Bandai DX Chogokin 1/48 VF-1

[DewPoint]

At least 4! Maybe 6! 3 so you can display in each mode, 1 in GBP armor, 1 MISB, and 1 just in-case!

[Sanity is Optional]

• 3 for F/G/B clean
• 3 for F/G/B with strike packs
• 1 for GBP
• 1 for MISB
• 1 backup in case of defects

[DYRL VF-1S]

11 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

1 backup in case of defects

This is my strategy. And it paid off this last time.

[F360]

If at close to 100,000 yen.  It needs to be bigger than 1/48

maybe 1/35 with more detail , lights, perfect transformation,  launch arm hangar, missiles and crews .

similar to what could have been 

[sqidd]

32 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

• 3 for F/G/B clean
• 3 for F/G/B with strike packs
• 1 for GBP
• 1 for MISB
• 1 backup in case of defects

This guy has it figured out!^^^^^

[sqidd]

19 minutes ago, F360 said:

If at close to 100,000 yen.  It needs to be bigger than 1/48

maybe 1/35 with more detail , lights, perfect transformation,  launch arm hangar, missiles and crews .

similar to what could have been 

That would be about 21" at the top of the Strike Cannon (assuming S&S). 

If it was really detailed, with removable covers on a ton of stuff and S&S parts I'd go $1000 on that.

[DYRL VF-1S]

Speaking of backups, here’s my HS “freebie”. This will never be transformed but at least I can throw some supers on it and still looks good in fighter mode. 

[sqidd]

2 minutes ago, DYRL VF-1S said:

Speaking of backups, here’s my HS “freebie”. This will never be transformed but at least I can throw some supers on it and still looks good in fighter mode. 

Sounds like a good deal to me!

If you ever want to make $25 profit on that LMK.

[nightmareB4macross]

2 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

• 3 for F/G/B clean
• 3 for F/G/B with strike packs
• 1 for GBP
• 1 for MISB
• 1 backup in case of defects

Don’t forget the Super Pack configuration for all three modes.

[Lolicon]

6 hours ago, oshanmacross said:

So sorry about that, this did wonders for my Yamato 1/48 and Proto Garland when the plastic started having stress fails.

Thanks but I've already fixed it. Just a dab of super glue and put the two halves back together and she's as good as new!

4 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Hey Lolicon,

I forgot to credit you for these pictures you posted of your custom white painted landing gear on page 359 from this thread. 
 

When I searched picks this was the first set I found and noticed the slanted edge.

Oh, they were being used for education purposes, so it falls under Fair Use anyway. Not like you were reposting someone else's work and pretending it was yours. 

[nightmareB4macross]

Precisely.

So does anyone else have this on their copy or copies?

[seti88]

3 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

• 3 for F/G/B clean
• 3 for F/G/B with strike packs
• 1 for GBP
• 1 for MISB
• 1 backup in case of defects

You forgot abt the 4th mode.

semi-Gerwalk. Arms tucked, tails out. 

 

Basically, fighter with legs down. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by seti88

[DYRL VF-1S]

1 hour ago, sqidd said:

Sounds like a good deal to me!

If you ever want to make $25 profit on that LMK.

Haha! Yeah I won’t complain. And I haven’t been banned yet either. So win/win all things considered.

[nightmareB4macross]

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

You forgot abt the 4th mode.

semi-Gerwalk. Arms tucked, tails out. 

 

Basically, fighter with legs down. 

 

 

You’re right forgot that one.

But I totally forgot that I Eder to have a configurations for several modes more than three are needed of each. You need to have, include mid-Gerwalk mode:

• 4 for F/G/B/M clean
• 4 for F/G/B/M with strike packs
• 4 for F/G/B/M with Super Packs
• 1 for GBP
• for MISB
• 3 backup in case of defects
• 1 back up in case of defects for each armor configuration
• Repeat for DYRL and TV types of each

Yup, this hobby is expensive.

IIRC, Sephiroth had this kind on nailed down back in the days. 

