Star Trek: Picard (CBS All-Access)

[sh9000]

 

[Thom]

I liked it overall, but I don't know how I feel about Plummer as the main villain. Came off a bit campy. Hopefully the full season will give her more depth.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, sh9000 said:

 

So... that was a thing that I watched.

I have no idea what the hell it was, though.  If I had to guess based on the content of that trailer, I would say either Patrick Stewart or the rest of the writers room are on a mission to burn what remains of TNG to the ground in a fit of pique after seeing Picard's reviews.  Either that or it's a cry for help.  There's nothing sane about repeatedly writing yourself in scenarios where everyone hates you and you and your friends are miserable and likely to die horribly.

Jean-Luc Picard was a consummate diplomat.  Why do so very many people seem to harbor murderous hatred for him now that he's like a hundred and a robot?

The cast reunion the showrunners swore Picard wouldn't become aside, are they just grenade-fishing for loose ends to tie up for fanservice's sake?  Lore and Moriarty?  Those two were done to death back in TNG.

[derex3592]

Yeeeeeeh.....that just reeeeks of desperation honestly... Moriarty and Lore? Seriously? 

[azrael]

On the bright side, the Odyssey-class is now canon.

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So... that was a thing that I watched.

I have no idea what the hell it was, though.  If I had to guess based on the content of that trailer, I would say either Patrick Stewart or the rest of the writers room are on a mission to burn what remains of TNG to the ground in a fit of pique after seeing Picard's reviews.  Either that or it's a cry for help.  There's nothing sane about repeatedly writing yourself in scenarios where everyone hates you and you and your friends are miserable and likely to die horribly.

Jean-Luc Picard was a consummate diplomat.  Why do so very many people seem to harbor murderous hatred for him now that he's like a hundred and a robot?

The cast reunion the showrunners swore Picard wouldn't become aside, are they just grenade-fishing for loose ends to tie up for fanservice's sake?  Lore and Moriarty?  Those two were done to death back in TNG.

 

3 hours ago, derex3592 said:

Yeeeeeeh.....that just reeeeks of desperation honestly... Moriarty and Lore? Seriously? 

 

What's next:

- We find Tam Elbrun and Tin Man got trapped in a warp-fault?

- Sanska's planet turned into a gigantic brothel and she blames Data and Picard for ever replying to her message?

- The Bringolds managed to bottle their own whiskey and Romulan Ale distributors are trying to horn in on their action?

- The Binars run out of numbers and Picard and gang have to make up new ones for them?

- Kivas Fajo escaped from prison and wants to rebuild his collection?

- Admiral Jellico finally pulls the proverbial broomhandle from his aft section?

[JB0]

13 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

What's next:

- We find Tam Elbrun and Tin Man got trapped in a warp-fault?

Warp faults are sort of a thing, actually. One of the NexGen episodes(Force of Nature seems to be the title) they found out high-warp travel damages the boundary between realspace and subspace, and can actually cause it to tear open so subspace spills out into realspace.

[Hikuro]

6 hours ago, azrael said:

On the bright side, the Odyssey-class is now canon.

That was probably the only thing that made me giddy. I like the Odyssey class, makes me hopeful we'll get an official model kit or a playmates set someday. 

[Thom]

I actually don't like the Odyssey class. Just something about it makes me wish hard for the old Sovereign. I think it's just too many swoopy lines and curves. So I'm glad they're using this new Titan, if not the Stargazer.

As to the show, I'm going to watch and enjoy, cause heck, I'm up for watchin the old crew limp about, and it ain't Discovery!🤪

Edited October 9, 2022 by Thom

[lechuck]

It had to be a new Enterprise with a new letter tacked on it.... and so a little less than 30 years of service for the Enterprise-E this time around?🙄 Pretty lame decision by the producers if you ask me, would have been more refreshing to just stick with the Sovereign-class.

I don't mind the Odyssey-class (not my favourite), but I'm more annoyed that they couldn't even come up with an original design for the successor ship. Reusing designs from a video game or borrowing from kitbashes is basically the designers declaring bankruptcy at their profession.

[Thom]

1 hour ago, lechuck said:

It had to be a new Enterprise with a new letter tacked on it.... and so a little less than 30 years of service for the Enterprise-E this time around?🙄 Pretty lame decision by the producers if you ask me, would have been more refreshing to just stick with the Sovereign-class.

I don't mind the Odyssey-class (not my favourite), but I'm more annoyed that they couldn't even come up with an original design for the successor ship. Reusing designs from a video game or borrowing from kitbashes is basically the designers declaring bankruptcy at their profession.

