Snake-Eyes - G.I. Joe Origins

[Roy Focker]

Reviews aren't good.

 

[Big s]

Honestly, I didn’t expect they would be. They took a classic character and then got rid of everything to do with that classic character and then put him in a generic ninja movie

[kalvasflam]

The problem is that this is a joke of an origin story.  GI Joe and Cobra shouldn’t even be in here.  They screwed the original interpretation.

I am fine with Snake talking, hopefully he isn’t jabbering away all the time.

[TangledThorns]

On 7/22/2021 at 11:33 AM, Roy Focker said:

Reviews aren't good.

 

Not surprised. The trailers were underwhelming IMHO. 

[505thAirborne]

 

[Knight26]

Based on that review, I think I will have to pass.  Why screw up his origin story so badly?  His OG origin can be updated to modern times easily enough.

[Roy Focker]

That review matches the others I've read.

[Kanedas Bike]

Expectations super low, feedback that seems to match those expectations but I'm still going. Because my EMAX ticket was only $3 with a promotion from my wireless carrier and Atom (ticket seller).

Going on Sunday so I'll come back to this thread and leave a one-emoji review lol

-b.

[Kanedas Bike]

Welp.

The Jeremy Jahns YouTube review posted above was pretty spot on.

Honestly this should have been Storm Shadow: Cobra Origins as he was a far more sympathetic character than Snake Eyes, who was an a-hole pretty much the entire movie.

Even then, the acting was good, the fight choreography was good, and most of the movie was fairly grounded - then the third act and all of a sudden everyone is a super hero.

Bottom line, I left the theatre thinking that Storm Shadow literally has every right to want Snake Eyes dead, and honestly he'd be 1000000000000% justified. 

Just...ugh.

-b.

[David Hingtgen]

I enjoyed it.  Basically----I honestly don't really care that it doesn't match Snake Eye's canon story.  I'm a Cobra/Storm Shadow fan.  This is by far the most fleshed-out live action Storm Shadow.  And we had ninja fights.  And The Baroness and Scarlett (disappointingly briefly for both though).  I was seeking entertainment loosely based on stuff I already liked, and that was met.  I wasn't looking for (nor expecting) 300 issues of the comics translated to the screen.    

It would have indeed been better as Storm Shadow: Cobra Origins.   

If you're a big "silent brooding honorable SE" fan, you might hate it.  If you simply like GI Joe and/or ninjas (and your fave character is anyone other than SE), go for it.  

[Kanedas Bike]

Yeah, I don't even know (or remember) Snake Eye's comic book origins, it was that as generic hero (who happened to be Snake Eyes) was written as a unlikable jerk.

And as stated above, if you like Storm Shadow, this really is the movie for you. That was a character in the movie that was truly well done and he came across as more of a protagonist, as the designated protagonist did.

-b.

[kajnrig]

The impression I've been getting from all the trailers is simply "PG-13 Ninja Assassin." Would that be accurate?

[Kanedas Bike]

2 hours ago, kajnrig said:

The impression I've been getting from all the trailers is simply "PG-13 Ninja Assassin." Would that be accurate?

Pretty much, however as I think about it and to be fair to the movie makers, in some ways that was by design. GI Joe and Cobra are left on the periphery on purpose which kind of works. But the story and the characters are all cookie-cutter which makes this so generic-looking and feeling.

The movie stays pretty grounded (which again, would have been okay had the story been stronger) until the last act and then BOOM invincibility plot armor and an infinity stone come out to play.

-b.

[Roy Focker]

Ouch.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/snake-eyes-box-office-flop-gi-joe-toy-movies-1235026986/

[CoryHolmes]

How are the fight scenes?  Much like Godzilla vs Kong, I'm not looking for a cinematic masterpiece but I'll be satisfied with halfway decent fights.

[Big s]

As far as I can remember, for his original origin he was a special ops soldier back in the Vietnam war that had an accident with explosives that messed up his face and vocal chords. He had plastic surgery but still had some scaring and couldn’t talk anymore.

 As far as the new one, he’s just the worst person ever.

 This movie suffers from being attached to an existing franchise. If this were a stand alone movie that removed everything about G.I. Joe, this would have been a good film. It’s kinda like how if Solo wasn’t about Solo or any other established characters, it would have been far more enjoyable. The Joe stuff is everything that doesn’t work in this movie. The action scenes are cheesy, but not bad and most of the training stuff is fun other than the weird snake stuff. Overall I’m surprised that I didn’t hate this blasphemous movie.

 

[Mog]

2 hours ago, Big s said:

As far as I can remember, for his original origin he was a special ops soldier back in the Vietnam war that had an accident with explosives that messed up his face and vocal chords. He had plastic surgery but still had some scaring and couldn’t talk anymore.

That's some of the key points, but Snake wasn't exactly special ops.

Technically, Snake and Storm Shadow were part of the same LRRP (Long-Range Reconnaissance Patrol) team back in 'Nam (along with Stalker, one of the OG GI Joe members).

Snake gets shot on patrol, but is saved by Storm and survives with no other injuries.

