Star Trek: Picard (CBS All-Access)

[sh9000]

 

 

 

[sh9000]

[Mommar]

Why does the Titan have an A designation?  That honor was reserved for the Enterprise, and it wasn't bestowed on the Refit E either.  

[Lolicon]

I'm glad Eaglemoss was able to unload some of their remaining stock.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Mommar said:

Why does the Titan have an A designation?  That honor was reserved for the Enterprise, and it wasn't bestowed on the Refit E either.  

Because the showrunners are complete imbeciles.

The honor of reusing a registry with a letter suffix was a signal honor for Starfleet's most celebrated ships.  The Discovery showrunners went nuts with it when they jumped their show to the 32nd century (after jumping the shark) and had a bunch of lettered Starfleet ships all at once.  Prior to that, there were only one other 23rd/24th century example that wasn't a ship in the Enterprise legacy: the Galaxy-class USS Yamato.  The third and last (legitimate) example was the 29th century USS Relativity.  

Having the Luna-class USS Titan in Lower Decks was a huge coup for the Lower Decks showrunners and was near-universally well-received.  Apparently Picard's showrunners have a crippling fear of money and success, and commissioned that fugly kitbash to replace it even though Riker's USS Titan would have been only slightly over 22 years old (with the life expectancy of a Starfleet ship being a century or more).

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Riker's USS Titan would have been only slightly over 22 years old (with the life expectancy of a Starfleet ship being a century or more).

Obviously Riker wrecked it. Probably in a desperate gambit to deal with something that would have galaxy-spanning consequences. Sadly, the details are classified pending the release of the final report from the Department of Temporal Affairs.

 

 

Also: Neo-Constitution class? Just ugh.

[Mommar]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Because the showrunners are complete imbeciles.

The honor of reusing a registry with a letter suffix was a signal honor for Starfleet's most celebrated ships.  The Discovery showrunners went nuts with it when they jumped their show to the 32nd century (after jumping the shark) and had a bunch of lettered Starfleet ships all at once.  Prior to that, there were only one other 23rd/24th century example that wasn't a ship in the Enterprise legacy: the Galaxy-class USS Yamato.  The third and last (legitimate) example was the 29th century USS Relativity.  

Having the Luna-class USS Titan in Lower Decks was a huge coup for the Lower Decks showrunners and was near-universally well-received.  Apparently Picard's showrunners have a crippling fear of money and success, and commissioned that fugly kitbash to replace it even though Riker's USS Titan would have been only slightly over 22 years old (with the life expectancy of a Starfleet ship being a century or more).

Rhetorical.  You and I both knew the answer.  It's interesting how many reviewers are praising it but the RLM guys are still poking hole after hole in Matlis' ability to maintain consistency with basic details.

I think in lower decks they also have bestowed a letter designation to Voyager (might actually be Discovery.)  You could possibly make an argument, the actual show not-withstanding, Voyager did majorly distinguish itself by surviving that far out for that long and making it home.

They were a tad hamstrung with ships though.  The Titan is the only other "family" left being Rikers prime Command but with its use in Lower Decks it would look like a legitimate me too to use that configuration.  It also doesn't step on Strange New Worlds already using an Enterprise.  And it can be more easily reconfigured because it's soft-canon and not as well known so not as offensive, I guess?  Except for the fact many of us fans hold details like this important.

There are too many things in this show that smack of JJ's "remember this thing from that old thing you like" syndrome his previous films have included to distract with nostalgia a lack of ideas.  Crushers contemporary ST2 Away Team Kirk jacket does actually LOOK nice as a piece of clothing though.  

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

Also: Neo-Constitution class? Just ugh.

The Neo-Constitution isn't a new idea.  They've been using that idea to keep justifying the Excelsior class design.  Plus they have an Enterprise without having an Enterprise so it sticks with this not being the legitimate Trek universe.

[pengbuzz]

17 hours ago, Mommar said:

Why does the Titan have an A designation?  That honor was reserved for the Enterprise, and it wasn't bestowed on the Refit E either.  

Because the showrunners for Picard are such experts at pulling stuff out of their collective a$$es that they should be conferred honorary proctology degrees.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, JB0 said:

Obviously Riker wrecked it. Probably in a desperate gambit to deal with something that would have galaxy-spanning consequences. Sadly, the details are classified pending the release of the final report from the Department of Temporal Affairs.

Which is a cheap copout at best.

The showrunners want every ship to be like the Enterprise... but they shouldn't.  The Enterprise is special.  After TOS, the Enterprise was the Federation flagship.  It had the most elite crew and the best of everything and was frequently the first to charge into danger.  That's why they go through Enterprises at such a terrifying rate.  Seldom does the Lady E go to her rest quietly.  But that was already a tired cliche by the time of Star Trek: Generations.  It was shocking EXACTLY ONCE.

Riker's Luna-class USS Titan is no Enterprise.  She's a smaller, long-range deep space explorer and her mission was exploration not combat (Pakled nonsense aside).  There's no real reason for the Titan to have been destroyed offscreen in some act of incredible valor that got a new USS Titan commissioned almost immediately.  

 

10 hours ago, JB0 said:

Also: Neo-Constitution class? Just ugh.

It's so fanfic.  But then, all of Picard reads like a BAD fanfic.

It's especially bad in the novels, where you almost suspect the writers are taking the piss.  They make ZERO effort to disguise the fact that Rios is Han Solo from Wish.com, that Raffi is just a racist stereotype, and that everyone else is an idiot.

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

Rhetorical.  You and I both knew the answer.

Yes, but have you ever known me to miss a chance to grumble? 😛 

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

It's interesting how many reviewers are praising it but the RLM guys are still poking hole after hole in Matlis' ability to maintain consistency with basic details.

Reviews can be bought, and frequently are.

Not to mention the reviewers have had two seasons of absolute dogsh*t from this show lowering their expectations.  What came before this was so bad that they're praising this season for almost achieving "basic competence in storytelling".  

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

I think in lower decks they also have bestowed a letter designation to Voyager (might actually be Discovery.)  You could possibly make an argument, the actual show not-withstanding, Voyager did majorly distinguish itself by surviving that far out for that long and making it home.

Discovery did it first, introducing a Voyager-J in the 32nd century Starfleet.  Prodigy introduced a Voyager-A, and then Picard a Voyager-B not even 20 years later.

The original USS Voyager went through seven years of hell from 2371-2378, so that it was decommissioned after its return is completely expected given that she was probably held together with spit, bailing wire, and wishful thinking by that point.  The commissioning of a Voyager-A by 2384 is entirely expected... but why is there already a Voyager-B just 17 years after that?

There have been eleven Voyagers in 819 years... why are they burning through them so damned quick, unless the Voyager-J is actually 700 years old?

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

They were a tad hamstrung with ships though.  The Titan is the only other "family" left being Rikers prime Command but with its use in Lower Decks it would look like a legitimate me too to use that configuration.

But a justified one, esp. since the theme is "Family".

Plus there's a BIG difference between a cartoon and a big budget live action series.