I'd take the new Titan or Stargazer over season 2's copy/paste fleet any day of the week!  And the new Titan is from Bill Krause, who is making some awesome ship designs based on the ST universe. Granted, the Titan is based on his TMP-era Shangri-la, and they just asked him to update the design, so I wonder what he could come up with if they'd asked him for a truly post TNG style?

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, lechuck said:

It had to be a new Enterprise with a new letter tacked on it.... and so a little less than 30 years of service for the Enterprise-E this time around?🙄 Pretty lame decision by the producers if you ask me, would have been more refreshing to just stick with the Sovereign-class.

I don't mind the Odyssey-class (not my favourite), but I'm more annoyed that they couldn't even come up with an original design for the successor ship. Reusing designs from a video game or borrowing from kitbashes is basically the designers declaring bankruptcy at their profession.

Yeah; why is it the Excelsior class could serve more than a century, but not the Sovereign? What did they build it out of, tin foil?

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

What's next:

Maybe the new villain is a former events coordinator from that resort Picard stayed in on Risa, determined to take her revenge for his stubborn insistence on doing nothing but reading.

Really, they're running out of anyone who has any real reason to even dislike Picard never mind feel murderous rage towards him and the Federation.  The Next Generation was too episodic for Jean-Luc Picard or the crew of the Enterprise-D to gather much in the way of recurring nemises (nemesi?) or offend anyone badly enough that they'd come screaming out of nowhere to try to destroy the Federation and murder him.  He only really managed a few people who had something against him personally and they're all either dead or in such disgrace that they can't really get at him personally never mind try to destroy the entire Federation.

This villain either has to be a "remember the new guy?" or this crazy lady is a Son'a/Ba'ku come for revenge for some reason.  Are we looking at Ru'afo's mum or something?

 

13 hours ago, JB0 said:

Warp faults are sort of a thing, actually. One of the NexGen episodes(Force of Nature seems to be the title) they found out high-warp travel damages the boundary between realspace and subspace, and can actually cause it to tear open so subspace spills out into realspace.

That problem ended up getting magically solved offscreen and then never mentioned again.

(Voyager's VG warp nacelles were supposed to be the fix, at least initially.)

 

3 hours ago, lechuck said:

It had to be a new Enterprise with a new letter tacked on it.... and so a little less than 30 years of service for the Enterprise-E this time around?🙄

Two in one season... this means that, somewhere along the way, both Will Riker's USS Titan and Worf's USS Enterprise-E were destroyed somehow offscreen.

Why do the writers have it in for everyone and everything like this?  Everyone MUST be miserable and haunted and broken and nothing familiar from better days is allowed to exist.

 

3 hours ago, lechuck said:

Pretty lame decision by the producers if you ask me, would have been more refreshing to just stick with the Sovereign-class.

I don't mind the Odyssey-class (not my favourite), but I'm more annoyed that they couldn't even come up with an original design for the successor ship. Reusing designs from a video game or borrowing from kitbashes is basically the designers declaring bankruptcy at their profession.

My question would be more why they didn't use the name of the Odyssey-class ship Picard commanded before retiring... the USS Verity.

The tie-in/prequel comic that set Picard up had him commanding the USS Verity as his flagship for the Romulan evacuation.  Why not just use THAT one?  

 

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Yeah; why is it the Excelsior class could serve more than a century, but not the Sovereign? What did they build it out of, tin foil?

It's just lazy writing.  Destroying the Enterprise once was a sucker-punch to the audience who were certain the writers would never do it.

Past that point, it became an expectation that the writers WOULD do it because they went and established that practically every Enterprise ends its service in a violent demise.

[sh9000]

 

 

[Thom]

I watched the trailer again, and I don't see these moments where they are broken or miserable. Under duress, certainly.

As for the new ships, part of it is us. What is one of the main things that we all look for when they come out with a Star Trek series or movie? New ships.

[Dobber]

Are the overall events of ST Online considered canon?

Chris

[JB0]

20 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Are the overall events of ST Online considered canon?

Chris

They WERE, but I think they're being ignored now. 

50 minutes ago, Thom said:

As for the new ships, part of it is us. What is one of the main things that we all look for when they come out with a Star Trek series or movie? New ships.

Honestly, I'm here for the adventures of an intrepid band of explorers going on thought-provoking adventure, with occasional ridiculous detours to the Tribble-verse. And the Enterprise is one of those characters. When the original 1701 blew up on the TV(I was too young to see Search for Spock in theaters), it was like one of the other members of the cast had died to bring back Spock.

