Star Trek: Picard (CBS All-Access)

[Roy Focker]

It was a good episode in the fact that I was engaged the whole time but there some flaws.

Did Riker forget he once had sex with this week's guest star?

[sh9000]

Excellent episode 5.  Looking forward to next week.

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by sh9000

[azrael]

Shouldn't...

Spoiler

Ro's nose ridge be more pronounced? Is Michelle Forbes allergic to the prosthetic make-up used these days?  I seem to recall Bajoran nose ridges being very pronounced. 

I liked the episode seeing that it finally closed a open thread from 30-ish years ago.

[Thom]

Quibbles and slight niggles non-withstanding, this was a very good episode! I was pleasantly surprised to see Ro back, and her entire interaction with Picard was nicely done. For a second episode in a row, there was a charged, deeply meaningful interaction, as they were basically vetting each other while digging into their past. I loved the duality of one conversation serving two purposes.

As to her being back in Star Fleet Intelligence they are a little more shady that your average Star Fleet branch and would certainly have many uses for an agent with her background. And she serves as a good tie-in to the Warf/Raffi plot line.

Spoiler

Damn though, it was sad to see her go so soon! Still a damn good showing.

And what's happening to Jack?! That's something I really hope they don't stumble on, like the Burn.

Shipwise, I was okay with the look of the Intrepid, but I much prefer it's design forbear, the USS Wasp.

All in all , really impressed with these past two episodes. This is the story line I'd been waiting two seasons for!

Please, STP, keep. This. Up!!

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Thom

[sh9000]

 

 

[Roy Focker]

I didn't even notice the barely-there makeup.  My biggest concern is the mystery surrounding Jack. If there's any point where things could fall apart this would be it.

You what they could have done? That actor playing Picard's son could have easily played Picard in a series about the original Star Grazer.  He commanded that ship for 22 years. Could have an entire prequel series set during that time about Picard's first ship.

 

[sh9000]

 

[Lolicon]

Ep5 was another good episode.

This really is the show we should have gotten from the start.

If they can keep up this level of quality and not stumble in the second half of the season, then Picard will have deftly avoided becoming the worst Trek series ever. Sorry, Voyager! 

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, Lolicon said:

Ep5 was another good episode.

This really is the show we should have gotten from the start.

If they can keep up this level of quality and not stumble in the second half of the season, then Picard will have deftly avoided becoming the worst Trek series ever. Sorry, Voyager! 

Not to defend this series, but I think if they simply pretend S1 and 2 never existed, they could do something with it.

[sh9000]

 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Not to defend this series, but I think if they simply pretend S1 and 2 never existed, they could do something with it.

Perhaps... though I suspect Star Trek: Picard's third and final season wouldn't get nearly as much praise that way.

It's not great, or even particularly good, television being about on par with Nemesis or Insurrection.  Much of the praise it's getting is a product of the two previous seasons lowering everyone's expectations significantly.

[mechaninac]

13 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Perhaps... though I suspect Star Trek: Picard's third and final season wouldn't get nearly as much praise that way.

It's not great, or even particularly good, television being about on par with Nemesis or Insurrection.  Much of the praise it's getting is a product of the two previous seasons lowering everyone's expectations significantly.

Yeah, as they say: hunger is the best sauce...  Star Trek fans have been starved of anything edible for so long that even a reheated bowl of instant ramen will look and taste like a feast.

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Perhaps... though I suspect Star Trek: Picard's third and final season wouldn't get nearly as much praise that way.

It's not great, or even particularly good, television being about on par with Nemesis or Insurrection.  Much of the praise it's getting is a product of the two previous seasons lowering everyone's expectations significantly.

On the bright side: they do have Shaw.

[Lolicon]

Nothing says "true fan" like putting down the opinions of others because they don't agree with you. 

[Lolicon]

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Not to defend this series, but I think if they simply pretend S1 and 2 never existed, they could do something with it.

That's for the best. I do the same thing when I pretend there were no Matrix sequels.

[Thom]

15 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

On the bright side: they do have Shaw.

In a clinch, I would prefer Riker or Picard over Shaw.

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Perhaps... though I suspect Star Trek: Picard's third and final season wouldn't get nearly as much praise that way.

It's not great, or even particularly good, television being about on par with Nemesis or Insurrection.  Much of the praise it's getting is a product of the two previous seasons lowering everyone's expectations significantly.

