Star Trek: Picard (CBS All-Access)

[pengbuzz]

19 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, that's a big steaming pile of Do Not Want.

I've heard CBS is having trouble finding funding for Star Trek again... hopefully they'll start changing ears instead of flying her into the ground.

With what we know of the series from just the last season, flying it into the ground would have been a matter of a couple of inches...

[Seto Kaiba]

50 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

With what we know of the series from just the last season, flying it into the ground would have been a matter of a couple of inches...

I meant the franchise as a whole.  It's a matter of record that the post-Abrams brand of generic dystopian fiction branded as Star Trek isn't doing very well.

ViacomCBS had to sell stock to dredge up the money for Strange New Worlds, and they're already in such dire shape they're in danger of being found in violation of the terms of their merger agreement by the US Gov't.  If things don't pick up soon, there might not be a Star Trek franchise left in a couple years.

Star Trek: Discovery's on its third major retooling in as many seasons in a bid to fix what's fundamentally unfixable.  Star Trek: Picard's on its second.  Remember when this series was supposed to focus on the new characters, and not just be a badly-written TNG cast reunion with some hamfisted political commentary?

[CoryHolmes]

2 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Remember when this series was supposed to focus on the new characters, and not just be a badly-written TNG cast reunion with some hamfisted political commentary?

That's what I really wanted out of it.  Picard flexing his leadership skills and bringing a bunch of disparate people together and making them into a crew.  With perhaps one, maaaaybe two Shakespearean speeches to motivate them.

 

Instead I got a half-assed rip-off of Mass Effect.  Yuck.

[pengbuzz]

52 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I meant the franchise as a whole.  It's a matter of record that the post-Abrams brand of generic dystopian fiction branded as Star Trek isn't doing very well.

ViacomCBS had to sell stock to dredge up the money for Strange New Worlds, and they're already in such dire shape they're in danger of being found in violation of the terms of their merger agreement by the US Gov't.  If things don't pick up soon, there might not be a Star Trek franchise left in a couple years.

Star Trek: Discovery's on its third major retooling in as many seasons in a bid to fix what's fundamentally unfixable.  Star Trek: Picard's on its second.  Remember when this series was supposed to focus on the new characters, and not just be a badly-written TNG cast reunion with some hamfisted political commentary?

Well, their overall handling of it is pretty much the same: 2 inches from the ground.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Well, their overall handling of it is pretty much the same: 2 inches from the ground.

Yeah, the trailer definitely doesn't promise any trajectory changes.

It'd be one thing if Picard were still the dignified, principled, moral pillar of Federation Starfleet he was in Star Trek: the Next Generation.  TNG Picard would have had some devastating speech to give about an alternate past where the Federation became a totalitarian fascist state.  Instead, we're going to have PIC Picard delivering an awful lot of entitled senior citizen whining.  I guess the budget must be in really dire straits if they're having to set an entire season in the present day to cut down on the effects budget.  Amazon must've slashed their contribution to Picard the way Netflix did after Discovery premiered.

[sh9000]

 

[Thom]

So, shades of First Contact, apparently. Borg/Q go back in time and Picard and crew must go back earlier in order to restore history. Been done before, which doesn't have to be a bad thing. It's all in how they carry it out.

[Dobber]

I have NO faith in this show whatsoever. Couldn’t even get past episode 3 of the first season. Sir Patrick’s soapboxing and HORRIBLE writing ruined a character for me. Lower Decks is the only new Trek I actually like. Such a shame. 
 

Chris

[pengbuzz]

I'm sorry, but after Picard's "reply" to Q ("I' am way too old for your bull--"), I had to turn the trailer off.

Edited January 20, 2022 by pengbuzz

[derex3592]

****siiigh***** Again, I really WANT to like this, perhaps even love it, but I feel like I'll just be let down again like every other ST show of the last few years. I like others couldn't even get past the 2nd or 3rd episode of the 1st season. 

[levzloi]

Classic for a low budget sci fi series episode, go back in time, no sets to build, just shoot around the neighborhood or use the existing cop drama sets.  Except in this case it's Star Trek, and not just one episode, but an entire season. 