When the 1701-D went out on the big screen(I WAS old enough to see Generations in theaters!), it was a big deal, though overshadowed by Kirk's death. But Kirk almost immediately came back in the novels, the Enterprise-D stayed dead.

...

And an entire era died with her, as the ships that followed were of a more militaristic bent. The -E felt like a warship, and it didn't help that we were introduced to her in Star Trek: The Action Movie.

 

 

If an Enterprise is going to die, it deserves to die onscreen.

Edited October 10, 2022 by JB0

[Seto Kaiba]

13 minutes ago, Thom said:

I watched the trailer again, and I don't see these moments where they are broken or miserable. Under duress, certainly.

It's Star Trek: Picard... everyone being broken and miserable is this show's one prevailing theme.

Everyone apart from Worf, Geordi, and Beverly has already had at least one season of trauma and misery.

 

13 minutes ago, Thom said:

As for the new ships, part of it is us. What is one of the main things that we all look for when they come out with a Star Trek series or movie? New ships.

Very true, though since Star Trek fans have responded very negatively overall to the Kurtzman NuTrek original designs and some of the best-received fan videos are shops which replace the Kurtzman designs with classic ones, you'd think they'd have tried a different tack.

Compare the reception to Kurtzman's copypasta armada in season one with the flotilla of updated TNG ships from STO in season two.

This is one case where they could literally have done NO new ships and actually gotten praised for it.  Instead, replacing the extremely well-received animated USS Titan with this fugly kitbash called the Titan-A and introducing a new Enterprise for no real reason just smacks of laziness.  They don't want to put in the effort to get fans invested in a new ship so they're trying to borrow the fanbase's affection for an older one by borrowing the name.

 

1 minute ago, Dobber said:

Are the overall events of ST Online considered canon?

Not to Trek proper.

Back before NuTrek launched, I know Star Trek Online was at least semi-officially considered to be its own self-contained alternate universe opposite the Relaunch Novelverse.  I don't believe that position has changed, or at least if it has I haven't seen any official statement about it.

NuTrek has been borrowing starship designs from STO because fans dragged Kurtzman and Chabon hard for the copypasta armada of one badly CG'd ship Riker shows up with at the end of Picard season one.

[Dobber]

So I am of a mixed mind regarding the ships. My thought are that I agree with Thom in that I LOVE the ships especially Federation Starships. I’m not sure why but they have just resonated with me since childhood, likely due to my love of the Enterprise. So I do look forward to new designs and ship classes. That being said I also agree with the constant new type of ship being shown that any impact to a loss or any class consistency/ success seems to be lost.  The Miranda and Excelsior classes and their offshoots seem to be extremely successful and maybe to a lesser extent the Akira class but now we never really see any thing but new new new. Like every class is just a one off ship design…all of this is likely due to computer modeling instead of having to build physical models. So productions can just go wild. 
In universe explanations could be:

a) Space and the Federation is extremely vast and a variety of ship classes and types is more viable for all the different types of need

b) The Federation is just off of 2 major conflicts, the Klingon War and then the Dominion War, so they need to rebuild their massive losses and that’s why there are so many new classes. Not just from shear attrition but also the surviving vessels may just be beat down so much that they are better off mothballed, and also lessons learned from those conflicts.

c) Maybe different Federation member worlds build ships to Federation spec, but with their own species design ethos to them so you get familiar Federation looks bit in different ways.

just my thoughts

Chris

[TangledThorns]

Trailer was decent but the last season lowered the bar significantly.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Dobber said:

That being said I also agree with the constant new type of ship being shown that any impact to a loss or any class consistency/ success seems to be lost.

To be frank, that's more a symptom of the underlying problem.

The problem in Star Trek: Picard is that not that we're seeing a lot of new starship classes.  After all, Starfleet had a rough time in the 2370s and the deficiencies in the many older classes of ship leftover from the late 23rd century were thrown into sharp relief in the Klingon War in 2372, the Borg invasion in 2373, and the Dominion War from 2373-2375.  The actual problem is more that what we're seeing here in the season three trailer is needless replacements for ships that were still practically new.

Destroying the Enterprise was shocking the first time it happened in Star Trek III: the Search for Spock, but it'd already lost practically all of its sting when the Enterprise-D ended her extremely brief service life jobbing in a match against an obsolete Klingon Bird-of-Prey.  It deteriorated to a meme when First Contact was incredibly blase about self-destructing a brand-new Enterprise-E.  Learning that the Enterprise-E didn't even make to 30 years in service and there's already a new Enterprise-F is just the very definition of anticlimax.  That's made worse by the fact that Picard's final season is set on the Titan-A. 

