Bumblebee (Transformers... 6?)

[Keith]

It definately felt like this movie was made from all of the studio notes that were "no's" from the first film. If this had come out in 2007, the only complaints would have been the rapid fire 80's soundrack "tried too hard."

I loved it, and am glad they finally made it. Keep in mind, I Still enjoy the other (5?) for what they are, but wow, It was amazing to see one where the robots and humans were actually interacting & talking together in the same plain.

[M'Kyuun]

My wife and I saw it yesterday, and we both enjoyed it. I detest the Bay movies, and I had strong doubts about this in the beginning, especially when the aesthetic still mirrored the Bay-former look, albeit toned down. I'm happy to say my initial impressions were wrong. What really made this movie stand apart was that it made you both like and care about Bee and Charlie and their growing friendship, which was similar to Spike's and Bee's friendship in the G1 toon. The Decepticon characters, too, had fitting personalities (Shatter, voiced by Angela Basset, embodied the deception aspect of the eponymous baddies). It was a fun movie, non-offensive, with humor that was actually funny without being ribald or cringeworthy, and full of heart. The swearing was pretty minimal. It very much has the feel of 80's Spielberg. If I have any negatives to say about the script, it was Cena's stereotypical soldier that was a bit over the top.  Alas, I suppose it's fitting for a modern movie taking cues from 80's movies. The transformations are used to good effect, even if they still defy mechanical logic. But, just like the G1 toon,  which fudged transformations all the time, I was carried away by the story and characters to the point where I didn't really care, and honestly, that's what made the movie so enjoyable. Travis wants to do a movie set entirely on Cybertron, and based on this film, I vehemently hope he gets the greenlight, as they've finally found a director who could do it justice, IMHO. I wish they'd hired him back in '07, as I think he would've made the TF live action film(s) many of us envisioned.  

[sh9000]

Hope this movie makes more money.

[peter]

Coverage on this film is finally starting to pop up on youtube reviews like Screenrant and Looper....still waiting for Nerdist and others to get to it.

[spacemanoeuvres]

It’s a good movie. I hope ticket sales pickup through word of mouth. Would definitely checkout additional installments in the same universe by Travis Knight. 

[Old_Nash]

On 12/30/2018 at 2:19 PM, sh9000 said:

Hope this movie makes more money.

Great OST^^

But why ths The Touch Power Mix and not this version?

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Old_Nash

[kajnrig]

Just saw it today by myself because literally no one I know wanted to see it.  Did anyone else get unexpected The Shape of Water vibes from this? The inter-species romance angle is absurdly strong here, only stopping short of snogging (symbolic or otherwise) due to the need to maintain a PG-13 rating. The "nerdy love interest next door" subplot is so nothing, especially in comparison. Like every time the boy was on screen I just wanted to shoo him away. "Get out of here! You're ruining the moment!" while this girl and her car get reeeeaaaally intimate to the tunes of Unchained Melody. All they needed was a pottery wheel and some clay...

The rest of the movie was fine, too. it was surprisingly decent if shallow. Not Transformers: Prime tier but decent, which is more than I can say for any of the other movies. But that one single aspect threw me for such a loop. I did not at all expect them to go in that direction and be that unapologetic about it. But then again, it's hardly the first time they've flirted with the idea.

EDIT:

Seems I'm not the only one.

https://www.inverse.com/article/51929-bumblebee-is-2018-shape-of-water-romance-with-an-autobot

While Steinfeld’s Charlie doesn’t fall into that sort of explicit, adult love with Bee, the Bumblebee is loaded with so much transparent symbolism it’s difficult not to think of the movie primarily a romance, albeit one with space robots and cop car destruction. ...

Bumblebee isn’t a sexual movie, but it is a sensual one. Like The Shape of Water, the bond between the film’s heroes transcends limits of language, body, even species. But while The Shape of Water is more overtly a romance; Bumblebee only walks up to that distinction. It doesn’t demand much from its audience beyond an open mind, but if you pay it closer attention (unheard of for any previous Transformers movie), you’re rewarded with warmth instead of the usual empty spectacle.