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

The Neo-Constitution isn't a new idea.  They've been using that idea to keep justifying the Excelsior class design.  Plus they have an Enterprise without having an Enterprise so it sticks with this not being the legitimate Trek universe.

That's not quite the same.

Prior to the adoption of Star Trek Online designs in Picard's second season, the Excelsior-class design was justified by nothing fancier than literal decades of mass production as a major Starfleet workhorse class.  The Excelsior-class had almost a century of distinguished service under its belt (2285-2378+) by the time they stopped doing 24th century Trek and it explicitly remained in service that long thanks to technological updates and refits.  It's not a new class, it's just POR for Starfleet ships: Periodic upgrades to keep ships in service for decades.  The tech materials conceived around TNG put the expected lifespan of a 24th century starship at over a century.

[JB0]

5 hours ago, Mommar said:

The Neo-Constitution isn't a new idea.  They've been using that idea to keep justifying the Excelsior class design. 

I don't object to the concept of an heir to the Constitution's legacy. Be it the Excelsior or the Ambassador or whatever, every ship designer will want to borrow from that legacy of service, particularly the legendary cruise of the 1701. 

But just straight-up calling it "Neo-Constitution-class" is hamfisted and ugly.

 

Edit: And honestly, if you can't get the contract for the next Enterprise, you should be ashamed to even CONSIDER calling your design Neo-Constitution.

Edited February 24, 2023 by JB0

[sh9000]

Excellent episode 2.  Looking forward to more.

 

[JB0]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Which is a cheap copout at best.

To be clear, I was making crap up.

But Riker's not a normal Starfleet officer. He's former commander, and temporarily captain, of the Enterprise. I don't believe any Enterprise bridge officer went on to have a normal, uneventful career, least of all aer transporter-cloned borg-desimillating first officer. If the Ent-D's former crew isn't all on several watch lists, then the Federation's not doing due diligence. I have no trouble believing his first command survived as long as the Enterprise-A.

Edited February 24, 2023 by JB0

[sh9000]

 

 

[Thom]

Inconsistencies aside, I'm liking it so far. 

I am pleased that Picard is only there... 

Spoiler

...because Jack is his son, and not because Vadic has some grudge against him, or apparently against the Federation itself. That seems to be reserved for as yet unknown character being chased down by Raffi. Whose storyline, I must say, I wasn't too involved in until Worf showed up. Nice intro, by the way!

As to the Titan-A, I like the design. Yes, it has more classical lines than the 'current' era, but Riker does say that it is a refit. A refit of what, I don't know, as there is some confusion as to whether this is the Titan he left Enterprise to command, or a replacement ship for that one. Shaw does make reference to having trouble cleaning his selection of jazz from the computers, so I wonder if they are going off on their own design for the Titan. 

It's a questionable choice as really all they had to do was just name it something else, like Hornet, and it would be a non-issue. But oh well.

Looking forward to episode three.

 

[azrael]

The Neo-Constitution-class is supposed to be a revamped of the old Shangri-la-class (yes, both Bill Krause’s designs. He confirmed it). They also mentioned that the original U.S.S. Titan, NCC-1777, was the Federation flagship just before the Enterprise-B, and was captained by Savvik.

[Thom]

Memory Alpha also calls it a Constitution III class.

[sh9000]

 

 

[TehPW]

I tried to watch this. I was fine with the intro of Beverly: Gunsmoke... and I absolutely loved the Picard-Romulan chick interaction (out of context) but once they got on Titan, I rage quit. The Captain was NOT on the bridge of HIS SHIP during departure from Star Base 1? Sending 7 of 9 to see Picard and Riker at the 'quarter deck' I could understand, from a personal perspective of Shaw not wanting to deal with the two immediately but not being involved in basic seamanship operations as important as departure? Complete and utter retardation, on the part of the WRITERS. 

Shaw being a complete a-hole during the meet & greet dinner... could have been done much better. Maybe he has good reason to dislike (if not loath Picard because Shaw still holds Picard responsible for Shaw's losses at Wolf 357) but he could have been less... abrasive because Picard could easily make Shaw's command brief just by making a few calls.

Speaking of calls... Why did Shaw NOT immediately contact Star Fleet Command and ask why Picard and Riker were onboard? 

 

utter shite writing on the part of production. I wanted to give this a chance but having watched enough of a sample size, to verify my opinions of others scathing reviews, I was my hands of the whole thing. Seriously, Marine Crayon Eating Quality stupidity is how I describe PICy...

[Seto Kaiba]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:41 PM, JB0 said:

To be clear, I was making crap up.

Yes, I know you were.

The problem is that the reality is so stupid that there's no immediate distinction between satirizing the stupidity and simply reporting on it.

You may have been joking, but Riker's Luna-class USS Titan would have to have met its end in some excessively dramatic high-stakes act of derring-do for Starfleet to honor it with a new USS Titan sharing its registry number.  That was an honor reserved for only Starfleet's most celebrated ships.  

 

On 2/24/2023 at 5:41 PM, JB0 said:

But Riker's not a normal Starfleet officer. He's former commander, and temporarily captain, of the Enterprise. I don't believe any Enterprise bridge officer went on to have a normal, uneventful career, least of all aer transporter-cloned borg-desimillating first officer. If the Ent-D's former crew isn't all on several watch lists, then the Federation's not doing due diligence. I have no trouble believing his first command survived as long as the Enterprise-A.

None of the returning TNG characters are normal Starfleet officers.  They were the senior staff of not one but two separate Federation flagships... Starfleet's most elite.

Picard, for its part, seems to argue for exactly that... that, after the crew broke up following the events of Nemesis, they went on to have relatively normal careers and civilian lives.  Jean-Luc Picard accepted a desk job overseeing humanitarian aid then resigned his commission and spent a decade or so running the family winery.  Will Riker and Deanna Troi served aboard the USS Titan on an exploration mission then apparently took a promotion and retired to have a family.  Geordi took a transfer to Utopia Planetia and became a yard foreman like Sisko had been before Deep Space Nine.  Depending on whether they're about to retcon their own novels, Worf may or may not have briefly commanded the Enterprise before moving on to a desk job.  Dr. Crusher apparently took twenty years of maternity leave to raise her bastard.  By their standards, positively boring humdrum lives.  

 

While season three's writing is definitely an improvement over the previous two seasons of out-of-control dumpster fire, it's still some incredibly weak sh*t that's clearly running on protagonist-centric morality.  Things are right or wrong not because there's any moral reason or logic behind them, but because it advances the agenda of the main characters.  It reminds me of nothing so much as Bill Shatner's novel The Return, which was seemingly written by Shatner for no reason other than to settle the Kirk vs. Picard debate in his own favor once and for all by having Kirk brought back from the dead to one-up every member of the TNG cast.  

[sh9000]

6 hours ago, Thom said:

Looking forward to episode three.

Same here.