There was NO REASON to replace the USS Titan design already being used in Lower Decks.  NONE.  It was incredibly well-received by the fans and the Titan would only have about twenty years of service under her belt at the time of Picard's final season.  Starfleet ships are designed to last for a century or more.  Riker's USS Titan somehow got blown up very shortly after being launched but somehow also acquitted itself so well that a new ship with a registry suffix was commissioned in her honor.  That's a thing reserved for Starfleet's most celebrated, most accomplished starships.  So instead of the gorgeous USS Titan design fans waited a literal decade to see onscreen, we have this fugly kitbash that looks a good century older than it allegedly is.

 

3 hours ago, Dobber said:

The Miranda and Excelsior classes and their offshoots seem to be extremely successful and maybe to a lesser extent the Akira class but now we never really see any thing but new new new. Like every class is just a one off ship design…all of this is likely due to computer modeling instead of having to build physical models. So productions can just go wild. 

Nah, we saw a BUNCH of Inquiry-class ships in the first season.

An entire fleet, in fact.  But it was such a lulzily awful scene because of bad writing and terrible CG that left the low-poly, low-detail "fleet" looking like exactly what it was: blatantly copy-pasting one ship model and texture fifty times.

[Dobber]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

To be frank, that's more a symptom of the underlying problem.

The problem in Star Trek: Picard is that not that we're seeing a lot of new starship classes.  After all, Starfleet had a rough time in the 2370s and the deficiencies in the many older classes of ship leftover from the late 23rd century were thrown into sharp relief in the Klingon War in 2372, the Borg invasion in 2373, and the Dominion War from 2373-2375.  The actual problem is more that what we're seeing here in the season three trailer is needless replacements for ships that were still practically new.

Destroying the Enterprise was shocking the first time it happened in Star Trek III: the Search for Spock, but it'd already lost practically all of its sting when the Enterprise-D ended her extremely brief service life jobbing in a match against an obsolete Klingon Bird-of-Prey.  It deteriorated to a meme when First Contact was incredibly blase about self-destructing a brand-new Enterprise-E.  Learning that the Enterprise-E didn't even make to 30 years in service and there's already a new Enterprise-F is just the very definition of anticlimax.  That's made worse by the fact that Picard's final season is set on the Titan-A. 

There was NO REASON to replace the USS Titan design already being used in Lower Decks.  NONE.  It was incredibly well-received by the fans and the Titan would only have about twenty years of service under her belt at the time of Picard's final season.  Starfleet ships are designed to last for a century or more.  Riker's USS Titan somehow got blown up very shortly after being launched but somehow also acquitted itself so well that a new ship with a registry suffix was commissioned in her honor.  That's a thing reserved for Starfleet's most celebrated, most accomplished starships.  So instead of the gorgeous USS Titan design fans waited a literal decade to see onscreen, we have this fugly kitbash that looks a good century older than it allegedly is.

 

Nah, we saw a BUNCH of Inquiry-class ships in the first season.

An entire fleet, in fact.  But it was such a lulzily awful scene because of bad writing and terrible CG that left the low-poly, low-detail "fleet" looking like exactly what it was: blatantly copy-pasting one ship model and texture fifty times.

Maybe the E-E was pretty banged up from Nemesis and the Dominion war and she was prematurely “aging”. That the ships of that time period, like we both said, had a rough go of it one way or another and would require near complete rebuilds to be at 100% again. So Star Fleet  just decided to scrap many of them. 
The Titan, though, I completely agree with. They should have just used a different name. Stargazer, Defiant, and Excelsior didn’t even warrant registry Carryover. What did the Titan do for that honor?  We know Enterprise and Voyager have that honor. Any other ships we know of?

Chris

Edited October 10, 2022 by Dobber

[Seto Kaiba]

20 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Maybe the E-E was pretty banged up from Nemesis and the Dominion war and she was prematurely “aging”. That the ships of that time period, like we both said, had a rough go of it one way or another and would require near complete rebuilds to be at 100% again. So Star Fleet  just decided to scrap many of them. 

I dunno, I kind of doubt it. 