[Seto Kaiba]

It's gonna be the hardest of all hard passes from me.

Star Trek: Picard's season one was some real weak sh*t that absolutely stank of desperation and the most abject irrelevance.  Its continuation is a monument to the Sunk Costs Fallacy, if nothing else.  Its viewership numbers were trash on CBS All Access in the US and worse abroad.  It was supposed to sell on the strengths of the new characters, but nobody liked or cared about Picard's pack of Kirkland brand Ethnic Supporting Characters™ and their respective incoherent paper-thin "tragic" backstories.  So now ViacomCBS is selling off stock to pay for this sad mess and they still have to depend on TNG walk-ons to keep anyone watching.

Someone needs to gently remove Sir Patrick (and everyone else, TBH) from the writer's room and make sure the doors are locked so he can't get back in.

[pengbuzz]

21 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's gonna be the hardest of all hard passes from me.

Star Trek: Picard's season one was some real weak sh*t that absolutely stank of desperation and the most abject irrelevance.  Its continuation is a monument to the Sunk Costs Fallacy, if nothing else.  Its viewership numbers were trash on CBS All Access in the US and worse abroad.  It was supposed to sell on the strengths of the new characters, but nobody liked or cared about Picard's pack of Kirkland brand Ethnic Supporting Characters™ and their respective incoherent paper-thin "tragic" backstories.  So now ViacomCBS is selling off stock to pay for this sad mess and they still have to depend on TNG walk-ons to keep anyone watching.

Someone needs to gently remove Sir Patrick (and everyone else, TBH) from the writer's room and make sure the doors are locked so he can't get back in.

And then fire the writers, production staff, burn the sets (all 3 of them) and the film negatives.

Seriously... this is kidney stone levels of passage right here. It needs to pass already, but it hurts just having it around.

[Dynaman]

I don't hate the first season like everyone else seems to.  It wasn't great but it was entertaining enough and this one looks worth a watch as well.  Maybe after New Frontiers comes out so I can binge it for a month.

[Thom]

I don't hate it either, just some things disappointed, more in the direction they took. I'm just not real interested in the good ship La Sirena and crew.

[Dynaman]

Another trailer is out and it looks like the money they saved with a modern day setting went to good use elsewhere.  The more I see the more interested I get.

 

 

[Keith]

I've been fine with the newer shows too. I think the fan-rage faction just likes to fanrage.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

Another trailer is out and it looks like the money they saved with a modern day setting went to good use elsewhere.  The more I see the more interested I get.

Where, exactly?  (Not trying to be snarky, genuinely asking.)

Star Trek: Picard's production quality was consistently high, as you'd expect from a series that sacrificed even episode count to keep its per-episode production budget up to the level the studio needed.  Apart from a few minor prop and costume issues it was pretty as a picture.  (Just not a picture from Star Trek, mind you.)

The issues that got the series crucified by general audiences were in its writing.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Keith said:

I've been fine with the newer shows too. I think the fan-rage faction just likes to fanrage.

Eh... on the basis of the objective evidence, I'd have to disagree with that assessment unless your contention is that the "fan-rage faction" comprises the majority of the fanbase.

[Dynaman]

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Where, exactly?  (Not trying to be snarky, genuinely asking.)

I saw it very clearly in that last trailer.  If you did not that is fine but I will not be arguing about it.

[pengbuzz]

Well, I see the desperation factor is increasing: they recruited Whoopi Goldberg to return.

I guess they have a list of cast members to run through/over in order to make this lead brick try to float...

[Dynaman]

Or, more likely, the plan was always to bring back a character or two as a season cameo.

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Well, I see the desperation factor is increasing: they recruited Whoopi Goldberg to return.

Eh... in all fairness, I wouldn't call it "desperation".

It's more like the showrunners have been forced to accept certain realities about the series.