[JB0]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Picard, for its part, seems to argue for exactly that... that, after the crew broke up following the events of Nemesis, they went on to have relatively normal careers and civilian lives.  Jean-Luc Picard accepted a desk job overseeing humanitarian aid then resigned his commission and spent a decade or so running the family winery.  Will Riker and Deanna Troi served aboard the USS Titan on an exploration mission then apparently took a promotion and retired to have a family.  Geordi took a transfer to Utopia Planetia and became a yard foreman like Sisko had been before Deep Space Nine.  Depending on whether they're about to retcon their own novels, Worf may or may not have briefly commanded the Enterprise before moving on to a desk job.  Dr. Crusher apparently took twenty years of maternity leave to raise her bastard.  By their standards, positively boring humdrum lives.  

Madness. More than anything else, THIS makes me want Picard to have not happened.

 

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yes, I know you were.

The problem is that the reality is so stupid that there's no immediate distinction between satirizing the stupidity and simply reporting on it.

Just making sure! 

[MikeRoz]

This season seems to be better than the prior one so far, which isn't saying much. But the absolute worst part of the most recent episode is the way that someone on the bridge asked "What just happened?" in reaction to a very simple action sequence that the audience just saw clearly.

And a bunch of the other bad things branch off of this like a tree of mediocrity:

Spoiler

• Why did a room full of seasoned bridge officers need a tractor beam explained to them?
• Why did Amanda Plummer throw a ship at them rather than demonstrating some of that super-advanced weaponry she let them scan?
• Why did Amanda Plummer give them an hour to think it over? Did someone from CBS ask her to extend the season from 9 episodes to 10?
• Why didn't someone, especially Riker, who was putting forth the theory himself, just scan Jack and confirm his parentage? This would have let them skip that hour too, so maybe CBS asked him not to think of it.
• Why did Shaw suddenly start obeying Picard's orders once Jack was confirmed as his son? The call he made (paraphrased: "This guy isn't worth the lives of the people under my command") is one I don't think we'd have heard from Picard, or any ante-Kurtzman ST captain, but it's a reasonable and defensible one. Why does Jack's parentage short-circuit his decision process too?
• Speaking of scanning Jack, why did nobody check him for nifty escape tools before throwing him in the brig?
• Why did Shaw wait until after Seven gave him advice that was apparently worthwhile enough for him to follow before relieving her of duty?
• Why, when the Titan-A awkwardly took a few potshots at Amanda Plummer and then ran slowly for a dust cloud, did Amanda sit there chortling for a while before ordering pursuit? Why didn't she follow through on her threat to use some of that advanced weaponry?

  EDIT:

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Picard, for its part, seems to argue for exactly that... that, after the crew broke up following the events of Nemesis, they went on to have relatively normal careers and civilian lives.  Jean-Luc Picard accepted a desk job overseeing humanitarian aid then resigned his commission and spent a decade or so running the family winery.  Will Riker and Deanna Troi served aboard the USS Titan on an exploration mission then apparently took a promotion and retired to have a family.  Geordi took a transfer to Utopia Planetia and became a yard foreman like Sisko had been before Deep Space Nine.  Depending on whether they're about to retcon their own novels, Worf may or may not have briefly commanded the Enterprise before moving on to a desk job.  Dr. Crusher apparently took twenty years of maternity leave to raise her bastard.  By their standards, positively boring humdrum lives.  

It's worse than that:

Spoiler

• Picard tried and (in his mind) failed to prevent the Federation from backsliding into isolationism, and watched them stand idly by in the face of an enormous humanitarian romulanitarian crisis. He quits in disgust.
• Riker and Troi lose their child to a utopia-resistant illness.
• Data has remained dead, and at the end of S1 declares he's content to stay that way.
• Crusher disappeared from the lives of all of her friends to be a single mom.
• We haven't seen much of Geordi and Worf, so stay tuned to see their tales of angst and woe.
• Seven quit to be some sort of vigilante, got to see her son-figure vivisected, and then joined Starfleet only to end up under a commanding officer who clearly makes her deeply uncomfortable.

Everyone in this future is miserable. Amanda Plummer is the only one in this show actually having any fun.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by MikeRoz

[Thom]

15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yes, I know you were.

The problem is that the reality is so stupid that there's no immediate distinction between satirizing the stupidity and simply reporting on it.

You may have been joking, but Riker's Luna-class USS Titan would have to have met its end in some excessively dramatic high-stakes act of derring-do for Starfleet to honor it with a new USS Titan sharing its registry number.  That was an honor reserved for only Starfleet's most celebrated ships.  

 

None of the returning TNG characters are normal Starfleet officers.  They were the senior staff of not one but two separate Federation flagships... Starfleet's most elite.

Picard, for its part, seems to argue for exactly that... that, after the crew broke up following the events of Nemesis, they went on to have relatively normal careers and civilian lives.  Jean-Luc Picard accepted a desk job overseeing humanitarian aid then resigned his commission and spent a decade or so running the family winery.  Will Riker and Deanna Troi served aboard the USS Titan on an exploration mission then apparently took a promotion and retired to have a family.  Geordi took a transfer to Utopia Planetia and became a yard foreman like Sisko had been before Deep Space Nine.  Depending on whether they're about to retcon their own novels, Worf may or may not have briefly commanded the Enterprise before moving on to a desk job.  Dr. Crusher apparently took twenty years of maternity leave to raise her bastard.  By their standards, positively boring humdrum lives.  

 

While season three's writing is definitely an improvement over the previous two seasons of out-of-control dumpster fire, it's still some incredibly weak sh*t that's clearly running on protagonist-centric morality.  Things are right or wrong not because there's any moral reason or logic behind them, but because it advances the agenda of the main characters.  It reminds me of nothing so much as Bill Shatner's novel The Return, which was seemingly written by Shatner for no reason other than to settle the Kirk vs. Picard debate in his own favor once and for all by having Kirk brought back from the dead to one-up every member of the TNG cast.  

Is this a different ship than the one Riker left Enterprise to command? I haven't been able to find any thing that states it is or it isn't. Yes, Lower Decks has a Luna class Titan and I think Prodigy may as well, but are these set in the same universe or are they doing their own thing? Was the Luna-Titan destroyed and Riker and Co just moved to the Neo-Titan, and then he retired? Considering that Shaw had to remove Riker's mix-tape from the Neo-Titan's computers, that's the one I'm going with. And considering how hero ships usually go out, I'm assuming Luna-Titan went out in a true blaze of glory.

As for characters having normal lives after exemplary events, there's nothing wrong with that, and in fact would be quite normal. TV fictionalizes and expands on momentous events for the dramatic effect, but if a person had to live with a series of world/universe altering events every week, they'd be burned out and retiring early! So yes, after Nemesis, they went their separate ways and had normal lives and careers, for the most part. 

Picard has had at least four command slots, which is a lot for any one person, esp if they are all long duration commands like Stargazer and Enterprise D-and E, which meant he was in command of ships for 46 years! That he decided to finally accept promotion and do something else is not surprising. 

Riker went on to command Titan (perhaps two ships) before becoming an Admiral, and after the death of his son retired to concentrate on family. He then accepted demotion to captain in order to command the Zheng He, and then I guess went back into retirement.  

LaForge may have had a command or two in the intervening twenty years, as we know some alternate timeline versions of him did, I guess including being a yard foreman at Utopia Planetia, before becoming curator of the fleet museum. 