Starfleet has never exactly been shy about doing major, strip-the-ship-down-to-the-frame-and-start-over refits on its starships before.  Especially on their largest, most prestigious, multi-mission explorer classes.  Given the changes in the Enterprise-E's appearance between movies, we can safely assume she underwent a major refit after First Contact to take out all the Borg hardware and upgrade her firepower and we know she had another after Nemesis to address her battle damage.  The latter is four years after the Dominion War's end.

 

20 minutes ago, Dobber said:

The Titan, though, I completely agree with. They should have just used a different name. Stargazer, Defiant, and Excelsior didn’t even warrant registry Carryover. What did the Titan do for that honor?  We know Enterprise and Voyager have that honor. Any other ships we know of?

Almost all of the ones we see are from the 29th or 32nd centuries.

The only legitimate ones to appear in the 23rd or 24th centuries were the USS Enterprise (-A, -B, -C, -D, and -E) and the one-shot Galaxy-class USS Yamato (NCC-1305-E).

Other than those two, there's the 29th century USS Relativity (-G) and the 32nd century's Excalibur (-M), Tikhov (-M), and Voyager (-J).

The 32nd century USS Discovery (-A) doesn't count because it's the original USS Discovery with a fake registry number to conceal its true identity as an illegal time-traveler from the 23rd century.  The USS Dauntless (-A) similarly doesn't count because it wasn't actually a Starfleet ship, but rather an alien one faked up to look like one as a trap.

[Thom]

On 10/9/2022 at 10:05 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's Star Trek: Picard... everyone being broken and miserable is this show's one prevailing theme.

Everyone apart from Worf, Geordi, and Beverly has already had at least one season of trauma and misery.

IMO, it seems little different from the series or the follow-up TNG moves. A little more 'gritty' maybe, but the crews have gone through hardships before. Worf lost his parents, K'Ehleyr and then his wife. Geordi lost his mother, and had that little embarrassing thing with Leah Brahms, and hey, Crusher fell in love with a ghost. Hard times!  But that's part of the drama of the show. Like real life, you have quiet moments of happiness and then times of hardship that make it seem like there is far too little of the former.

I think what they really should have done, was to remove the personal aspect out of it and make the crisis something new, and then watch how the characters respond to it and personalize it along the way. I agree that not every villain has to have some personal tie to any of the characters.

[sh9000]

 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, Thom said:

IMO, it seems little different from the series or the follow-up TNG moves. A little more 'gritty' maybe, but the crews have gone through hardships before. Worf lost his parents, K'Ehleyr and then his wife. Geordi lost his mother, and had that little embarrassing thing with Leah Brahms, and hey, Crusher fell in love with a ghost. Hard times!  But that's part of the drama of the show. Like real life, you have quiet moments of happiness and then times of hardship that make it seem like there is far too little of the former.

This is true, but Star Trek: the Next Generation was an almost exclusively episodic series.

The crew faced hardships and personal losses and the like, but they coped with those hardships and losses and for the most part moved on.  Almost like they had regular access to some kind of highly trained mental health professional who could guide them through the grieving process and assist them with developing healthy coping strategies.  It didn't leave them beaten and broken shells of the people they used to be like the backstory of Picard did.  A few of them had lingering issues, but it didn't dominate their characterization.

People watch Star Trek to give them hope for the future.  When that previously bright and optimistic future is substituted for a bleak one filled with misery and despair and all of the indomitable heroes have given up hope themselves, that future is a joyless place and tedious beyond belief.  It might've been fine if it were just one character, but EVERYONE in Star Trek: Picard is either broken and defeated and miserable at the start or gets there very quickly after their introduction.  If TNG had had a plot where Picard meekly accepts defeat in some scenario where billions of lives are on the line, abandons his principles, and f*cks off back to France after quitting Starfleet you'd expect the episode to end with the reveal it'd been a fake Picard created by aliens to mess with the crew or something.  It's not just Picard either.  Riker, Troi, Hugh, and Seven of Nine got hit with it too, and even the new kids all came pre-broken.  

 

10 hours ago, Thom said:

I think what they really should have done, was to remove the personal aspect out of it and make the crisis something new, and then watch how the characters respond to it and personalize it along the way. I agree that not every villain has to have some personal tie to any of the characters.

It was inevitable that every plot was going to have to have a personal tie to Picard himself.  The series was launched as a saving throw after Discovery bombed, and when it bombed too they doubled down on the fanservice in the hopes of getting fans invested.  That's why we went from "Picard will not be a TNG cast reunion" to "Season 3 is a TNG cast reunion and we've put all but one of the original characters on a bus."

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

This is true, but Star Trek: the Next Generation was an almost exclusively episodic series.