[Big]

5 hours ago, F360 said:

If at close to 100,000 yen.  It needs to be bigger than 1/48

maybe 1/35 with more detail , lights, perfect transformation,  launch arm hangar, missiles and crews .

similar to what could have been 

I agree for the ultimate Valkyrie it would probably need a bigger scale.

But Bandai could have at least thrown a few gimmicks in there that were not seen on the Yamato ones. 

Instead they take steps back.

[sqidd]

4 hours ago, Big said:

 

Instead they take steps back.

I don't think that;'s fair. The Bandai quality and feel are much, much higher. The Bandai feels like a Porsche compared to the Yamato that feels like a Chevy.

[crackpot]

1 hour ago, sqidd said:

I don't think that;'s fair. The Bandai quality and feel are much, much higher. The Bandai feels like a Porsche compared to the Yamato that feels like a Chevy.

I think it is. Going to your Chevy and Porsche analogy, it's like Chevy released a car years ago with certain features that aren't necessary with driving a car but nice to have (lane departure warning, parking cameras, etc.) Years later, Porsche comes out with a car without those features that seem standard now. Sure material and buildwise, Porsche is levels above a Chevy but wouldn't you expect at least those features to be available especially for the premium one has to pay for? Same with Bandai. They took cues from the Yamato's design with no significant improvement, sold at a higher price, yet left out some of the nicer details that collectors have gotten used to. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by crackpot

[sqidd]

27 minutes ago, crackpot said:

I think it is. Going to your Chevy and Porsche analogy, it's like Chevy released a car years ago with certain features that aren't necessary with driving a car but nice to have (lane departure warning, parking cameras, etc.) Years later, Porsche comes out with a car without those features that seem standard now. Sure material and buildwise, Porsche is levels above a Chevy but wouldn't you expect at least those features to be available especially for the premium one has to pay for? Same with Bandai. They took cues from the Yamato's design with no significant improvement, sold at a higher price, yet left out some of the nicer details that collectors have gotten used to. 

A fair point.

I think what carries the most weight comes down to the individual consumer. I'm a designer/engineer/inventor. What turns me on is well executed and clean engineering (and of course aesthetics). I'm more inclined to like something that is engineered extremely well with minimal features than something with a lot of features and middle of the road engineering. To draw on the Porsche/Chevy analogy again I would rather have a bare bones Porsche 911 GT3 than a Chevy Corvette with "all the things". That's a personal preference thing. I can understand someone appreciating it from the other angle.

As far as the DX's go, I don't care one little bit about the hollow strike packs. But, I can understand how other people would. And If I was those people, it would drive be bonkers.

Are the DX's more $$ than the 1/48 Yamato stuff was? Today's dollar vs Yamato time period dollar? I don't know what Yamato stuff cost when it was released. I only have a vague idea of when.

[Lolicon]

Yamato is the Porsche with it's beautifully curved surfaces. Bandai's blocky fighter is the Chevy. 

[sqidd]

4 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Yamato is the Porsche with it's beautifully curved surfaces. Bandai's blocky fighter is the Chevy. 

I was going from a purely mechanical/feel/driving perspective.  You jump out of a Porsche GT3 and into a C7 Z06 Corvette (I have) it's amazing how they're SO different. The Porsche is a scalpel. The Vette is a precision hammer. 

I agree with your aesthetic analogy though. Refining the aesthetic analogy I think would be a Ferrari 458 (Yamato) vs a C8 Corvette (Bandai).

 

[Bahamutzyro]

14 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I was going from a purely mechanical/feel/driving perspective.  You jump out of a Porsche GT3 and into a C7 Z06 Corvette (I have) it's amazing how they're SO different. The Porsche is a scalpel. The Vette is a precision hammer. 

I agree with your aesthetic analogy though. Refining the aesthetic analogy I think would be a Ferrari 458 (Yamato) vs a C8 Corvette (Bandai).

 

Comparing a Chevy to a Porsche hilarious. 
no comparison. 
I own a few cars and I don’t care what Chevy try’s to do with the vette. It will never compare. They need to do a real vette n bring the price up level with the 911 turbo etc.

the problem is that American cars where always shabby floppy builds with poor reliability. Similar to Yamato vs Bandai.

bandais 1/48 feels of quality where the Yamato is flaky. It was good back then hen we didn’t have a choice but now it’s a crap show.