Beverly Crusher, we don't know yet why she hid the fact that she and Picard had a son, or why she disappeared for twenty years. I'm hoping there is a very good reason for it! But we do know in that intervening time she was preforming humanitarian efforts, both legal and not while raising their son.

People go on and do different things, that's just normal. Even the most elite have to take down time.

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

This season seems to be better than the prior one so far, which isn't saying much. But the absolute worst part of the most recent episode is the way that someone on the bridge asked "What just happened?" in reaction to a very simple action sequence that the audience just saw clearly.

And a bunch of the other bad things branch off of this like a tree of mediocrity:

  Hide contents

• Why did a room full of seasoned bridge officers need a tractor beam explained to them?
• Why did Amanda Plummer throw a ship at them rather than demonstrating some of that super-advanced weaponry she let them scan?
• Why did Amanda Plummer give them an hour to think it over? Did someone from CBS ask her to extend the season from 9 episodes to 10?
• Why didn't someone, especially Riker, who was putting forth the theory himself, just scan Jack and confirm his parentage? This would have let them skip that hour too, so maybe CBS asked him not to think of it.
• Why did Shaw suddenly start obeying Picard's orders once Jack was confirmed as his son? The call he made (paraphrased: "This guy isn't worth the lives of the people under my command") is one I don't think we'd have heard from Picard, or any ante-Kurtzman ST captain, but it's a reasonable and defensible one. Why does Jack's parentage short-circuit his decision process too?
• Speaking of scanning Jack, why did nobody check him for nifty escape tools before throwing him in the brig?
• Why did Shaw wait until after Seven gave him advice that was apparently worthwhile enough for him to follow before relieving her of duty?
• Why, when the Titan-A awkwardly took a few potshots at Amanda Plummer and then ran slowly for a dust cloud, did Amanda sit there chortling for a while before ordering pursuit? Why didn't she follow through on her threat to use some of that advanced weaponry?

  

Spoiler

- I would say they weren't so much explaining tractor beams to the bridge crew, as they were to the audience. You and I know what they are and what they do, but there has to be some level of explanation or laymen-viewers may get lost.

- I think Vadic threw the ship at Titan because she likes blunt force trauma. (joke) But it's possible that most of the weaponry on her ship would do too much damage to the Titan and possibly kill the man she's after. Maybe the tractor beam was the most non-lethal she's got.

- Drama.

- I thought that too, but then it may be a violation of his personal rights to do so.

- The moments were different. Titan was safely in dock and Picard and Riker were clearly there 'hat in hand.' Plus, I think not only does Shaw like order and orders, but I don't think he is suited for the confrontation they were facing. Add to that, that when Picard finally exerted his authority, retired or not, he did it with a clear command presence that Shaw is lacking. He fell into line.

As for protecting one man, that is there job, Picard's son or not. That Shaw was willing to just give anyone away to a violent mercenary also shows he's not suited for the big chair. And the fact that Picard was even prevaricating on it was surprising to me. It shouldn't have taken Jack's parentage to help make the right decision.

- don't know

- no idea

- I think Vadic is confident that Titan will not be able to escape. And I think she likes a good game of cat'n'mouse. You can tell from her that she is having fun

And I would hardly say that they are (all) miserable.

Picard was feeling bored and looking for a new adventure, presumably with Laris.

Riker may be having some troubles at home, but that doesn't mean miserable.

Seven is, because she's under the command of an obvious bigot and that seems to be aggravating the feeling of being tied down by  Starfleet rules and regulations. I'm hoping she get's Titan before the end of the season, as I think she is a person who does much better when in control, rather than following along.

But if they all had happy-go-lucky lives, that would be pretty boring, and not really realistic.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Thom

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, JB0 said:

Madness. More than anything else, THIS makes me want Picard to have not happened.

If anything, I find it to be the only believable part of Star Trek: Picard's character development.

After two decades of high concept sci-fi life-or-death shenanigans, the crew collectively says "**** it, I'm going to go somewhere quiet for a while."

 

 

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

This season seems to be better than the prior one so far, which isn't saying much. But the absolute worst part of the most recent episode is the way that someone on the bridge asked "What just happened?" in reaction to a very simple action sequence that the audience just saw clearly.

Damned by faint praise seems to be the order of the day for everyone who's not on the ViacomCBS/Paramount payroll directly or indirectly.

 

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Spoiler

Why did Amanda Plummer throw a ship at them rather than demonstrating some of that super-advanced weaponry she let them scan?

Conservation of drama.  Vadic's and her ship, the Shrike, aren't quite Shinzon and the Scimitar... but they're certainly copying his homework.  Going everywhere in too much leather?  Check.  Massive spiky warship that massively outguns the Federation ships in the story despite it stretching believability to do so?  Check.  An army of horror movie extra gimps in pleather with no humanizing traits whatsoever?  Check.

Clearly the Titan-A is going to get REKT at some point in this story similar to the Enterprise-E or the Kelvin Enterprise.  I have a suspicion they're going to find themselves rescued by whatever the new Enterprise is and commendeer that.

 

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Spoiler

Why did Amanda Plummer give them an hour to think it over? Did someone from CBS ask her to extend the season from 9 episodes to 10?

 

Fry: "It took an hour to write, I thought it'd take an hour to read!"

 

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Spoiler

Why didn't someone, especially Riker, who was putting forth the theory himself, just scan Jack and confirm his parentage? This would have let them skip that hour too, so maybe CBS asked him not to think of it.

It's especially glaring because they more or less did exactly that for the last person who claimed to be a relative of Jean-Luc Picard's (Praetor Shinzon).

 

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Spoiler

Why did Shaw suddenly start obeying Picard's orders once Jack was confirmed as his son? The call he made (paraphrased: "This guy isn't worth the lives of the people under my command") is one I don't think we'd have heard from Picard, or any ante-Kurtzman ST captain, but it's a reasonable and defensible one. Why does Jack's parentage short-circuit his decision process too?

Office politics.  While this version of Jean-Luc Picard may be retired, undead, and a complete arsehole, he's still Starfleet royalty.

Spoiler

"I got Jean-Luc Picard's son killed."

... is a career-limiting move if ever there was one.  While Captain Shaw is clearly the Only Sane Man in this series at present and has very little time for Picard and Riker's BS, he is probably career-minded enough to know that Picard and Riker could still ruin him for letting Jack die.  Even if Jack is actually a wanted criminal.

 

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Spoiler

Speaking of scanning Jack, why did nobody check him for nifty escape tools before throwing him in the brig?

Now THAT'S on-brand for TNG.

How many times did folks escape from the Enterprise-D's brig on Worf's watch because they failed to check them for concealed gimmicks and gadgets?  The first prison break in TNG had security fail to catch that the Klingon renegades were carrying a whole-ass disruptor pistol in their clothes.

 

10 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Spoiler

Why did Shaw wait until after Seven gave him advice that was apparently worthwhile enough for him to follow before relieving her of duty?