The crew faced hardships and personal losses and the like, but they coped with those hardships and losses and for the most part moved on.  Almost like they had regular access to some kind of highly trained mental health professional who could guide them through the grieving process and assist them with developing healthy coping strategies.  It didn't leave them beaten and broken shells of the people they used to be like the backstory of Picard did.  A few of them had lingering issues, but it didn't dominate their characterization.

People watch Star Trek to give them hope for the future.  When that previously bright and optimistic future is substituted for a bleak one filled with misery and despair and all of the indomitable heroes have given up hope themselves, that future is a joyless place and tedious beyond belief.  It might've been fine if it were just one character, but EVERYONE in Star Trek: Picard is either broken and defeated and miserable at the start or gets there very quickly after their introduction.  If TNG had had a plot where Picard meekly accepts defeat in some scenario where billions of lives are on the line, abandons his principles, and f*cks off back to France after quitting Starfleet you'd expect the episode to end with the reveal it'd been a fake Picard created by aliens to mess with the crew or something.  It's not just Picard either.  Riker, Troi, Hugh, and Seven of Nine got hit with it too, and even the new kids all came pre-broken.  

 

It was inevitable that every plot was going to have to have a personal tie to Picard himself.  The series was launched as a saving throw after Discovery bombed, and when it bombed too they doubled down on the fanservice in the hopes of getting fans invested.  That's why we went from "Picard will not be a TNG cast reunion" to "Season 3 is a TNG cast reunion and we've put all but one of the original characters on a bus."

Episodic TV does allow for far more 'resets' than one overarching story line. Having a continuous story doesn't allow any let up, or a space to catch a breath to hit that mini-reset. It just keeps going, which is why SNW has done so well, in that it turns the main story into chapters with side adventures to break the overall story up into more easily digestible bits. It's more the classic-type of story telling. If they had done the same with Picard, I don't think the impression of them all being 'broken' would be so pronounced. As it is, it is just too front and center, without any of that breathing room (distraction) supplied by a new plot.

IMO though, I don't see them as broken. I see them as struggling against demons, both personal and without, and personally, I don't mind if they give up now and then. They're more real that way, No one is a paragon of eternal courage and strength and untarnished hopefulness. What matters is when they get back up again after being knocked down, or telling themselves they were done, and continuing on, which these characters continue to do.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Thom

[sh9000]

 

[Seto Kaiba]

12 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

So if we get a video explaining where Lore's apparently been since he was dismantled in the TNG season 6/7 two-parter does that make the video Lore lore?

Not a bad looking ship, I guess... she doesn't quite have the charm of the Sovereign and looks a bit too much like an oversized Nova-class, but she's a damn sight prettier than that trainwreck called the Titan-A.

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So if we get a video explaining where Lore's apparently been since he was dismantled in the TNG season 6/7 two-parter does that make the video Lore lore?

And a video about the making of Lore lore would be Lore lore lore.

[Seto Kaiba]

19 hours ago, Thom said:

Episodic TV does allow for far more 'resets' than one overarching story line. Having a continuous story doesn't allow any let up, or a space to catch a breath to hit that mini-reset. It just keeps going, [...]

True, though it also helps to not have your story start with the characters having spent a decade-plus beaten and miserable and living in isolation. 

Without those breaks to reset the tone, if you start your story in a place of doom and gloom there's little opportunity to significantly lighten the mood when the bleakness begins to pall.  The Jean-Luc Picard of Picard bears little resemblance to the one in Star Trek: the Next Generation because he's spent over a decade letting his misplaced guilt over the whole Romulan situation turn him into a bitter and self-hating old man and he never really gets a chance to get noticeably better because he just jackknifes from one guilty topic to the next.

 

19 hours ago, Thom said:

[...] which is why SNW has done so well, in that it turns the main story into chapters with side adventures to break the overall story up into more easily digestible bits. It's more the classic-type of story telling. If they had done the same with Picard, I don't think the impression of them all being 'broken' would be so pronounced.

TBH, I think it probably owes a LOT more to simply starting from a much brighter, happier place and largely staying there.

[Thom]

I think Picard is less bitter and guilt ridden than when the series started. He tends to improve when he's not sitting on his bitter behind.

And the Odyssey class is growing on me a bit, esp with that saucer separation leaving a 'leaner' bow behind on the stardrive section. It looks like more of an appropriate follow-on to the Galaxy class than the Sovereign.

And the Titan-A actually looks pretty classy!

[sh9000]

[Seto Kaiba]

The End of an Error.

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