[Lolicon]

9 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I was going from a purely mechanical/feel/driving perspective.  You jump out of a Porsche GT3 and into a C7 Z06 Corvette (I have) it's amazing how they're SO different. The Porsche is a scalpel. The Vette is a precision hammer. 

I agree with your aesthetic analogy though. Refining the aesthetic analogy I think would be a Ferrari 458 (Yamato) vs a C8 Corvette (Bandai).

 

That's not a bad comparison.

Material-wise they're not really any different to me. They're still mostly plastic with some diecast content. It's not like Bandai used carbon nanotubes and a titanium swing bar or something.  

Bandai does wisely use diecast in some spots that might endure higher stresses (like the backpack hinge) to improve durability over the Yamato design. The extra thigh joint is a nice addition to the legs.

The shoulder mechanism is a wash for me. It's different, but not really an improvement. And it leaves an unsightly gap in fighter mode.

The tampo printing is nice, but like someone said earlier, it needs to be shrunk down 50%. Take that Corvette above and write "CHEVY" across the entire side in huge white letters and that's what Bandai's tampo is like.

Bandai even takes some steps back, like with the ridiculously tiny pilot, unpainted landing gear, no console detail (until the 1S), a swing bar that detaches if you look at it wrong, intake covers that often pop loose, and arms that are held in place in fighter mode by a two weeny little tabs and a lot of hope.

There isn't anything here Bandai couldn't have done at 1/60 scale.

As for the strike parts, they're either the same or even a step backwards from Yamato in all areas except the additional tampo printing.

[Lolicon]

6 minutes ago, Bahamutzyro said:

Comparing a Chevy to a Porsche hilarious. 
no comparison. 
I own a few cars and I don’t care what Chevy try’s to do with the vette. It will never compare. They need to do a real vette n bring the price up level with the 911 turbo etc.

the problem is that American cars where always shabby floppy builds with poor reliability. Similar to Yamato vs Bandai.

bandais 1/48 feels of quality where the Yamato is flaky. It was good back then hen we didn’t have a choice but now it’s a crap show.

We're only talking about exterior aesthetics with those images. Please read more carefully before getting set off. 

[Bahamutzyro]

50 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

We're only talking about exterior aesthetics with those images. Please read more carefully before getting set off. 

Ha ha never set off! I’m talking aesthetics. 
I definitely don’t think the mid engine vette is similar to any Ferrari lol

[DYRL VF-1S]

2 hours ago, sqidd said:

I'm more inclined to like something that is engineered extremely well with minimal features than something with a lot of features and middle of the road engineering.

 

1 hour ago, Bahamutzyro said:

bandais 1/48 feels of quality where the Yamato is flaky. It was good back then hen we didn’t have a choice but now it’s a crap show.

I'll jump in on the convo haha.  A lot of what is being discussed is splitting hairs.  Yamato had its problems too.  But there is no denying that Bandai  DX (1/48-ish) is a heavier Valk and therefore more stable  displaying  at 1/48.  Yammies  are  flaky and  light for sure.

There's a nostalgia for Yammies and that's  where  preference comes in.  I dig that.  Just like there is a  nostalgia for the Chunky Monkeys.

Regarding the  1/60, I believe Yamarcadia had the licensing for the SDFM and DYRL valks at that scale, so Bandai actually couldn't do that scale.   When it  is up, there is no reason Bandai can't go that route.  And that's where I think we'll see a revamp of the line again.

[seti88]

I am leaning towards bandai being the Lamborghini with the latest engineering and sexy looks vs yamcardia Ferrari with their curves and stylish proportions.

But to me every valk is a piece of art. Be it bandai or yamcardia. They each have their own look, features and history.

 

 

 

[lechuck]

Yamato 1/48 aesthetically pleasing... lol.

To work with the car analogy, a Fiat Multipla has inner engine details to show too, but when you close that bonnet it is still an ugly car.

So I will gladly have less inner details and take the "inferior" Bandai DX with the better proportions and articulation.