Because this show runs on protagonist-centered morality.  Even though any reasonable viewer would be thinking Shaw is actually a pretty reasonable, if somewhat stiff, captain we are supposed to think he's The Arsehole because he's nominally opposed to Jean-Luc Picard despite Picard lying, breaking regulations, etc. and technically not actually being Jean-Luc Picard.

 

11 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Spoiler

Why, when the Titan-A awkwardly took a few potshots at Amanda Plummer and then ran slowly for a dust cloud, did Amanda sit there chortling for a while before ordering pursuit? Why didn't she follow through on her threat to use some of that advanced weaponry?

Because that's how ship-to-ship combat worked in the last two TNG movies.

Picard's ship runs away, and the villain ship leisurely chases.

 

11 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Picard tried and (in his mind) failed to prevent the Federation from backsliding into isolationism, and watched them stand idly by in the face of an enormous humanitarian romulanitarian crisis. He quits in disgust.

Oh, it's far dumber than that... partly because protagonist-centered morality is so heavily in play, and partly because Picard has devolved into a very self-serving and manipulative person.

Sure, Jean-Luc Picard was being very noble spending every last bit of political capital he'd accrued over twenty years as the captain of the Federation flagship to get that relief fleet built.  But along the way he seems to have forgotten that:

1. The Romulans are the Federation's oldest enemy.  So much so that the Federation was founded shortly after the Earth-Romulan War partly to provide a common defense against further Romulan aggression.  It's hardly surprising that many Federation worlds that suffered under Romulan hands would be resistant to the idea of saving their mortal enemy.
2. The Federation has absolutely no reason to trust the Romulans.  Not only had the Romulans historically sided with multiple Federation enemies including the Klingons and the Dominion, they were actively engaged in espionage against the Federation and just two years previously had attempted to murder Picard himself for his blood and only narrowly been prevented from deploying a biogenic weapon in a genocidal attack on Earth itself.
3. The Romulan Senate was clearly and unambiguously telling the Federation that it did not want help.
4. The relief fleet was destroyed in a terrorist attack that wiped out the Federation's oldest and largest shipyard, so Starfleet probably could not have caved to Picard's childish demands even if they wanted to.

Picard's resignation from Starfleet and retirement to the family vineyard for over a decade was basically a product of him throwing a temper tantrum over being told that he can't divert resources from worlds all over the Federation (again) to interfere in the affairs of a sovereign power that explicitly and on no uncertain terms told him to get lost and that they neither need nor want his help.

Of course, extra levels in stupid are taken with both Picard and Picard apparently forgetting the Romulan Star Empire is a Star Empire older than the Federation and rivaling it for size with hundreds of inhabited worlds and that the Romulans should have had no difficulty evacuating their own people without outside help via the Romulan Navy that rivals Starfleet for size and power.  Losing Romulus itself should be little more than a mild inconvenience.

Spoiler

This particular writer's brain fart seems to happen A LOT in NuTrek.  Like destroying Vulcan in Star Trek 2009 supposedly making Vulcans an endangered species despite the Vulcans having a large number of worlds under their control or blowing up Qo'nos being enough to destroy the Klingon Empire despite the Empire being nearly as large as the Federation, having many previous stories set on or above other Klingon worlds (esp. Khitomer), and having a backup/wartime capital on Ty'gokor mentioned many times previously.

Bonus levels in stupid are awarded for the fact that both the showrunners and tie-in novels run with the idea that the Romulan supernova wasn't natural.  Like the Pakleds in Lower Decks, the Romulans accidentally destroyed their own homeworld while testing treaty-banned weaponry they intended to use against the Federation.  Unlike the Pakleds, the many Romulan officials can't claim congenital stupidity as a defense for destroying their own planet.  This gets dumber still in that Picard and the Federation Council are aware of this... and Picard is still somehow surprised that the Federation Council is unwilling to bankrupt countless worlds in the name of saving an enemy that was trying to genocide those very same worlds all of like fifteen minutes ago.

 

12 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Riker and Troi lose their child to a utopia-resistant illness.

A child, but even then it's only relevant to the plot because it's another reason for Picard to feel guilty because he feels personally responsible for the ban on the technology which could've saved the child even though the ban has no connection to his actions in any way, shape, or form and is actually something he argued unsuccessfully for years previously in "Measure of a Man".  

 

12 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

We haven't seen much of Geordi and Worf, so stay tuned to see their tales of angst and woe.

They've told us what Geordi was up to... he was a yard foreman at Utopia Planetia.  Fans were understandably rather upset by this, since until the announcement that Picard had cast Levar Burton some fans assumed that Geordi had died in the synth revolt.

 

12 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Seven quit to be some sort of vigilante, got to see her son-figure vivisected, and then joined Starfleet only to end up under a commanding officer who clearly makes her deeply uncomfortable.

Seven was never a Starfleet officer prior to Picard.  She was just a member of Janeway's crew on Voyager in an informal capacity.

Icheb's death was pointless story-wise, but the main reason is probably that Icheb's original actor (Manu Intiraymi) is more than a bit of an arsehole and they were unwilling to cast him despite Icheb being fairly integral to Seven's character.

The whole bigotry-against-the-Borg thing is pretty pointless considering how well-established it is that Borg drones are victims of the most profound violation of the self.  Starfleet were previously shown to be pretty darn compassionate towards ex-Borg, so this is a jarring and nonsensical shift.

 

 

1 hour ago, Thom said:

Is this a different ship than the one Riker left Enterprise to command? I haven't been able to find any thing that states it is or it isn't. Yes, Lower Decks has a Luna class Titan and I think Prodigy may as well, but are these set in the same universe or are they doing their own thing? Was the Luna-Titan destroyed and Riker and Co just moved to the Neo-Titan, and then he retired? Considering that Shaw had to remove Riker's mix-tape from the Neo-Titan's computers, that's the one I'm going with. And considering how hero ships usually go out, I'm assuming Luna-Titan went out in a true blaze of glory.

That seems to be the direction the showrunners are taking, yeah... that the Luna-class Titan was destroyed SOMEHOW and this fugly thing was its replacement.  The main indicator is that they kept the registry number of the Luna-class version that was first used for the Star Trek Titan novel series the Luna-class was designed for.

 

1 hour ago, Thom said:

But if they all had happy-go-lucky, that would be pretty boring, and not really realistic.

That's the thing, though... Star Trek: the Next Generation was the story of an enlightened future and more advanced humanity where everyone was able to lead a fulfilling life on their own terms in a post-scarcity society.  It was very much a happy-go-lucky future most of the time.  So much so that, even as the series attempted to highlight some of the problems in society, the Federation is still presented as essentially utopian with the societal problems being on the frontier where a utopian standard of living hadn't taken hold yet.  This was a society where therapy to deal with traumatic experiences was not only normalized and accepted, but presented as easily accessible and highly effective too.