 

2 hours ago, mechaninac said:

Yeah, as they say: hunger is the best sauce...  Star Trek fans have been starved of anything edible for so long that even a reheated bowl of instant ramen will look and taste like a feast.

Keeping in mind that the first two season were not 'stellar' the last two episodes have put them out to pasture! The writing in these two has been far above their usual par, and that's not just because the bar has been lowered. The first time I felt anything approaching the level of TNG has been these last two.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, mechaninac said:

Yeah, as they say: hunger is the best sauce...  Star Trek fans have been starved of anything edible for so long that even a reheated bowl of instant ramen will look and taste like a feast.

We've got Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks, so the fanbase hasn't exactly been starved for quality content for a while now.

People's impressions of Star Trek: Picard's third season are naturally going to be a relative judgement based on their experience with seasons one and two.  Since seasons one and two were unqualified disasters and some of the worst Trek ever produced according to review scores, it's only natural that the competent but still problematic season three is going to seem great by comparison.  It's still very problematic writing full of plot holes and pretty mediocre television by the standards of the franchise as a whole, but if you're looking at the Picard series on its own...

 

 

23 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

On the bright side: they do have Shaw.

... but for how much longer?

More than any other title, Star Trek: Picard seems to like killing named secondary characters to build drama.  Season one killed off Icheb, Hugh, Dr. Bruce Maddox, Data (again), and the show's namesake Jean-Luc Picard.  Season two killed off Elnor (temporarily), Rios (effectively), Dr. Agnes Jurati (by fusion), the alternate Borg Queen (by fusion), all of the other Borg Queens in the multiverse (by destiny), and Q.  Season three's already killed Ro Laren, but there's still half a season left and we're looking at a ship full of legacy characters who are here for their last hurrah.  I don't think any character could be called safe at this point. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Thom said:

Keeping in mind that the first two season were not 'stellar' the last two episodes have put them out to pasture! The writing in these two has been far above their usual par, and that's not just because the bar has been lowered. The first time I felt anything approaching the level of TNG has been these last two.

Undeniably, season three as a whole and the last two episodes in particular just sort of leave you wondering "Where was THIS two seasons ago?".

[Thom]

15 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Undeniably, season three as a whole and the last two episodes in particular just sort of leave you wondering "Where was THIS two seasons ago?".

I know, right! And that takes us back to @pengbuzz's comment about ignoring the first two. But, though it took a while to get here*, at least season 3 is living up to what we had hoped the whole series had been from the start. 

 

* though there is no guarantee this level of writing and plot will survive the next episode or two...

[Dobber]

Kind of funny when you think about it, as the first 2 seasons of TNG are by and large pretty bad too.

Chris

[Lolicon]

7 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Kind of funny when you think about it, as the first 2 seasons of TNG are by and large pretty bad too.

Chris

Yeah a lot of the "new Trek" haters seem to view "old Trek" through rose colored goggles, as if previous Trek shows weren't pretty awful a lot of the time too.

[Seto Kaiba]

22 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Kind of funny when you think about it, as the first 2 seasons of TNG are by and large pretty bad too.

History may not repeat itself, but it sure does like to rhyme. 🤷‍♂️

The news that was coming out of CBS around the time Picard was in production suggest that the problem may even have the same cause.  Namely, producers with too much power over the production riding roughshod over the writer's room and refusing to compromise or workshop their ideas.  A huge portion of the TNG's issues in its first two seasons were the result of Gene Roddenberry, and later his lawyer Leonard Maizlish, wrangling full creative control over the series and instituting bizarre creative diktats that drove the writers bonkers and led to many of them quitting.  The CBS/ViacomCBS writers room was apparently not a very nice place to be in the late 2010s, with writers and producers both getting dismissed by the network over unprofessional conduct.

It's kind of ironic in a way, since The Next Generation was seen as a big risk when it got green-lit, with Patrick Stewart even refusing to unpack his suitcase because he was so sure it would fail, but Picard was supposed to be an idiot proof recovery plan for the franchise after Discovery's first season bombed.

 

15 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Yeah a lot of the "new Trek" haters seem to view "old Trek" through rose colored goggles, as if previous Trek shows weren't pretty awful a lot of the time too.

3 hours ago, Lolicon said:

Nothing says "true fan" like putting down the opinions of others because they don't agree with you. 