[HardlyNever]

I don't know much about toy production, but I feel like there is a reason we'll never see a larger-scale SoC-style VF-1, at least not from a big company like Bandai.  I'm probably letting my experience in web development color my opinion too much, but here's a simplified version of how I see this going down.  I present "Valkyrie's Fall: A three five act play."

Players: Executive (EX), Product Design Lead (PDL), Product Engineer (PE)

Act 1

EX: Ok, whats next in the pipeline for product ideas?

PDL:  We're thinking a Soul of Chogokin VF-1.  It's an iconic mech design that is still appreciated by fans today.  We've done well with less popular mechs, and I think this is an easy home-run.  We'll make the best VF-1 ever made.

PE: Yup, we've been looking forward to doing this for a while.  We've got a basic prototype already.  At this scale and price, we'll be able to incorporate gimmicks and features that no one else has been able to attempt in this classic design.

EX: Sounds great, lets get to work on it and see what you come up with.

Act 2

PDL:  Here's our first mock-up.  We're thinking around 1/35th scale, die-cast construction.  This will give us the heft we need to add in a lot of small features that can't be done in the smaller scales this design is usually done in.

PE: We've already incorporated a light-up visor, and we're working out how to keep it perfect transformation while leaving space for all the extra things we want to add in.

EX: Great, looks great.  Say, I was talking to 斉藤さん in accounting the other day, and he said there are actually a lot of VF-1 color schemes, and that we can use the same mold to make a bunch "different" toys, and those otaku will buy all of them!  Is that true?

PDL: Uhh... yes sir, that's true.  But the idea behind this particular design was that we were trying to make the "ultimate" VF-1.  This toy has been made a lot over the decades, but we wanted to do a single, definitive version for our SoC line.

EX: Sure, sure.  This will still be the best one ever.  But let's get rid of the die-cast.  It will cost too much and people won't buy more than one at that price-point.  We want want to be able to repaint this thing and sell it to the same sucker customer again and again, right?  That's where the money is.  Show me what you can do in ABS.

PE:  Ok...

Act 3

PDL: Ok, sir.  We've changed it to mostly plastic.  We still think we can do some things the customers have never seen before with the large size.  Here are some cool gimmicks we're thinking of that have never been done before.  We're also going to include all these accessories with the product.

PE: Yeah, we've got these little arms that come out of the big arms, and...

EX: Hmm... yeah.  Ya know, I was talking to that  斉藤さん again, and man, he knows a lot about Macross.  Why don't you guys know this stuff; isn't it your job to know this stuff?  Anyhow, he says there are a bunch of accessories that go with this VF-1 thing, and we could even sell them separately to customers, and they would buy multiples of each!  Can you believe that?  Is that true?

PD: Yes sir... that's technically true.  But that's all been done before.  Remember, we were making the "definitive" version of this mech with this particular design.  We wanted to include all those accessories with the base toy, like we do with most of our SoC products.

EX:  Sure, this will still be definitive, but we can't pass up all the extra cash.  Lets plan on having those accessories separate.  We'll sell them individually later.  Anyhow, I've got some puppies to go kick, it's looking good, we'll meet again later.

*PDL and PE stare at each other silently*

Act 4

PDL:  Ok, sir.  We've finished working on the accessories, but they will be sold separately. We still have some fun new features never done before with this toy, due to the increased size.  See, these intake covers are usually separate parts, but now they'll be able to...

EX: Looking good.  But I was thinking, at this size, some suckers customers won't really have the space for more than one.  Let's shrink it down some, that way more people can collect all of them!

PE: We could, but at a smaller scale, we'd have to get rid of some of these original gimmicks that die hard fans have always wanted.  I've been dying to make a VF-1 that does these things.

EX: But they're die-hard fans right?  So they'll buy it anyhow!  This is still going to be the best VF-1 thingy ever right?  Are you telling me this won't be the best VF-1 ever?  I thought you guys were good at your job?

PDL:  Yes, sir.  It would still probably be the best one ever, but we wanted to make a truly epic toy; ya, know.  Definitive; like we've been saying.  We won't be able to do that at a smaller size.