It's why Raffi's backstory makes no sense at all.  She was a Starfleet officer living on Earth and with a fairly high security clearance... but she was also a barely functioning addict whose substance abuse problems somehow went undiagnosed and untreated despite regular medical screenings required by her job?  She would've had to report to the CMO on every starship she boarded as a matter of course, and she was traveling all over hell's half-acre with Picard during the relief effort.  None of these highly-trained Starfleet doctors noticed Picard's aide de camp was a strung out junkie barely keeping it together amid paranoid episodes?  Admiral Picard was apparently the ONLY thing standing between Raffi and a bad conduct discharge.  Did NOBODY think to order her to therapy?  After she's dishonorably discharged, she's absolutely miserable and so deprived now that she *checks notes* lives in a private country residence with every modern convenience that also adjoins a state park where she can grow her own drugs and indulge as she sees fit without having to hold down a job or really do much of anything.  This is presented as abject misery that she blames Jean-Luc Picard for even though any sane viewer is going to look at this and say it's a product of her own actions and a fair few would say her standard of living is far higher than their own.

And this is repeated over and over again.  These people DECIDED to resign from Starfleet and go live in the sticks.  Yet they all have to be miserable.  Nobody thinks to go see a therapist?  One of them IS a therapist.  

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's the thing, though... Star Trek: the Next Generation was the story of an enlightened future and more advanced humanity where everyone was able to lead a fulfilling life on their own terms in a post-scarcity society.  It was very much a happy-go-lucky future most of the time.  So much so that, even as the series attempted to highlight some of the problems in society, the Federation is still presented as essentially utopian with the societal problems being on the frontier where a utopian standard of living hadn't taken hold yet.  This was a society where therapy to deal with traumatic experiences was not only normalized and accepted, but presented as easily accessible and highly effective too.

It's why Raffi's backstory makes no sense at all.  She was a Starfleet officer living on Earth and with a fairly high security clearance... but she was also a barely functioning addict whose substance abuse problems somehow went undiagnosed and untreated despite regular medical screenings required by her job?  She would've had to report to the CMO on every starship she boarded as a matter of course, and she was traveling all over hell's half-acre with Picard during the relief effort.  None of these highly-trained Starfleet doctors noticed Picard's aide de camp was a strung out junkie barely keeping it together amid paranoid episodes?  Admiral Picard was apparently the ONLY thing standing between Raffi and a bad conduct discharge.  Did NOBODY think to order her to therapy?  After she's dishonorably discharged, she's absolutely miserable and so deprived now that she *checks notes* lives in a private country residence with every modern convenience that also adjoins a state park where she can grow her own drugs and indulge as she sees fit without having to hold down a job or really do much of anything.  This is presented as abject misery that she blames Jean-Luc Picard for even though any sane viewer is going to look at this and say it's a product of her own actions and a fair few would say her standard of living is far higher than their own.

And this is repeated over and over again.  These people DECIDED to resign from Starfleet and go live in the sticks.  Yet they all have to be miserable.  Nobody thinks to go see a therapist?  One of them IS a therapist.  

Junkies have been known to hide their habit, and they can be pretty good at it, at least until everything finally blows up. And apparently Raffi turned to drugs along with her husband, which would be a hellish co-dependency all the way to the bottom. And yes, though it is a utopian society (or was during TNG) that doesn't mean everyone succeeds in it - or chooses to remain in it. People are often jarring and non-sensicle.

And again, I see only two people currently being miserable, and that's Seven and Raffi. Seven because she's serving under an officer with a grudge who goes so far as to force her to use her pre-Borg name (how that's possible, I don't know) and apparently spends most of his time in his quarters while still managing to micro-manage her every move. And Raffi whose out on the fringe, alone except for an text-messenger and surrounded by the very things she's trying to keep away from.

[MikeRoz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, it's far dumber than that... partly because protagonist-centered morality is so heavily in play, and partly because Picard has devolved into a very self-serving and manipulative person.

Sure, Jean-Luc Picard was being very noble spending every last bit of political capital he'd accrued over twenty years as the captain of the Federation flagship to get that relief fleet built.  But along the way he seems to have forgotten that:

1. The Romulans are the Federation's oldest enemy.  So much so that the Federation was founded shortly after the Earth-Romulan War partly to provide a common defense against further Romulan aggression.  It's hardly surprising that many Federation worlds that suffered under Romulan hands would be resistant to the idea of saving their mortal enemy.
2. The Federation has absolutely no reason to trust the Romulans.  Not only had the Romulans historically sided with multiple Federation enemies including the Klingons and the Dominion, they were actively engaged in espionage against the Federation and just two years previously had attempted to murder Picard himself for his blood and only narrowly been prevented from deploying a biogenic weapon in a genocidal attack on Earth itself.
3. The Romulan Senate was clearly and unambiguously telling the Federation that it did not want help.
4. The relief fleet was destroyed in a terrorist attack that wiped out the Federation's oldest and largest shipyard, so Starfleet probably could not have caved to Picard's childish demands even if they wanted to.

Picard's resignation from Starfleet and retirement to the family vineyard for over a decade was basically a product of him throwing a temper tantrum over being told that he can't divert resources from worlds all over the Federation (again) to interfere in the affairs of a sovereign power that explicitly and on no uncertain terms told him to get lost and that they neither need nor want his help.

Of course, extra levels in stupid are taken with both Picard and Picard apparently forgetting the Romulan Star Empire is a Star Empire older than the Federation and rivaling it for size with hundreds of inhabited worlds and that the Romulans should have had no difficulty evacuating their own people without outside help via the Romulan Navy that rivals Starfleet for size and power.  Losing Romulus itself should be little more than a mild inconvenience.

I really, really don't feel like making myself rewatch S1 to verify the veracity of this, but the Memory Alpha wiki records these events a bit differently:

Quote

The Romulan Star Empire asked the United Federation of Planets for help with evacuation efforts, and Starfleet agreed to provide aid at the behest of Jean-Luc Picard. Picard left the USS Enterprise-E to command a rescue armada of ten thousand Wallenberg-class transports, with the intent to relocate 900 million Romulan citizens to worlds outside the blast of the supernova. He would later compare this rescue effort to the Dunkirk evacuation of World War II. (PIC: "Remembrance")

The plan was not popular in the Federation. Many felt that there were better uses for the Federation's resources than aiding its oldest enemy, and fourteen member species even threatened to secede if aid was given to the Romulan Empire. The final blow came on April 5th, 2385, when the evacuation fleet was destroyed before it could depart from Mars by a group of compromised synths during a surprise attack on the planet, secretly orchestrated by a secret Romulan cabal known as the Zhat Vash. Starfleet subsequently called off the rescue and abandoned the Romulans, a move that drove Picard to resign in protest. (PIC: "Remembrance", "Maps and Legends", "The End is the Beginning", "Broken Pieces")

It seems, as far as PIC tells it, the Romulans wanted the help, a decent amount of the Federation was onboard, and all was going swimmingly until the ZV nutjobs doomed untold millions of their own people in a play to get the Federation to ban Synths. (They probably could have gotten the exact same result if they'd done the same attack after the fleet had launched and saved a bunch of Romulans, but what do I know?) It sounds like the attack was part excuse to cave to the isolationist faction and back out of an unpopular commitment to help an enemy, and part logistical necessity/nightmare (I assume that Starfleet absolutely still could have helped, but without the purpose-built ships it would have been less effectual and would have weakened defensive and scientific efforts elsewhere). Picard, being very much of the do-the-right-thing-even-if-it-hurts-us mold, was understandably incensed by this.