Then all the bad luck starts (Hence, his code name, Snake Eyes):

• His parents and sister are killed in a drunk driver accident, while driving to the airport to pick him up (just after coming home from 'Nam).
• After mourning their deaths, Storm Shadow invites Snake to train with Storm's ninja family, but then tragedy and death strike.
• One of their ninja masters is killed, and Snake Eyes believes Storm did it (Storm supposedly aiming for Snake Eyes but killing the master in the process).
• Gets his face burned and vocal chords cut while saving Scarlett from a crashing helicopter they were in.
• Though injured like frak after the copter crash, elects to continue with the mission and forego any medical treatment.

Now, I wouldn't expect a movie to follow all of these beats to a tee (or all the crazy links to Cobra with these tragedies). 

BUT I would hope a film would hit the "Good military dude who keeps getting bad breaks in life, but still keeps moving forward and completing the mission" that's absolutely CORE AND CENTRAL to Snake Eyes' character.

Oh well.

[Big s]

Even in the old cartoon we were introduced to him as the guy that got stuck behind the wall while a radioactive  gas flooded his escape route and he still finished the job by escaping the caves and a giant bear while glowing from the radiation. That’s the kind of character I wanted to see, instead of the a-hole we got in the movie.

[Gaijin]

He wasn't likeable as a protagonist in this film.  But Storm, Scarlett, and the Baroness were perfectly cast. I would watch sequels with them in it. They could have Snake lose his voice in some way and I think it would be okay. This film just was really weird in making Snake kinda unlikeable.

[TehPW]

On 7/27/2021 at 3:22 AM, Mog said:

That's some of the key points, but Snake wasn't exactly special ops.

Technically, Snake and Storm Shadow were part of the same LRRP (Long-Range Reconnaissance Patrol) team back in 'Nam (along with Stalker, one of the OG GI Joe members).

Snake gets shot on patrol, but is saved by Storm and survives with no other injuries.

Then all the bad luck starts (Hence, his code name, Snake Eyes):

• His parents and sister are killed in a drunk driver accident, while driving to the airport to pick him up (just after coming home from 'Nam).
• After mourning their deaths, Storm Shadow invites Snake to train with Storm's ninja family, but then tragedy and death strike.
• One of their ninja masters is killed, and Snake Eyes believes Storm did it (Storm supposedly aiming for Snake Eyes but killing the master in the process).
• Gets his face burned and vocal chords cut while saving Scarlett from a crashing helicopter they were in.
• Though injured like frak after the copter crash, elects to continue with the mission and forego any medical treatment.

Now, I wouldn't expect a movie to follow all of these beats to a tee (or all the crazy links to Cobra with these tragedies). 

BUT I would hope a film would hit the "Good military dude who keeps getting bad breaks in life, but still keeps moving forward and completing the mission" that's absolutely CORE AND CENTRAL to Snake Eyes' character.

Oh well.

I'm obviously NOT gonna see this but i have two initial thoughts on the direction this movie apparently goes.

1) They couldn't use the original Marvel Comics OG (in the same reason why the previous decade The Micronauts comic reboot couldn't use any storyline aspects from the 80's Marvel storyline: No legal access because of contract limits, etc.)

2) They chose the direction they did because of not wanting to annoy any countries that might be possible venues for this movie because of elements of the Viet Nam war used in the Marvel GI Joe storyline. Generally speaking, they went the path of least resistance to $$$

Edited July 29, 2021 by TehPW

[Big s]

The Vietnam thing was probably due to 80’s characters from all genres were somehow involved. From G.I. Joe to Rambo to the A-Team and even Magnum- PI. They probably wanted to modernize the character, but they oddly decided not to give him a military background at all.

[Mog]

5 hours ago, TehPW said:

I'm obviously NOT gonna see this but i have two initial thoughts on the direction this movie apparently goes.

1) They couldn't use the original Marvel Comics OG (in the same reason why the previous decade The Micronauts comic reboot couldn't use any storyline aspects from the 80's Marvel storyline: No legal access because of contract limits, etc.)

2) They chose the direction they did because of not wanting to annoy any countries that might be possible venues for this movie because of elements of the Viet Nam war used in the Marvel GI Joe storyline. Generally speaking, they went the path of least resistance to $$$

If true, these are both valid points.

But they could have made him part of some sort of peacekeeping force, and then have him just have a string of bad luck.

Again, the hero's journey is already laid out there.  You don't have to follow the comic book beats exactly.  But "ex-military guy who keeps getting hit with tragedies left and right BUT keeps getting back up" is a general enough template to develop your movie around.

I swear it's like these recent movies/shows allow the story to dictate how the characters will act, rather than the characters informing where the story should go.

[M'Kyuun]

On 7/29/2021 at 7:30 PM, Mog said:

If true, these are both valid points.

But they could have made him part of some sort of peacekeeping force, and then have him just have a string of bad luck.

Again, the hero's journey is already laid out there.  You don't have to follow the comic book beats exactly.  But "ex-military guy who keeps getting hit with tragedies left and right BUT keeps getting back up" is a general enough template to develop your movie around.

I swear it's like these recent movies/shows allow the story to dictate how the characters will act, rather than the characters informing where the story should go.