EX:  It will still be the best one ever.  Just shrink it down, we'll figure out the rest.

PDL, PE: Yes, sir.

Act 5

PDL:  Well, here it is.  We've made it 1/48 scale, like you asked.  We had to sacrifice a lot of the original things we wanted to do with this design, but it stills should be the best VF-1 ever.

EX:  Great, great.  Look, we got rid of most of the metal right? And this isn't even all that large anymore.  This really isn't an SoC figure anymore.  We have our DX Chogokin line for this kind of stuff.  Let's put it in there.  We'll be able to make a lot more of them that way.

PE:  But, sir.  We wanted this to be the ultimate VF-1.  If we do that, it's just another good one.

EX:  Yeah, yeah, but the best one ever? Right.  Sounds good.  Great job on the new DX Chogokin VF-1 design guys.  We'll make a ton of cash.

THE END

(PS this is what happens when I have too much time off from work).

[peter]

See??  The vertical lines in the chest intakes are there on their 1/35........

Where did they go on their 1/48? 

Yamato did them, but Bandai didn't.  Are they not line-art accurate?

[nightmareB4macross]

35 minutes ago, peter said:

See??  The vertical lines in the chest intakes are there on their 1/35........

Where did they go on their 1/48? 

Yamato did them, but Bandai didn't.  Are they not line-art accurate?

IIRC, the vertical lines are for DYRL. The TV style only have these little triangles. But neither has ever placed them on their valks.

Photo sourced from M3.

Edited December 23, 2019 by nightmareB4macross
.

[sqidd]

1 hour ago, HardlyNever said:

I don't know much about toy production, but I feel like there is a reason we'll never see a larger-scale SoC-style VF-1, at least not from a big company like Bandai.  I'm probably letting my experience in web development color my opinion too much, but here's a simplified version of how I see this going down.  I present "Valkyrie's Fall: A three five act play."

Players: Executive (EX), Product Design Lead (PDL), Product Engineer (PE)

Act 1

EX: Ok, whats next in the pipeline for product ideas?

PDL:  We're thinking a Soul of Chogokin VF-1.  It's an iconic mech design that is still appreciated by fans today.  We've done well with less popular mechs, and I think this is an easy home-run.  We'll make the best VF-1 ever made.

PE: Yup, we've been looking forward to doing this for a while.  We've got a basic prototype already.  At this scale and price, we'll be able to incorporate gimmicks and features that no one else has been able to attempt in this classic design.

EX: Sounds great, lets get to work on it and see what you come up with.

Act 2

PDL:  Here's our first mock-up.  We're thinking around 1/35th scale, die-cast construction.  This will give us the heft we need to add in a lot of small features that can't be done in the smaller scales this design is usually done in.

PE: We've already incorporated a light-up visor, and we're working out how to keep it perfect transformation while leaving space for all the extra things we want to add in.

EX: Great, looks great.  Say, I was talking to 斉藤さん in accounting the other day, and he said there are actually a lot of VF-1 color schemes, and that we can use the same mold to make a bunch "different" toys, and those otaku will buy all of them!  Is that true?

PDL: Uhh... yes sir, that's true.  But the idea behind this particular design was that we were trying to make the "ultimate" VF-1.  This toy has been made a lot over the decades, but we wanted to do a single, definitive version for our SoC line.

EX: Sure, sure.  This will still be the best one ever.  But let's get rid of the die-cast.  It will cost too much and people won't buy more than one at that price-point.  We want want to be able to repaint this thing and sell it to the same sucker customer again and again, right?  That's where the money is.  Show me what you can do in ABS.

PE:  Ok...

Act 3

PDL: Ok, sir.  We've changed it to mostly plastic.  We still think we can do some things the customers have never seen before with the large size.  Here are some cool gimmicks we're thinking of that have never been done before.  We're also going to include all these accessories with the product.

PE: Yeah, we've got these little arms that come out of the big arms, and...

EX: Hmm... yeah.  Ya know, I was talking to that  斉藤さん again, and man, he knows a lot about Macross.  Why don't you guys know this stuff; isn't it your job to know this stuff?  Anyhow, he says there are a bunch of accessories that go with this VF-1 thing, and we could even sell them separately to customers, and they would buy multiples of each!  Can you believe that?  Is that true?