This is the same ground tread by ST VI, but nuTrek being nuTrek, everything has to fall apart in such a way as to cause maximal misery and angst for our cast. IMO, the Starfleet of the prior series would have still given Picard at least a ship, maybe a few. The Picard of the prior series, for his part, would be upset that Starfleet wasn't doing more, but he'd never pass up the opportunity to use his position to do good in order to make a political statement.

The thing that makes even less sense to me is, if you wiki-walk your way first to the Romulan Star Empire, and then to the Romulan Free State, it's claimed that relations between the Romulan Free State and the Federation ended up being more friendly? This is after the Federation very publicly went back on a commitment to help? Very forgiving of the survivors, I guess.

And yes, I agree that the Romulan Star Empire should have been able to handle the task of evacuation and recovery mostly on their own. Writers of both eras often made the mistake of forgetting that both the Romulan and Klingon empires would have had numerous subject races, but it's rare you hear about anything other than colonies.

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They've told us what Geordi was up to... he was a yard foreman at Utopia Planetia.  Fans were understandably rather upset by this, since until the announcement that Picard had cast Levar Burton some fans assumed that Geordi had died in the synth revolt.

Yes, but we haven't heard about how his wife was mentally and physically abusive or died tragically or is actually Amanda Plummer wearing a rubber mask, or something. Merely running a shipyard is not sufficiently miserable and angsty.

[sh9000]

https://fb.watch/iO2ex0bEDm/?mibextid=5zvaxg

First contact with Michael Dorn.

Edited February 27, 2023 by sh9000

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Thom said:

Junkies have been known to hide their habit, and they can be pretty good at it, at least until everything finally blows up. And apparently Raffi turned to drugs along with her husband, which would be a hellish co-dependency all the way to the bottom. And yes, though it is a utopian society (or was during TNG) that doesn't mean everyone succeeds in it - or chooses to remain in it. People are often jarring and non-sensicle.

True, but where it gets a bit hard to swallow is that Raffi somehow concealed her substance abuse problem despite working an environment that mandates frequent medical exams using technology far more advanced and precise than today's modern drug screenings.  An environment where, I might add, her superiors incl. any of the medical officers which she'd have had to submit to examination by could have ordered her into therapy and would have been obligated to report her substance abuse problem.

 

 

3 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

I really, really don't feel like making myself rewatch S1 to verify the veracity of this, but the Memory Alpha wiki records these events a bit differently:

Yeah, Memory Alpha doesn't include the aforementioned additional backstory that was displaced into the official tie-in novels.

The Last Best Hope is kind of a sh*tshow that gets into just how stupid the whole situation was.  The Romulan government most of its time denying there was any need for Picard's aggressive evacuation measures, downplaying the problem, and having the Tal Shiar vanish anyone who talked about the actual urgency of the matter.  A fair amount is depicted of the political opposition to the effort, with Picard effectively losing in the diplomatic arena to a semiliterate political shyster from a remote farming world who raised a stink about a relief effort diverting resources from Federation worlds.

 

3 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

This is the same ground tread by ST VI, but nuTrek being nuTrek, everything has to fall apart in such a way as to cause maximal misery and angst for our cast. IMO, the Starfleet of the prior series would have still given Picard at least a ship, maybe a few. The Picard of the prior series, for his part, would be upset that Starfleet wasn't doing more, but he'd never pass up the opportunity to use his position to do good in order to make a political statement.

That Jean-Luc Picard threatens to resign if he doesn't get his way, then meekly does resign when Starfleet tells him to go pound sand is probably one of the biggest out-of-character moments related to the series... alongside him spending a decade pouting about it in France.

 

3 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

The thing that makes even less sense to me is, if you wiki-walk your way first to the Romulan Star Empire, and then to the Romulan Free State, it's claimed that relations between the Romulan Free State and the Federation ended up being more friendly? This is after the Federation very publicly went back on a commitment to help? Very forgiving of the survivors, I guess.

Maybe the Romulan Free State remembers the amount of BS the Romulan senate and Tal Shiar pulled in an attempt to obstruct the evacuation that got so many people killed.

Not that they're forgiving, but the Federation are simply the lesser sh*theads by comparison.

 

3 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

And yes, I agree that the Romulan Star Empire should have been able to handle the task of evacuation and recovery mostly on their own. Writers of both eras often made the mistake of forgetting that both the Romulan and Klingon empires would have had numerous subject races, but it's rare you hear about anything other than colonies.

You'd think they'd have at least remembered the Romulans, like the Klingons, have a massive fleet that could easily have done the job.  They fought on an even footing with the Federation and Klingon Empire in the Dominion War.

[Thom]

17 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

...

True, but where it gets a bit hard to swallow is that Raffi somehow concealed her substance abuse problem despite working an environment that mandates frequent medical exams using technology far more advanced and precise than today's modern drug screenings.  An environment where, I might add, her superiors incl. any of the medical officers which she'd have had to submit to examination by could have ordered her into therapy and would have been obligated to report her substance abuse problem.

...

If there's a better way to detect a drug addict, then there's a better way to get around it.😉

 

And I agree whole-hardheartedly about the Romulans not being that at risk from the super nova. Writers conveniently forget that they are a multi-system empire, with hundreds of worlds upon which to relocate their capitol. Same as in ST IV, ST 2009, as mentions previously. They take the easy way out, rather than putting in the work for a convincing and solid history for their story to reside in. So far Season 3 is staying away from that which is for the better.

 

[camk4evr]

14 hours ago, Thom said:

Is this a different ship than the one Riker left Enterprise to command? I haven't been able to find any thing that states it is or it isn't. Yes, Lower Decks has a Luna class Titan and I think Prodigy may as well, but are these set in the same universe or are they doing their own thing? Was the Luna-Titan destroyed and Riker and Co just moved to the Neo-Titan, and then he retired? Considering that Shaw had to remove Riker's mix-tape from the Neo-Titan's computers, that's the one I'm going with. And considering how hero ships usually go out, I'm assuming Luna-Titan went out in a true blaze of glory.

As for characters having normal lives after exemplary events, there's nothing wrong with that, and in fact would be quite normal. TV fictionalizes and expands on momentous events for the dramatic effect, but if a person had to live with a series of world/universe altering events every week, they'd be burned out and retiring early! So yes, after Nemesis, they went their separate ways and had normal lives and careers, for the most part. 

Picard has had at least four command slots, which is a lot for any one person, esp if they are all long duration commands like Stargazer and Enterprise D-and E, which meant he was in command of ships for 46 years! That he decided to finally accept promotion and do something else is not surprising. 

Riker went on to command Titan (perhaps two ships) before becoming an Admiral, and after the death of his son retired to concentrate on family. He then accepted demotion to captain in order to command the Zheng He, and then I guess went back into retirement.  

LaForge may have had a command or two in the intervening twenty years, as we know some alternate timeline versions of him did, I guess including being a yard foreman at Utopia Planetia, before becoming curator of the fleet museum. 