Well, I'm a lukewarm G.I. Joe fan from the 80's who watched the toon, but never read the comics or delved any deeper into the lore. But the general sense I've always had of Snake Eyes from the various toons over the years is that he's a martial arts master with a military background who can't speak, has extraordinary resolve, and a nigh unshakeable sense of moral uprightness. He's a good guy to the core who does whatever it takes to protect his teammates and see the mission through. That wasn't the direction they took with this iteration. Maybe they thought painting him in shades of grey would make him more compelling. I dunno. 

Anyway, I just sat back and enjoyed it for what it was. I'll agree with former comments that say Storm Shadow was really the star here, and they did a good job of showing a good guy turn sour. But as @Kanedas Bike said earlier, SS was totally justified for being angry. But given his last words before leaving the family estate, what follows seems counter to his parting statement.  Alas, the franchise must be served.

Spoiler

Perhaps I missed something, but it seemed a bit odd and unlikely for the potential next head of the family clan to go undercover himself in his Yakuza cousin's organization, the very same cousin with whom he is in competition to succeed the current matriarch of the clan. I guess they couldn't devise a better plot where the two would meet giving Snake Eyes an opportunity to save his life. 

So far as Snake's character being out of traditional character throughout most of the film, I consider Di Bonaventura is the same producer behind the live action Transformers films, and look how they butchered and reimagined all those characters, not just physically, but their personalities, or fractions thereof, that some had. So, for Snake Eyes to look more like a generic ninja film with a few GI Joe references makes total sense considering who's producing.  It is sad, though, that the animated shows seem to get the essence of GI Joe far, far better than any of the far better budgeted live action films have thus far. Money's no replacement for passion, though. Just like the Bumblebee Movie felt more like the Transformers that I grew up with than any of the Bay films.

[Knight26]

On 7/29/2021 at 1:40 PM, TehPW said:

I'm obviously NOT gonna see this but i have two initial thoughts on the direction this movie apparently goes.

1) They couldn't use the original Marvel Comics OG (in the same reason why the previous decade The Micronauts comic reboot couldn't use any storyline aspects from the 80's Marvel storyline: No legal access because of contract limits, etc.)

2) They chose the direction they did because of not wanting to annoy any countries that might be possible venues for this movie because of elements of the Viet Nam war used in the Marvel GI Joe storyline. Generally speaking, they went the path of least resistance to $$$

I can see the first maybe being the case.  Maybe Marvel/Hama wouldn't give up the origin story, as I do not think that the toys have ever (outside of those bundled with the comics) references the OG Snake Eye origin.  But, I also doubt that because of the close working relationship the two had in their partnership.

The second I have to disagree with.  Yes, they couldn't us the 'nam origin due to the modern setting, but sure could have used Iraq or Afghanistan as the backdrop for his origin without fear or upsetting anyone too much.  The location of the war where Snake and Tommy/Storm Shadow meet isn't central to his origin, what is, is the tragedy that surrounds SE's life (his injuries, loss of family, etc...).  Also placing the origin in Afghanistan, for instance, could have more easily allowed for a truncated origin, Snake Eyes could have lost his voice and suffered his burns there while saving Tommy.  His family's death could have happened at any point.  Updating the story to modern times could still have created a sympathetic character in SE, and a jealous Tommy as his scarred and mutilated friend rises through the ranks of the Arashikage super fast.  They could have even properly have dealt with the death of the Hard Master, making it look like Storm Shadow did it, but leaving clues that he didn't for follow up films.
 

[sqidd]

PG-13?

It can't possibly be good.

[Big s]

Did you really think a movie based on a toy would be more than pg-13

[mikeszekely]

Just came back from seeing this with a friend.  I'm not really a Joe fan, so I can't comment on the origin story, but overall I thought the fights used too many jump cuts, the plot was kind of predictable, and it lacked the campy charm of the first two.  And yet... somehow I was entertained.  Plus Baroness was super hot.  C-, would watch again on video with my wife.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Terrible worse than the SJW, mary sue, and feminazi cluster f**kery we were subjected to in Star Wars during recent years.

Snake-eyes action sequences were absolutely horrible and the two main lead actors were not believable whatsoever. Pacing and overall character developments were boring. Very little remained true to the original source material and the entire ninja clan initiation/trials was wasted. There was never a bond depicted between Snake and Storm Shadow. This movie had far more potential but was an abysmal failure.

[Roy Focker]

This topic has been locked.

Did this before with some Star Wars topics.  Hollywood is always tweaking your beloved childhood favorites.  Some changes make sense and others don't.  If any of these Sequels/Reboots are inferior products it is because of a number of questionable decisions.   Here (like with other fandoms) we'll always get some critics that will use some "woke based" argument.   These products are unsuccessful because they are bad in nearly every category.   It is not because they made some changes to make things more inclusive.  For those outside of fandoms it creates the appearance that fandoms are dominated by a bunch of intolerant people.  When critics here object to such changes it is nearly always included comments about things being "woke."  These comments tend to border on the political - something that isn't allowed.    When topics like this drift away from the subject itself to a discussions on society that border on intolerance and politics things get locked.