Namely, that absolutely bloody nobody is watching Star Trek: Picard for the new characters who were originally supposed to carry the series.  Picard's showrunners had initially said they were keen to restrict guest appearances by returning TNG characters to the absolute minimum so the series could focus on its original characters.  That theoretically admirable commitment to having the series stand on its own merits instead of a borrowed gloss from TNG seems to have fallen by the wayside after Star Trek: Discovery's first season flopped internationally and they decided to build season two around legacy characters.  Picard's guest appearances by the only well-received parts of the series, even if fans hated how the series depicted everyone as beaten and broken failures, so they're going for broke by bringing both of Picard's most iconic villains (Q and the Borg Queen) back alongside the one trusted advisor who advised him about both: Guinan.

They've accepted the series will never sell on its own merits, so they're going whole hog on borrowed appeal from TNG instead.

(It's interesting to note that they seem to have been unable to secure the services of original Borg Queen actor Alice Krige or her mid-series Voyager stand-in Susanna Thompson to play the Borg Queen... she's being played by Annie Wersching this time around, who you may remember as Liana from ENT "Oasis".)

 

 

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I guess they have a list of cast members to run through/over in order to make this lead brick try to float...

6 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Or, more likely, the plan was always to bring back a character or two as a season cameo.

Nah, this combo is clearly strategic:

• Q - Picard's first and most iconic recurring villain, who put all of humanity on trial with various temporal and alternate universe shenanigans and who introduced humanity to the Borg.
• The Borg Queen - the recurring villain who traumatized Picard the most, and who has history with Seven of Nine as well.
• Guinan - Picard's mysterious old friend and trusted advisor who has been hinted to have supernatural abilities including a demonstrated intuitive knowledge of changes to the timeline, who advised Picard on how to survive encounters with the Borg due to her own people having been destroyed by them, and who shares some mysterious and unelaborated-upon past with Q that was enough for Q to warn Picard about her and potentially even fear her.

[Mommar]

19 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

• Guinan - Picard's mysterious old friend and trusted advisor who has been hinted to have supernatural abilities including a demonstrated intuitive knowledge of changes to the timeline, who advised Picard on how to survive encounters with the Borg due to her own people having been destroyed by them, and who shares some mysterious and unelaborated-upon past with Q that was enough for Q to warn Picard about her and potentially even fear her.

So they're going to ruin all of that by explaining it in the absolute worst way possible...

[pengbuzz]

On 1/22/2022 at 4:50 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... in all fairness, I wouldn't call it "desperation".

It's more like the showrunners have been forced to accept certain realities about the series.

Namely, that absolutely bloody nobody is watching Star Trek: Picard for the new characters who were originally supposed to carry the series.  Picard's showrunners had initially said they were keen to restrict guest appearances by returning TNG characters to the absolute minimum so the series could focus on its original characters.  That theoretically admirable commitment to having the series stand on its own merits instead of a borrowed gloss from TNG seems to have fallen by the wayside after Star Trek: Discovery's first season flopped internationally and they decided to build season two around legacy characters.  Picard's guest appearances by the only well-received parts of the series, even if fans hated how the series depicted everyone as beaten and broken failures, so they're going for broke by bringing both of Picard's most iconic villains (Q and the Borg Queen) back alongside the one trusted advisor who advised him about both: Guinan.

They've accepted the series will never sell on its own merits, so they're going whole hog on borrowed appeal from TNG instead.

(It's interesting to note that they seem to have been unable to secure the services of original Borg Queen actor Alice Krige or her mid-series Voyager stand-in Susanna Thompson to play the Borg Queen... she's being played by Annie Wersching this time around, who you may remember as Liana from ENT "Oasis".)

While I understand where you're coming from on this ( they're doing "go with what works"), I think they badly overestimated the holding power of their original characters, and seem to be flailing here.