Beverly Crusher, we don't know yet why she hid the fact that she and Picard had a son, or why she disappeared for twenty years. I'm hoping there is a very good reason for it! But we do know in that intervening time she was preforming humanitarian efforts, both legal and not while raising their son.

People go on and do different things, that's just normal. Even the most elite have to take down time.

  Reveal hidden contents

- I would say they weren't so much explaining tractor beams to the bridge crew, as they were to the audience. You and I know what they are and what they do, but there has to be some level of explanation or laymen-viewers may get lost.

- I think Vadic threw the ship at Titan because she likes blunt force trauma. (joke) But it's possible that most of the weaponry on her ship would do too much damage to the Titan and possibly kill the man she's after. Maybe the tractor beam was the most non-lethal she's got.

- Drama.

- I thought that too, but then it may be a violation of his personal rights to do so.

- The moments were different. Titan was safely in dock and Picard and Riker were clearly there 'hat in hand.' Plus, I think not only does Shaw like order and orders, but I don't think he is suited for the confrontation they were facing. Add to that, that when Picard finally exerted his authority, retired or not, he did it with a clear command presence that Shaw is lacking. He fell into line.

As for protecting one man, that is there job, Picard's son or not. That Shaw was willing to just give anyone away to a violent mercenary also shows he's not suited for the big chair. And the fact that Picard was even prevaricating on it was surprising to me. It shouldn't have taken Jack's parentage to help make the right decision.

- don't know

- no idea

- I think Vadic is confident that Titan will not be able to escape. And I think she likes a good game of cat'n'mouse. You can tell from her that she is having fun

And I would hardly say that they are (all) miserable.

Picard was feeling bored and looking for a new adventure, presumably with Laris.

Riker may be having some troubles at home, but that doesn't mean miserable.

Seven is, because she's under the command of an obvious bigot and that seems to be aggravating the feeling of being tied down by  Starfleet rules and regulations. I'm hoping she get's Titan before the end of the season, as I think she is a person who does much better when in control, rather than following along.

But if they all had happy-go-lucky lives, that would be pretty boring, and not really realistic.

 

According to Star Trek: Picard Logs, supplemntary videos released on Instagram (and can be found on youtube) and suammarized on Memory Alpha the Luna class Starship Titan (NCC-80102) was pulled from service, due to extensive damage. While she was undergoing refit (overseen by Shaw) the design changed and the Luna class ship was converted into a Constitution III Class ship (slang. Neo-Constitution) and given the new Registry NCC-80102-A. Since these changes are way more extensive than those given to the Enterprise make it go from TOS style to MP  style I can only say 'Why?' Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to scrap her and build a new ship? Why give it a new registry if it's a refit? Honestly, I like the design but this makes no sense.

[Thom]

8 hours ago, camk4evr said:

According to Star Trek: Picard Logs, supplemntary videos released on Instagram (and can be found on youtube) and suammarized on Memory Alpha the Luna class Starship Titan (NCC-80102) was pulled from service, due to extensive damage. While she was undergoing refit (overseen by Shaw) the design changed and the Luna class ship was converted into a Constitution III Class ship (slang. Neo-Constitution) and given the new Registry NCC-80102-A. Since these changes are way more extensive than those given to the Enterprise make it go from TOS style to MP  style I can only say 'Why?' Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to scrap her and build a new ship? Why give it a new registry if it's a refit? Honestly, I like the design but this makes no sense.

Yeah, I don't see how you can refit a Luna class into the look of the Neo-Titan. Unless they explain it out on the show, my head-canon will stick with the Luna-Titan being scrapped and Riker assuming command of the Neo-Titan before his promotion.

It's an unneeded bit of confusion that would not have been had they just used the Luna class or simply renamed the Titan-A. Either one, and there would be no problem. OR had they just stayed on the Stargazer!

Edited February 27, 2023 by Thom

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, camk4evr said:

According to Star Trek: Picard Logs, supplemntary videos released on Instagram (and can be found on youtube) and suammarized on Memory Alpha the Luna class Starship Titan (NCC-80102) was pulled from service, due to extensive damage. While she was undergoing refit (overseen by Shaw) the design changed and the Luna class ship was converted into a Constitution III Class ship (slang. Neo-Constitution) and given the new Registry NCC-80102-A.

... that is a strong contender not only for the dumbest thing I've heard all year, but also as an all-time "dumbest thing I've ever heard from Star Trek" in general.

Those two ships have NOTHING in common appearance-wise and that's not even how registry numbers work!  If the ship was refitted, it would keep the same number.  The only time that a refit has led to a new registry was in Discovery when the titular 23rd century ship was refitted to 32nd century tech levels and issued a new registry to conceal that fact that the ship and its crew were unlawful time travelers that the Federation was harboring in violation of various treaties banning the use of time travel.

The Luna-class USS Titan and Constitution III-class look nothing alike.  At all.  They have NOTHING in common.  They don't even appear to be anywhere close to the same size!  This explanation not only doesn't make sense, it's so transparently and obviously stupid that I'm flabbergasted ANYONE approved it to go to print.

 

10 hours ago, camk4evr said:

Since these changes are way more extensive than those given to the Enterprise make it go from TOS style to MP  style I can only say 'Why?' Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to scrap her and build a new ship? Why give it a new registry if it's a refit? Honestly, I like the design but this makes no sense.

By far!  This explanation is complete nonsense.  

[camk4evr]

I know, right? If they had just said that the Titan had gotten irreperably damaged in the Pakled war and said the Titan A was XYZ class ship refitted into the Connie III I could accept it since I would have assumed it's original spaceframe looked similar to the basic shape as a Constitution as it's a common Starfleet esthetic. But turning a Luna class into this and calling it a refit...Well let's just say I've had to edit this post three or four times to keep from devolving into a series of swear words. I mean, seriously, the TOS to MP refit of the original NCC-1701 Enterprise makes more sense by several orders of magnetude (mind you, part of the reason I'm so accepting of that is that the MP design is one of my favourite Star Trek designs).

 

All that said I do like the Titan A's design.

[JB0]

4 hours ago, camk4evr said:

I mean, seriously, the TOS to MP refit of the original NCC-1701 Enterprise makes more sense by several orders of magnetude (mind you, part of the reason I'm so accepting of that is that the MP design is one of my favourite Star Trek designs).

One of my favs too.

I do think it is interesting to note that after the movie came out; some  publications insisted the Enterprise actually changed class during her refit(to the Enterprise-class, naturally).

So this bit of silliness isn't new to Trek, even if they've stretched it farther this time.

Edited February 28, 2023 by JB0

[Thom]

2 hours ago, JB0 said:

One of my favs too.

I do think it is interesting to note that after the movie came out; some  publications insisted the Enterprise actually changed class during her refit(to the Enterprise-class, naturally).

So this bit of silliness isn't new to Trek, even if they've stretched it farther this time.

I can see that happening, as the Enterprise was nearly completely rebuilt, as all that is similar between TOS and TMP is the general layout. She was basically a brand new ship and the first of her new class. That being said, I still refer to it as the Constitution class. Although, would it be more accurate to say Constitution II class?