Edited January 2, 2019 by kajnrig

[M'Kyuun]

I hadn't really thought of the Shape of Water analogy, as there was, if not explicitly shown, a definite implication that the lady and her beloved creature consummated their relationship, and the tone of that movie was certainly darker. But then again, there were hints that perhaps they had more in common genetically, too. Neither is true for Bumblebee, although it does layer on the affection between Charlie and Bee like wedding cake frosting. However, I think it was done tactfully, and it made sense in the context of these two characters who are essentially loners by circumstance, brought together by chance, even if it is scripted chance. I certainly enjoyed the lightheartedness and the bonding between them far more than the superficiality of the '07 film between Sam and Bee, where Bee is more of a possession than a friend to Sam. At least Knight made Bee feel like a person in this film, and that's an accomplishment Bay couldn't do in five. I suppose, too, that it makes a none too subtle statement that love transcends all barriers. It worked for E.T., and this is a similar story from a young adult's POV.

Spoiler

I do have to say that the boy next door was an unnecessary element, as their relationship never matured to the level of Charlie's and Bee's. I guess he was inserted for humor, for what it's worth, and as a potential relationship for Charlie once Bee moved on to complete his mission. In other words, a deflection from the idea that Bee might become a romantic interest, which I think was well beyond the scope of what Knight wanted to convey. Remember Sam and the Decepti-chick in his college dorm room with the robo tongue-tacle? Exactly. But then again, I would expect something like that from Bay.

Emotional stuff aside, I wish Cena's character hadn't been written so one dimensionally as the gung-ho stereotypical soldier bent on killing all robots, at least until the end. The other thing that bugged me, and this is endemic to just about all movies where military is concerned, is the ease to which our intrepid heroes gain access into the base and easily locate the facility where the action is happening without guidance or pesky security interference. Coming from a military background, no and no. It's just something I always find irksome in films where there's a necessity to enter a military facility.

 

[David Hingtgen]

20 hours ago, kajnrig said:

 Did anyone else get unexpected The Shape of Water vibes from this?

https://www.inverse.com/article/51929-bumblebee-is-2018-shape-of-water-romance-with-an-autobot

 

There was no freaky cat-eating scene, so no. 

[Thom]

I didn't get any romantic vibe at all between Bee and Charlie! Very much more than a friendship certainly than anything else. As for Memo(?) I thought he was good and there was where there was some cushing going on. Loved the part at the end when he starts to

Spoiler

hold her hand and she says she's not ready for that yet.

[mikeszekely]

43 minutes ago, Thom said:

I didn't get any romantic vibe at all between Bee and Charlie! Very much more than a friendship certainly than anything else. As for Memo(?) I thought he was good and there was where there was some cushing going on. Loved the part at the end when he starts to

  Hide contents

hold her hand and she says she's not ready for that yet.

Yeah, I think it's definitely more ET than The Shape of the Water.  I feel like people might be reading too much much into Charlie's relationship with Memo, and maybe making a love triangle where one wasn't really intended.

Speaking of Charlie and Memo... are we sure that's how it's spelled in the movie?  Because this can't be a coincidence...

[Dobber]

Really didn’t get a romantic vibe between Charlie and Bee at all either. Seems odd to me that people are thinking that???

Chris

[kajnrig]

7 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

But then again, there were hints that perhaps [Shape of Water protags] had more in common genetically, too.

I can see where that conclusion comes from, but to me it always seemed more symbolic than anything. But that's neither here nor there. Moving on.

7 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Neither is true for Bumblebee, although it does layer on the affection between Charlie and Bee like wedding cake frosting. However, I think it was done tactfully, and it made sense in the context of these two characters who are essentially loners by circumstance, brought together by chance, even if it is scripted chance. I certainly enjoyed the lightheartedness and the bonding between them far more than the superficiality of the '07 film between Sam and Bee, where Bee is more of a possession than a friend to Sam.

Yeah, I don't mean to imply that this ever goes to the same explicit levels as Shape of Water, just that it can very easily be read as leaning in that direction. I can just as easily see it being purely platonic but no less affectionate. As you say, love transcends all barriers.

1 hour ago, David Hingtgen said:

There was no freaky cat-eating scene, so no. 

Good point. Though Bee does "eat" Charlie's dad's car radio. Same?

1 hour ago, Thom said:

As for Memo(?) I thought he was good and there was where there was some cushing going on. Loved the part at the end when he starts to

  Reveal hidden contents

 hold her hand and she says she's not ready for that yet.