 

[pengbuzz]

56 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

History may not repeat itself, but it sure does like to rhyme. 🤷‍♂️

The news that was coming out of CBS around the time Picard was in production suggest that the problem may even have the same cause.  Namely, producers with too much power over the production riding roughshod over the writer's room and refusing to compromise or workshop their ideas.  A huge portion of the TNG's issues in its first two seasons were the result of Gene Roddenberry, and later his lawyer Leonard Maizlish, wrangling full creative control over the series and instituting bizarre creative diktats that drove the writers bonkers and led to many of them quitting.  The CBS/ViacomCBS writers room was apparently not a very nice place to be in the late 2010s, with writers and producers both getting dismissed by the network over unprofessional conduct.

It's kind of ironic in a way, since The Next Generation was seen as a big risk when it got green-lit, with Patrick Stewart even refusing to unpack his suitcase because he was so sure it would fail, but Picard was supposed to be an idiot proof recovery plan for the franchise after Discovery's first season bombed.

 

 

Well, while I'm seeing a glimmer or two here and there of stuff that isn't as bad as it was S1 and 2, I don't exactly have my hopes up here. I did say:

13 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Not to defend this series, but I think if they simply pretend S1 and 2 never existed, they could do something with it.

That said: that "something" I wouldn't call "Trek is Back". It's kind of like someone who's been on a 1-week bender: at one point,t hey may get up and keep their balance for a bit. That doesn't mean they're sober.

Still think Shaw deserved better than an idiotic death.

[sh9000]

 

 

[sh9000]

 

Looking forward to episode 6 tomorrow.

[Roy Focker]

It was good. I don't want to say really good because nostalgia is influencing my view. There was a couple did they forget those moments? I think they're ignoring stuff from the previous seasons.

A bunch of Easter Eggs and it ends with us finding out what the stolen secret weapon is.🙄

[azrael]

Spoiler

So let me guess, this has something to do with Picard's Irumodic Syndrome diagnosis? Picard's dead body isn't a viable specimen to extract so they need a live host?

Also, Section 31 are a bunch of grave diggers. Literal grave diggers.

 

[Dobber]

My guess…

Spoiler

These Changelings want to return the favor of the Federation using a biological weapon against them, since it was brought up a few times now, by making one of their own. Using Picard Irumodic Syndrome as Azrael pointed out above. Maybe even with the cure, some of them have been adversely changed as a result of either exposure or an adverse reaction to the antidote. 🤷🏻‍♂️

That being said I enjoyed this episode quite a bit too. Don’t care about the first 2 seasons. Minus a few details….namely Picard being dead…this season can mostly stand on its own and AFAIC  is a worthy successor to TNG. Hope they can stick the landing .

Chris

Edited March 23, 2023 by Dobber

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, azrael said:

  Hide contents

So let me guess, this has something to do with Picard's Irumodic Syndrome diagnosis? Picard's dead body isn't a viable specimen to extract so they need a live host?

Also, Section 31 are a bunch of grave diggers. Literal grave diggers.

 

My question:

Spoiler

I wonder if they're going to try to put Picard back in his old body? O.o

 

[Dobber]

I also…

Spoiler

Found it creepy that they have stored the remains of both Picard and Kirk! For what purpose? A bit disturbing, but that was the point I gather.

Chris

[pengbuzz]

28 minutes ago, Dobber said:

I also…

  Hide contents

Found it creepy that they have stored the remains of both Picard and Kirk! For what purpose? A bit disturbing, but that was the point I gather.

Chris

Wait, what?!!!

[Hikuro]

42 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Wait, what?!!!

Mhm, it's a blink and you miss it, but it's there.

The museum was a ton of easter eggs. Several I REALLY enjoyed including a little Enterprise series moment we never got to see on screen. And of course a little reference to Voyage Home. 

[Seto Kaiba]

Ah, I was afraid of this... the quality of the last two episodes didn't last.  We're back on that weak sh*t.

Weirdly, this episode isn't just rife with excuse plot level writing... it seems determined to undo events not only from previous shows but from Picard itself.

 

Spoiler

Vadic has to remind the audience that she's The Bad Guy, so not only does she talk like something out of a terrible fanfic she has to resort to that old standby of casually having a member of her crew vaporized for a trivial slight.