 

On 1/22/2022 at 4:50 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Nah, this combo is clearly strategic:

• Q - Picard's first and most iconic recurring villain, who put all of humanity on trial with various temporal and alternate universe shenanigans and who introduced humanity to the Borg.
• The Borg Queen - the recurring villain who traumatized Picard the most, and who has history with Seven of Nine as well.
• Guinan - Picard's mysterious old friend and trusted advisor who has been hinted to have supernatural abilities including a demonstrated intuitive knowledge of changes to the timeline, who advised Picard on how to survive encounters with the Borg due to her own people having been destroyed by them, and who shares some mysterious and unelaborated-upon past with Q that was enough for Q to warn Picard about her and potentially even fear her.

Can we at least agree that if they try to bring in Wesley Crusher,  then the series is in Absolute Panic Mode™ and they are desperate?

[sh9000]

I’ll watch for Picard, Q, Guinan, Borg Queen, another Soong, and 7 of 9.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Mommar said:

So they're going to ruin all of that by explaining it in the absolute worst way possible...

... that is certainly possible, yes.  

Highly probable, IMO, given that Star Trek: Picard seems determined to revisit every dangling plot thread from TNG and its four movies and tie them up in the most depressing and dystopian way possible.

Spoiler

So far, the list of victims already includes:

• Will Riker and Deanna Troi's post-Nemesis married life and family.
• Data's backdoor for a Search for Spock-style revival from Nemesis.  (Doubled by killing Data again in bodiless backup form.)
• Picard's hinted-at celebrated post-captaincy career as a Federation Ambassador.
• Hugh's life after accepting individuality.
• Seven of Nine/Annika's life after accepting individuality.
• Captain Janeway and Admiral Janeway's defeat of the Borg collective.
• The massive gains in diplomatic relations with the Romulans following the Dominion War and Praetor Shinzon.
• Icheb's future career in Starfleet.

Always remember Rule of Acquisition number Two Hundred and Eight:

"Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer."

 

 

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

While I understand where you're coming from on this ( they're doing "go with what works"), I think they badly overestimated the holding power of their original characters, and seem to be flailing here.

Oh, undeniably.

It'd be hard to argue otherwise when the review aggregators agree Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard are the worst and second-worst rated Star Trek TV shows in the entire franchise by a fairly significant margin according to general audience scores.

Some of it's not even excusable.  I mean, we all remember what happened the first time someone introduced a heretofore unseen and unmentioned sibling of Spock's.  Star Trek V: the Final Frontier... the worst-rated Star Trek movie of all time, and the worst-rated Star Trek title overall.

It probably would've worked better for them if the Discovery OCs weren't so mired in edgy writing that they all came off as unlikable toxic douchebags led by a manipulative psycho and Picard's hadn't been a pack of faintly racist ethnic stereotypes hastily wrapped in poorly thought-out tragic (and edgy) backstories that don't make sense in context if you know anything about the setting.

(Basically, the longer this drags on the more convinced I am we're watching Star Trek's chuunibyou phase.)

 

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Can we at least agree that if they try to bring in Wesley Crusher,  then the series is in Absolute Panic Mode™ and they are desperate?

Honestly?  I'd give that one a fair shake just to see if their Bizarro World writing efforts somehow yield the unthinkable and theoretically impossible Good Wesley Episode.

Hell, after the damage done by Picard season one, Wil Wheaton might find himself playing the least-hated character on the show!

 

57 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

I’ll watch for Picard, Q, Guinan, Borg Queen, another Soong, and 7 of 9.

That seems to be the prevailing mood among those fans who are still committed to watching it.

They lost a lot of people when they ended their partnership with Amazon Prime outside the US.

[Thom]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

While I understand where you're coming from on this ( they're doing "go with what works"), I think they badly overestimated the holding power of their original characters, and seem to be flailing here.

 

Can we at least agree that if they try to bring in Wesley Crusher,  then the series is in Absolute Panic Mode™ and they are desperate?

You joke, but that would be awesome. Wil Wheaton is cool.

Unless you mean, this Wesley Crusher..?

[Mommar]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

  Hide contentsSome of it's not even excusable.  I mean, we all remember what happened the first time someone introduced a heretofore unseen and unmentioned sibling of Spock's.  Star Trek V: the Final Frontier... the worst-rated Star Trek movie of all time, and the worst-rated Star Trek title overall.