 

The crush felt very one-sided to me. It was obvious enough on his part. The reciprocation from Charlie, though... didn't seem to be there. She seemed to have eyes only for Bee, and vice versa. Memo makes an effort to comfort her, to find a seat in her inner circle of trust, but she consistently rebuffs those efforts in favor of opening up to Bee. See where the romance angle can be easily discerned? Bee is taking all the "romance movie tropes" that Memo should be taking. Bee is the one she shares heartfelt intimate... ahem... "touching sessions" with, he's the one who trusts her enough to be emotionally vulnerable in her presence and vice versa, he's the one who saves her and she saves him, so on and so forth...

So when, at the end of the movie, she and Memo are presented as having a burgeoning romance, it doesn't feel particularly... "earned," so to speak.

And... I mean, really. They had The Song From Ghost playing while a girl and her car bared their emotions to each other. That's not very subtle.

[M'Kyuun]

And I doubt "Unchained Melody" was a random choice for that scene, although Ghost this was not. And concerning the dude (Memo, or however it's spelled), the crush was obviously one-sided from start to finish. I have no problem with that, as the story was really about the relationship between Charlie and Bumblebee. I think Memo was in there to give her another human to relate to, who just happens to be a teen male, for humor, and to maybe soften the blow at the end when Bee goes off on his mission. At least this way, she has a friend to share the experience with and confide in, with relationship potential. It was also nice to see Charlie becoming closer to her family, so in the end, amidst a sad separation, there's still support for Charlie on two fronts.

Seeing Bee driving next to a very G1 looking Prime was pretty sweet- I was all smiles. I'm hoping Knight will get the opportunity to make another film, and that Bay's influence will continue to wane unto the point of nonexistence. In Travis I trust.

[Firefox]

This is by far the better Transformers, finally I can say: "Up yours. Bayformers!"

[peter]

14 hours ago, Dobber said:

Really didn’t get a romantic vibe between Charlie and Bee at all either. Seems odd to me that people are thinking that???

Chris

Yup, this thread got a bit weird there for a bit.

[kajnrig]

17 hours ago, Dobber said:

Really didn’t get a romantic vibe between Charlie and Bee at all either. Seems odd to me that people are thinking that???

Chris

3 hours ago, peter said:

Yup, this thread got a bit weird there for a bit.

 I don't know what you're talking about...

 

[Thom]

On 1/2/2019 at 8:39 PM, kajnrig said:

The crush felt very one-sided to me. It was obvious enough on his part. The reciprocation from Charlie, though... didn't seem to be there. She seemed to have eyes only for Bee, and vice versa. Memo makes an effort to comfort her, to find a seat in her inner circle of trust, but she consistently rebuffs those efforts in favor of opening up to Bee. See where the romance angle can be easily discerned? Bee is taking all the "romance movie tropes" that Memo should be taking. Bee is the one she shares heartfelt intimate... ahem... "touching sessions" with, he's the one who trusts her enough to be emotionally vulnerable in her presence and vice versa, he's the one who saves her and she saves him, so on and so forth...

So when, at the end of the movie, she and Memo are presented as having a burgeoning romance, it doesn't feel particularly... "earned," so to speak.

And... I mean, really. They had The Song From Ghost playing while a girl and her car bared their emotions to each other. That's not very subtle.

Sure, the 'crush' was more in Memo's part, but I didn't get any feel of 'romance' between Charlie and Bee, no matter what song was playing. I didn't even notice it. When I watch it again I'll listen closer. As for the 'touching sessions' I just took it as a mechanic checking out problems.

Definitely ET though.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Thom

[Lexomatic]

I enjoyed the movie, and wasn't offended or mortified by it, and appreciated that I could follow the action; but nothing was surprising. Well, maybe the demise of Dropkick -- that was novel.

I detected these thematic or aesthetic similarities:

• The Iron Giant (youth without a father figure; Bee remembers he has weapons, and his eyes glow red)
• How to Train Your Dragon (Bee's skittish nature and flappy head-paddles)
• E.T. (alien captured by the government, and different aliens phone home, but otherwise not so much)
• Transformers 2007 (duh)
• Transformers Prime (Cliffjumper fares ... poorly)
• Star Trek: First Contact (the antagonists use green-glowing tech to improvise a transmitter)

I've got these criticisms:

• As with many movies these days, the script neglects to name the characters, which makes later discussion awkward. Scattorshot and Dropkick (S&D) were named once, I think, and Blitzwing-not-Starscream, not at all. The chief reason I can identify them is through discussion of the toys.
• The English-language text overlay on Bee's battle mask (S&D had the same thing) can be taken as metaphorical, but the Decepticon duo also spoke in English, thereby carelessly revealing their plan to Sector 7 Scientist Guy.
• Why did the Sector 7 vehicles have harpoons? They seemed surprised by Bee, but assuming they've got NBE 1/Project Iceman in the cellar, they're apparently prepared for the anytime-arrival of entities like Bee.
• When S&D are co-opting Earth's commsats, the one in the front-left is (I'm pretty sure) the NASA Magellan Venus probe (1989).