Jack Crusher conveniently has a terminal case of the same extremely rare neurological syndrome that Jean-Luc Picard died from in season one, despite Picard's own physician being unable to diagnose him with it using the far better technology available on Earth.  Why does Jack Crusher, who has no special attachment whatsoever to Earth or to Ten Forward, call up a hologram of Guinan's bar to drink in?  He could've picked literally anywhere and he picked a place that ONLY has significance to Jean-Luc Picard.  Jean-Luc assures Jack that he's got plenty of years ahead of him yet, which means he's almost certainly dead meat.

Worf joins the cast reunion proper and brings Raffi with him.  Data's still dead, so Worf has an out-of-character moment to be Excessive Precision Guy who reminds everyone exactly how long it's been since they last saw each other.  We also get a reminder that nobody in this show is allowed to be happy or have a functional relationship, since the show's one official couple (Seven and Raffi) have broken up after they wasted a fair amount of screen time on them being in a relationship in previous seasons.

They're off to raid... *checks notes* a Daystrom Institute... black site?!  

WHAT. 

The Daystrom Institute of Technology was a research university.  A research university that was home to the Federation's premiere robotics and artificial intelligence think tank, among other things.  In what world does a top four-year college and graduate school have a secret campus where it builds and tests superweapons?!

It's even guarded by an "astonishingly lethal" AI security system that is defeated with comical ease just as it's threatening to get killy.  It's allegedly where Section 31 stores all of its dangerous toys.  It's basically just a vault full of callbacks to previous titles... a thalaron generator from Nemesis, a Genesis Device from Wrath of Khan, Captain Kirk's dead body, tribbles, Dr. Moriarty, Brent Spiner's latest identical Soong...

and while half the crew is doing that, half the crew goes off to burglarize another vault of callbacks to previous shows in the form of the fleet museum so we can get a couple minutes of screen time for Levar Burton.

We get the reveal that they've killed off Brent Spiner's season one identical Dr. Soong offscreen, and Starfleet apparently decided to finish his work building another android with his appearance... this one being an agglomeration of all the previous Soong type androids for some reason.  So it's Data, Lore, Lal, etc. all mixed into one.  

Jack Crusher and Sydney La Forge steal the cloaking device from Kirk's HMS Bounty offscreen and somehow install it onto the USS Titan-A without anyone noticing until the deed was done.  Geordi asks Picard if he knows how many treaties Picard just broke... and the answer to that question should be "zero".  The only treaty preventing Starfleet from developing or operating cloaking devices was the Treaty of Algeron... a treaty between the Federation and the now-dissolved Romulan Star Empire.  Moreover, why is this century-plus old cloaking device still effective?  

Riker gets captured, and they abduct Not!Data from Daystrom's Not!Area51.  Not!Data's real name is apparently "M-5-10" because we couldn't get away without another easter egg.  Apparently the Changelings stole Picard's corpse?  In what way is that even a weapon?  He was like a century old, not in great health, and quite honestly not remotely useful for anything.  Starfleet security's interrogation manual has apparently expanded to simply beating prisoners now.  He's rescued by Vadic's people, who take him prisoner themselves and reveal they've got Deanna Troi as a prisoner too.

 

I have to say, I'm oddly impressed.  This is even dumber than what I expected for the reveals surrounding Moriarty and Brent Spiner's new character.  The one thing that lives up (or down) to expectations is that nobody is ever happy to see Picard.  We can now technically say that list extends to Picard himself... again, if we're counting Nemesis.  

[Mommar]

Jesus Christ, that Museum scene was like the Red Letter Media review of The Force Awakens was used as an actual plot-point.  "Tie Fighters!  Light Sabers!"

 

35 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, I was afraid of this... the quality of the last two episodes didn't last.  We're back on that weak sh*t.

Weirdly, this episode isn't just rife with excuse plot level writing... it seems determined to undo events... from Picard itself.

So they got it 50% right.

[Lolicon]

7 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

It was good. I don't want to say really good because nostalgia is influencing my view. There was a couple did they forget those moments? I think they're ignoring stuff from the previous seasons.

A bunch of Easter Eggs and it ends with us finding out what the stolen secret weapon is.🙄

I agree it was enjoyable. While I've actually enjoyed this season so far (a trait sorely lacking in previous seasons), I wouldn't put it on the same level as DS9 or the best of TNG. Then again those shows have 20+ years at their backs, so expecting any series to immediately reach the same level as them is asking a bit much.