PD: Yes sir... that's technically true.  But that's all been done before.  Remember, we were making the "definitive" version of this mech with this particular design.  We wanted to include all those accessories with the base toy, like we do with most of our SoC products.

EX:  Sure, this will still be definitive, but we can't pass up all the extra cash.  Lets plan on having those accessories separate.  We'll sell them individually later.  Anyhow, I've got some puppies to go kick, it's looking good, we'll meet again later.

*PDL and PE stare at each other silently*

Act 4

PDL:  Ok, sir.  We've finished working on the accessories, but they will be sold separately. We still have some fun new features never done before with this toy, due to the increased size.  See, these intake covers are usually separate parts, but now they'll be able to...

EX: Looking good.  But I was thinking, at this size, some suckers customers won't really have the space for more than one.  Let's shrink it down some, that way more people can collect all of them!

PE: We could, but at a smaller scale, we'd have to get rid of some of these original gimmicks that die hard fans have always wanted.  I've been dying to make a VF-1 that does these things.

EX: But they're die-hard fans right?  So they'll buy it anyhow!  This is still going to be the best VF-1 thingy ever right?  Are you telling me this won't be the best VF-1 ever?  I thought you guys were good at your job?

PDL:  Yes, sir.  It would still probably be the best one ever, but we wanted to make a truly epic toy; ya, know.  Definitive; like we've been saying.  We won't be able to do that at a smaller size.

EX:  It will still be the best one ever.  Just shrink it down, we'll figure out the rest.

PDL, PE: Yes, sir.

Act 5

PDL:  Well, here it is.  We've made it 1/48 scale, like you asked.  We had to sacrifice a lot of the original things we wanted to do with this design, but it stills should be the best VF-1 ever.

EX:  Great, great.  Look, we got rid of most of the metal right? And this isn't even all that large anymore.  This really isn't an SoC figure anymore.  We have our DX Chogokin line for this kind of stuff.  Let's put it in there.  We'll be able to make a lot more of them that way.

PE:  But, sir.  We wanted this to be the ultimate VF-1.  If we do that, it's just another good one.

EX:  Yeah, yeah, but the best one ever? Right.  Sounds good.  Great job on the new DX Chogokin VF-1 design guys.  We'll make a ton of cash.

THE END

(PS this is what happens when I have too much time off from work).

You may be right. Two point that could point to a SOC VF-1S being a choice they make though:

-The $1200 (or was it $1000?) Gundam Metal Structure sold out in minutes. People buy the crap out of multiple Metal Builds.

-My company does mostly Gucci high end short/limited run stuff. $3,000 price range. The two times I have come out with Super Gucci stuff in the $8,000-$12,000 range which frankly are not 2-4x better and the same size (that can't change) they sell. Do I sell less? Absolutely. Is my margin on those fewer units bigger? You bet! Would I do more super high end stuff if I had the time? Yep.

I'm happy to see that the Metal Structure did so well. Fingers crossed we see a Metal Structure VF-1S.

[peter]

1 hour ago, nightmareB4macross said:

IIRC, the vertical lines are for DYRL. The TV style only have these little triangles. But neither has ever placed them on their valks.

Photo sourced from M3.

Yeah, the DX 1J didn't have them and neither did Max, so I figured they might include them in the DYRL 1S, but they didn't

They also left out the little skull decal by the canopy.

 

[Ignacio Ocamica]

What are we comparing? 

The old 1/48 Yamato with the Bandai DX?

Or the new DX with the 1/60 ver 2 Yamato?

The old 1/48 and the 1/60 ver 2 were the true revolution, I see the 1/48 Bandai as an "evolution" of the 1/60 Yamato ver 2. 

The Bandai is the sum of: some side steps, some forward steps, but also some back steps.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

14 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Precisely.

So does anyone else have this on their copy or copies?

I have this problem on both sides of my VF-1S.

Less crooked (than in Lolicon's pics) but on both sides.

Don't think I would have noticed until mentioned.

[Saburo]