Also:

• Bee has the worst luck, doesn't he? Of all the places to make planetfall, he does so atop a squad of armed humans. Well, I suppose he could've picked the middle of the ocean.
• S&D as triple-changers -- their automobile transformations were worked out in detail, but every time they assumed aircraft mode, the scene was shot to obscure details. It's dark, or they're distant, or it's the narrowest profile.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Lexomatic

[kajnrig]

3 hours ago, Lexomatic said:

I've got these criticisms:

• As with many movies these days, the script neglects to name the characters, which makes later discussion awkward. Scattorshot and Dropkick (S&D) were named once, I think, and Blitzwing-not-Starscream, not at all. The chief reason I can identify them is through discussion of the toys.

I dunno if that's a problem as far as following the film goes. The various Transformers are already super distinct from each other such that names aren't, strictly speaking, necessary.

3 hours ago, Lexomatic said:

• Why did the Sector 7 vehicles have harpoons? They seemed surprised by Bee, but assuming they've got NBE 1/Project Iceman in the cellar, they're apparently prepared for the anytime-arrival of entities like Bee.

IIRC, the film wasn't always going to be a prologue and/or wasn't always going to be a reboot and/or whatever it has ended up being in regards to the Bayverse. For my part, I find it easiest to think of this movie as a reboot and just handwave away any and all discrepancies that stem from its troubled chronology.

[M'Kyuun]

In terms of this being a prologue to Bayverse, if I were Bee, I think I would have said f**k Sam & Co, I'm going back to Charlie- they were much better company.

I think the storytelling waters were muddied a bit by their trying to tie it to Bayverse, while simultaneously setting a completely different tone and adopting a more cohesive look for the TF characters. I think Knight did the best he could to put his stamp on it, and I think we clearly see what he really wanted to do in the opening scenes. But, in the end, I think he made an enjoyable live action TF movie (the first, IMHO), and set a more optimistic and apropos tone for future movies to follow. I vehemently hope Knight has more autonomy in the next film, and is able to sever ties with Bayverse altogether.

[Old_Nash]

BBB movie is a prequel not a reboot...

WHAt Bonaventura are smoking????

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-bumblebee-movie-producer-explains-how-the-film-is-100-a-prequel-and-not-a-reboot/42709/

[sh9000]

 

[tekering]

I have to assume Walmart has spent millions of dollars in licensing fees, production costs, CGI and airtime to distract us from realizing that ordering groceries online, only to physically drive to the store to pick them up, is an incredibly dumb idea.  

Still, nice to see 'Bee getting a prominent cameo!  

[kajnrig]

11 minutes ago, tekering said:

I have to assume Walmart has spent millions of dollars in licensing fees, production costs, CGI and airtime to distract us from realizing that ordering groceries online, only to physically drive to the store to pick them up, is an incredibly dumb idea.  

Eh, it's not inherently dumb. I can see it saving the customer time spent wandering through the store, getting lost. That said, if I'm ordering groceries, I sure as heck don't want someone else picking out my veggies and meats for me.

[mikeszekely]

2 hours ago, Old_Nash said:

BBB movie is a prequel not a reboot...

WHAt Bonaventura are smoking????

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-bumblebee-movie-producer-explains-how-the-film-is-100-a-prequel-and-not-a-reboot/42709/

Ok, so he can handwave away Optimus showing up at the end by saying he left and then came back with the others in the first Bay film... but how does he explain Bee fighting Nazis in The Last Knight?

[JB0]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

I have to assume Walmart has spent millions of dollars in licensing fees, production costs, CGI and airtime to distract us from realizing that ordering groceries online, only to physically drive to the store to pick them up, is an incredibly dumb idea.  

Still, nice to see 'Bee getting a prominent cameo!  

Well, he's a prominent Camero, it makes sense he'd get a prominent cameo.