And yeah, there's the nostalgia factor. It can easily detract if they go overboard, but I'm willing to cut a little slack if this is going to be the TNG cast's swan song. I'd prefer this over Nemesis being the last we see of this crew.

Still, four more episodes is plenty of time for them to completely f*** it up.

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, I was afraid of this... the quality of the last two episodes didn't last.  We're back on that weak sh*t.

Weirdly, this episode isn't just rife with excuse plot level writing... it seems determined to undo events not only from previous shows but from Picard itself.

 

  Hide contents

Vadic has to remind the audience that she's The Bad Guy, so not only does she talk like something out of a terrible fanfic she has to resort to that old standby of casually having a member of her crew vaporized for a trivial slight.

Jack Crusher conveniently has a terminal case of the same extremely rare neurological syndrome that Jean-Luc Picard died from in season one, despite Picard's own physician being unable to diagnose him with it using the far better technology available on Earth.  Why does Jack Crusher, who has no special attachment whatsoever to Earth or to Ten Forward, call up a hologram of Guinan's bar to drink in?  He could've picked literally anywhere and he picked a place that ONLY has significance to Jean-Luc Picard.  Jean-Luc assures Jack that he's got plenty of years ahead of him yet, which means he's almost certainly dead meat.

Worf joins the cast reunion proper and brings Raffi with him.  Data's still dead, so Worf has an out-of-character moment to be Excessive Precision Guy who reminds everyone exactly how long it's been since they last saw each other.  We also get a reminder that nobody in this show is allowed to be happy or have a functional relationship, since the show's one official couple (Seven and Raffi) have broken up after they wasted a fair amount of screen time on them being in a relationship in previous seasons.

They're off to raid... *checks notes* a Daystrom Institute... black site?!  

WHAT. 

The Daystrom Institute of Technology was a research university.  A research university that was home to the Federation's premiere robotics and artificial intelligence think tank, among other things.  In what world does a top four-year college and graduate school have a secret campus where it builds and tests superweapons?!

It's even guarded by an "astonishingly lethal" AI security system that is defeated with comical ease just as it's threatening to get killy.  It's allegedly where Section 31 stores all of its dangerous toys.  It's basically just a vault full of callbacks to previous titles... a thalaron generator from Nemesis, a Genesis Device from Wrath of Khan, Captain Kirk's dead body, tribbles, Dr. Moriarty, Brent Spiner's latest identical Soong...

and while half the crew is doing that, half the crew goes off to burglarize another vault of callbacks to previous shows in the form of the fleet museum so we can get a couple minutes of screen time for Levar Burton.

We get the reveal that they've killed off Brent Spiner's season one identical Dr. Soong offscreen, and Starfleet apparently decided to finish his work building another android with his appearance... this one being an agglomeration of all the previous Soong type androids for some reason.  So it's Data, Lore, Lal, etc. all mixed into one.  

Jack Crusher and Sydney La Forge steal the cloaking device from Kirk's HMS Bounty offscreen and somehow install it onto the USS Titan-A without anyone noticing until the deed was done.  Geordi asks Picard if he knows how many treaties Picard just broke... and the answer to that question should be "zero".  The only treaty preventing Starfleet from developing or operating cloaking devices was the Treaty of Algeron... a treaty between the Federation and the now-dissolved Romulan Star Empire.  Moreover, why is this century-plus old cloaking device still effective?  

Riker gets captured, and they abduct Not!Data from Daystrom's Not!Area51.  Not!Data's real name is apparently "M-5-10" because we couldn't get away without another easter egg.  Apparently the Changelings stole Picard's corpse?  In what way is that even a weapon?  He was like a century old, not in great health, and quite honestly not remotely useful for anything.  Starfleet security's interrogation manual has apparently expanded to simply beating prisoners now.  He's rescued by Vadic's people, who take him prisoner themselves and reveal they've got Deanna Troi as a prisoner too.

 

I have to say, I'm oddly impressed.  This is even dumber than what I expected for the reveals surrounding Moriarty and Brent Spiner's new character.  The one thing that lives up (or down) to expectations is that nobody is ever happy to see Picard.  We can now technically say that list extends to Picard himself... again, if we're counting Nemesis.  

 

Spoiler

Well, since they have Picard's original body, they can now recreate that scene I did as a one-shot comic a bit ago, where Picard confronts himself. :D

 

Spoiler

I also hope they don't revive Kirk so he can steal the E-A and save everybody.