Metal R, or non-renewal VF-25 figures if you want something affordable.

Alternatively the Bandai 1:72 kits for the VF-25, VF-27, VF-31, and SV-262 are pretty good (and fully transformable) if you don't mind putting in some time to build them.

[borgified]

Call me stupid... I literally just remembered this (don't know if you did read this in conjunction @ShadowVFX?) 

http://www.macrossworld.com/why-are-arcadia-products-so-expensive-by-mr-k/

 

 

[HardlyNever]

15 hours ago, borgified said:

Call me stupid... I literally just remembered this (don't know if you did read this in conjunction @ShadowVFX?) 

http://www.macrossworld.com/why-are-arcadia-products-so-expensive-by-mr-k/

 

 

tl;dr of that article: Production costs (especially in China) have gone up, and they haven't cut costs anywhere else.  They can't easily move to a new manufacturer with lower costs, as the skill needed to manufacture the toys is fairly high, as far as plastic toy manufacturing goes. 

The way he goes into detail about the production process implies that there is a lot of QA involved, as well.  But the topic about whether Arcadia has the appropriate QA level for their prices has been argued to death elsewhere on these forums, so I'm not going to get into that.  Most of the things he details seem like things that would be done at any high-end toy manufacturer.

I think people also forget that inflation is a thing, and different countries have different rates of inflation.  So while the cost increase has out-paced inflation for most of us in the West, that isn't necessarily true for places like China in the last 10 years.  I'm not saying it is entirely inflation, but it is a factor.

And last, let your wallet do the talking.  If you think Arcadia's prices are too high, then don't buy their products (or try to get them at a big discount).  That is your only real option.

[Arthurius]

because you will STFU and give your money!!!  Ie, you will still pay it (even if reluctantly sometimes), most of the times multiples, and beg them for more...  The wouldnt be able to make new products without you paying for it, right?

Now, the Bandai HMR line still works for me (cause i seem to STFU and pay for it...), and actually, better in terms of space!!!  Otherwise, if i really need bigger, it is still Bandai...  Arcadia is out of my league.

[skullmilitia]

From the old days of talking to MrK, most of Arcadia’s new projects are “because no one else would make them” reissues just help float the upfront R&D costs of the new molds. So all you guys buying the reissues are doing God’s work.

[Sanity is Optional]

It helps that some of the reissues are legitimately cheaper than secondary market prices.

Like the VF-0S Premium.

Funny enough, I think part of the complaints about gouging on the Premium SDF-1 and Max/Milia could have been reduced if they'd waited for aftermarket prices to spike above the expected sales price, rather than effectively competing with themselves. Yet we piss and moan about it.