[TangledThorns]

15 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Ok, so he can handwave away Optimus showing up at the end by saying he left and then came back with the others in the first Bay film... but how does he explain Bee fighting Nazis in The Last Knight?

They don't have to explain crap because they don't care. Ugh. 

[peter]

18 hours ago, Old_Nash said:

BBB movie is a prequel not a reboot...

WHAt Bonaventura are smoking????

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-bumblebee-movie-producer-explains-how-the-film-is-100-a-prequel-and-not-a-reboot/42709/

Lorenzo Di Bonventura, what a fukking tool.  I hope he has nothing to do with any subsequent films because it sounds like he doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about. 

[Dobber]

33 minutes ago, peter said:

Lorenzo Di Bonventura, what a fukking tool.  I hope he has nothing to do with any subsequent films because it sounds like he doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about. 

Agreed, not to mention the complete change in in how the characters looked Travis Knight even stated he couldn’t use the old designs on Cybertron because they would clash with the new aesthetic. Didn’t he say he also wanted to use Megs but ran out of money.

LDB sounds like he’s towing the company line to keep Bayformers sales from slipping. While it simultaneously makes me and possibly others incredibly trepidatious about future films now. Good job Lorenzo Di Bonventura 

Chris

[Lexomatic]

Is Bumblebee a prequel or a reboot? Both and neither. The term I've seen used is "stealth reboot" which means "hedging our bets". If it performs poorly and no further movies are green-lit, it will be counted as the sixth and final film, and a prequel to the other five. Conversely, if it does well, it will be taken as proof that audiences like this aesthetic and directorial style, and will be counted as the first film in a new sequence, like Maguire!Spider Man vs. Garfield!Spider Man. Everyone involved needs to smile for the press and be enthusiastic about future prospects, regardless of their personal artistic or financial opinions about the saga -- they're not going to go Rainier Wolfcastle and admit, "Zere vere problems vit the script from day vun."

Transformers is no stranger to dodgy continuity:

• Many of the features of G1's pilot, "More than Meets the Eye" (1984), were changed for the production series -- Autobots can't fly, their ship is not extracted from the mountain and refitted by grateful humanity for a return trip.
• Beast Wars (1996) was intended as a sequel to G1 -- except where the visuals don't match. The Ark has two tail fins instead of one, the Nemesis has a grinder instead of a pelican pouch, and neither ship had a name in 1984.
• Cybertron (2005) was meant as a sequel to Armada (2002) and Energon (2004) -- but only in the U.S., and the plot clearly contradicts earlier developments.
• Robots in Disguise (2015) claimed to be a sequel to Prime (2007) -- except Bumblebee doesn't bother to find any of his human friends/allies who might have the interest or ability to help with all those escaped Decepticon prisoners.

 

[captain america]

On 1/7/2019 at 2:57 PM, peter said:

Lorenzo Di Bonventura, what a fukking tool.  I hope he has nothing to do with any subsequent films because it sounds like he doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about. 

Understand that as a major figure in the franchise, he'd have to be diplomatic so as not to alienate the first 5 films and jeopardize whatever revenue Hasbro might still stand to extract from them. Diplomacy, like politics, is all about strategy. In the end, the movie is whatever you want it to be.

I think it wouldn't have been too hard to more closely follow the G1 arrival of Autobots/Decepticons to earth millions of years ago, and much cooler than what they ended up doing, but then again, I'm not in charge.

[peter]

41 minutes ago, captain america said:

I think it wouldn't have been too hard to more closely follow the G1 arrival of Autobots/Decepticons to earth millions of years ago, and much cooler than what they ended up doing, but then again, I'm not in charge.

That would have been pretty cool.  Would have been cool to see the Ark

 

 

[Thom]

3 hours ago, captain america said:

Understand that as a major figure in the franchise, he'd have to be diplomatic so as not to alienate the first 5 films and jeopardize whatever revenue Hasbro might still stand to extract from them. Diplomacy, like politics, is all about strategy. In the end, the movie is whatever you want it to be.

I think it wouldn't have been too hard to more closely follow the G1 arrival of Autobots/Decepticons to earth millions of years ago, and much cooler than what they ended up doing, but then again, I'm not in charge.

That's my dream! The choice to go so far from the source material was stupid.

[captain america]

4 hours ago, peter said:

That would have been pretty cool.  Would have been cool to see the Ark

 

 

The prime in that video looks even better than the way Prime looked in Bumblebee. I think they wasted a great opportunity.