I’d disagree, if V had the budget of Discovery Season 1 I’d bet it would have been reviewed a lot better.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, Mommar said:

I’d disagree, if V had the budget of Discovery Season 1 I’d bet it would have been reviewed a lot better.

Maybe if it had the budget of Discovery's entire first season (~$120M, $60M adjusted for inflation)... though Final Frontier's executive producer Ralph Winter publicly refuted Shatner's claims that Final Frontier's problems were caused by its budget back in a 2010 interview.  Final Frontier's initially-approved budget was over $27M, more than twice what was spent to produce Wrath of Khan, and by the time all was said and done it was over $5M over budget, making it almost 3x as expensive as Wrath of Khan and the second most expensive TOS movie overall.  Though given what was said about what was cut due to budgetary constraints - like Shatner's ridiculous rock monster - we should probably be grateful it didn't.

Discovery and Picard supposedly cost around $8-8.5M per 43 minute episode, not counting the cost overruns that were supposedly endemic to the production of both shows and got their budgets slashed repeatedly.  Picard had to go for the absolute minimum runtime in order to afford that level of per-episode spending under Amazon, and Discovery's now down to a ten episode season from fifteen originally due to budget cuts and overspending.

[Thom]

ST:FF, it wasn't just the budget or follow-through, it was the abysmal plot! That script should have been stuck in cement and then dumped into the Marianas Trench!

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Thom said:

ST:FF, it wasn't just the budget or follow-through, it was the abysmal plot! That script should have been stuck in cement and then dumped into the Marianas Trench!

True, though that's something it shares in common with Picard and Discovery... some of the worst writing in the franchise's history.

 

[lechuck]

That second trailer is quite interesting, I spot Nova and Steamrunner class starships. Seems like they are going to employ two types of time travel, Borg style and sun slingshot? Of course nice to see Guinan rejoin, "10 Forward Avenue" - nice one.

I watched season one and it was not really captivating, but I'm still looking forward to season two. I will pass judgement if good or bad afterwards and not on the basis of a two minute trailer.

On 1/22/2022 at 2:43 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... on the basis of the objective evidence, I'd have to disagree with that assessment unless your contention is that the "fan-rage faction" comprises the majority of the fanbase.

That is a bold statement, being objective and evidence driven you would have factual numbers to back that claim. How big is the fanbase per region? What is the demographic make up of the fanbase? Within each of the different age spans, how big is the percentage of fans that are pro/contra/neutral on the new shows? etc. etc. Without this your "objective evidence" is nothing but subjective speculation.

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They lost a lot of people when they ended their partnership with Amazon Prime outside the US.

Reading this for the first time, is there a link to a source or the official statement you can point to? Maybe that means more PlutoTV for me, like with Discovery.

[pengbuzz]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

True, though that's something it shares in common with Picard and Discovery... some of the worst writing in the franchise's history.

 

Star Trek V: How Many Decks does A Connie Refit Have?

[Seto Kaiba]

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-show-season-3-last-final-confirmed/

Sir Patrick Stewart has confirmed that Star Trek: Picard's third season will be its last.

As has become Star Trek's new normal, the official line is "We meant to do that all along", though that doesn't quite tally with previous remarks by producer Akiva Goldsman where it was said that the show's development had considered the first three seasons as a single self-contained story but provisionally planned for 5 or more seasons depending on how long Sir Patrick was willing to continue to reprise the character as a then-80 year old man playing a 94 year old character.

[pengbuzz]

12 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-show-season-3-last-final-confirmed/

Sir Patrick Stewart has confirmed that Star Trek: Picard's third season will be its last.

As has become Star Trek's new normal, the official line is "We meant to do that all along", though that doesn't quite tally with previous remarks by producer Akiva Goldsman where it was said that the show's development had considered the first three seasons as a single self-contained story but provisionally planned for 5 or more seasons depending on how long Sir Patrick was willing to continue to reprise the character as a then-80 year old man playing a 94 year old character.

No surprise there.